My New Favorite Anger at APS: XXL WL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we vote people into the county board who give a shit about education?

No, because ACDC essentially chooses the candidates for both SB and CB. And Arlington is so overwhelmingly "Democrat" that the ACDC's endorsee and nominee will win 99.5 times out of a hundred.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB is not some mystical place with elves and magic. If you are inclined to be angry and unhappy before you apply, you will continue to be angry and unhappy when you are there. If the size of WL is just the latest in a long string of issues that OP is mad at APS about, getting her child into HB would not solve OP's issues.

True, I will still be angry about what they are doing to WNL because I care about Arlington even if my kid gets to go to HBW. They are jeopardizing the entire school system, and with it all of our collective well-being and home values (and I say that because impact on taxes is only thing CB cares about).

Arlington County (with the overwhelming consent of its voters) has made the decision to pursue high-density development. They haven’t “abandoned” public education, but it’s not a priority. They can do this without penalty because the land is so valuable here for reasons that have nothing to do with the school system. If I were starting out today, I wouldn’t send my kids to APS, so I do feel for younger families. But nobody’s property values are going to tank.

I wish they would. It's becoming a burden for those of us with incomes below that of most in 22207.

Don’t you have the best schools in 22207???? And you’re burdened???? Take a look at what they have done to South Arlington and are doing to Central Arlington and get back to us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we vote people into the county board who give a shit about education?

No, because ACDC essentially chooses the candidates for both SB and CB. And Arlington is so overwhelmingly "Democrat" that the ACDC's endorsee and nominee will win 99.5 times out of a hundred.

Yes, ACDC controls the candidates for the County Board and the School Board which ensures an overall “Democratic” agenda is met. Education isn’t the top priority on the agenda. Equity and housing are primary. There’s no diversity of thought and the School Board answers to ACDC. It is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We got waitlisted with a end of tail number for HBW, so my kid is destined for XXL WL, with all 3000 unmanageable students (which the Superintendent admitted in his slide package last week, it was too big to effectively manage, good times).

I seriously want to stab a straw into a box of wine and squeeze box it like a pre-schooler. My kid already felt overwhelmed at Williamsburg with 800 kids, like no one really care what they did or even who they were. All her close friends moved away with the pandemic or went private, and she says there is so much more disruption now then she even saw in elementary school (she's in 8th).

Sure, I means not like its a bad school, but as an average bright student, I think she will be marginalized with no one looking out for her, no space for her to find activities she likes to do (apparently every club is swamped with duplicate people for every role) and likely never make the cut for any sport she likes (I guess she can't take up frisbee golf, which last I know was only played by drunk potheads).

XXL WL forever, cause you know we ain't never getting a 4th high school.

I’m sorry OP, but I think it will be ok. I’ve read most of this thread and I agree the real problems are going to surface in the next 5 or so years for the kids just entering WL at that point. Just be glad you’re going through now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^is that really true. I hear a lot about turnover and staffing issues and unexperienced teachers teaching advanced courses that are not in their background at all.

Also, the crowding effects so many different aspects of the school, from hallways to lunch room to sports and activities to attention from counselors and help during college application time.

I get trying to make the best of a rotten situation, but some people are really in denial. And, many of the people that I know that were happy have kids that have already graduated from college--or there now. The clogged pipe that is rumbling is about to burst in the next few years. The real problems haven't arrived yet. Take a look at the coming years. Next year's entering class is just the tip of the very large iceberg set to emerge.

Don’t expect ANY help. The counselors are beyond awful even now. I can’t imagine how bad it will be in a few years.

Public school counselors are not hand-holders in the college process. If you aren't going to get educated so you can provide direction or have a go-getter kid, you should look into private counseling.

While I agree that public school counselors are not hand-holders in the college application process, my 4th DC is a senior at WL and we have now gone through the process at WL 3 times. As a whole, the counseling office has an excellent system in place for explanations of the process, financial aid, deadlines, expectations of parents v. kids and Saturday morning help for students who need help applying to college. I have also been pleasantly surprised at individual counselor's availability to meet with parents and how well they knew most of my DCs. But if you're expecting the counselor to help strategize over SAT v. ACT, content of personal essays and spend hours helping your DC figure out where to apply, that is not going to happen in public school. It also did not happen at my one DC's excellent private HS.

