CRT clubs in schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That's the entire point - to start a discussion. To say that status quo isn't OK.

If that's the entire point, then it's just a kind of verbal masturbation. The point should be to improve on the status quo. And to do that, you can't just point to problems with the status quo, you have to propose actions that will cause an improvement upon the status quo. To do that, you have to articulate what the future will look like, how it will be better than what we have now, and how the proposed actions will cause that improvement.

Yes, you are correct. I guess after the last few years I've lowered my expectations. Seems like just getting everyone to acknowledge there is an issue with status quo would be progress at this point.

Of course some people are using it for personal gain like everything else in this world.
But it’s a sad day when people of good faith allow bad actors to keep us from moving forward. There will always be an excuse to say “what’s the point? Why bother?”
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think saying that "we just want you to acknowledge the issue" makes people more wary than proposing a concrete change would. Because people don't trust that this is or will be the only request. "Acknowledging the problem" feels like signing a blank check because there's an expectation that, after the acknowledgment, there will be a request for something more tangible -- otherwise what's the point?

Yup. It's tough to have a conversation about anything when people are so distrustful and aren't even open to acknowledging issues. Some people just DGAF about others.

There is some distance between "distrustful" and "DGAF." Like, I think there are serious issues with structural inequality caused by racism (not to mention racism itself). But sometimes I don't entirely trust the motivations of people who raise racism and structural inequality as issues. With some people, it feels like they can be using those issues for personal gain.

[Anonymous]

Of course some people are using it for personal gain like everything else in this world.
But it’s a sad day when people of good faith allow bad actors to keep us from moving forward. There will always be an excuse to say “what’s the point? Why bother?”

Agree.

That's why I think anti-racist clubs would good thing. Get the ball rolling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Of course some people are using it for personal gain like everything else in this world.
But it’s a sad day when people of good faith allow bad actors to keep us from moving forward. There will always be an excuse to say “what’s the point? Why bother?”

Agree.

That's why I think anti-racist clubs would good thing. Get the ball rolling.

Phase One: Acknowledge the Problem
Phase Two: ???
Phase Three: Profit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Of course some people are using it for personal gain like everything else in this world.
But it’s a sad day when people of good faith allow bad actors to keep us from moving forward. There will always be an excuse to say “what’s the point? Why bother?”

Agree.

That's why I think anti-racist clubs would good thing. Get the ball rolling.

Phase One: Acknowledge the Problem
Phase Two: ???
Phase Three: Profit.

Yes school clubs are a HUGE source of profit. I think you should invest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Of course some people are using it for personal gain like everything else in this world.
But it’s a sad day when people of good faith allow bad actors to keep us from moving forward. There will always be an excuse to say “what’s the point? Why bother?”

Agree.

That's why I think anti-racist clubs would good thing. Get the ball rolling.

Phase One: Acknowledge the Problem
Phase Two: ???
Phase Three: Profit.

Yes school clubs are a HUGE source of profit. I think you should invest.

It's a South Park reference -- the "Underpants Gnome" episode. The point is not really that anti-racists are profiting. More that they have no plan to get from Phase One to Phase Three. We'll talk a lot and "acknowledge the problem." Then, I dunno, stuff will happen. Then the effects of racism will be reduced to tolerable levels or whatever the end goal is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Of course some people are using it for personal gain like everything else in this world.
But it’s a sad day when people of good faith allow bad actors to keep us from moving forward. There will always be an excuse to say “what’s the point? Why bother?”

Agree.

That's why I think anti-racist clubs would good thing. Get the ball rolling.

Phase One: Acknowledge the Problem
Phase Two: ???
Phase Three: Profit.

Yes school clubs are a HUGE source of profit. I think you should invest.

It's a South Park reference -- the "Underpants Gnome" episode. The point is not really that anti-racists are profiting. More that they have no plan to get from Phase One to Phase Three. We'll talk a lot and "acknowledge the problem." Then, I dunno, stuff will happen. Then the effects of racism will be reduced to tolerable levels or whatever the end goal is.

So because acknowledging the problem will not produce concrete action, let's not acknowledge the problem? But let's also not acknowledge the problem because it might lead to actions we don't like?

