Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

It is antisemitic to pretend that all Jews feel the same way. I and most of my Jewish friends hate Israel, are embarrassed by its existence, and don't think it should exist in its current form. Israel must allow the Palestinians the right of return, compensate them for all that it has stolen from them, and then try to move forward as a true democracy. Israel has a lot of work to do in terms of reconciliation and healing.

Zero percent chance that this is real.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amos Hochstein, special envoy from President Biden, is in Lebanon to help find a "diplomatic solution" to the Israeli - Hezbollah conflict.

Completely serious question: As Americans, are we just completely oblivious to how outrageously comical it seems that the only people we send to the Middle East to broker peace happen to be Jewish? This guy is an Israeli-American businessman, diplomat, and former lobbyist, per his profile. Really?

Every person we put on ME diplomatic duty seems to be Jewish. Are we for real? I mean, seriously? Are we for real? Do we think it doesn't seem offensive and outrageous to the people we're trying to coax into a deal?

How would everyone feel if we sent Rashida Tlaib over to the ME with full U.S. authority to force a long-term settlement between Israel and the Palestinians? But the Palestinians and Lebanese are supposed to be A-OK that the U.S. is being represented by an Israeli with full U.S. authority to broker peace?

This is like a fever dream. What is going on???

It's just a comical as Kamala's recent ceasefire call.

Well we wouldn’t feel good, because Tlaib is a moron

Amos Hochstein could be a great guy, I don't know much about him. But an Israeli citizen and former IDF soldier is not a good mediator in this situation and there is an obvious appearance of bias. The US should have sent someone else.

That’s by design . They wouldn’t have sent someone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither government of the Palestinians is really great. The West Bank govt is extremely passive about Israel from settlements and settlers and it’s illegal for their police to help Palestinians against illegal Jewish settlements. That’s a joke of a government . They’re super passive and soft with Israel .

On the other hand, Hamas is tough with Israel, too aggressive about Israel and batshit insane although they are somewhat better than the Authority and many other Arab countries when it comes to some things like education . They are really good with opening many colleges in Gaza and that’s about it

"Extremely passive"??? You realize that there is absolutely nothing Palestinians can legally do to resist the settlement movement? Without being branded a terrorist, I mean?

Well then, that means Hamas is justified since the West Bank is defenseless. They did their actions on 10/7 for the West Bank Palestinians specifically the ones who were raided at the mosque

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

It is antisemitic to pretend that all Jews feel the same way. I and most of my Jewish friends hate Israel, are embarrassed by its existence, and don't think it should exist in its current form. Israel must allow the Palestinians the right of return, compensate them for all that it has stolen from them, and then try to move forward as a true democracy. Israel has a lot of work to do in terms of reconciliation and healing.

Zero percent chance that this is real.

It could be real. Dissent is very Jewish and I’ve seen a few Jews who don’t like Israel. Sanders is one of them

[Anonymous]

Give me a break PP. Hamas wants to destroy Israel and doesn’t give a crap about Palestinians. It’s not that hard to see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

It is antisemitic to pretend that all Jews feel the same way. I and most of my Jewish friends hate Israel, are embarrassed by its existence, and don't think it should exist in its current form. Israel must allow the Palestinians the right of return, compensate them for all that it has stolen from them, and then try to move forward as a true democracy. Israel has a lot of work to do in terms of reconciliation and healing.

Zero percent chance that this is real.

It could be real. Dissent is very Jewish and I’ve seen a few Jews who don’t like Israel. Sanders is one of them

Sanders is a dipshit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

Also, to add, I believe it's possible to be Israeli, support the right of Israel to exist, and yet not be a racist, intolerant, POS Zionist. In fact, I hope that most of Israel is comprised of people like that - proud Israelis who don't support the apartheid, war crime actions of their government.

I wouldn’t hold my breath .

Netanyahu ultimately won for 20 years in Israel for a reason

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

It is antisemitic to pretend that all Jews feel the same way. I and most of my Jewish friends hate Israel, are embarrassed by its existence, and don't think it should exist in its current form. Israel must allow the Palestinians the right of return, compensate them for all that it has stolen from them, and then try to move forward as a true democracy. Israel has a lot of work to do in terms of reconciliation and healing.

Zero percent chance that this is real.

