The Enriched Literacy Curriculum

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

Where did you find this information?

You know that the requirement is 96th for low-FARMS schools, and also that your daughter's 95th was downgraded to 83rd? Please share your sources.

I’m not the PP, but I am hearing this exact info for the cut off too. Coming from DCCAPS. Also hearing there were 5 tiers of local norm cohorts. So if you were in a school with very low FARMS the scores really did get adjusted significantly with local norming.

OP, the office of AEI will centrally recommend which kids should get ELC. Schools will get a list. Then principals will have leeway to add in other students who have data that is near the cut off or who have strong spring data. Some principals are more flexible about giving kids a chance, others are more rigid in using the central office recommendation. But your child’s scores are likely strong enough to make a case/request with your principal even if your child doesn’t get on the list from central office. No one knows what criteria or cut offs they will use bc ELC is relatively new and their process this year is different from past years.

If a 97/98/99 percentile student is in a very low FARMS school without the ELA, and didn't get selected for the CES, doesn't that student get very bored and feel unchallenged with reading class? Does anybody know what happens with these kids?

Yeah it’s a problem, although they probably won’t be the only ones in their school who didn’t win the lottery. A 97/98/99 in a high FARMS school also doesn’t necessarily win the lottery either, and likely has fewer academically similar peers. This is why the mccpta gifted Ed committee is advocating heavily to roll out ELC to as many schools as possible so these children can be appropriately challenged.

Agree with the lottery process it's far more likely that an outlier would be left out than. in the past so you aren't alone.

Hopefully MCPS recognizes that and expands the ELC to a lot more schools for next year. I keep hearing that MCPS is expanding it and will be announcing the schools that will get it next year "soon" but still haven't seen any announcement. Does anyone have any idea when we'll learn about the new schools receiving the ELC next year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

MCPS publishes this data. The difference was a few percentage points and even the differences between schools was not that significant. Again this is public record. I know it may not be what you want to hear but those are the facts.

Ya, I've seen this too from the county MAP averages vs national on the docs in ParentVue (2-3 points) and the number of high-achievers identified at various schools that was published a few years back. I think someone even reposted that here a week or two ago. TLDR many schools throughout the county had a similar numbers of high-achievers but some people feel very threatened by this realization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

MCPS publishes this data. The difference was a few percentage points and even the differences between schools was not that significant. Again this is public record. I know it may not be what you want to hear but those are the facts.

Ya, I've seen this too from the county MAP averages vs national on the docs in ParentVue (2-3 points) and the number of high-achievers identified at various schools that was published a few years back. I think someone even reposted that here a week or two ago. TLDR many schools throughout the county had a similar numbers of high-achievers but some people feel very threatened by this realization.

yes, they tell you you're wrong because they feel very threatened...or they just called MCPS and spent 20 minutes on the phone with the office that designed the local norming process for purposes of the CES lottery this year and heard the facts directly from them that are specifically related to what we're talking about here, rather than trying to piece together publicly available data, some of which you admit is data published years ago about "high achievers" that was randomly posted on DCUM a couple weeks ago

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

Where did you find this information?

You know that the requirement is 96th for low-FARMS schools, and also that your daughter's 95th was downgraded to 83rd? Please share your sources.

I’m not the PP, but I am hearing this exact info for the cut off too. Coming from DCCAPS. Also hearing there were 5 tiers of local norm cohorts. So if you were in a school with very low FARMS the scores really did get adjusted significantly with local norming.

OP, the office of AEI will centrally recommend which kids should get ELC. Schools will get a list. Then principals will have leeway to add in other students who have data that is near the cut off or who have strong spring data. Some principals are more flexible about giving kids a chance, others are more rigid in using the central office recommendation. But your child’s scores are likely strong enough to make a case/request with your principal even if your child doesn’t get on the list from central office. No one knows what criteria or cut offs they will use bc ELC is relatively new and their process this year is different from past years.

To the 2 parents who discussed the cut-off with DCCAPS and/or AEI. Did they tell you the FARMS rate distribution for the 5 tiers? I would assume the top tier of 96%ile cut-off was the less than 5% tier. It's not many schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

MCPS publishes this data. The difference was a few percentage points and even the differences between schools was not that significant. Again this is public record. I know it may not be what you want to hear but those are the facts.

No, you're wrong. Either you're looking at the wrong data and coming up with the wrong conclusions or you don't understand how MCPS created locally normed scores for the lowest FARMS schools. I encourage you to call the Division of Consortia Choice and Application Program Services at 240-740-2540 and ask them yourself. They will walk you through how they locally normed scores at the lowest FARMS schools. They're quite transparent and helpful.

