The Enriched Literacy Curriculum

[Anonymous]

My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

I would ask your school how it is determined. People who don't qualify for the pool can still be moved into ELC--the school looks at more factors. But it's done individually on a school-by-school basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would ask your school how it is determined. People who don't qualify for the pool can still be moved into ELC--the school looks at more factors. But it's done individually on a school-by-school basis.

OP here. Thank you. Yes, I will ask his teacher, but I want to educate myself a little so I can ask right questions. I am thinking of waiting to talk to his teacher until my son can self-report his spring MAP-R test score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

Where did you find this information?

You know that the requirement is 96th for low-FARMS schools, and also that your daughter's 95th was downgraded to 83rd? Please share your sources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would ask your school how it is determined. People who don't qualify for the pool can still be moved into ELC--the school looks at more factors. But it's done individually on a school-by-school basis.

OP here. Thank you. Yes, I will ask his teacher, but I want to educate myself a little so I can ask right questions. I am thinking of waiting to talk to his teacher until my son can self-report his spring MAP-R test score.

OP, I'm a NP and he doesn't need to self-report-- the teacher(s) have all that information already. Unless you meant you thought it would be based on spring MAP scores specifically? I don't think it's that strict.

It's my understanding that they fill out the ELC classes with kids like your son (probably) who score well and read above grade level but just didn't qualify for the pool, for whatever reason. It could be local norming, or it could be grades or something else. Did he get an A in reading and also an A in either social studies or writing? In the 2nd quarter? Because I believe those were hard prerequisites. If he doesn't have a 504/IEP, FARMS or ESOL and lots of kids in his cohort did, and still had high scores, he might also not have been in the pool, but probably would be in the ELC at his school.

My kid has a friend like this, and I assume she'll be in the ELC class. She scored well on the MAP-R, reads well above grade level, etc. but got a couple of Bs as she was out a lot that quarter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

MCPS publishes this data. The difference was a few percentage points and even the differences between schools was not that significant. Again this is public record. I know it may not be what you want to hear but those are the facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would ask your school how it is determined. People who don't qualify for the pool can still be moved into ELC--the school looks at more factors. But it's done individually on a school-by-school basis.

OP here. Thank you. Yes, I will ask his teacher, but I want to educate myself a little so I can ask right questions. I am thinking of waiting to talk to his teacher until my son can self-report his spring MAP-R test score.

OP, I'm a NP and he doesn't need to self-report-- the teacher(s) have all that information already. Unless you meant you thought it would be based on spring MAP scores specifically? I don't think it's that strict.

It's my understanding that they fill out the ELC classes with kids like your son (probably) who score well and read above grade level but just didn't qualify for the pool, for whatever reason. It could be local norming, or it could be grades or something else. Did he get an A in reading and also an A in either social studies or writing? In the 2nd quarter? Because I believe those were hard prerequisites. If he doesn't have a 504/IEP, FARMS or ESOL and lots of kids in his cohort did, and still had high scores, he might also not have been in the pool, but probably would be in the ELC at his school.

My kid has a friend like this, and I assume she'll be in the ELC class. She scored well on the MAP-R, reads well above grade level, etc. but got a couple of Bs as she was out a lot that quarter.

OP here. He gets straight As. He doesn't have a 504/IEP, FARMS or ESOL. I want to approach his teacher with concrete evidence that he should be in the ELC. I think the reason his winter MAP-R went down in the percentile was because he was recovering from being sick. So I want to know his spring MAP-R score to make my case. (If his spring MAP-R is still not good, I will accept that my son may not belong to the ELC.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

Where did you find this information?

You know that the requirement is 96th for low-FARMS schools, and also that your daughter's 95th was downgraded to 83rd? Please share your sources.

I’m not the PP, but I am hearing this exact info for the cut off too. Coming from DCCAPS. Also hearing there were 5 tiers of local norm cohorts. So if you were in a school with very low FARMS the scores really did get adjusted significantly with local norming.

OP, the office of AEI will centrally recommend which kids should get ELC. Schools will get a list. Then principals will have leeway to add in other students who have data that is near the cut off or who have strong spring data. Some principals are more flexible about giving kids a chance, others are more rigid in using the central office recommendation. But your child’s scores are likely strong enough to make a case/request with your principal even if your child doesn’t get on the list from central office. No one knows what criteria or cut offs they will use bc ELC is relatively new and their process this year is different from past years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

Where did you find this information?

You know that the requirement is 96th for low-FARMS schools, and also that your daughter's 95th was downgraded to 83rd? Please share your sources.

I’m not the PP, but I am hearing this exact info for the cut off too. Coming from DCCAPS. Also hearing there were 5 tiers of local norm cohorts. So if you were in a school with very low FARMS the scores really did get adjusted significantly with local norming.

OP, the office of AEI will centrally recommend which kids should get ELC. Schools will get a list. Then principals will have leeway to add in other students who have data that is near the cut off or who have strong spring data. Some principals are more flexible about giving kids a chance, others are more rigid in using the central office recommendation. But your child’s scores are likely strong enough to make a case/request with your principal even if your child doesn’t get on the list from central office. No one knows what criteria or cut offs they will use bc ELC is relatively new and their process this year is different from past years.

If a 97/98/99 percentile student is in a very low FARMS school without the ELA, and didn't get selected for the CES, doesn't that student get very bored and feel unchallenged with reading class? Does anybody know what happens with these kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

MCPS publishes this data. The difference was a few percentage points and even the differences between schools was not that significant. Again this is public record. I know it may not be what you want to hear but those are the facts.

