Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither government of the Palestinians is really great. The West Bank govt is extremely passive about Israel from settlements and settlers and it’s illegal for their police to help Palestinians against illegal Jewish settlements. That’s a joke of a government . They’re super passive and soft with Israel .

On the other hand, Hamas is tough with Israel, too aggressive about Israel and batshit insane although they are somewhat better than the Authority and many other Arab countries when it comes to some things like education . They are really good with opening many colleges in Gaza and that’s about it

"Extremely passive"??? You realize that there is absolutely nothing Palestinians can legally do to resist the settlement movement? Without being branded a terrorist, I mean?

Awww is this Mohammed Al-Kurd?

"You can’t protest peacefully. You can’t boycott. You can’t hunger strike. You can’t hijack planes. You can’t block traffic. You can’t throw Molotovs. You can’t self-immolate. You can’t heckle politicians. You can’t march. You can’t riot. You can’t dissent. You just can’t be” X, Feb 26, 2024

https://x.com/m7mdkurd/status/1762255555907694610?s=46&t=nrQRp96fjyl1qPVKcS3MgA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

Also, to add, I believe it's possible to be Israeli, support the right of Israel to exist, and yet not be a racist, intolerant, POS Zionist. In fact, I hope that most of Israel is comprised of people like that - proud Israelis who don't support the apartheid, war crime actions of their government.

If you support the right of Israel to exist, you’re a Zionist. Congrats/ So which is it?

DP.

Bingo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Read the thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

I scrolled back, and apparently, you were responding to a different poster. I suggest you apologize to her for your slur.

And you're gaslighting in a most despicable way when you now claim I want to "eliminate" you. Zionists so often cloak themselves in victimhood in order to steal land and get away with hideous atrocities. I tried to explain the difference between eliminating people and disagreeing with their perspectives earlier. Your refusal to understand probably stems from the same bias that informs your one-sided view of history. "Me, me, me. Only I count. I'm so narcissistic that I don't care about any perspective other than my own or any people other than myself, and I am always the victim, even when I'm hurting other people." It's utterly selfish, dishonest, and antisocial behavior. You need to grow yourself if you want to have any credibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Read the thread.

I did. There is no evidence that the PP made this statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

I scrolled back, and apparently, you were responding to a different poster. I suggest you apologize to her for your slur.

And you're gaslighting in a most despicable way when you now claim I want to "eliminate" you. Zionists so often cloak themselves in victimhood in order to steal land and get away with hideous atrocities. I tried to explain the difference between eliminating people and disagreeing with their perspectives earlier. Your refusal to understand probably stems from the same bias that informs your one-sided view of history. "Me, me, me. Only I count. I'm so narcissistic that I don't care about any perspective other than my own or any people other than myself, and I am always the victim, even when I'm hurting other people." It's utterly selfish, dishonest, and antisocial behavior. You need to grow yourself if you want to have any credibility.

I'm sorry - some anti-semite calls for the elimination of all Zionists, and I'm supposed to apologize to her? While you spout ugly, hateful rhetoric yourself?

You people are the least self-aware group of a-turds I have encountered in a very long time. You also hurt your own cause every single time you interact with a human person who isn't already part of your disgusting movement.

Insult me more. Please. An angel earns their wings every time you use the word "zionist"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

It is antisemitic to pretend that all Jews feel the same way. I and most of my Jewish friends hate Israel, are embarrassed by its existence, and don't think it should exist in its current form. Israel must allow the Palestinians the right of return, compensate them for all that it has stolen from them, and then try to move forward as a true democracy. Israel has a lot of work to do in terms of reconciliation and healing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

I scrolled back, and apparently, you were responding to a different poster. I suggest you apologize to her for your slur.

And you're gaslighting in a most despicable way when you now claim I want to "eliminate" you. Zionists so often cloak themselves in victimhood in order to steal land and get away with hideous atrocities. I tried to explain the difference between eliminating people and disagreeing with their perspectives earlier. Your refusal to understand probably stems from the same bias that informs your one-sided view of history. "Me, me, me. Only I count. I'm so narcissistic that I don't care about any perspective other than my own or any people other than myself, and I am always the victim, even when I'm hurting other people." It's utterly selfish, dishonest, and antisocial behavior. You need to grow yourself if you want to have any credibility.

I'm sorry - some anti-semite calls for the elimination of all Zionists, and I'm supposed to apologize to her? While you spout ugly, hateful rhetoric yourself?

You people are the least self-aware group of a-turds I have encountered in a very long time. You also hurt your own cause every single time you interact with a human person who isn't already part of your disgusting movement.

Insult me more. Please. An angel earns their wings every time you use the word "zionist"

No, you responded to a different poster. You should apologize to her.