When locally norming students, they made up a pool of schools with similar FARMS rates and then looked at what MAP-R score among students at those schools was at the 85th percentile of students at those schools. For the lowest FARMS schools, that top 15% number was a MAP-R raw score that's in the 96th percentile nationwide. Meaning that, to be in the 85th percentile at these specific schools, a student needed a score that was at or above the 96th percentile nationwide.

Sure, the MCPS district-wide MAP-R Norm Grade Level Mean is typically just a few points higher than the national Norm Grade Level Mean. But when MCPS grouped together the highest performing schools for purposes of local norming, the delta was much larger.

I completely believe this and it makes sense based on what we have heard anecdotally and the norming we saw on DC's documents. For this very low/almost 0 FARMS school the local norming was really severe. I would hope that when AEI and the schools create the list they use unnormed percentiles to create the list of kids needing ELC.

Some of the posters here don't seem to believe that schools like this exist but they do. At DC's school everyone except for a very small handful I could count on one hand was labeled gifted and was recommended for the Cogat for in older sib's year. I imagine most years including this year are similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

MCPS publishes this data. The difference was a few percentage points and even the differences between schools was not that significant. Again this is public record. I know it may not be what you want to hear but those are the facts.

No, you're wrong. Either you're looking at the wrong data and coming up with the wrong conclusions or you don't understand how MCPS created locally normed scores for the lowest FARMS schools. I encourage you to call the Division of Consortia Choice and Application Program Services at 240-740-2540 and ask them yourself. They will walk you through how they locally normed scores at the lowest FARMS schools. They're quite transparent and helpful.

When locally norming students, they made up a pool of schools with similar FARMS rates and then looked at what MAP-R score among students at those schools was at the 85th percentile of students at those schools. For the lowest FARMS schools, that top 15% number was a MAP-R raw score that's in the 96th percentile nationwide. Meaning that, to be in the 85th percentile at these specific schools, a student needed a score that was at or above the 96th percentile nationwide.

Sure, the MCPS district-wide MAP-R Norm Grade Level Mean is typically just a few points higher than the national Norm Grade Level Mean. But when MCPS grouped together the highest performing schools for purposes of local norming, the delta was much larger.

I completely believe this and it makes sense based on what we have heard anecdotally and the norming we saw on DC's documents. For this very low/almost 0 FARMS school the local norming was really severe. I would hope that when AEI and the schools create the list they use unnormed percentiles to create the list of kids needing ELC.

Some of the posters here don't seem to believe that schools like this exist but they do. At DC's school everyone except for a very small handful I could count on one hand was labeled gifted and was recommended for the Cogat for in older sib's year. I imagine most years including this year are similar.

Hopefully this is exaggeration and just based on kids you know in that school. Because otherwise its a real disadvantage to kids who are actually gifted. Every kid has unique gifts bit that doesn’t make them a gifted learner nor address the unique SEL these kids need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

Where did you find this information?

You know that the requirement is 96th for low-FARMS schools, and also that your daughter's 95th was downgraded to 83rd? Please share your sources.

I’m not the PP, but I am hearing this exact info for the cut off too. Coming from DCCAPS. Also hearing there were 5 tiers of local norm cohorts. So if you were in a school with very low FARMS the scores really did get adjusted significantly with local norming.

OP, the office of AEI will centrally recommend which kids should get ELC. Schools will get a list. Then principals will have leeway to add in other students who have data that is near the cut off or who have strong spring data. Some principals are more flexible about giving kids a chance, others are more rigid in using the central office recommendation. But your child’s scores are likely strong enough to make a case/request with your principal even if your child doesn’t get on the list from central office. No one knows what criteria or cut offs they will use bc ELC is relatively new and their process this year is different from past years.

If a 97/98/99 percentile student is in a very low FARMS school without the ELA, and didn't get selected for the CES, doesn't that student get very bored and feel unchallenged with reading class? Does anybody know what happens with these kids?

They join MS-13.

[Anonymous]

Pretty sure to get in ELC at your school, you only need an 80 percentile or higher map-R score. Other factors like grades and teacher input also matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure to get in ELC at your school, you only need an 80 percentile or higher map-R score. Other factors like grades and teacher input also matter.

some schools have zero teacher input.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

MCPS publishes this data. The difference was a few percentage points and even the differences between schools was not that significant. Again this is public record. I know it may not be what you want to hear but those are the facts.

No, you're wrong. Either you're looking at the wrong data and coming up with the wrong conclusions or you don't understand how MCPS created locally normed scores for the lowest FARMS schools. I encourage you to call the Division of Consortia Choice and Application Program Services at 240-740-2540 and ask them yourself. They will walk you through how they locally normed scores at the lowest FARMS schools. They're quite transparent and helpful.