It could be real. Dissent is very Jewish and I’ve seen a few Jews who don’t like Israel. Sanders is one of them

Sanders is a dipshit

What about Jill Stein? Noam Chomsky? Max Blumenberg? Jon Stewart? All Jewish.

They aren’t dipshits . They have hearts. If leaders like that led Israel, there wouldn’t be any Hamas .

The idea that right wingers keep Israel safe is a falsehood . Look at Ben Gvir. A radical West Bank settler put in the highest ring of government upping the ante on West Bank violence, tensions , settler incursions -leading the Gaza border crossing empty of IDF during a Saturday morning and Jewish holiday in Israel. The IDF were in the West Bank on 10/7 trying to protect settlers on a religious pilgrimage to some tomb in Palestinian territory. During Muslim religious holiday last Ramadan, Ben Gvir did a raid at the Al Aqsa mosque that Hamas claims was the reason for 10/7 which they call the Al Aqsa Flood Operation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

It is antisemitic to pretend that all Jews feel the same way. I and most of my Jewish friends hate Israel, are embarrassed by its existence, and don't think it should exist in its current form. Israel must allow the Palestinians the right of return, compensate them for all that it has stolen from them, and then try to move forward as a true democracy. Israel has a lot of work to do in terms of reconciliation and healing.

Zero percent chance that this is real.

It could be real. Dissent is very Jewish and I’ve seen a few Jews who don’t like Israel. Sanders is one of them

Sanders is a dipshit

Sanders is the only antitode to progressive /youth-led antisemitism . He is very important even if you don’t like him. Things would probably be far worse for the Jewish community right now without him. The Tiktokers are on the fact that Zelensky and Netanyahu are Jewish and take all of Congress’/taxpayers money while Biden reneged on his promise of student loans. Bernie’s free college stance among others is largely why he rose to power and reslly should’ve won the DNC nomination before Donna Brazile and Debbie Wasserman rigged it for Hillary . Bernie would’ve beat Trump easily

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

It is antisemitic to pretend that all Jews feel the same way. I and most of my Jewish friends hate Israel, are embarrassed by its existence, and don't think it should exist in its current form. Israel must allow the Palestinians the right of return, compensate them for all that it has stolen from them, and then try to move forward as a true democracy. Israel has a lot of work to do in terms of reconciliation and healing.

Zero percent chance that this is real.

It could be real. Dissent is very Jewish and I’ve seen a few Jews who don’t like Israel. Sanders is one of them

Sanders is a dipshit

What about Jill Stein? Noam Chomsky? Max Blumenberg? Jon Stewart? All Jewish.

They aren’t dipshits . They have hearts. If leaders like that led Israel, there wouldn’t be any Hamas .

The idea that right wingers keep Israel safe is a falsehood . Look at Ben Gvir. A radical West Bank settler put in the highest ring of government upping the ante on West Bank violence, tensions , settler incursions -leading the Gaza border crossing empty of IDF during a Saturday morning and Jewish holiday in Israel. The IDF were in the West Bank on 10/7 trying to protect settlers on a religious pilgrimage to some tomb in Palestinian territory. During Muslim religious holiday last Ramadan, Ben Gvir did a raid at the Al Aqsa mosque that Hamas claims was the reason for 10/7 which they call the Al Aqsa Flood Operation.

I saw Jill Stein in there and had to chime in: She is a doctor, and just praised self-harm and encouraged young mentally ill people to set themselves on fire for Hamas a couple weeks ago. Let's please forget the woman even exists, she's an embarrassment and no great voice for anyone on this planet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

It is antisemitic to pretend that all Jews feel the same way. I and most of my Jewish friends hate Israel, are embarrassed by its existence, and don't think it should exist in its current form. Israel must allow the Palestinians the right of return, compensate them for all that it has stolen from them, and then try to move forward as a true democracy. Israel has a lot of work to do in terms of reconciliation and healing.

Zero percent chance that this is real.