You kind of missed the point. Your kids were all outside the population bubble. Each year starting with entering Freshmen, the number of students is exponentially rising. 200+ next year and so on. The biggest classes are not in MS yet.

Do you honestly think that APS will add 200 - 800 students to WL and not increase the staffing?

Believe it or not, the current population bubble is not particularly unique and your complaints aren't either. When my oldest first went to WL the school was already over capacity by a couple hundred students. When my second DC attended, significant reconfiguration of interior space took place to relieve the overcrowding. That relief lasted about a hot second. My current WL senior spent 3 years of ES and all of MS and HS in and out of trailer classrooms. Yes, there is a definite difference between a 2200 and 3000 student HS - I grant you that and that 2200 is preferable to 3000. But it wasn't that long ago that many in the community were up in arms about APS HSs increasing from 1800 to 2200 students and we all used the same litany of arguments: clubs too big to join, sports teams impossible to get a spot on, counselors who will not know our kids, etc. I was adamant that my current WL senior would have to go to private school; her graduating class is more than a 100 students larger than her brother's class/ Guess what, aside from COVID complaints, it has been more than fine. There are more clubs than ever to join, the vast majority of sports teams, even varsity, are extremely easy to make even if your kid is not athletic (I know - my DC is on 3 of them), the marching band would be thrilled to have another 20-40 members, sorry I don't know about theatre, and more staff has been hired.

Yes, there is a big difference between 2200 and 3000 and I think APS should build a comprehensive 4th HS but in the end it's what you and your kid make of the experience. Feel sorry for yourself and teach your kid to complain and they will have a miserable experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Do you honestly think that APS will add 200 - 800 students to WL and not increase the staffing?

Believe it or not, the current population bubble is not particularly unique and your complaints aren't either. When my oldest first went to WL the school was already over capacity by a couple hundred students. When my second DC attended, significant reconfiguration of interior space took place to relieve the overcrowding. That relief lasted about a hot second. My current WL senior spent 3 years of ES and all of MS and HS in and out of trailer classrooms. Yes, there is a definite difference between a 2200 and 3000 student HS - I grant you that and that 2200 is preferable to 3000. But it wasn't that long ago that many in the community were up in arms about APS HSs increasing from 1800 to 2200 students and we all used the same litany of arguments: clubs too big to join, sports teams impossible to get a spot on, counselors who will not know our kids, etc. I was adamant that my current WL senior would have to go to private school; her graduating class is more than a 100 students larger than her brother's class/ Guess what, aside from COVID complaints, it has been more than fine. There are more clubs than ever to join, the vast majority of sports teams, even varsity, are extremely easy to make even if your kid is not athletic (I know - my DC is on 3 of them), the marching band would be thrilled to have another 20-40 members, sorry I don't know about theatre, and more staff has been hired.

Yes, there is a big difference between 2200 and 3000 and I think APS should build a comprehensive 4th HS but in the end it's what you and your kid make of the experience. Feel sorry for yourself and teach your kid to complain and they will have a miserable experience.

I have one who graduated last year and a current junior. Totally agree. I definitely can sympathize with OP, I thought WL seemed huge and impersonal and I was really worried about DS going there. He wouldn't consider a smaller school so we didn't do the lottery. Both my kids have ADHD. Neither did the IB program although they took a couple IB classes + some AP classes. I have consistently found the teachers and our counselor to be very responsive. Easy to schedule a conference when we had some issues. And, when my DD was really struggling with DL last year I was surprised that the school actually offered to do the full evaluation for her ADHD diagnosis. They both worked hard, learned a lot, made friends. DS didn't do much with ECs but that's really on him for not being a joiner. DD is happy in music and a couple clubs. Her biggest gripe about the switch to DL in freshman year was that she'd just started to make a bunch of new friends before it all shut down and so had to start fresh in 11th (she really only stayed connected to a small group of BFFs during DL) but this year has been good socially too.

The only thing I've found difficult is that the school has a large group of very high achieving kids and the kids put a lot of pressure on themselves to take very demanding class loads plus heavy EC involvement. This seemed to roll right off DS who is always happy to do his own thing but DD has found that hard to deal with and we've had a lot of conversations about focusing on your strengths, run your own race, etc.

I absolute agree the district has to figure out the 4th high school. But, this is where we are and if you have an 8th grader now any 4th HS solution is not going to be ready for your student.

