Has Duran gone mad? (APS)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And 40% of teachers don’t want to go back. The questionnaire was flawed. If you didn’t have any reason preventing you from returning (health issue yourself, in your family, or child care concern) then the only option was “I want to go back”. There was no “I don’t feel safe but I am not at risk or have childcare concerns”.

I think this goes back to the essential workers debate. Teachers *should* be essential workers, and therefore this questionnaire makes complete sense. And if childcare concerns is a reason, that's pretty impressive. Most essential workers with students learning from home for the past several months probably didn't have that same option.

DP. As a parent I completely disagree. I don't see why anyone in their right minds thinks that teachers should be essential workers. IMO people like you are crazy for insisting and demanding that teachers are essential. They're not. They're doing a great job with DL and there is no reason for them to risk their lives in the classrooms right now when DL is working. I get it that it might not be working for you but honestly that isn't my worry or problem. For everyone else I know, we are all very happy with DL and I'm not about to demand that teachers go back to school and risk their health to do it.

If schools are doing such a great job with DL, why are failing rates climbing? Even if the answer is that kids aren’t doing the work, that’s an indication that schools are failing to engage those students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it just me, or are others getting the sense that many teachers will battle returning to class even if we had every safety measure in place. Feels like it will never be enough.

That’s my sense too. If we don’t get schools reopened this year, I expect teachers will fight for them to remain closed next year too.

Why though?? Is it because they are too comfortable WFH? I just can't figure out why so many teachers are making the return extremely difficult.

I think it’s a bunch of factors. Yes, working from home is a lot more comfortable. There are far fewer disciplinary issues and behavioral management issues that come with 100% DL. It’s like having all the bad/disruptive kids out of your class and just the calm, compliant ones. With the standards so far relaxed for this year to the point where there’s basically no accountability to prove the students are actually learning anything, it’s easy to rely on the continued closures/all DL as a convenient crutch. Say “it’s not safe” but really you don’t care if it’s safe or not because distance learning is working for some teachers and they’ll fight tooth and nail to hang onto it.

Then there are some who are really paranoid about the virus. Maybe they’re actually high risk, maybe they’re not.

Then there are some who don’t want to make any changes that might be required if they go into schools. These are the ones who are traveling, seeing friends, and/or relying on older people in their lives for child care. With more exposure in the schools, they’d have to make lifestyle changes as a result and they just don’t want to do that.

This is awful. Especially point #1.

My kids are loving school without the behavior problems. I cannot tell you how happy they are that all the bad kids are sidelined. It is like a totally diffferent experience for them without having their classes constantly disrupted by some random kid who is acting out.

Every time I read a comment like this, I become that much more committed to advocating for schools to reopen. You’re not a good person, and I’m not going to cater to the worst of our community. And no, I don’t have one of “those kids,” I’m just not a rank asshole.

Let me reframe your statement: You want to reopen schools at the height of a pandemic because you want misbehaving kids in school INSTEAD OF addressing the reasons why the kid is misbehaving? Really? You really think the best choice is to put kids and teachers in an environment where they have an increased chance of catching the virus within their communities? Wow.

I am happy that the kids who misbehaved before DL are now not misbehaving with DL. That seems like something we should all be happy about. Instead you want the kids who were misbehaving BEFORE we went to DL and now you want to throw them back into a germ bowl along with their teachers and I am the one who is not a good person? Huh.

You were silent before the virus on the misbehaving kids; you didn't care about them at all. However now that they fit neatly into your own agenda of getting your own kids out of the house, NOW you're proclaiming that people who are advocating for physical safety first are not good. Nope. It doesn't work that way. You can deflect and deny all you want but the rest of us see through your smoke screen and we know you're full of hot smoke.

Kids who misbehave do so for a reason. Putting them back into an environment where they misbehave is NOT the kind and correct answer. Resolving their issues so that they can attend school without misbehaving is the correct answer. You are a user and a poser; you don't care about the misbehaving kids, you only care that you want your own kids out of your house.

Eck, weak reply. I agree with PP. You're not a good person at all. You're really selfish.

She is selfish because she doesn’t like working with misbehaving kids? Do you think teachers are trained in behavioral modification therapy? You are the one who is selfish if you aren’t getting help for you kid and actively avoiding the problem by passing the buck, and disrupting the whole learning community in the process.

I am actually a parent (the "reframe" poster). Thank you, PP, for coming to my defense. It really doesn't trouble me that some weird person on the internet is calling me selfish, especially given the topic.

