Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP is basically the same as Gen Ed. except the math is accelerated and they will have a few more in-depth projects (which the parents usually do for the kids anyway), so where the heck this idea that it is for kids that "learn differently" comes from is beyond me.

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Actually, AAP means very few kids who typically slow the class down due to 'not getting it' are in DCs class. It means...the teacher can teach to more than just the SOLs. It means...a lot! I think FCPS changed the name to side-step the mainstreamed classroom, which is vastly different from my 1970s elementary school days. Demographics of FCPS are drastically different than what it once was. In order to mainstream everyone, FCPS realized that the Gen. ed was going to change because of the change in student population and created AAP (GT). IME, today's AAP is quite similar to my Gen. ed experience as a kid. The reasons so many parents are hyper over AAP is because they realize this and want their DC to have the best possible free education, and not one that has too wide of a learning gap. Have you been in a Gen. ed class lately? There are some schools where 5 out of 26 students don't speak English (in 4th grade). You don't find this in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not know of any FCPS student/child that won the State or National Geo Bee, Spelling Bee or Math Olympiad that did not do "test prep" NONE is 3 decades.

Those who left the prize to their immutable and innate intelligence never got out of the classroom round.

Same for music.

The examples cited here are all situations that involve learning subject matter. These situations are not at all a good analogy to the tests being discussed here. Fairfax County Schools tests first and second graders with the goal of seeing how students learn and then using those results in the classroom to best meet a child's learning needs.

The company that produces the CogAT provides a site where teachers and parents can read about how a child learns and what teaching strategies are likely to work best with a child of a particular learning profile. Here's the link: http://riversidepublishing.com/products/group/cogat6/input.jsp The profiles here give a lot of information about how a child learns and how to best help that child learn and achieve more.

Parents will not be able to learn anything about how their own child learns new material if the parent has been "prepping" the child for this specific test. The point of this assessment is to learn more about how the child learns. That reason for the test is short-circuited by practicing the questions ahead of time. The false result will give the parents and teachers no real information on how to help the child learn because it is not a real reflection of the child's strengths and weaknesses.

The idea that the AAP is some sort of a prize won by obtaining a high score is patently false. Some people apparently find this difficult to believe, but FCPS actually just wants to provide the best education they can for each individual child. They cannot do that if the test results are unreliable.

It is possible that the reason so many parents are disappointed by the AAP is that the program is not necessarily a good fit for every child. A child will achieve the most in a classroom that best suits his needs and abilities. The Advanced Academics Program is not some separate educational tier where some kids are given a "better" education that is somehow denied to all others. It is a great education for those whose needs it suits, but not so great for those for whom it is not a good fit. The regular classrooms and their teachers in FCPS provide a great education that suits the needs of many, many children. Teachers use lots of different teaching techniques and strategies that can vary from class to class and year to year depending on the individual students.

Everybody wants what is best for their own children. These second grade tests can best help the parents and teachers know how to really help their children and students learn and achieve when they give true insight into how students learn. These tests are not the end-all and be-all by any means, but they are a helpful aid when used correctly.

Ah. Now I see whre you've gone wrong. That is exactly what AAP is. Otherwise your brilliant and obviously superior child could be stuck with the hoi polloi back in a Gen. Ed. class and be disadvantaged thereby for the rest of his or her life.

You have completely missed the point. Even the hoi polloi get a good education for free in FCPS.

the teachers, facilities and curriculum may be good - that doesn't mean the students are going to study hard and learn anything. You find more of these type kids in Gen. Ed. unfortunately. That is why parents tell me they want their kids in AAP, so not as to be stuck with these underperformers.

Guess what? When everyone and their mother is in the AAP, there are lots of under performers there, also. Little Sally and Johnny who have been prepped and prepped to get a certain score on the test aren't necessarily keeping up in class when Mom and Dad aren't there with them. They might turn in great homework assignments, but during the day at school it can be a different story. At least in a regular classroom, the teaching would be a better fit for their learning needs.

I have to admit I saw a fair amount of this in DC's AAP classes over the years. Don't necessarily blame it on test prepping though. More on pushy parents who would not take no for an answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP is basically the same as Gen Ed. except the math is accelerated and they will have a few more in-depth projects (which the parents usually do for the kids anyway), so where the heck this idea that it is for kids that "learn differently" comes from is beyond me.

-------------
Actually, AAP means very few kids who typically slow the class down due to 'not getting it' are in DCs class. It means...the teacher can teach to more than just the SOLs. It means...a lot! I think FCPS changed the name to side-step the mainstreamed classroom, which is vastly different from my 1970s elementary school days. Demographics of FCPS are drastically different than what it once was. In order to mainstream everyone, FCPS realized that the Gen. ed was going to change because of the change in student population and created AAP (GT). IME, today's AAP is quite similar to my Gen. ed experience as a kid. The reasons so many parents are hyper over AAP is because they realize this and want their DC to have the best possible free education, and not one that has too wide of a learning gap. Have you been in a Gen. ed class lately? There are some schools where 5 out of 26 students don't speak English (in 4th grade). You don't find this in AAP.

agree with this completely. Sad but true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Most of us are not bitter and distrustful of anyone outside our own families. Most of us are not paranoid that the educational system is trying to keep our children out of some special program.

