Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not know of any FCPS student/child that won the State or National Geo Bee, Spelling Bee or Math Olympiad that did not do "test prep" NONE is 3 decades.

Those who left the prize to their immutable and innate intelligence never got out of the classroom round.

Same for music.

The examples cited here are all situations that involve learning subject matter. These situations are not at all a good analogy to the tests being discussed here. Fairfax County Schools tests first and second graders with the goal of seeing how students learn and then using those results in the classroom to best meet a child's learning needs.

The company that produces the CogAT provides a site where teachers and parents can read about how a child learns and what teaching strategies are likely to work best with a child of a particular learning profile. Here's the link: http://riversidepublishing.com/products/group/cogat6/input.jsp The profiles here give a lot of information about how a child learns and how to best help that child learn and achieve more.

Parents will not be able to learn anything about how their own child learns new material if the parent has been "prepping" the child for this specific test. The point of this assessment is to learn more about how the child learns. That reason for the test is short-circuited by practicing the questions ahead of time. The false result will give the parents and teachers no real information on how to help the child learn because it is not a real reflection of the child's strengths and weaknesses.

The idea that the AAP is some sort of a prize won by obtaining a high score is patently false. Some people apparently find this difficult to believe, but FCPS actually just wants to provide the best education they can for each individual child. They cannot do that if the test results are unreliable.

It is possible that the reason so many parents are disappointed by the AAP is that the program is not necessarily a good fit for every child. A child will achieve the most in a classroom that best suits his needs and abilities. The Advanced Academics Program is not some separate educational tier where some kids are given a "better" education that is somehow denied to all others. It is a great education for those whose needs it suits, but not so great for those for whom it is not a good fit. The regular classrooms and their teachers in FCPS provide a great education that suits the needs of many, many children. Teachers use lots of different teaching techniques and strategies that can vary from class to class and year to year depending on the individual students.

Everybody wants what is best for their own children. These second grade tests can best help the parents and teachers know how to really help their children and students learn and achieve when they give true insight into how students learn. These tests are not the end-all and be-all by any means, but they are a helpful aid when used correctly.

Ah. Now I see whre you've gone wrong. That is exactly what AAP is. Otherwise your brilliant and obviously superior child could be stuck with the hoi polloi back in a Gen. Ed. class and be disadvantaged thereby for the rest of his or her life.

You have completely missed the point. Even the hoi polloi get a good education for free in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Everybody wants what is best for their own children. [b]These second grade tests can best help the parents and teachers know how to really help their children and students learn and achieve when they give true insight into how students learn. These tests are not the end-all and be-all by any means, but they are a helpful aid when used correctly.[/b]

Absolutely and patently false. FCPS uses AAP to label, triage and assign Fairfax County children into tracks. The economics of supply and demand (and outcome) explain why most parents would prefer the AAP track for their kids. And if our kids qualify and get in most of us will choose this track.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, I think FCPS will eventually drop this testing cycle and drop the AAP too because of how ridiculous this whole process has become.

[Anonymous]

AAP is basically the same as Gen Ed. except the math is accelerated and they will have a few more in-depth projects (which the parents usually do for the kids anyway), so where the heck this idea that it is for kids that "learn differently" comes from is beyond me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everybody wants what is best for their own children. [b]These second grade tests can best help the parents and teachers know how to really help their children and students learn and achieve when they give true insight into how students learn. These tests are not the end-all and be-all by any means, but they are a helpful aid when used correctly.

Absolutely and patently false. FCPS uses AAP to label, triage and assign Fairfax County children into tracks. The economics of supply and demand (and outcome) explain why most parents would prefer the AAP track for their kids. And if our kids qualify and get in most of us will choose this track.

No, sorry, that is not what happens at all. How much time do you actually spend in a school observing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP is basically the same as Gen Ed. except the math is accelerated and they will have a few more in-depth projects (which the parents usually do for the kids anyway), so where the heck this idea that it is for kids that "learn differently" comes from is beyond me.

It is possible that the reason so many parents are disappointed by the AAP is that the program is not necessarily a good fit for every child. A child will achieve the most in a classroom that best suits his needs and abilities. The Advanced Academics Program is not some separate educational tier where some kids are given a "better" education that is somehow denied to all others. It is a great education for those whose needs it suits, but not so great for those for whom it is not a good fit. The regular classrooms and their teachers in FCPS provide a great education that suits the needs of many, many children. Teachers use lots of different teaching techniques and strategies that can vary from class to class and year to year depending on the individual students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not know of any FCPS student/child that won the State or National Geo Bee, Spelling Bee or Math Olympiad that did not do "test prep" NONE is 3 decades.

