The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Former DC resident (2002-2021) here. I lived in DC when my nearest grocery store was a sketchy Safeway, and left DC when there was a WF and TJ's nearby. I've seen it on the rise, and I saw it on the decline in the years before I left (rising crime even before the pandemic, social unrest, filth, etc).

For those of you property owners on the defensive, don't forget that DC was a very bad place to live circa 1970-2000. It can return to those days if given the chance. No reason it couldn't, especially with a wacky City Council.

For those of you dismissing the lady who relocated her family due to the social unrest, don't forget that it was people like her who came into DC around 2010 or so, which in turn encouraged the restaurants, shops, etc. People like that lady probably wouldn't have lived in DC even when I began living there, but things were changing and they were coming. Those restaurants and Whole Foods wouldn't have been around had the big earners not come in the first place. If the $$ leaves, the stores leave. It's that simple.

My family saw it on the South Side of Chicago; I've seen it in DC. Things change- don't count on anything staying the same.

The difference between now and 1970 is that the country has a deficit of housing of around 6 million units. DC alone has a deficit of housing in the tens of thousands, probably close to 100K units.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/07/us-housing-shortage-will-last-for-years-to-come-taylor-morrison-ceo.html

It's going to take 2+ generations for us to get anywhere close to meeting demand, even as birth rates decline. I'm not worried about DC, it will still be a haven for young childless professional who pay taxes and don't use any services.

If anything, the families moving out of DC are doing EXACTLY what DC wants: pay taxes while young & childless, then leave when your kids become a drain on the city's tax coffers.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't assume childless high earners are going to shut up and accept living in a city in decline. Eventually you get sick of having your packages stolen all the time, having a local gov that is unresponsive and works against your safety interests (Charles Allen), having a uniquely horrible USPS problems in DC proper, having homeless encampments everywhere, seeing drugged out zombies loitering near your library, fearing that your car wheels are going to come off overnight, etc. You don't even realize how this all weighs you down until you have a few months away from it all.

Let's see how it all shakes out over the next couple years. Telework is here to stay. I don't know how that would NOT create an impact on the downtown long term. There's less incentive to put up with the above nonsense when you can commute 1-2 days a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read every single reply, but one issue is traffic. I work downtown and most of my colleagues do want to be back in person at least half-time. But we don't *have* to be back in person. And right now the traffic into DC is really lousy because the DC government is more concerned with bike lanes and giving NWDC residents free street parking than in winning back office workers.

As long as I have to sit in a nightmare of 2 lanes on Conn Ave to get home at night, why should I bother? I can just meet colleagues for lunch when we want to have informal opportunities to interact. Some degree of personal flexibility on telework is now the norm for a lot of people, including many more USG offices than was previously the case. So if DC wants to ensure businesses thrive downtown, they'll have to make it worth our while. Revert to pre-Covid commuter traffic (including re-opening Beach Drive and the 4-lane rush hour switch on Conn Ave) and you'll get more of us back in the office and spending money at DC restaurants and shops.

DC resident here. We don't care what you think. You don't even pay DC taxes -- you don't own a home here and DC can't impose a commuter tax. You're a drain on our resources, not a net gain, and we don't care if you or your stinking car ever come back.

Fine by me. But perhaps the shops and restaurants that are dependent on office workers might like to see us come back? And your neighbors might want to have more viable businesses in the city. But hey, why not make all of NWDC into an upper middle class gated community - that's a really vibrant and exciting future vision for DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't assume childless high earners are going to shut up and accept living in a city in decline. Eventually you get sick of having your packages stolen all the time, having a local gov that is unresponsive and works against your safety interests (Charles Allen), having a uniquely horrible USPS problems in DC proper, having homeless encampments everywhere, seeing drugged out zombies loitering near your library, fearing that your car wheels are going to come off overnight, etc. You don't even realize how this all weighs you down until you have a few months away from it all.

Let's see how it all shakes out over the next couple years. Telework is here to stay. I don't know how that would NOT create an impact on the downtown long term. There's less incentive to put up with the above nonsense when you can commute 1-2 days a week.