[Anonymous]

Here you go:
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/FY-2022-Adopted-Planning-Factors_final.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here you go:
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/FY-2022-Adopted-Planning-Factors_final.pdf

So they will have fewer Assistant Principals per student body, despite the fact that such a large crowded school will likely have more discipline needs.

Students AP
450 1
900 2
1350 3
1500 3.5
2000 4
2500 4
3000 4


Only 2 librarians for 3000 students, versus HB which gets 1 librarian per 700. Only 1 gifted teacher.

Thanks this clarifies a lot of how they are failing to plan for this large school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check out page 5

HB has “1” class over 27 students.

Other HS each have close to 100

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2021-22-Class-Size-Report.pdf

But at least we have equity?

Is that true?! If so, that’s total bulls—t. APS teacher with 30 in every class but one.

Are you kidding? Of course it’s true. HBW spins a yarn they can’t be over crowded because of their model.

What is the largest class sizes at WL? All they report is greater than 27.

Of course it's BS. There isn't a single course being taught with anything close to 100 students in the classroom unless it's chorus, band, or orchestra. Even band is taught in multiple periods. The only time 100 students might be in a "class" together is during marching band rehearsals - which occur outside the school day.

Ah an HBW booster who can’t be bothered to read or think critically.

The number I quoted was the NUMBER of classes GREATER than 27. HBW has 1 class. WL has about 80 classes greater than 27.

I wasn’t saying any class was 100 students, and that is so patently ridiculous I can’t believe you even responded without first wondering “maybe I misread that”

I see you haven’t come back to apologize for your mistake


Could anyone answer the ACTUAL largest size of a class in WL, is it 32?

Per the post on the prior page, you can see the classes that average 27+. It's not that many. That 2020-21 report doesn't show the largest sizes at WL that year but with those averages, most under 30, I doubt the largest is more than 32.

FWIW, Yorktown has more classes with averages over 27 with several averaging 30+ so you are better off at W-L.

They left electives like P.E. and cooking classes off. Because they overcrowd them- is it any easier to manage kids in those settings? Safer? I don’t think so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check out page 5

HB has “1” class over 27 students.

Other HS each have close to 100

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/2021-22-Class-Size-Report.pdf

But at least we have equity?

Is that true?! If so, that’s total bulls—t. APS teacher with 30 in every class but one.

Are you kidding? Of course it’s true. HBW spins a yarn they can’t be over crowded because of their model.

What is the largest class sizes at WL? All they report is greater than 27.

Of course it's BS. There isn't a single course being taught with anything close to 100 students in the classroom unless it's chorus, band, or orchestra. Even band is taught in multiple periods. The only time 100 students might be in a "class" together is during marching band rehearsals - which occur outside the school day.

Ah an HBW booster who can’t be bothered to read or think critically.

The number I quoted was the NUMBER of classes GREATER than 27. HBW has 1 class. WL has about 80 classes greater than 27.

I wasn’t saying any class was 100 students, and that is so patently ridiculous I can’t believe you even responded without first wondering “maybe I misread that”

I see you haven’t come back to apologize for your mistake


Could anyone answer the ACTUAL largest size of a class in WL, is it 32?

Per the post on the prior page, you can see the classes that average 27+. It's not that many. That 2020-21 report doesn't show the largest sizes at WL that year but with those averages, most under 30, I doubt the largest is more than 32.

FWIW, Yorktown has more classes with averages over 27 with several averaging 30+ so you are better off at W-L.

They left electives like P.E. and cooking classes off. Because they overcrowd them- is it any easier to manage kids in those settings? Safer? I don’t think so.

So they used to report actual class sizes for all classes, but now they limited to Jess core classes and only in this weird metric of larger than 27?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here you go:
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/FY-2022-Adopted-Planning-Factors_final.pdf

So they will have fewer Assistant Principals per student body, despite the fact that such a large crowded school will likely have more discipline needs.

Students AP
450 1
900 2
1350 3
1500 3.5
2000 4
2500 4
3000 4


Only 2 librarians for 3000 students, versus HB which gets 1 librarian per 700. Only 1 gifted teacher.

Thanks this clarifies a lot of how they are failing to plan for this large school.