My kids - all kids - have a right to be in class without disruptive children causing havoc. My kids are loving DL because the kids who usually misbehave have been sidelined and classes are going much more smoothly.

When schools go back to in-building full-time, I will probably be the first person in the Principal's office, then the Superintendent's office and finally in front of the School Board advocating for those misbehaving kids to be sidelined from in-building school. If they can't behave then out they go.

It has been eye-opening to listen to my kids describe how much better it is now that the misbehavers aren't in class and taking attention away from the kids who really way to learn. I will continue to advocate that the misbehaving kids no longer be given the power to take away education time from the rest of their class. If we have learned anything from DL it is that teachers can really teach when they don't have to spend their time managing the behavior of the bad few.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And 40% of teachers don’t want to go back. The questionnaire was flawed. If you didn’t have any reason preventing you from returning (health issue yourself, in your family, or child care concern) then the only option was “I want to go back”. There was no “I don’t feel safe but I am not at risk or have childcare concerns”.

I think this goes back to the essential workers debate. Teachers *should* be essential workers, and therefore this questionnaire makes complete sense. And if childcare concerns is a reason, that's pretty impressive. Most essential workers with students learning from home for the past several months probably didn't have that same option.

Teachers with childcare concerns were not authorized to stay home they were given resources for taking leave after using up personal days.

LOL “resources for leave = Leave without absence. No pay or benefits. CARES act expired December 31.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And 40% of teachers don’t want to go back. The questionnaire was flawed. If you didn’t have any reason preventing you from returning (health issue yourself, in your family, or child care concern) then the only option was “I want to go back”. There was no “I don’t feel safe but I am not at risk or have childcare concerns”.

I think this goes back to the essential workers debate. Teachers *should* be essential workers, and therefore this questionnaire makes complete sense. And if childcare concerns is a reason, that's pretty impressive. Most essential workers with students learning from home for the past several months probably didn't have that same option.

I’m asking you seriously then: why did nobody EVER declare us essential workers before this. Ever. Anywhere in the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And 40% of teachers don’t want to go back. The questionnaire was flawed. If you didn’t have any reason preventing you from returning (health issue yourself, in your family, or child care concern) then the only option was “I want to go back”. There was no “I don’t feel safe but I am not at risk or have childcare concerns”.

I think this goes back to the essential workers debate. Teachers *should* be essential workers, and therefore this questionnaire makes complete sense. And if childcare concerns is a reason, that's pretty impressive. Most essential workers with students learning from home for the past several months probably didn't have that same option.

DP. As a parent I completely disagree. I don't see why anyone in their right minds thinks that teachers should be essential workers. IMO people like you are crazy for insisting and demanding that teachers are essential. They're not. They're doing a great job with DL and there is no reason for them to risk their lives in the classrooms right now when DL is working. I get it that it might not be working for you but honestly that isn't my worry or problem. For everyone else I know, we are all very happy with DL and I'm not about to demand that teachers go back to school and risk their health to do it.

If schools are doing such a great job with DL, why are failing rates climbing? Even if the answer is that kids aren’t doing the work, that’s an indication that schools are failing to engage those students.

As far as I can tell the kids who don't normally do work are still not doing work. My kids are doing their work and they are not failing because I am making sure that they are doing their work and not failing. That is the responsibility of each parent. It seems to me that schools with rising failure rates need to start educating parents on what and how they're supposed to be helping/monitoring/supporting their kids regardless of the learning mode.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it just me, or are others getting the sense that many teachers will battle returning to class even if we had every safety measure in place. Feels like it will never be enough.

That’s my sense too. If we don’t get schools reopened this year, I expect teachers will fight for them to remain closed next year too.

Why though?? Is it because they are too comfortable WFH? I just can't figure out why so many teachers are making the return extremely difficult.

I think it’s a bunch of factors. Yes, working from home is a lot more comfortable. There are far fewer disciplinary issues and behavioral management issues that come with 100% DL. It’s like having all the bad/disruptive kids out of your class and just the calm, compliant ones. With the standards so far relaxed for this year to the point where there’s basically no accountability to prove the students are actually learning anything, it’s easy to rely on the continued closures/all DL as a convenient crutch. Say “it’s not safe” but really you don’t care if it’s safe or not because distance learning is working for some teachers and they’ll fight tooth and nail to hang onto it.

Then there are some who are really paranoid about the virus. Maybe they’re actually high risk, maybe they’re not.