It could be real. Dissent is very Jewish and I’ve seen a few Jews who don’t like Israel. Sanders is one of them

Sanders is a dipshit

Sanders is the only antitode to progressive /youth-led antisemitism . He is very important even if you don’t like him. Things would probably be far worse for the Jewish community right now without him. The Tiktokers are on the fact that Zelensky and Netanyahu are Jewish and take all of Congress’/taxpayers money while Biden reneged on his promise of student loans. Bernie’s free college stance among others is largely why he rose to power and reslly should’ve won the DNC nomination before Donna Brazile and Debbie Wasserman rigged it for Hillary . Bernie would’ve beat Trump easily

New poster here, and former Bernie voter. The man sometimes has great ideas, but he has accomplished nothing. It's just a lot of talk. I may still like some of that talk, but I stopped being a supporter when I woke up and realized it would never go anywhere. As for the "tiktokers", you seem to indicate they only like "good jews" like Bernie. Being a "good jew" has never saved the jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

It is antisemitic to pretend that all Jews feel the same way. I and most of my Jewish friends hate Israel, are embarrassed by its existence, and don't think it should exist in its current form. Israel must allow the Palestinians the right of return, compensate them for all that it has stolen from them, and then try to move forward as a true democracy. Israel has a lot of work to do in terms of reconciliation and healing.

Zero percent chance that this is real.

It could be real. Dissent is very Jewish and I’ve seen a few Jews who don’t like Israel. Sanders is one of them

Sanders is a dipshit

What about Jill Stein? Noam Chomsky? Max Blumenberg? Jon Stewart? All Jewish.

They aren’t dipshits . They have hearts. If leaders like that led Israel, there wouldn’t be any Hamas .

The idea that right wingers keep Israel safe is a falsehood . Look at Ben Gvir. A radical West Bank settler put in the highest ring of government upping the ante on West Bank violence, tensions , settler incursions -leading the Gaza border crossing empty of IDF during a Saturday morning and Jewish holiday in Israel. The IDF were in the West Bank on 10/7 trying to protect settlers on a religious pilgrimage to some tomb in Palestinian territory. During Muslim religious holiday last Ramadan, Ben Gvir did a raid at the Al Aqsa mosque that Hamas claims was the reason for 10/7 which they call the Al Aqsa Flood Operation.

PP. Right- I don’t like any of them. Luckily there is a whole lot between Bernie Sanders “the good Jew whom progressives like”, and Ben Gvir, whom I also don’t like at all- and they do have hearts.

They just understand, like Hillary Clinton does, that the Hamas aggression needs to be stopped. Instead of blaming Israel, why -again- don’t you focus your energy on getting Hamas to release the hostages?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Give me a break PP. Hamas wants to destroy Israel and doesn’t give a crap about Palestinians. It’s not that hard to see.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

Also, to add, I believe it's possible to be Israeli, support the right of Israel to exist, and yet not be a racist, intolerant, POS Zionist. In fact, I hope that most of Israel is comprised of people like that - proud Israelis who don't support the apartheid, war crime actions of their government.

If you support the right of Israel to exist, you’re a Zionist. Congrats/ So which is it?

If supporting the right of Israel is what definitionally makes one a Zionist then it's time to stop demonizing and denigrating the term and using it as a pejorative, because for example if you support a two state solution that also makes you a zionist. Meanwhile, if you do not believe in the right of Israel to exist, that makes you a supporter of ethnic cleansing. Or, do words just not mean anything anymore and it's all empty vicious rhetoric?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

It is antisemitic to pretend that all Jews feel the same way. I and most of my Jewish friends hate Israel, are embarrassed by its existence, and don't think it should exist in its current form. Israel must allow the Palestinians the right of return, compensate them for all that it has stolen from them, and then try to move forward as a true democracy. Israel has a lot of work to do in terms of reconciliation and healing.

Zero percent chance that this is real.

It could be real. Dissent is very Jewish and I’ve seen a few Jews who don’t like Israel. Sanders is one of them

Sanders is a dipshit

Sanders is the only antitode to progressive /youth-led antisemitism . He is very important even if you don’t like him. Things would probably be far worse for the Jewish community right now without him. The Tiktokers are on the fact that Zelensky and Netanyahu are Jewish and take all of Congress’/taxpayers money while Biden reneged on his promise of student loans. Bernie’s free college stance among others is largely why he rose to power and reslly should’ve won the DNC nomination before Donna Brazile and Debbie Wasserman rigged it for Hillary . Bernie would’ve beat Trump easily

New poster here, and former Bernie voter. The man sometimes has great ideas, but he has accomplished nothing. It's just a lot of talk. I may still like some of that talk, but I stopped being a supporter when I woke up and realized it would never go anywhere. As for the "tiktokers", you seem to indicate they only like "good jews" like Bernie. Being a "good jew" has never saved the jews.

Thank you for recognizing that.