Things public schools no longer teach and why?

[Anonymous]

I came to the US as an adult, so my experience is limited to my personal observation. Is that true that public schools (nationwide and specifically in Nova area) really no longer teach handwriting, grammar, sentence diagraming and logic? If so, why?

Anything else today's PS dropped compared to those in the 80's?

[Anonymous]

It depends on the district but spelling using weekly spelling lists is not typical anymore. Grammar, if it is taught at all, is taught as it comes up in the curriculum. I went to Catholic school and was taught grammar separately. It was a subject like spelling. We had separate books for grammar, spelling, phonics, math, science, and social studies. Handwriting was also taught and graded. Some districts do teach phonics and some claim they do but they teach BS reading "strategies" instead. I diagrammed sentences for my entire 8th-grade year. I doubt it is done in public school anymore unless it is something individual teachers decide to do on their own. We had to diagram sentences in composition notebooks for homework.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand the DCUM obsession with sentence diagraming.

My daughter is learning grammar in elementary school and she has weekly spelling lists. She does a lot of word work in school.

[Anonymous]

No grammar, pretty much no spelling, no cursive (I can live with that), no structured writing/composition program. So, so terrible. Kids at "highly sought after" FCPS AAP center.

[Anonymous]

I've read, but not experienced yet since mine are still in daycare/preschool, that social studies has dropped away considerably.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/08/the-radical-case-for-teaching-kids-stuff/592765/

[Anonymous]

It’s always amusing when people post nostalgia for they way they were taught, as if those archaic methods were superior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the DCUM obsession with sentence diagraming.

My daughter is learning grammar in elementary school and she has weekly spelling lists. She does a lot of word work in school.

lol
I’ll believe you when you name the school. No one ever does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s always amusing when people post nostalgia for they way they were taught, as if those archaic methods were superior.

This.

I don't know what the PP was talking about with "no structured writing/composition" but we def still have that in MCPS. I also don't understand what "logic" is in the context mentioned.

When I was a kid (also in MCPS), we were at least more likely than now to be taught:

-Cursive
-More focus on perfecting handwriting in general-- which made sense at a time most people didn't have a home computer!
-Spelling
-Sentence diagramming (but I don't remember getting a ton of this-- maybe a bit in 4th and a bit in 7th?)
-Typing, including as an elective class in Jr. High/HS
-Home economics and woodworking were at least offered more frequently as electives in Jr. High/HS
-Lots of people my age (early 40s) still had Driver's Ed classes in school as an option, though I'm not sure my HS had it by the 90s
-Longer recess

When my parents were kids/teens (PG County public schools), they were more likely to have been taught:

-Geography as a discrete course with just names/places-- and history as a more name/date drilling thing
-Even more home ec/woodworking/etc. type courses
-I feel like they had "Civics" as a discrete course. I don't think we've necessarily lost that, just integrated it more.
-Same maybe for "Speech/Debate?"
-Not to use their left hands if they were left-handed!
-More PE, like daily PE in ES

Probably some other things I'm forgetting.

OTOH, my kid gets things like...

-A lot more computer exposure, almost no need for a specific typing class (this has pros and cons, but just saying)
-More diverse reading materials
-Many more foreign language options
-More opportunities for collaborative projects (I had a lot, but I was always in magnet/"GT" programs-- my husband and parents rarely did)
-More critical thinking activities (see above)

I think it's better on the whole. Would like it if my kid had longer recess, more PE, and more exposure to "industrial/domestic arts." Otherwise, I think these have been fine tradeoffs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s always amusing when people post nostalgia for they way they were taught, as if those archaic methods were superior.

Do you work in curriculum and instruction? I would be interested to hear the researchers and studies you find to be most important on this topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the DCUM obsession with sentence diagraming.

My daughter is learning grammar in elementary school and she has weekly spelling lists. She does a lot of word work in school.

+1. I went to excellent public schools in New England in the late 90s and never diagrammed a sentence. We learned different types of sentences. Something like this link but we also had sentences with lists, etc.

https://wilson-scusd-ca.schoolloop.com/pf4/cms2/view_page?d=x&group_id=1520065444510&vdid=i10pb981slz3g2l2

Anyways I am pretty strong in grammar (this post notwithstanding) though part of that may also be due to my love of classic literature.

[Anonymous]

In MCPS, no cursive, no hand writing, no grammar, and any boring basic sklls are taught currently and for the past 12 years. No times tables in math. Just draw dots and a loyts of dits.

[Anonymous]

OP the answer is multi-layered but this article touches on one of the issues.

Why So Many Kids Struggle to Learn: Teachers continue to be trained in ways that ignore the findings of cognitive science
https://theamericanscholar.org/why-so-many-kids-struggle-to-learn/


"In recent decades, teacher-educators have drawn a dichotomy between the “cognitive” model, or framework, and the “sociocultural” one, rejecting the former and embracing the latter. In ed school usage, “cognitive” refers not to the principles advanced by DfI, which are premised on relatively recent research, but to any theory of learning that emphasizes cognition. The sociocultural model focuses on the learner’s interaction with teachers and others and the influence of culture—specifically cultures that have been historically marginalized.

In theory, the models could be combined; no cognitive scientist would deny that interaction and culture play a role in learning, and presumably most educators acknowledge that cognition has some importance. Beyond that, both models see prior knowledge as central to learning. But the sociocultural model prioritizes the knowledge students acquire from their own communities, whereas the cognitive framework emphasizes knowledge relating to whatever students are expected to learn next. Disagreements over what content to include in the curriculum have complicated and politicized the issue."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In MCPS, no cursive, no hand writing, no grammar, and any boring basic sklls are taught currently and for the past 12 years. No times tables in math. Just draw dots and a loyts of dits.

I would hate to have to draw loyts of dits. We definitely never did that when I was in elementary school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In MCPS, no cursive, no hand writing, no grammar, and any boring basic sklls are taught currently and for the past 12 years. No times tables in math. Just draw dots and a loyts of dits.

Parents can buy their kids handwriting and cursive workbooks if they want to. These are labor and time consuming “subjects,” that would require time being taken away in another area.

[Anonymous]

This is OP replying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I also don't understand what "logic" is in the context mentioned.

I mean formal logic (induction, deduction, etc.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Would like it if my kid had longer recess, more PE, and more exposure to "industrial/domestic arts."

What is "industrial/domestic art"? Woodworking, pottery, etc.?
I despise hours and hours of practicing cursive writing (forced to use my right hand) and drilling history dates/timetable facts as a kid. Today's collaborative projects and critical thinking activities are hit and miss depending on the schools though. I want my dc to have neat handwriting, not necessarily cursive. My dc's ES does not teach structured writing: no grammar, no vocabulary, no sentence structure/variety, no teacher's proofreading/suggestions. I just don't know if they'll learn them later in MS or HS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We learned different types of sentences. Something like this link but we also had sentences with lists, etc.

What are "sentences with lists"?

I learnt English as a second language and only know what I learn. I want my dc to instead learn it the same way as native English speaker does. I want them to be able to spell any word, comprehend any text, and communicate clearly. I want them to be able to learn from what they read, instead of using background knowledge & keywords to guess the comprehension questions in a reading test.