Then there are some who don’t want to make any changes that might be required if they go into schools. These are the ones who are traveling, seeing friends, and/or relying on older people in their lives for child care. With more exposure in the schools, they’d have to make lifestyle changes as a result and they just don’t want to do that.

This is awful. Especially point #1.

My kids are loving school without the behavior problems. I cannot tell you how happy they are that all the bad kids are sidelined. It is like a totally diffferent experience for them without having their classes constantly disrupted by some random kid who is acting out.

Every time I read a comment like this, I become that much more committed to advocating for schools to reopen. You’re not a good person, and I’m not going to cater to the worst of our community. And no, I don’t have one of “those kids,” I’m just not a rank asshole.

Let me reframe your statement: You want to reopen schools at the height of a pandemic because you want misbehaving kids in school INSTEAD OF addressing the reasons why the kid is misbehaving? Really? You really think the best choice is to put kids and teachers in an environment where they have an increased chance of catching the virus within their communities? Wow.

I am happy that the kids who misbehaved before DL are now not misbehaving with DL. That seems like something we should all be happy about. Instead you want the kids who were misbehaving BEFORE we went to DL and now you want to throw them back into a germ bowl along with their teachers and I am the one who is not a good person? Huh.

You were silent before the virus on the misbehaving kids; you didn't care about them at all. However now that they fit neatly into your own agenda of getting your own kids out of the house, NOW you're proclaiming that people who are advocating for physical safety first are not good. Nope. It doesn't work that way. You can deflect and deny all you want but the rest of us see through your smoke screen and we know you're full of hot smoke.

Kids who misbehave do so for a reason. Putting them back into an environment where they misbehave is NOT the kind and correct answer. Resolving their issues so that they can attend school without misbehaving is the correct answer. You are a user and a poser; you don't care about the misbehaving kids, you only care that you want your own kids out of your house.

Eck, weak reply. I agree with PP. You're not a good person at all. You're really selfish.

She is selfish because she doesn’t like working with misbehaving kids? Do you think teachers are trained in behavioral modification therapy? You are the one who is selfish if you aren’t getting help for you kid and actively avoiding the problem by passing the buck, and disrupting the whole learning community in the process.

I am actually a parent (the "reframe" poster). Thank you, PP, for coming to my defense. It really doesn't trouble me that some weird person on the internet is calling me selfish, especially given the topic.

My kids - all kids - have a right to be in class without disruptive children causing havoc. My kids are loving DL because the kids who usually misbehave have been sidelined and classes are going much more smoothly.

When schools go back to in-building full-time, I will probably be the first person in the Principal's office, then the Superintendent's office and finally in front of the School Board advocating for those misbehaving kids to be sidelined from in-building school. If they can't behave then out they go.

It has been eye-opening to listen to my kids describe how much better it is now that the misbehavers aren't in class and taking attention away from the kids who really way to learn. I will continue to advocate that the misbehaving kids no longer be given the power to take away education time from the rest of their class. If we have learned anything from DL it is that teachers can really teach when they don't have to spend their time managing the behavior of the bad few.

So basically you want to be in a private school where kids with special needs get kicked out so Larla doesn’t have to learn to cope with people who are different from her. Maybe we should also go back to institutionalizing people with intellectual disabilities so you don’t have to deal with them bagging your groceries.

[Anonymous]

Yes. The “more d’s and f’s” are the kids who were always cuspers. The kids who normally don’t do work can get away with not doing it because they can escape us . They don’t accept the breakout room invite or they leave the meet when we try to talk to them. Don’t check email, don’t answer phone, avoidance is easy. Those are the kids I would HOUND at school and call their coach to say they needed to get me an assignment before practice. *I* got them to a D/C and I can’t do that right now.

It isn’t A,B,c kids failing more suddenly. They’re still trying. It’s kids who teachers always “fixed” to pass and now we have literally nothing at our disposal that works do essentially pull them over that line against their will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And 40% of teachers don’t want to go back. The questionnaire was flawed. If you didn’t have any reason preventing you from returning (health issue yourself, in your family, or child care concern) then the only option was “I want to go back”. There was no “I don’t feel safe but I am not at risk or have childcare concerns”.

I think this goes back to the essential workers debate. Teachers *should* be essential workers, and therefore this questionnaire makes complete sense. And if childcare concerns is a reason, that's pretty impressive. Most essential workers with students learning from home for the past several months probably didn't have that same option.