The "disgusting movement" is the one that has been genociding Palestinians for decades. It's utterly repugnant. And claiming to be an "angel" directly supports my accusations of narcissism. How can you think you have the moral high ground when you're a racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first DCUM forum I was on over ten years ago was the Infertility support forum. The story of this woman, who had twin babies after three rounds of IVF and 10 years of trying to start a family, particularly touched me.

Both her babies, who were 4 months old, her husband, sister, nephew, and other relatives were killed in a bombing in Rafah on Saturday.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-children-twins-killed-gaza-25282b273b92aec7fc75c3212f8d8e3f

That’s especially sad. You really cherish your children more when you work so hard to get them.

I would want to be dead if I lost my family in seconds like that .

I really think suicide bombings will come back to Israel if grief counseling and other options are not available. So many people are focused on the physical needs only like food and water and shelter but war creates psychological trauma. The Israeli hostages will have free therapy for life and are already in the processes of recovery but who will be there for the Palestinians who are suffering mentally from this war?

That’s because israel has normal societal values and priortiizes their citizens well being.

I can tell you who doesn’t care about Palestinian psychological trauma: Hamas. Tortured Palestinians only perpetuate their cause and PR. Hamas for two decades has siphoned away aid and resources into building an extensive terrorism network.

the whole thing is f**cked.

Israel is intentionally starving 1.5 million people right now. Those are not normal societal values. I'd like to think that it's just the 10% that are straight up Jewish Supremacists that are doing this BUT the silence is deafening.

And why is not on Hamas to surrender and release the f**cking hostages? They rejected a ceasefire last week.

The Israelis government does not want the f#$king hostages back. I guess the Israel government realizes you do not let a few hostages stop you from do what you want. If the Israelis government does not care about getting the hostages back why do you? Specially after killing 32,000 people what’s a few hundred more..right?

You're insane or stupid. Israel has repeatedly asked for the return of the hostages, and has been putting troops lives at risk based on tips and intel but keeps coming up empty because Hamas is still very much active and able to move them around and keep them hidden.

Idf is definitely not putting their soldiers ar huge risk. They could’ve easily done what Us did in Iraq and break doors down and do a run n gun operation.

Israel overly relies on aerial bombing and that leads to more civilian deaths . No war in history is ever won without a good ground strategy.

First off, Israel dragged its feet in even sending foot soldiers in on not just 10/7 but the entire month of October.

The Gaza Strip is tiny. All of the hostages and Hamas captives could’ve easily been found if they went inside Gaza for a ground operation on October 8. At that point, Hamas had to have still been organizing how to divvy up all the hostages and what to do since they took so many.

The IDF waited forever to get inside Isrsel or Gaza and never wants to confront Hamas to their face when the opportunity is ripe.

It is far from a heroic army that puts themselves at risk. Their army is good for stripping people down, beating them up, shooting children, people with white flags including Israelis.

Israelis army needs better training .

You are clueless or dishonest. Do you know what's involved in the kind of door-to-door search would entail? Door to door fighting. Hamas snipers. IEDs. Ambushes. No risk? You truly are either the most dishonest poster here, or you are the most clueless and idiotic.

It isn’t clueless or dishonest. Why didn’t the IDF go to the kibbutz then? No Hamas booby traps there? 200+ hostages on motorbikes and trucks is insane

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

I scrolled back, and apparently, you were responding to a different poster. I suggest you apologize to her for your slur.

And you're gaslighting in a most despicable way when you now claim I want to "eliminate" you. Zionists so often cloak themselves in victimhood in order to steal land and get away with hideous atrocities. I tried to explain the difference between eliminating people and disagreeing with their perspectives earlier. Your refusal to understand probably stems from the same bias that informs your one-sided view of history. "Me, me, me. Only I count. I'm so narcissistic that I don't care about any perspective other than my own or any people other than myself, and I am always the victim, even when I'm hurting other people." It's utterly selfish, dishonest, and antisocial behavior. You need to grow yourself if you want to have any credibility.

I'm sorry - some anti-semite calls for the elimination of all Zionists, and I'm supposed to apologize to her? While you spout ugly, hateful rhetoric yourself?

You people are the least self-aware group of a-turds I have encountered in a very long time. You also hurt your own cause every single time you interact with a human person who isn't already part of your disgusting movement.

Insult me more. Please. An angel earns their wings every time you use the word "zionist"

No, you responded to a different poster. You should apologize to her.

The "disgusting movement" is the one that has been genociding Palestinians for decades. It's utterly repugnant. And claiming to be an "angel" directly supports my accusations of narcissism. How can you think you have the moral high ground when you're a racist?

DP.

Still don't know what that means, do ya?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

It is antisemitic to pretend that all Jews feel the same way. I and most of my Jewish friends hate Israel, are embarrassed by its existence, and don't think it should exist in its current form. Israel must allow the Palestinians the right of return, compensate them for all that it has stolen from them, and then try to move forward as a true democracy. Israel has a lot of work to do in terms of reconciliation and healing.