Sorry, but these singles are bored stiff when they get out to the 'burbs or the sticks. It's one thing to spend a month at the beach in the summer.....but it's A LOT more isolating to spend the year there. The young & childless crave socialization and that doesn't happen in a meaningful way outside the cities.

DC, NYC, LA, Boston, Chicago, etc has ALWAYS had homeless, drugged out mental cases, and petty theft. It's a part of city life, even if unsavory and undesired. These complaints have been on Popville for the last 15 years.

As we say: "Welcome to the city, transplant."

The young and childless will keep coming here. Those with means will insulate themselves in nice parts of NW DC, MoCo, and NoVA. All your complaints have been apart of city living since.....forever.

[Anonymous]

"All your complaints have been apart of city living since.....forever."

Sure, but there is always a tipping point. Don't know where it is- perhaps we're reaching it. As I wrote before, don't assume that everything stays the same or improves. Sometimes they don't. There were wealthy people and childless people in 1970-2000. That doesn't mean they gravitated to the city because "city life!"

Let's see how it goes over the next few years. Time to watch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't assume childless high earners are going to shut up and accept living in a city in decline. Eventually you get sick of having your packages stolen all the time, having a local gov that is unresponsive and works against your safety interests (Charles Allen), having a uniquely horrible USPS problems in DC proper, having homeless encampments everywhere, seeing drugged out zombies loitering near your library, fearing that your car wheels are going to come off overnight, etc. You don't even realize how this all weighs you down until you have a few months away from it all.

Let's see how it all shakes out over the next couple years. Telework is here to stay. I don't know how that would NOT create an impact on the downtown long term. There's less incentive to put up with the above nonsense when you can commute 1-2 days a week.

Sorry, but these singles are bored stiff when they get out to the 'burbs or the sticks. It's one thing to spend a month at the beach in the summer.....but it's A LOT more isolating to spend the year there. The young & childless crave socialization and that doesn't happen in a meaningful way outside the cities.

DC, NYC, LA, Boston, Chicago, etc has ALWAYS had homeless, drugged out mental cases, and petty theft. It's a part of city life, even if unsavory and undesired. These complaints have been on Popville for the last 15 years.

As we say: "Welcome to the city, transplant."

The young and childless will keep coming here. Those with means will insulate themselves in nice parts of NW DC, MoCo, and NoVA. All your complaints have been apart of city living since.....forever.

They’ll keep coming but DC needs to grab a larger share of transplants to the region to replace commuters. I’m not sure how they do that if a shorter commute is no longer an advantage. Singles also like density which brings restaurants and other venues—like in the Navy Yard and Wharf. The rest of DC should be upzoned to allow similar development and add more residents.

[Anonymous]

I might be the only one, but as a long-time resident (grew up here in the 80's), I think this "hit" (even accepting the premise of the article) would not necessarily be a bad thing.

The development of DC has been far from uniformly positive; "density" is overrated. Metro Center/ Farragut has always sucked--used to be dangerous and crappy then became bland and soulless (and remarkably, for a long period of time, managed to be all of those adjectives simultaneously). The commute in (even from other parts of DC, I'm in NE) is life-draining, and it was always inherently a bad transportation scenario when a massive percentage of your workforce all has to commute in/out of 1-2 sq. miles of offices twice a day. I welcome a bit of "hollowing out" and think both a much more decentralized distribution of work/commercial spaces and a more creative use of downtown would ultimately be a boon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't assume childless high earners are going to shut up and accept living in a city in decline. Eventually you get sick of having your packages stolen all the time, having a local gov that is unresponsive and works against your safety interests (Charles Allen), having a uniquely horrible USPS problems in DC proper, having homeless encampments everywhere, seeing drugged out zombies loitering near your library, fearing that your car wheels are going to come off overnight, etc. You don't even realize how this all weighs you down until you have a few months away from it all.

Let's see how it all shakes out over the next couple years. Telework is here to stay. I don't know how that would NOT create an impact on the downtown long term. There's less incentive to put up with the above nonsense when you can commute 1-2 days a week.