No, you're wrong. Either you're looking at the wrong data and coming up with the wrong conclusions or you don't understand how MCPS created locally normed scores for the lowest FARMS schools. I encourage you to call the Division of Consortia Choice and Application Program Services at 240-740-2540 and ask them yourself. They will walk you through how they locally normed scores at the lowest FARMS schools. They're quite transparent and helpful.

When locally norming students, they made up a pool of schools with similar FARMS rates and then looked at what MAP-R score among students at those schools was at the 85th percentile of students at those schools. For the lowest FARMS schools, that top 15% number was a MAP-R raw score that's in the 96th percentile nationwide. Meaning that, to be in the 85th percentile at these specific schools, a student needed a score that was at or above the 96th percentile nationwide.

Sure, the MCPS district-wide MAP-R Norm Grade Level Mean is typically just a few points higher than the national Norm Grade Level Mean. But when MCPS grouped together the highest performing schools for purposes of local norming, the delta was much larger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would ask your school how it is determined. People who don't qualify for the pool can still be moved into ELC--the school looks at more factors. But it's done individually on a school-by-school basis.

OP here. Thank you. Yes, I will ask his teacher, but I want to educate myself a little so I can ask right questions. I am thinking of waiting to talk to his teacher until my son can self-report his spring MAP-R test score.

OP, I'm a NP and he doesn't need to self-report-- the teacher(s) have all that information already. Unless you meant you thought it would be based on spring MAP scores specifically? I don't think it's that strict.

It's my understanding that they fill out the ELC classes with kids like your son (probably) who score well and read above grade level but just didn't qualify for the pool, for whatever reason. It could be local norming, or it could be grades or something else. Did he get an A in reading and also an A in either social studies or writing? In the 2nd quarter? Because I believe those were hard prerequisites. If he doesn't have a 504/IEP, FARMS or ESOL and lots of kids in his cohort did, and still had high scores, he might also not have been in the pool, but probably would be in the ELC at his school.

My kid has a friend like this, and I assume she'll be in the ELC class. She scored well on the MAP-R, reads well above grade level, etc. but got a couple of Bs as she was out a lot that quarter.

OP here. He gets straight As. He doesn't have a 504/IEP, FARMS or ESOL. I want to approach his teacher with concrete evidence that he should be in the ELC. I think the reason his winter MAP-R went down in the percentile was because he was recovering from being sick. So I want to know his spring MAP-R score to make my case. (If his spring MAP-R is still not good, I will accept that my son may not belong to the ELC.)

Thanks, that makes sense. I'm not sure how much influence his current teacher will have (though maybe the teacher makes recommendations to whomever decides?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

Where did you find this information?

You know that the requirement is 96th for low-FARMS schools, and also that your daughter's 95th was downgraded to 83rd? Please share your sources.

I’m not the PP, but I am hearing this exact info for the cut off too. Coming from DCCAPS. Also hearing there were 5 tiers of local norm cohorts. So if you were in a school with very low FARMS the scores really did get adjusted significantly with local norming.

OP, the office of AEI will centrally recommend which kids should get ELC. Schools will get a list. Then principals will have leeway to add in other students who have data that is near the cut off or who have strong spring data. Some principals are more flexible about giving kids a chance, others are more rigid in using the central office recommendation. But your child’s scores are likely strong enough to make a case/request with your principal even if your child doesn’t get on the list from central office. No one knows what criteria or cut offs they will use bc ELC is relatively new and their process this year is different from past years.

If a 97/98/99 percentile student is in a very low FARMS school without the ELA, and didn't get selected for the CES, doesn't that student get very bored and feel unchallenged with reading class? Does anybody know what happens with these kids?

Yeah it’s a problem, although they probably won’t be the only ones in their school who didn’t win the lottery. A 97/98/99 in a high FARMS school also doesn’t necessarily win the lottery either, and likely has fewer academically similar peers. This is why the mccpta gifted Ed committee is advocating heavily to roll out ELC to as many schools as possible so these children can be appropriately challenged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

Where did you find this information?

You know that the requirement is 96th for low-FARMS schools, and also that your daughter's 95th was downgraded to 83rd? Please share your sources.

I’m not the PP, but I am hearing this exact info for the cut off too. Coming from DCCAPS. Also hearing there were 5 tiers of local norm cohorts. So if you were in a school with very low FARMS the scores really did get adjusted significantly with local norming.

OP, the office of AEI will centrally recommend which kids should get ELC. Schools will get a list. Then principals will have leeway to add in other students who have data that is near the cut off or who have strong spring data. Some principals are more flexible about giving kids a chance, others are more rigid in using the central office recommendation. But your child’s scores are likely strong enough to make a case/request with your principal even if your child doesn’t get on the list from central office. No one knows what criteria or cut offs they will use bc ELC is relatively new and their process this year is different from past years.

If a 97/98/99 percentile student is in a very low FARMS school without the ELA, and didn't get selected for the CES, doesn't that student get very bored and feel unchallenged with reading class? Does anybody know what happens with these kids?

Yeah it’s a problem, although they probably won’t be the only ones in their school who didn’t win the lottery. A 97/98/99 in a high FARMS school also doesn’t necessarily win the lottery either, and likely has fewer academically similar peers. This is why the mccpta gifted Ed committee is advocating heavily to roll out ELC to as many schools as possible so these children can be appropriately challenged.

Agree with the lottery process it's far more likely that an outlier would be left out than. in the past so you aren't alone.