Those who left the prize to their immutable and innate intelligence never got out of the classroom round.

Same for music.

The examples cited here are all situations that involve learning subject matter. These situations are not at all a good analogy to the tests being discussed here. Fairfax County Schools tests first and second graders with the goal of seeing how students learn and then using those results in the classroom to best meet a child's learning needs.

The company that produces the CogAT provides a site where teachers and parents can read about how a child learns and what teaching strategies are likely to work best with a child of a particular learning profile. Here's the link: http://riversidepublishing.com/products/group/cogat6/input.jsp The profiles here give a lot of information about how a child learns and how to best help that child learn and achieve more.

Parents will not be able to learn anything about how their own child learns new material if the parent has been "prepping" the child for this specific test. The point of this assessment is to learn more about how the child learns. That reason for the test is short-circuited by practicing the questions ahead of time. The false result will give the parents and teachers no real information on how to help the child learn because it is not a real reflection of the child's strengths and weaknesses.

The idea that the AAP is some sort of a prize won by obtaining a high score is patently false. Some people apparently find this difficult to believe, but FCPS actually just wants to provide the best education they can for each individual child. They cannot do that if the test results are unreliable.

It is possible that the reason so many parents are disappointed by the AAP is that the program is not necessarily a good fit for every child. A child will achieve the most in a classroom that best suits his needs and abilities. The Advanced Academics Program is not some separate educational tier where some kids are given a "better" education that is somehow denied to all others. It is a great education for those whose needs it suits, but not so great for those for whom it is not a good fit. The regular classrooms and their teachers in FCPS provide a great education that suits the needs of many, many children. Teachers use lots of different teaching techniques and strategies that can vary from class to class and year to year depending on the individual students.

Everybody wants what is best for their own children. These second grade tests can best help the parents and teachers know how to really help their children and students learn and achieve when they give true insight into how students learn. These tests are not the end-all and be-all by any means, but they are a helpful aid when used correctly.

Ah. Now I see whre you've gone wrong. That is exactly what AAP is. Otherwise your brilliant and obviously superior child could be stuck with the hoi polloi back in a Gen. Ed. class and be disadvantaged thereby for the rest of his or her life.

You have completely missed the point. Even the hoi polloi get a good education for free in FCPS.

the teachers, facilities and curriculum may be good - that doesn't mean the students are going to study hard and learn anything. You find more of these type kids in Gen. Ed. unfortunately. That is why parents tell me they want their kids in AAP, so not as to be stuck with these underperformers.

[Anonymous]

Most of us are not bitter and distrustful of anyone outside our own families. Most of us are not paranoid that the educational system is trying to keep our children out of some special program.

I agree, but many of use are not stupid or bitter enough to leave the education of our children solely in the hands of FCPS, a lacrosse stick, video games and a daily calendar filled with play dates. We prefer to prepare our children for life and the world they are about to enter.

[Anonymous]

In my DD's class,at one of the top AAP centers, there are a handful of brilliant kids, and the remaining being bright kids. The thing is, the bright kids are not holding the geniuses back. What AAP does, though, is it allows the teachers to let the students learn on their own (more or less), semi-independently. That benefits the 5 kids, and the other 20 kids can handle it. The teacher is more managing the classroom than teaching.

In a general ed class, the teacher needs to teach. They are all judged based on how the students do on the SOL's. It is easier to teach the bright kids.

I think, that in a lot of cases, for anything but the most brilliant, the general education philosophy works better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can see the dichotomy in the posts reflect somes opinion that the CogAT matters in some way. There is no question that study for spelling tests, math tests, SATs, college exams, etc help, as the tests are measuring specific knowledge. The only use of the CogAT in FCPS (from what I can tell) is AAP. But, it is one of several factors. A good CogAT (96-98) with an 8 GBRS will not get the child into AAP. In contrast an 82% CogAT with a good GBRS (14+) will get the child in.

The reason is the FCPS has devalued testing because of the test prep. It is used to identify kids to screen for AAP, but any child can be parentally referred. If you feel the need to prep through the prep classes, and you think the child is worthy of AAP, spend the money on IQ test, like the WISC. A WISC of 130+ will get the child into AAP regardless of GBRS.

I wondered how long it would take for the WISC tout to come out of the woodwork.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, I think FCPS will eventually drop this testing cycle and drop the AAP too because of how ridiculous this whole process has become.