Do you live in DC? Because I do. And what you are describing does not, in any way, relate to my experience of this city. None of it.

I'm sorry living here didn't work out for you. But I love it here. I like my USPS delivery person especially. I bought her some doughnuts during lockdown and now she goes out of her way to be helpful. She picks up my outgoing packages for me, which is helpful since I run a small business.

Since our neighborhood has had some crazy Maryland drivers racing through and causing accidents, we got a traffic camera near us and my kids are in less danger crossing the street (and our car is less likely to be hit.)

Given the crazy driving our ANC is facilitating a conversation about traffic calming measures with the city.

I've had good experiences living in my residential neighborhood. We don't have homeless people or zombies wandering down our Northeast DC block. I feel for you if you were injured in a zombie attack. That must have been scary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"All your complaints have been apart of city living since.....forever."

Sure, but there is always a tipping point. Don't know where it is- perhaps we're reaching it. As I wrote before, don't assume that everything stays the same or improves. Sometimes they don't. There were wealthy people and childless people in 1970-2000. That doesn't mean they gravitated to the city because "city life!"

Let's see how it goes over the next few years. Time to watch.

There's no tipping point when the District, the wider region, and the nation face a multi-generational housing shortage. White flight happened in the 1950s-60s because there was surplus land to build on that was immediately adjacent and convenient to cities. The houses were constructed cheaply and quickly. Those conditions do not exist in 2021 - the suburbs are already dense, commutes are already long, labor in the trades is in short supply, and upzoning in the suburbs is not a fast building process. In short, there's not many places to go if your plan is to "flee" DC.

You're stuck with other problems once you get out of the District: expensive housing, long commutes, etc. The only other option is to take your winnings and move to a lower COL area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I might be the only one, but as a long-time resident (grew up here in the 80's), I think this "hit" (even accepting the premise of the article) would not necessarily be a bad thing.

The development of DC has been far from uniformly positive; "density" is overrated. Metro Center/ Farragut has always sucked--used to be dangerous and crappy then became bland and soulless (and remarkably, for a long period of time, managed to be all of those adjectives simultaneously). The commute in (even from other parts of DC, I'm in NE) is life-draining, and it was always inherently a bad transportation scenario when a massive percentage of your workforce all has to commute in/out of 1-2 sq. miles of offices twice a day. I welcome a bit of "hollowing out" and think both a much more decentralized distribution of work/commercial spaces and a more creative use of downtown would ultimately be a boon.

I agree with you to an extent. I'd love to see more condos in downtown DC. And I'd hate to lose the restaurants. I remember when the main restaurants in the region were in Bethesda but they were mediocre. I like that we're a food destination. If we could keep downtown lively with more condos and apartments, that would be great. But more play spaces are needed too. That's become quite clear during the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

It's sad that I'd actually thought that DCUM would offer some useful perspectives on the article, like it used to in the early years. Unfortunately, this thread is full of drivel and vitriol, like most these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read every single reply, but one issue is traffic. I work downtown and most of my colleagues do want to be back in person at least half-time. But we don't *have* to be back in person. And right now the traffic into DC is really lousy because the DC government is more concerned with bike lanes and giving NWDC residents free street parking than in winning back office workers.

As long as I have to sit in a nightmare of 2 lanes on Conn Ave to get home at night, why should I bother? I can just meet colleagues for lunch when we want to have informal opportunities to interact. Some degree of personal flexibility on telework is now the norm for a lot of people, including many more USG offices than was previously the case. So if DC wants to ensure businesses thrive downtown, they'll have to make it worth our while. Revert to pre-Covid commuter traffic (including re-opening Beach Drive and the 4-lane rush hour switch on Conn Ave) and you'll get more of us back in the office and spending money at DC restaurants and shops.

DC resident here. We don't care what you think. You don't even pay DC taxes -- you don't own a home here and DC can't impose a commuter tax. You're a drain on our resources, not a net gain, and we don't care if you or your stinking car ever come back.

You're the perfect combination of a stubborn refusal to listen to any opposing viewpoints, and utmost certainty of your own.