Zero percent chance that this is real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in this thread want to offer a Mae culpa for denying the rapes that occurred that the U.N. confirmed? Both on 10/7 and in captivity? Anyone?

Yeah, I do. If they have been proven to have happened (beyond the UN statements I saw yesterday that were not quite definitive), I was wrong to have suggested the evidence would prove otherwise. Mea culpa.

Never denied.

Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace.

And a call for genocide.

Lovely.

I wouldn't be supportive of the elimination of any group of people without much more granular information, but how is this different than calling for the mass elimination of Hamas? You understand that Zionism is viewed as an unapologetically violent, vicious, inhumane, and racist ideology, right?

Zionism is abhorrent. It's NOT simply about creating and sustaining a Jewish homeland, unless you want to pretend that the ends justify the means - no matter how violent, viciously cruel, inhumane and racist those means were/are.

Hamas is obviously abhorrent, as well. But let's not pretend that subjugated people seeking any means necessary[u] to try to achieve their goals isn't an accusation that can comfortably describe the actions of both of these groups. In fact, Zionism fathered modern day terrorism. It's a fact. If you dispute that, go cry and pound sand about 10/7 elsewhere.

My, what a contortionist you are!

You called for genocide of Zionists, which includes virtually every Israeli.

So the equivalent is not, as you argue, calling for the elimination of Hamas; rather, the equivalent would be calling for genocide of Palestinians.

Evil, hypocritical, and not particularly capable, all in one neat little package.

Thanks for so ably demonstrating the true colors and the limitations of the pro-Palestinian movement. Much appreciated.

I think you (willfully?) misrepresent the PP's position. Palestinians have and have always had rights. Under UN Resolution 194, they have the right of return or fair compensation for their stolen property. Their brutal eviction and removal to make way for the state of Israel was undeniably ethnic cleansing. If you support what Zionists have done (and continue to do) to the Palestinians, you can't credibly condemn 10/7.

The problem now is what to do about a long and ongoing history of genocidal Zionist atrocities, Palestinian subjugation, and outbursts of Palestinian rage. Relations between the two groups are as bad as they've been in 76 years, and nobody has yet come up with a workable solution.

I think you (willfully) are trying to redirect the conversation away from the key point: the PP wrote "Need to eliminate all Zionists."

That's unambiguous.

As for the rest, your formulation is, of course, ludicrously one-sided, neglecting (among other things) the Palestinian/Arab war of annihilation that gave rise to the eviction of Palestinians.

Spare us the Palestinians-as-innocents narrative. Plenty of blame to go around.

Where exactly does she say that? I have not seen that quote. She described Zionism as an abhorrent philosophy. I agree. Zionism is racist and ethno-supremacist and is used to justify atrocities toward the Palestinians with the goal of privileging their own group. One can and should combat Zionism the same way one can and should combat white supremacy. That doesn't mean the same thing as "eliminating all Zionists" or "eliminating all white supremacists." It means countering the ideology at every opportunity with more palatable narratives and protecting where possible the erasure of their victims. It means trying to change hearts and minds rather than trying to kill off the people who hold these views.

As for the rest being one-sided, please consider that the Zionist narrative stems from a supremacist worldview that is very carefully constructed. Why do you think Israel refuses to release its archives from the time of the Nakba? What is it trying to hide? And why are Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe and Teddy Katz publicly and viciously attacked when they provide carefully and painstakingly collected narratives from Zionist veterans? Ilan Pappe left Israel because he felt unsafe there, and Teddy Katz's once-promising academic career was completely destroyed. Why does Israel assassinate truth-telling journalists and writers? Why are journalists restricted from visiting Gaza, and why are the few embedded with the IDF in Gaza not allowed to communicate with Palestinians and only allowed to visit the places the IDF allows them to visit? When you limit yourself to information and talking points provided only by one side, perhaps it is your viewpoint that is "ludicrously one-sided"?

Take a scroll back

"Still. Need to eliminate all Zionists. Then there will be peace."

Do you wonder why Jews are feeling skittish right now - and why many of us are feeling strongly that Israel needs to exist as a safe place for Jews who aren't safe elsewhere? Even if we detest the current Israeli government - we also think Israel should exist. And you want to "eliminate" us.

Lol I know you don't wonder. Don't bother answering.

It is antisemitic to pretend that all Jews feel the same way. I and most of my Jewish friends hate Israel, are embarrassed by its existence, and don't think it should exist in its current form. Israel must allow the Palestinians the right of return, compensate them for all that it has stolen from them, and then try to move forward as a true democracy. Israel has a lot of work to do in terms of reconciliation and healing.

Oh please. You’re either 14, living in Oakland, or lying.