Lebanon / Israel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread is derailing. Does anyone want to talk about the Israeli - Lebanese situation or just throw insults at one another?

Here are my other questions:

1) There is no precision targeting going on (I have seen this first hand from a friend with family in Lebanon. Why does the media keep referring to “Israel attacks Herbollah” when it’s “Israel attacks Lebanon”

2) how does Israel’s actions make me (a US Jew) safer? Just see all the anger the IdF killing has stirred up on the board

3) how does Israel’s actions bring the hostages home?

Israel has been incredibly precise by every measure and civilian casualties in Lebanon well below the accepted levels used by the US when it goes to war. Obviously, very civilian casualty is tragic. But no, a Hezbollah terrorist group member killed isn’t a civilian.

As for hostages, that’s on Hamas. Why does Israel have to do all the work for everything while the terrorist group Hamas has no accountability. Hamas could have returned hostages on October 8. It didn’t have to execute any of them. But it did. Stop holding Israel to an absurd standard that would never be applied to any other country in the world.

No one believes your Zionist propaganda any longer. Israel has developed quite an appetite for the indiscriminate killing of civilians all over the region. It is hated for good reason, and the leadership of Israel deserves to be detained, tried by international authorities, and punished appropriately. Netanyahu and his henchmen are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

DP

FTR, not a Zionist…just a cafeteria catholic American gal who recognizes that neck of the woods has been a powder keg for hundreds of years. My priority will always be America and our interests…including things like human rights, freedom of religion, democracy, rule of law, etc.

The reality is other Arab nations appreciate the role Israel plays. The civilized nations are covertly supporting Israel. Nobody wants Iran and its terrorist thugs. Nobody.

Lebanon and Gaza need leaders who embrace western values. And Israel needs new leadership as well. I suggest younger Gen X leadership—ideally people who went to Uni in the US or UK. Heck, wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and install 3 women.

The official leaders of Lebanon and Palestine are less of the issue.

The problem is both places have been taken over by Iran proxy groups that are hellbent on destruction.

The Israeli government needs to be voted out and returned to a leftist leadership. Someone like Rabin.

Right.

So root out the terrorists, install new leadership in all 3 countries, and have a zero tolerance policy on religious extremism, militant groups, etc.

People need safety first. That takes enforcement coupled with leadership to implement western values. It will take a couple generations to change hearts and minds. Evolution is hard.

Put yourself in the shoes of a Lebanese citizen. Since you are posting on DCUM I will say you are a professional woman in her 40s with 2 kids. In Lebanon - an extremely cosmopolitan and educated country you would probably be in a similar situation. So let's say you are a doctor working in Beirut. Your parents have retired to an apartment community in the south after the government froze their assets in the bank a few years ago so they could life more frugally. Your parents' apartment has been blown up. You can't get in touch with them. You are frantic. Meanwhile your kids are not in school this week and are watching the news with their friends and getting more and more agitated. In fact, last night your teenage son told you he feels like he needs to do something to defend his country. At the same time you are treating a number of critically ill patients recovering from the pager attacks. Yes, a couple are men in their 30s, but there is also a child and a woman. It's not clear to you these are terrorists. Also, you remember sheltering in the basement of your building during the Civil war in the 80s and the sounds of the explosions on the news make you freeze in PTSD symptoms. You never hated Israel before but they are attacking you and your family NOW. You always admired the US (you've gone to visit your cousin who lives there several times and really enjoyed meeting her friends) but they are supplying the bombs that are attacking you NOW. And your cousin tells you the news media there is reporting that Israel is defending itself against Hezbollah...you are not Hezbollah so you cannot comprehend this is the view. You are scared. You are angry.

Considering all of this can you really not see the danger of what Israel is doing, let alone the inhumanity.

Put yourself in the shoes of an Israeli.

You might not like Bibi, but you live under constant Hezbollah rocket fire. Most of them are intercepted by the Iron Dome but some are not.