If you are going to complain, at least complain about something worthwhile. I love librarians but I'd bet anything that the average HS student has about 10 minutes of interaction with their school librarian a year, if that. And a lot of WL students walk one block and use the Central Library instead of the school library since it has such better resources and space. I am surprised there is even one gifted teacher at WL. With all the differentiation in class levels (intensified, AP, DE, IB), there really is not much need for a gifted teacher. I say that as a parent of a recent WL graduate who was designated as gifted in a couple subjects. Perhaps the future assistant principal situation will be an issue but I am not the type to dwell on problems that do not yet exist. I get the sense that you just want to be miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here you go:
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/FY-2022-Adopted-Planning-Factors_final.pdf

So they will have fewer Assistant Principals per student body, despite the fact that such a large crowded school will likely have more discipline needs.

Students AP
450 1
900 2
1350 3
1500 3.5
2000 4
2500 4
3000 4


Only 2 librarians for 3000 students, versus HB which gets 1 librarian per 700. Only 1 gifted teacher.

Thanks this clarifies a lot of how they are failing to plan for this large school.

If you are going to complain, at least complain about something worthwhile. I love librarians but I'd bet anything that the average HS student has about 10 minutes of interaction with their school librarian a year, if that. And a lot of WL students walk one block and use the Central Library instead of the school library since it has such better resources and space. I am surprised there is even one gifted teacher at WL. With all the differentiation in class levels (intensified, AP, DE, IB), there really is not much need for a gifted teacher. I say that as a parent of a recent WL graduate who was designated as gifted in a couple subjects. Perhaps the future assistant principal situation will be an issue but I am not the type to dwell on problems that do not yet exist. I get the sense that you just want to be miserable.

That you think that is the extent of a librarians job speaks volumes to your lack of understanding of why short staffing multiple positions at what will be the largest school is something we should plan for rather than wait for “problems” to exist. But your kids are out of the system, so you really don’t care I suppose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here you go:
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/FY-2022-Adopted-Planning-Factors_final.pdf

So they will have fewer Assistant Principals per student body, despite the fact that such a large crowded school will likely have more discipline needs.

Students AP
450 1
900 2
1350 3
1500 3.5
2000 4
2500 4
3000 4


Only 2 librarians for 3000 students, versus HB which gets 1 librarian per 700. Only 1 gifted teacher.

Thanks this clarifies a lot of how they are failing to plan for this large school.

If you are going to complain, at least complain about something worthwhile. I love librarians but I'd bet anything that the average HS student has about 10 minutes of interaction with their school librarian a year, if that. And a lot of WL students walk one block and use the Central Library instead of the school library since it has such better resources and space. I am surprised there is even one gifted teacher at WL. With all the differentiation in class levels (intensified, AP, DE, IB), there really is not much need for a gifted teacher. I say that as a parent of a recent WL graduate who was designated as gifted in a couple subjects. Perhaps the future assistant principal situation will be an issue but I am not the type to dwell on problems that do not yet exist. I get the sense that you just want to be miserable.

That you think that is the extent of a librarians job speaks volumes to your lack of understanding of why short staffing multiple positions at what will be the largest school is something we should plan for rather than wait for “problems” to exist. But your kids are out of the system, so you really don’t care I suppose.

I work at a big law firm that 10 years ago had a library that took up probably 20% of the firm’s office space and employed 2 librarians FT and an assistant. Today almost everything is online, our library is smaller than the women’s bathroom and unfortunately the people in charge let the librarians go. They new library space in the Ed Center will be all digital. Have you seen the existing library at WL? Have you seen how close by the Central
Library is to WL? Like it or not (and I don’t) libraries are changing and with that is the need and role for librarians. And not sure why you assume “my kids are out of the system” just bc I have a HS graduate. They’re not. I’m just choosing what to get upset at APS about and the number of gifted teachers and librarians at WL in another couple years is not at the top of my list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here you go:
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/FY-2022-Adopted-Planning-Factors_final.pdf

So they will have fewer Assistant Principals per student body, despite the fact that such a large crowded school will likely have more discipline needs.

Students AP
450 1
900 2
1350 3
1500 3.5
2000 4
2500 4
3000 4


Only 2 librarians for 3000 students, versus HB which gets 1 librarian per 700. Only 1 gifted teacher.

Thanks this clarifies a lot of how they are failing to plan for this large school.