Great. No problem. I'm sure many are capable of dealing with any surrogate taking its place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everybody wants what is best for their own children. [b]These second grade tests can best help the parents and teachers know how to really help their children and students learn and achieve when they give true insight into how students learn. These tests are not the end-all and be-all by any means, but they are a helpful aid when used correctly.[/b]

Absolutely and patently false. FCPS uses AAP to label, triage and assign Fairfax County children into tracks. The economics of supply and demand (and outcome) explain why most parents would prefer the AAP track for their kids. And if our kids qualify and get in most of us will choose this track.

If that were the approach, them FCPS would be failing under NCLB. All kids are supposed to pass. The is FCPS's metric. Therefore, if they are ignoring the non-AAP students, and the kids don't pass the SOL, then the school and county is punished.

You are patently wrong on this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not know of any FCPS student/child that won the State or National Geo Bee, Spelling Bee or Math Olympiad that did not do "test prep" NONE is 3 decades.

Those who left the prize to their immutable and innate intelligence never got out of the classroom round.

Same for music.

The examples cited here are all situations that involve learning subject matter. These situations are not at all a good analogy to the tests being discussed here. Fairfax County Schools tests first and second graders with the goal of seeing how students learn and then using those results in the classroom to best meet a child's learning needs.

The company that produces the CogAT provides a site where teachers and parents can read about how a child learns and what teaching strategies are likely to work best with a child of a particular learning profile. Here's the link: http://riversidepublishing.com/products/group/cogat6/input.jsp The profiles here give a lot of information about how a child learns and how to best help that child learn and achieve more.

Parents will not be able to learn anything about how their own child learns new material if the parent has been "prepping" the child for this specific test. The point of this assessment is to learn more about how the child learns. That reason for the test is short-circuited by practicing the questions ahead of time. The false result will give the parents and teachers no real information on how to help the child learn because it is not a real reflection of the child's strengths and weaknesses.

The idea that the AAP is some sort of a prize won by obtaining a high score is patently false. Some people apparently find this difficult to believe, but FCPS actually just wants to provide the best education they can for each individual child. They cannot do that if the test results are unreliable.

It is possible that the reason so many parents are disappointed by the AAP is that the program is not necessarily a good fit for every child. A child will achieve the most in a classroom that best suits his needs and abilities. The Advanced Academics Program is not some separate educational tier where some kids are given a "better" education that is somehow denied to all others. It is a great education for those whose needs it suits, but not so great for those for whom it is not a good fit. The regular classrooms and their teachers in FCPS provide a great education that suits the needs of many, many children. Teachers use lots of different teaching techniques and strategies that can vary from class to class and year to year depending on the individual students.

Everybody wants what is best for their own children. These second grade tests can best help the parents and teachers know how to really help their children and students learn and achieve when they give true insight into how students learn. These tests are not the end-all and be-all by any means, but they are a helpful aid when used correctly.

Ah. Now I see whre you've gone wrong. That is exactly what AAP is. Otherwise your brilliant and obviously superior child could be stuck with the hoi polloi back in a Gen. Ed. class and be disadvantaged thereby for the rest of his or her life.

You have completely missed the point. Even the hoi polloi get a good education for free in FCPS.

the teachers, facilities and curriculum may be good - that doesn't mean the students are going to study hard and learn anything. You find more of these type kids in Gen. Ed. unfortunately. That is why parents tell me they want their kids in AAP, so not as to be stuck with these underperformers.

Guess what? When everyone and their mother is in the AAP, there are lots of under performers there, also. Little Sally and Johnny who have been prepped and prepped to get a certain score on the test aren't necessarily keeping up in class when Mom and Dad aren't there with them. They might turn in great homework assignments, but during the day at school it can be a different story. At least in a regular classroom, the teaching would be a better fit for their learning needs.

[Anonymous]

I can see the dichotomy in the posts reflect somes opinion that the CogAT matters in some way. There is no question that study for spelling tests, math tests, SATs, college exams, etc help, as the tests are measuring specific knowledge. The only use of the CogAT in FCPS (from what I can tell) is AAP. But, it is one of several factors. A good CogAT (96-98) with an 8 GBRS will not get the child into AAP. In contrast an 82% CogAT with a good GBRS (14+) will get the child in.

The reason is the FCPS has devalued testing because of the test prep. It is used to identify kids to screen for AAP, but any child can be parentally referred. If you feel the need to prep through the prep classes, and you think the child is worthy of AAP, spend the money on IQ test, like the WISC. A WISC of 130+ will get the child into AAP regardless of GBRS.

Some spend money for test prep. Others don not. Test prep is not limited to spending money for a course (Much like SAT prep or ACT prep, AP prep, of History class test prep)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I wondered how long it would take for the WISC tout to come out of the woodwork.

Hey, WISC is a better measure. It is just not practical to administer it to all kids in FCPS.