When locally norming students, they made up a pool of schools with similar FARMS rates and then looked at what MAP-R score among students at those schools was at the 85th percentile of students at those schools. For the lowest FARMS schools, that top 15% number was a MAP-R raw score that's in the 96th percentile nationwide. Meaning that, to be in the 85th percentile at these specific schools, a student needed a score that was at or above the 96th percentile nationwide.

Sure, the MCPS district-wide MAP-R Norm Grade Level Mean is typically just a few points higher than the national Norm Grade Level Mean. But when MCPS grouped together the highest performing schools for purposes of local norming, the delta was much larger.

I completely believe this and it makes sense based on what we have heard anecdotally and the norming we saw on DC's documents. For this very low/almost 0 FARMS school the local norming was really severe. I would hope that when AEI and the schools create the list they use unnormed percentiles to create the list of kids needing ELC.

Some of the posters here don't seem to believe that schools like this exist but they do. At DC's school everyone except for a very small handful I could count on one hand was labeled gifted and was recommended for the Cogat for in older sib's year. I imagine most years including this year are similar.

I think AEI and Principals are still experimenting with the composition of ELC classes, so it is an unknown for parents. My child is not in 6th grade, but was in an early adopting "Pilot" ELC school. In 4th Grade, they had about 1/3 of the 4th Grade Class in ELC. In 5th Grade it was about half of the 5th Grade, which was a significant increase requiring another teacher. I don't think that was just about MAP scores increasing between 4th and 5th or new kids moving into the school. I think statistical analysis was continuing during the "pilot" to figure out how to give kids appropriate opportunities. Then they went to middle school and test based cut-offs were applied strictly for entrance into HIGH at the beginning of the year. So several students who had been in ELC were kept out of HIGH until 2nd quarter, when they were added back to the cohort because they were not being challenged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

MCPS publishes this data. The difference was a few percentage points and even the differences between schools was not that significant. Again this is public record. I know it may not be what you want to hear but those are the facts.

No, you're wrong. Either you're looking at the wrong data and coming up with the wrong conclusions or you don't understand how MCPS created locally normed scores for the lowest FARMS schools. I encourage you to call the Division of Consortia Choice and Application Program Services at 240-740-2540 and ask them yourself. They will walk you through how they locally normed scores at the lowest FARMS schools. They're quite transparent and helpful.

When locally norming students, they made up a pool of schools with similar FARMS rates and then looked at what MAP-R score among students at those schools was at the 85th percentile of students at those schools. For the lowest FARMS schools, that top 15% number was a MAP-R raw score that's in the 96th percentile nationwide. Meaning that, to be in the 85th percentile at these specific schools, a student needed a score that was at or above the 96th percentile nationwide.

Sure, the MCPS district-wide MAP-R Norm Grade Level Mean is typically just a few points higher than the national Norm Grade Level Mean. But when MCPS grouped together the highest performing schools for purposes of local norming, the delta was much larger.

I completely believe this and it makes sense based on what we have heard anecdotally and the norming we saw on DC's documents. For this very low/almost 0 FARMS school the local norming was really severe. I would hope that when AEI and the schools create the list they use unnormed percentiles to create the list of kids needing ELC.

Some of the posters here don't seem to believe that schools like this exist but they do. At DC's school everyone except for a very small handful I could count on one hand was labeled gifted and was recommended for the Cogat for in older sib's year. I imagine most years including this year are similar.

I think AEI and Principals are still experimenting with the composition of ELC classes, so it is an unknown for parents. My child is not in 6th grade, but was in an early adopting "Pilot" ELC school. In 4th Grade, they had about 1/3 of the 4th Grade Class in ELC. In 5th Grade it was about half of the 5th Grade, which was a significant increase requiring another teacher. I don't think that was just about MAP scores increasing between 4th and 5th or new kids moving into the school. I think statistical analysis was continuing during the "pilot" to figure out how to give kids appropriate opportunities. Then they went to middle school and test based cut-offs were applied strictly for entrance into HIGH at the beginning of the year. So several students who had been in ELC were kept out of HIGH until 2nd quarter, when they were added back to the cohort because they were not being challenged.

*NOW in 6th Grade

[Anonymous]

PPs who noted that the teachers and principal have a lot of leeway on this are right. Principals can pull students into ELC (and compacted math) based on school-level evaluation, teacher recommendations, etc.

But bear in mind that ELC (or CES) being a *good fit* for a child's reading/writing skills probably has much less to do with MAP (or any other) scores than parents of younger students tend to think.

The ELC curriculum (which has much in common with what is covered in CES, although I think there is definitely variance) requires a great deal of literary interpretation, analytical work, and long-term independent projects that involve reading entire age-appropriate books and writing about them. It has a lot more to do with thinking about authorial style, use of language, and the construction of argumentation--and not all of this is explicitly taught and practiced, so it often has to be dealt with outside of school. My 4th grader is learning a great deal, but here at home we are definitely partners with the teacher and the curriculum. And it has nothing to do with DC's lexile level or ability to comprehend texts of X scale of difficulty. It has to do with being able to intuit the skills needed for what we parents might better recognize as good middle-school level English courses from our youth.