I'm surprised you're not a Trump voter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's sad that I'd actually thought that DCUM would offer some useful perspectives on the article, like it used to in the early years. Unfortunately, this thread is full of drivel and vitriol, like most these days.

There are 1-2 posters on this thread who don't want to listen to any opposing viewpoint. When people bring up the quality of life issues that have gotten noticeably worse during the pandemic, they scoff and act smug.

But, what the last couple of generations have shown us is that cities can reach tipping points pretty quickly, if things like crime, homelessness, and bad schools spiral out of control. And, people now have a lot of options as to where they can live and get the "urban" experience in the region. DC is competing for residents with all of the neighboring jurisdictions. And the government and business community is nowhere near as blase about it as some of the fools on this thread. They know the District is facing some hard problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't assume childless high earners are going to shut up and accept living in a city in decline. Eventually you get sick of having your packages stolen all the time, having a local gov that is unresponsive and works against your safety interests (Charles Allen), having a uniquely horrible USPS problems in DC proper, having homeless encampments everywhere, seeing drugged out zombies loitering near your library, fearing that your car wheels are going to come off overnight, etc. You don't even realize how this all weighs you down until you have a few months away from it all.

Let's see how it all shakes out over the next couple years. Telework is here to stay. I don't know how that would NOT create an impact on the downtown long term. There's less incentive to put up with the above nonsense when you can commute 1-2 days a week.

Sorry, but these singles are bored stiff when they get out to the 'burbs or the sticks. It's one thing to spend a month at the beach in the summer.....but it's A LOT more isolating to spend the year there. The young & childless crave socialization and that doesn't happen in a meaningful way outside the cities.

DC, NYC, LA, Boston, Chicago, etc has ALWAYS had homeless, drugged out mental cases, and petty theft. It's a part of city life, even if unsavory and undesired. These complaints have been on Popville for the last 15 years.

As we say: "Welcome to the city, transplant."

The young and childless will keep coming here. Those with means will insulate themselves in nice parts of NW DC, MoCo, and NoVA. All your complaints have been apart of city living since.....forever.

Yep, and people smart enough to remain childless are also smart enough to realize that the incredibly minor inconvenience of the occasional missing package and the infinitesimally small statistical likelihood of being a victim of violent crime as a relatively wealthy professional are peanuts compared to the actual, real, daily downsides of the suburbs.

Only the most myopic and hysterical residents are going to seriously think "You know what seems better than spending 5 minutes requesting a refund from Amazon twice a year? Exiling myself somewhere to spend hours a week in my car, far from nightlife and culture, so that I can occupy a giant house that I don't need and will have to waste even more time cleaning and maintaining."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read every single reply, but one issue is traffic. I work downtown and most of my colleagues do want to be back in person at least half-time. But we don't *have* to be back in person. And right now the traffic into DC is really lousy because the DC government is more concerned with bike lanes and giving NWDC residents free street parking than in winning back office workers.

As long as I have to sit in a nightmare of 2 lanes on Conn Ave to get home at night, why should I bother? I can just meet colleagues for lunch when we want to have informal opportunities to interact. Some degree of personal flexibility on telework is now the norm for a lot of people, including many more USG offices than was previously the case. So if DC wants to ensure businesses thrive downtown, they'll have to make it worth our while. Revert to pre-Covid commuter traffic (including re-opening Beach Drive and the 4-lane rush hour switch on Conn Ave) and you'll get more of us back in the office and spending money at DC restaurants and shops.

DC resident here. We don't care what you think. You don't even pay DC taxes -- you don't own a home here and DC can't impose a commuter tax. You're a drain on our resources, not a net gain, and we don't care if you or your stinking car ever come back.

You're the perfect combination of a stubborn refusal to listen to any opposing viewpoints, and utmost certainty of your own.

I'm surprised you're not a Trump voter.

"Is my wasteful, car-based lifestyle out of touch?"

"No, it's the city that I don't live in and don't pay taxes to that doesn't want to subsidize my personal convenience that's wrong."