I agree, but many of use are not stupid or bitter enough to leave the education of our children solely in the hands of FCPS, a lacrosse stick, video games and a daily calendar filled with play dates. We prefer to prepare our children for life and the world they are about to enter.

First of all, what's with the weird obsession with lacrosse? It keeps getting mentioned here.

Second, if you would like to prepare your children for life and the world they are about to enter, I would highly suggest involvement in some sort of team sport. Any sport will do, it doesn't have to be lacrosse (which I get is someone's idea of code for the "entitled").

Life is about knowing how to work with and as a team. It is not about hiding in your house, doing anything you can to have an advantage over other kids, worried that some other kid will sneak in and steal your "prize." Life is about working together, "going the distance", passing the ball to someone else when necessary and being in the right place to have the ball passed back to you when necessary.

A child will learn many more worthwhile lessons about how to lead a good life from being a valuable member of a team than he or she will ever learn from practicing the same sets of test questions over and over. Adults spend most of their adult working lives needing to work in some kind of a team situation and they will greatly benefit from learning how to work with others early in life. Team sports are a great place to learn these lessons.

[Anonymous]

PP: +1. There are reasons why most leaders in industry are extroverts. I can not make much of a difference. But working together WE can make a huge difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Be back in a minute. Just have to pop the popcorn.

I hope poster from the first page had enough popcorn for this show

[Anonymous]

Re: lacrosse. It's a proxy for obscure sports practiced by rich kids who go to private schools.

David Brooks mentioned this in The Social Animal (how these kids are really good at obscure sports).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most of us are not bitter and distrustful of anyone outside our own families. Most of us are not paranoid that the educational system is trying to keep our children out of some special program.

I agree, but many of use are not stupid or bitter enough to leave the education of our children solely in the hands of FCPS, a lacrosse stick, video games and a daily calendar filled with play dates. We prefer to prepare our children for life and the world they are about to enter.

First of all, what's with the weird obsession with lacrosse? It keeps getting mentioned here.

Second, if you would like to prepare your children for life and the world they are about to enter, I would highly suggest involvement in some sort of team sport. Any sport will do, it doesn't have to be lacrosse (which I get is someone's idea of code for the "entitled").

Life is about knowing how to work with and as a team. It is not about hiding in your house, doing anything you can to have an advantage over other kids, worried that some other kid will sneak in and steal your "prize." Life is about working together, "going the distance", passing the ball to someone else when necessary and being in the right place to have the ball passed back to you when necessary.

A child will learn many more worthwhile lessons about how to lead a good life from being a valuable member of a team than he or she will ever learn from practicing the same sets of test questions over and over. Adults spend most of their adult working lives needing to work in some kind of a team situation and they will greatly benefit from learning how to work with others early in life. Team sports are a great place to learn these lessons.

You're not Asian, are you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think FCPS will eventually drop this testing cycle and drop the AAP too because of how ridiculous this whole process has become.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The advantages of being able to afford tutors is an entirely different issue than prepping for the CogAT. Anyone can come up with $50 for a practice test. If you think it will make a huge difference in your child's life, you make the necessary sacrifices. Regarding tutors, do you think parents who can afford to give their kids a better education by using tutors should not do it to level the playing field? Also, the pp just mentioned average kids. Maybe you are the biggot by assuming there are no average kids in high SES neighborhoods.

Since when does one require $50 to "test prep"? As a parent I do a great job of test prepping all my kids. This education did not cost my children a dime.

Test prep is more than spending $50 dollars on test materials sold by a company. Your worldview is extremely myopic if you use a restrictive definition. Perhaps, the restriction eases your conscious since you can claim you did not purchase a "test Prep" manual from someone for $50 but hired tutors and enrichment course while you played games and puzzles with your kids using polygons and a variety of convex and concave shaped objects.

Its all "test prep" dearie.

Okay, dearie.

[Anonymous]

All we need is a hitler reference....

[Anonymous]

There might be borderline kids pushed in here and there, but the best part of AAP is that the classes are composed of top 20-30% kids.
Kids learn from each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There might be borderline kids pushed in here and there, but the best part of AAP is that the classes are composed of top 20-30% kids.
Kids learn from each other.

yes but is this the top 20-30% naturally or the top 20-30% prepped? Some around here think there is a big difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There might be borderline kids pushed in here and there, but the best part of AAP is that the classes are composed of top 20-30% kids.
Kids learn from each other.

yes but is this the top 20-30% naturally or the top 20-30% prepped? Some around here think there is a big difference.

That's why I said that "there might be borderline kids pushed in here and there".
I guess mostly naturally, but some prepped borderline or below kids.

[Anonymous]

A prepped/pushed borderline kid will do fine in AAP. You are not going to prep 40% to 99%. You might prep 50% to 80% at best. 80% with low GBRS might struggle, but would not be admitted. 80% with good gbrs will do fine.

The system works. The impact of cogat prepping is minimized by the gbrs.