You are scared. You are a human being, just like the Lebanese.

Yes. In fact, let's say you are a human with a heart. Hezbollah has agreed to stop the rocket fire when Israel signs a ceasefire with Gaza. So you are pleased that there is a viable option for your government to take that doesn't involve killing or maiming more people that have already been killed in this conflict.

(of course, I would also like to point out that the people from the region where the rockets are being launched had an option to relocate to safety. an option not provided to the Lebanese).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread is derailing. Does anyone want to talk about the Israeli - Lebanese situation or just throw insults at one another?

Here are my other questions:

1) There is no precision targeting going on (I have seen this first hand from a friend with family in Lebanon. Why does the media keep referring to “Israel attacks Herbollah” when it’s “Israel attacks Lebanon”

2) how does Israel’s actions make me (a US Jew) safer? Just see all the anger the IdF killing has stirred up on the board

3) how does Israel’s actions bring the hostages home?

Israel has been incredibly precise by every measure and civilian casualties in Lebanon well below the accepted levels used by the US when it goes to war. Obviously, very civilian casualty is tragic. But no, a Hezbollah terrorist group member killed isn’t a civilian.

As for hostages, that’s on Hamas. Why does Israel have to do all the work for everything while the terrorist group Hamas has no accountability. Hamas could have returned hostages on October 8. It didn’t have to execute any of them. But it did. Stop holding Israel to an absurd standard that would never be applied to any other country in the world.

No one believes your Zionist propaganda any longer. Israel has developed quite an appetite for the indiscriminate killing of civilians all over the region. It is hated for good reason, and the leadership of Israel deserves to be detained, tried by international authorities, and punished appropriately. Netanyahu and his henchmen are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

DP

FTR, not a Zionist…just a cafeteria catholic American gal who recognizes that neck of the woods has been a powder keg for hundreds of years. My priority will always be America and our interests…including things like human rights, freedom of religion, democracy, rule of law, etc.

The reality is other Arab nations appreciate the role Israel plays. The civilized nations are covertly supporting Israel. Nobody wants Iran and its terrorist thugs. Nobody.

Lebanon and Gaza need leaders who embrace western values. And Israel needs new leadership as well. I suggest younger Gen X leadership—ideally people who went to Uni in the US or UK. Heck, wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and install 3 women.

The official leaders of Lebanon and Palestine are less of the issue.

The problem is both places have been taken over by Iran proxy groups that are hellbent on destruction.

The Israeli government needs to be voted out and returned to a leftist leadership. Someone like Rabin.

Right.

So root out the terrorists, install new leadership in all 3 countries, and have a zero tolerance policy on religious extremism, militant groups, etc.

People need safety first. That takes enforcement coupled with leadership to implement western values. It will take a couple generations to change hearts and minds. Evolution is hard.

Put yourself in the shoes of a Lebanese citizen. Since you are posting on DCUM I will say you are a professional woman in her 40s with 2 kids. In Lebanon - an extremely cosmopolitan and educated country you would probably be in a similar situation. So let's say you are a doctor working in Beirut. Your parents have retired to an apartment community in the south after the government froze their assets in the bank a few years ago so they could life more frugally. Your parents' apartment has been blown up. You can't get in touch with them. You are frantic. Meanwhile your kids are not in school this week and are watching the news with their friends and getting more and more agitated. In fact, last night your teenage son told you he feels like he needs to do something to defend his country. At the same time you are treating a number of critically ill patients recovering from the pager attacks. Yes, a couple are men in their 30s, but there is also a child and a woman. It's not clear to you these are terrorists. Also, you remember sheltering in the basement of your building during the Civil war in the 80s and the sounds of the explosions on the news make you freeze in PTSD symptoms. You never hated Israel before but they are attacking you and your family NOW. You always admired the US (you've gone to visit your cousin who lives there several times and really enjoyed meeting her friends) but they are supplying the bombs that are attacking you NOW. And your cousin tells you the news media there is reporting that Israel is defending itself against Hezbollah...you are not Hezbollah so you cannot comprehend this is the view. You are scared. You are angry.