Look, it's ok to say that we don't care about the problem and leave it at that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So because acknowledging the problem will not produce concrete action, let's not acknowledge the problem? But let's also not acknowledge the problem because it might lead to actions we don't like?

Look, it's ok to say that we don't care about the problem and leave it at that.

Problem acknowledged. Good work everyone. We did it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So because acknowledging the problem will not produce concrete action, let's not acknowledge the problem? But let's also not acknowledge the problem because it might lead to actions we don't like?

Look, it's ok to say that we don't care about the problem and leave it at that.

Problem acknowledged. Good work everyone. We did it!

Really? Lots of Youngkin voters would tend to disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So because acknowledging the problem will not produce concrete action, let's not acknowledge the problem? But let's also not acknowledge the problem because it might lead to actions we don't like?

Look, it's ok to say that we don't care about the problem and leave it at that.

Problem acknowledged. Good work everyone. We did it!

Really? Lots of Youngkin voters would tend to disagree.

Ask them, "is racism still a problem in the United States?" and I'll bet most of them would agree that it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So because acknowledging the problem will not produce concrete action, let's not acknowledge the problem? But let's also not acknowledge the problem because it might lead to actions we don't like?

Look, it's ok to say that we don't care about the problem and leave it at that.

Problem acknowledged. Good work everyone. We did it!

Really? Lots of Youngkin voters would tend to disagree.

Ask them, "is racism still a problem in the United States?" and I'll bet most of them would agree that it is.

Good question - I just asked if they think it's a problem in VA.

[Anonymous]

This thread is proving one thing for sure: just how pointless these conversations are.

Next, let’s make a CRT club so middle schoolers can have these conversations as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: I think if your daughter is interested in this topic it is well worth having a club for discussion. My daughter set up a club to encourage middle school kids to discuss general political issues when she was in high school. It was a great lesson in how to talk to adults (she had to get permission from both HS and MS principals, find a faculty sponsor, get permission to advertise the club, etc.) and then organize regular meetings. It was a real learning experience and she has maintained contact with a number of the club participants for years.

I won’t comment in any depth about CRT itself, but if you can’t see how institutional racism has major negative impacts on all of society, you are fooling yourselves. STEM is not the answer to every problem society faces. And on a lighter note, humanities majors are perfectly capable of getting lucrative jobs.

While in high school, your daughter set up a club to get middle schoolers to talk about politics? That’s beyond weird. Why couldn’t she have an extra curricular club with her own peers. And politics of all things? I’m doubtful you’d find even one middle schooler wanting to take part in it. And the principals agreed? Why would they? I’m calling troll on this.

If true, you’d be the most bizarre mother daughter pair I’ve encountered.

Why does this seem odd to you? It was a small school district with one middle school and one high school. We as her parents had no involvement whatsoever…she and a friend did everything. Kids today are pretty interested in politics as they see it has direct and often negative impact on their lives. Many of them aren’t impressed with either party; at this point it’s hard to argue with them.

[Anonymous]

Is your DD white? I ask because a white counselor wanted to offer a "safe place" for kids to talk about race at my DS's school and it was a huge turn off and made black students especially feel more alienated. The whole white savior or white social justice warrior thing makes some roll their eyes. If she wants people to join and feel comfortable, I would make sure she collaborates with a diverse group of friends to welcome others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So because acknowledging the problem will not produce concrete action, let's not acknowledge the problem? But let's also not acknowledge the problem because it might lead to actions we don't like?

Look, it's ok to say that we don't care about the problem and leave it at that.

Problem acknowledged. Good work everyone. We did it!

Really? Lots of Youngkin voters would tend to disagree.

Ask them, "is racism still a problem in the United States?" and I'll bet most of them would agree that it is.

And then they would say that white people are the victim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is your DD white? I ask because a white counselor wanted to offer a "safe place" for kids to talk about race at my DS's school and it was a huge turn off and made black students especially feel more alienated. The whole white savior or white social justice warrior thing makes some roll their eyes. If she wants people to join and feel comfortable, I would make sure she collaborates with a diverse group of friends to welcome others.

That’s a fair point here. And it fits my experience with these sorts of groups clubs in the workplace, including.gov (federal).