And all of this helps to make ELC determination more of an art than a science. There are plenty of kids with high lexile levels who would be really turned off by long-term writing projects, for example, and there are surely lots of kids with bubble-level MAP scores ( = on the borderline) who love to write for whom ELC would be a terrific fit. That is why talking with the teacher (and team leader, if applicable) and principal makes a lot of sense. Go for it! Our principal really cares about getting this right, and I hope yours does too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

Where did you find this information?

You know that the requirement is 96th for low-FARMS schools, and also that your daughter's 95th was downgraded to 83rd? Please share your sources.

I’m not the PP, but I am hearing this exact info for the cut off too. Coming from DCCAPS. Also hearing there were 5 tiers of local norm cohorts. So if you were in a school with very low FARMS the scores really did get adjusted significantly with local norming.

OP, the office of AEI will centrally recommend which kids should get ELC. Schools will get a list. Then principals will have leeway to add in other students who have data that is near the cut off or who have strong spring data. Some principals are more flexible about giving kids a chance, others are more rigid in using the central office recommendation. But your child’s scores are likely strong enough to make a case/request with your principal even if your child doesn’t get on the list from central office. No one knows what criteria or cut offs they will use bc ELC is relatively new and their process this year is different from past years.

If a 97/98/99 percentile student is in a very low FARMS school without the ELA, and didn't get selected for the CES, doesn't that student get very bored and feel unchallenged with reading class? Does anybody know what happens with these kids?

They join MS-13.

NOt sure guess it depends on their parents, but if the parent steps up, they can provide a much stronger foundation than ELC anyway. MCPS isn't perfect and they can't do everything for everyone. Sometimes parents need to take that extra effort their children require.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My son did not get in the pool for the CES. His MAP-R scores were in the 94 percentile for Fall 2021 and 90 percentile for Winter 2021. While I don't think he is suited/qualified for the CES, I am hoping he will get into the ELC (His school offers the ELC.)

How hard is it to get into the ELC if a student was not in the CES pool?

Will the Spring Map-R be used for the selection?

If a student did not get selected for the ELC at the 4th grade, can the student still have a chance for the 5th grade?

Thanks in advance.

Even at one of the higher-performing schools, those scores should've been sufficient for the CES pool. The bar isn't that high and MCPS scores are within a few percent of national norms according to the data they've shared. There are other reasons a student might be disqualified like getting less than an A in.a relevant subject like writing. I would appeal the selection or lack thereof because this seems off and definitely contact the school about ELC.

This is not true. Call MCPS and get the facts - at the lowest FARMS schools, a student needed a winter MAP-R score in the 96th percentile and higher to qualify for the pool. My DD's 95th percentile winter MAP-R was "locally normed" down to the 83rd percentile and she didn't qualify for the pool solely because of that (need to be 85+ after local norming).

Where did you find this information?

You know that the requirement is 96th for low-FARMS schools, and also that your daughter's 95th was downgraded to 83rd? Please share your sources.

I’m not the PP, but I am hearing this exact info for the cut off too. Coming from DCCAPS. Also hearing there were 5 tiers of local norm cohorts. So if you were in a school with very low FARMS the scores really did get adjusted significantly with local norming.

OP, the office of AEI will centrally recommend which kids should get ELC. Schools will get a list. Then principals will have leeway to add in other students who have data that is near the cut off or who have strong spring data. Some principals are more flexible about giving kids a chance, others are more rigid in using the central office recommendation. But your child’s scores are likely strong enough to make a case/request with your principal even if your child doesn’t get on the list from central office. No one knows what criteria or cut offs they will use bc ELC is relatively new and their process this year is different from past years.

If a 97/98/99 percentile student is in a very low FARMS school without the ELA, and didn't get selected for the CES, doesn't that student get very bored and feel unchallenged with reading class? Does anybody know what happens with these kids?

They join MS-13.

NOt sure guess it depends on their parents, but if the parent steps up, they can provide a much stronger foundation than ELC anyway. MCPS isn't perfect and they can't do everything for everyone. Sometimes parents need to take that extra effort their children require.

It was a joke. The PP was concerned that a 97th percentile+, well-off kid in a very well-off school would be in serious danger of "falling through the cracks."

I guess I empathize with parental anxiety, but when you think about it, it's borderline ludicrous.

I assure you they have the cohort and the resources for boredom and lack of challenge not to be a significant issue.

[Anonymous]

When do we know if a child got in the ELA? Beginning of the school year?