Considering all of this can you really not see the danger of what Israel is doing, let alone the inhumanity.

Put yourself in the shoes of an Israeli.

You might not like Bibi, but you live under constant Hezbollah rocket fire. Most of them are intercepted by the Iron Dome but some are not.

You are scared. You are a human being, just like the Lebanese.

Yes. In fact, let's say you are a human with a heart. Hezbollah has agreed to stop the rocket fire when Israel signs a ceasefire with Gaza. So you are pleased that there is a viable option for your government to take that doesn't involve killing or maiming more people that have already been killed in this conflict.

(of course, I would also like to point out that the people from the region where the rockets are being launched had an option to relocate to safety. an option not provided to the Lebanese).

Yes. Hezbollah. The group that has followed previous ceasefires.

Oh wait … they haven’t ever done that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread is derailing. Does anyone want to talk about the Israeli - Lebanese situation or just throw insults at one another?

Here are my other questions:

1) There is no precision targeting going on (I have seen this first hand from a friend with family in Lebanon. Why does the media keep referring to “Israel attacks Herbollah” when it’s “Israel attacks Lebanon”

2) how does Israel’s actions make me (a US Jew) safer? Just see all the anger the IdF killing has stirred up on the board

3) how does Israel’s actions bring the hostages home?

Israel has been incredibly precise by every measure and civilian casualties in Lebanon well below the accepted levels used by the US when it goes to war. Obviously, very civilian casualty is tragic. But no, a Hezbollah terrorist group member killed isn’t a civilian.

As for hostages, that’s on Hamas. Why does Israel have to do all the work for everything while the terrorist group Hamas has no accountability. Hamas could have returned hostages on October 8. It didn’t have to execute any of them. But it did. Stop holding Israel to an absurd standard that would never be applied to any other country in the world.

No one believes your Zionist propaganda any longer. Israel has developed quite an appetite for the indiscriminate killing of civilians all over the region. It is hated for good reason, and the leadership of Israel deserves to be detained, tried by international authorities, and punished appropriately. Netanyahu and his henchmen are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

DP

FTR, not a Zionist…just a cafeteria catholic American gal who recognizes that neck of the woods has been a powder keg for hundreds of years. My priority will always be America and our interests…including things like human rights, freedom of religion, democracy, rule of law, etc.

The reality is other Arab nations appreciate the role Israel plays. The civilized nations are covertly supporting Israel. Nobody wants Iran and its terrorist thugs. Nobody.

Lebanon and Gaza need leaders who embrace western values. And Israel needs new leadership as well. I suggest younger Gen X leadership—ideally people who went to Uni in the US or UK. Heck, wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and install 3 women.

The official leaders of Lebanon and Palestine are less of the issue.

The problem is both places have been taken over by Iran proxy groups that are hellbent on destruction.

The Israeli government needs to be voted out and returned to a leftist leadership. Someone like Rabin.

Right.

So root out the terrorists, install new leadership in all 3 countries, and have a zero tolerance policy on religious extremism, militant groups, etc.

People need safety first. That takes enforcement coupled with leadership to implement western values. It will take a couple generations to change hearts and minds. Evolution is hard.

Israel took a hard right turn when Rabin was killed. They used to be more leftist. They can get back there.

But it will be hard to do that when Hamas and Hezbollah are on their borders.

It’s going to take action on ALL sides.

Um…yes…

I think as we approach the one year mark of the war and observe a ratcheting up of operations, it’s safe to assume Israel and the sensible Arab nations quietly supporting them realize nothing will change until Hamas and Hezbollah are neutralized.

While I am a pacifist who thinks most wars are a pointless tragedies, this war might actually produce positive results if the terrorists are defeated and new leadership fosters peaceful coexistence…eventually.