DP. As a parent I completely disagree. I don't see why anyone in their right minds thinks that teachers should be essential workers. IMO people like you are crazy for insisting and demanding that teachers are essential. They're not. They're doing a great job with DL and there is no reason for them to risk their lives in the classrooms right now when DL is working. I get it that it might not be working for you but honestly that isn't my worry or problem. For everyone else I know, we are all very happy with DL and I'm not about to demand that teachers go back to school and risk their health to do it.

If schools are doing such a great job with DL, why are failing rates climbing? Even if the answer is that kids aren’t doing the work, that’s an indication that schools are failing to engage those students.

As far as I can tell the kids who don't normally do work are still not doing work. My kids are doing their work and they are not failing because I am making sure that they are doing their work and not failing. That is the responsibility of each parent. It seems to me that schools with rising failure rates need to start educating parents on what and how they're supposed to be helping/monitoring/supporting their kids regardless of the learning mode.

So really it’s the parents who are doing well with DL, not the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. The “more d’s and f’s” are the kids who were always cuspers. The kids who normally don’t do work can get away with not doing it because they can escape us . They don’t accept the breakout room invite or they leave the meet when we try to talk to them. Don’t check email, don’t answer phone, avoidance is easy. Those are the kids I would HOUND at school and call their coach to say they needed to get me an assignment before practice. *I* got them to a D/C and I can’t do that right now.

It isn’t A,B,c kids failing more suddenly. They’re still trying. It’s kids who teachers always “fixed” to pass and now we have literally nothing at our disposal that works do essentially pull them over that line against their will.

Oh and to be clear - most of my kids who fit this description chose DL for second semester. A couple who are like this chose hybrid. We will see how it helps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And 40% of teachers don’t want to go back. The questionnaire was flawed. If you didn’t have any reason preventing you from returning (health issue yourself, in your family, or child care concern) then the only option was “I want to go back”. There was no “I don’t feel safe but I am not at risk or have childcare concerns”.

I think this goes back to the essential workers debate. Teachers *should* be essential workers, and therefore this questionnaire makes complete sense. And if childcare concerns is a reason, that's pretty impressive. Most essential workers with students learning from home for the past several months probably didn't have that same option.

DP. As a parent I completely disagree. I don't see why anyone in their right minds thinks that teachers should be essential workers. IMO people like you are crazy for insisting and demanding that teachers are essential. They're not. They're doing a great job with DL and there is no reason for them to risk their lives in the classrooms right now when DL is working. I get it that it might not be working for you but honestly that isn't my worry or problem. For everyone else I know, we are all very happy with DL and I'm not about to demand that teachers go back to school and risk their health to do it.

If schools are doing such a great job with DL, why are failing rates climbing? Even if the answer is that kids aren’t doing the work, that’s an indication that schools are failing to engage those students.

As far as I can tell the kids who don't normally do work are still not doing work. My kids are doing their work and they are not failing because I am making sure that they are doing their work and not failing. That is the responsibility of each parent. It seems to me that schools with rising failure rates need to start educating parents on what and how they're supposed to be helping/monitoring/supporting their kids regardless of the learning mode.

So really it’s the parents who are doing well with DL, not the schools.

DP. That is a discredit to the kids working their a*s off right now. Don’t do that to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And 40% of teachers don’t want to go back. The questionnaire was flawed. If you didn’t have any reason preventing you from returning (health issue yourself, in your family, or child care concern) then the only option was “I want to go back”. There was no “I don’t feel safe but I am not at risk or have childcare concerns”.

I think this goes back to the essential workers debate. Teachers *should* be essential workers, and therefore this questionnaire makes complete sense. And if childcare concerns is a reason, that's pretty impressive. Most essential workers with students learning from home for the past several months probably didn't have that same option.

I’m asking you seriously then: why did nobody EVER declare us essential workers before this. Ever. Anywhere in the country.

Because we are not! Essential employees are there to maintain life. Health, food, water, safety, etc. Contrary to what some people say here, school doesn't keep you alive on a daily basis - you can live without it. Children who have survived floods, hurricanes, and war didn't die after missing 4 day, weeks or months of school. If it were truly essential to life, we would be in school over the summer and on the weekend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. The “more d’s and f’s” are the kids who were always cuspers. The kids who normally don’t do work can get away with not doing it because they can escape us . They don’t accept the breakout room invite or they leave the meet when we try to talk to them. Don’t check email, don’t answer phone, avoidance is easy. Those are the kids I would HOUND at school and call their coach to say they needed to get me an assignment before practice. *I* got them to a D/C and I can’t do that right now.