If you are going to complain, at least complain about something worthwhile. I love librarians but I'd bet anything that the average HS student has about 10 minutes of interaction with their school librarian a year, if that. And a lot of WL students walk one block and use the Central Library instead of the school library since it has such better resources and space. I am surprised there is even one gifted teacher at WL. With all the differentiation in class levels (intensified, AP, DE, IB), there really is not much need for a gifted teacher. I say that as a parent of a recent WL graduate who was designated as gifted in a couple subjects. Perhaps the future assistant principal situation will be an issue but I am not the type to dwell on problems that do not yet exist. I get the sense that you just want to be miserable.

That you think that is the extent of a librarians job speaks volumes to your lack of understanding of why short staffing multiple positions at what will be the largest school is something we should plan for rather than wait for “problems” to exist. But your kids are out of the system, so you really don’t care I suppose.

I work at a big law firm that 10 years ago had a library that took up probably 20% of the firm’s office space and employed 2 librarians FT and an assistant. Today almost everything is online, our library is smaller than the women’s bathroom and unfortunately the people in charge let the librarians go. They new library space in the Ed Center will be all digital. Have you seen the existing library at WL? Have you seen how close by the Central
Library is to WL? Like it or not (and I don’t) libraries are changing and with that is the need and role for librarians. And not sure why you assume “my kids are out of the system” just bc I have a HS graduate. They’re not. I’m just choosing what to get upset at APS about and the number of gifted teachers and librarians at WL in another couple years is not at the top of my list.

Ohhhh, yeah Big Law Firms librarians are just like public school librarians... doubling down on showing you clueless. At least you make lots of money for corp interests so you'll be able to bail out your kids when their lackluster high school education scuttles their college and career outcomes. Not all of us have money to just not worry if our kids are shortchanged in the education department.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here you go:
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/FY-2022-Adopted-Planning-Factors_final.pdf

So they will have fewer Assistant Principals per student body, despite the fact that such a large crowded school will likely have more discipline needs.

Students AP
450 1
900 2
1350 3
1500 3.5
2000 4
2500 4
3000 4


Only 2 librarians for 3000 students, versus HB which gets 1 librarian per 700. Only 1 gifted teacher.

Thanks this clarifies a lot of how they are failing to plan for this large school.

If you are going to complain, at least complain about something worthwhile. I love librarians but I'd bet anything that the average HS student has about 10 minutes of interaction with their school librarian a year, if that. And a lot of WL students walk one block and use the Central Library instead of the school library since it has such better resources and space. I am surprised there is even one gifted teacher at WL. With all the differentiation in class levels (intensified, AP, DE, IB), there really is not much need for a gifted teacher. I say that as a parent of a recent WL graduate who was designated as gifted in a couple subjects. Perhaps the future assistant principal situation will be an issue but I am not the type to dwell on problems that do not yet exist. I get the sense that you just want to be miserable.

That you think that is the extent of a librarians job speaks volumes to your lack of understanding of why short staffing multiple positions at what will be the largest school is something we should plan for rather than wait for “problems” to exist. But your kids are out of the system, so you really don’t care I suppose.

I work at a big law firm that 10 years ago had a library that took up probably 20% of the firm’s office space and employed 2 librarians FT and an assistant. Today almost everything is online, our library is smaller than the women’s bathroom and unfortunately the people in charge let the librarians go. They new library space in the Ed Center will be all digital. Have you seen the existing library at WL? Have you seen how close by the Central
Library is to WL? Like it or not (and I don’t) libraries are changing and with that is the need and role for librarians. And not sure why you assume “my kids are out of the system” just bc I have a HS graduate. They’re not. I’m just choosing what to get upset at APS about and the number of gifted teachers and librarians at WL in another couple years is not at the top of my list.

Ohhhh, yeah Big Law Firms librarians are just like public school librarians... doubling down on showing you clueless. At least you make lots of money for corp interests so you'll be able to bail out your kids when their lackluster high school education scuttles their college and career outcomes. Not all of us have money to just not worry if our kids are shortchanged in the education department.

Just a taste. You just can't let high schools have access to raw internet and say: "GO" There's curration, training, it allocation, training of teachers, it goes on and on.

FYI, they don't have card catalogs anymore either.

https://www.ascd.org/el/articles/the-school-librarian-your-ultimate-digital-resource