It isn’t A,B,c kids failing more suddenly. They’re still trying. It’s kids who teachers always “fixed” to pass and now we have literally nothing at our disposal that works do essentially pull them over that line against their will.

That is a great description of what is going on - exactly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And 40% of teachers don’t want to go back. The questionnaire was flawed. If you didn’t have any reason preventing you from returning (health issue yourself, in your family, or child care concern) then the only option was “I want to go back”. There was no “I don’t feel safe but I am not at risk or have childcare concerns”.

I think this goes back to the essential workers debate. Teachers *should* be essential workers, and therefore this questionnaire makes complete sense. And if childcare concerns is a reason, that's pretty impressive. Most essential workers with students learning from home for the past several months probably didn't have that same option.

DP. As a parent I completely disagree. I don't see why anyone in their right minds thinks that teachers should be essential workers. IMO people like you are crazy for insisting and demanding that teachers are essential. They're not. They're doing a great job with DL and there is no reason for them to risk their lives in the classrooms right now when DL is working. I get it that it might not be working for you but honestly that isn't my worry or problem. For everyone else I know, we are all very happy with DL and I'm not about to demand that teachers go back to school and risk their health to do it.

If schools are doing such a great job with DL, why are failing rates climbing? Even if the answer is that kids aren’t doing the work, that’s an indication that schools are failing to engage those students.

As far as I can tell the kids who don't normally do work are still not doing work. My kids are doing their work and they are not failing because I am making sure that they are doing their work and not failing. That is the responsibility of each parent. It seems to me that schools with rising failure rates need to start educating parents on what and how they're supposed to be helping/monitoring/supporting their kids regardless of the learning mode.

So really it’s the parents who are doing well with DL, not the schools.

DP. That is a discredit to the kids working their a*s off right now. Don’t do that to them.

That’s still not credit due to the schools. At a certain point, if success or failure is on just the students and parents, why not send home a bunch of workbooks and have everyone homeschool?

I won’t say DL has been an abject failure for everyone, it’s working well enough for some. But to say DL is a success is imply false unless you’re saying that anyone who isn’t thriving doesn’t matter. If that’s your mindset, I don’t think we’ll ever be on the same page.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And 40% of teachers don’t want to go back. The questionnaire was flawed. If you didn’t have any reason preventing you from returning (health issue yourself, in your family, or child care concern) then the only option was “I want to go back”. There was no “I don’t feel safe but I am not at risk or have childcare concerns”.

I think this goes back to the essential workers debate. Teachers *should* be essential workers, and therefore this questionnaire makes complete sense. And if childcare concerns is a reason, that's pretty impressive. Most essential workers with students learning from home for the past several months probably didn't have that same option.

I’m asking you seriously then: why did nobody EVER declare us essential workers before this. Ever. Anywhere in the country.

Because we are not! Essential employees are there to maintain life. Health, food, water, safety, etc. Contrary to what some people say here, school doesn't keep you alive on a daily basis - you can live without it. Children who have survived floods, hurricanes, and war didn't die after missing 4 day, weeks or months of school. If it were truly essential to life, we would be in school over the summer and on the weekend.

If education isn’t essential, then perhaps government should get out of the business of providing it. People go can afford to pay for private school will do so, the rest are on their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And 40% of teachers don’t want to go back. The questionnaire was flawed. If you didn’t have any reason preventing you from returning (health issue yourself, in your family, or child care concern) then the only option was “I want to go back”. There was no “I don’t feel safe but I am not at risk or have childcare concerns”.

I think this goes back to the essential workers debate. Teachers *should* be essential workers, and therefore this questionnaire makes complete sense. And if childcare concerns is a reason, that's pretty impressive. Most essential workers with students learning from home for the past several months probably didn't have that same option.

I’m asking you seriously then: why did nobody EVER declare us essential workers before this. Ever. Anywhere in the country.

Because we are not! Essential employees are there to maintain life. Health, food, water, safety, etc. Contrary to what some people say here, school doesn't keep you alive on a daily basis - you can live without it. Children who have survived floods, hurricanes, and war didn't die after missing 4 day, weeks or months of school. If it were truly essential to life, we would be in school over the summer and on the weekend.

If education isn’t essential, then perhaps government should get out of the business of providing it. People go can afford to pay for private school will do so, the rest are on their own.

Well healthcare is essential and the government is only partially involved in that. The government is kind of messed up.