Anyone who thinks Israel can "neutralize" Hamas or Hezbollah militarily without creating many more resistance organizations isn't really paying attention.

So what’s the alternative? Let Hezbollah continue to launch 100s of rockets a day at Israel and hope the iron dome holds?

There is a viable alternative: Agree to a ceasefire. Hamas releases their hostages and Israel releases their and leaves Gaza. It's not that hard for sensible minds.

And for the sake of its longer-term security, Israel needs to work cooperatively with its neighbors to figure out how to diffuse the anger and hatred it has stirred up by killing and maiming so many people.

This.

Aren’t most of us parents here? Don’t we want more stability and less chaos in the future our kids inhabit?

It is absolutely unreal that so many people across all political points of view are ok with the limitless support of Israel, and with potential deployment of American youth. It’s wrong. It’s completely immoral and wrong and against our collective best interests.

I will add that finally - FINALLY - a year in, I’m finally seeing more ceasefire posters hung with pride in my crunchy granola NYC neighborhood. I see more and more old women wearing tees saying they’re Jewish and support peace. I hope we can pull out of this maelstrom.

[Anonymous]

The number of people who take a terrorist group at their word is unbelievable.

“But Hezbollah promised they’d stop! Why won’t you just believe them?!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread is derailing. Does anyone want to talk about the Israeli - Lebanese situation or just throw insults at one another?

Here are my other questions:

1) There is no precision targeting going on (I have seen this first hand from a friend with family in Lebanon. Why does the media keep referring to “Israel attacks Herbollah” when it’s “Israel attacks Lebanon”

2) how does Israel’s actions make me (a US Jew) safer? Just see all the anger the IdF killing has stirred up on the board

3) how does Israel’s actions bring the hostages home?

Israel has been incredibly precise by every measure and civilian casualties in Lebanon well below the accepted levels used by the US when it goes to war. Obviously, very civilian casualty is tragic. But no, a Hezbollah terrorist group member killed isn’t a civilian.

As for hostages, that’s on Hamas. Why does Israel have to do all the work for everything while the terrorist group Hamas has no accountability. Hamas could have returned hostages on October 8. It didn’t have to execute any of them. But it did. Stop holding Israel to an absurd standard that would never be applied to any other country in the world.

No one believes your Zionist propaganda any longer. Israel has developed quite an appetite for the indiscriminate killing of civilians all over the region. It is hated for good reason, and the leadership of Israel deserves to be detained, tried by international authorities, and punished appropriately. Netanyahu and his henchmen are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

DP

FTR, not a Zionist…just a cafeteria catholic American gal who recognizes that neck of the woods has been a powder keg for hundreds of years. My priority will always be America and our interests…including things like human rights, freedom of religion, democracy, rule of law, etc.

The reality is other Arab nations appreciate the role Israel plays. The civilized nations are covertly supporting Israel. Nobody wants Iran and its terrorist thugs. Nobody.

Lebanon and Gaza need leaders who embrace western values. And Israel needs new leadership as well. I suggest younger Gen X leadership—ideally people who went to Uni in the US or UK. Heck, wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and install 3 women.

The official leaders of Lebanon and Palestine are less of the issue.

The problem is both places have been taken over by Iran proxy groups that are hellbent on destruction.

The Israeli government needs to be voted out and returned to a leftist leadership. Someone like Rabin.

Right.

So root out the terrorists, install new leadership in all 3 countries, and have a zero tolerance policy on religious extremism, militant groups, etc.

People need safety first. That takes enforcement coupled with leadership to implement western values. It will take a couple generations to change hearts and minds. Evolution is hard.

Put yourself in the shoes of a Lebanese citizen. Since you are posting on DCUM I will say you are a professional woman in her 40s with 2 kids. In Lebanon - an extremely cosmopolitan and educated country you would probably be in a similar situation. So let's say you are a doctor working in Beirut. Your parents have retired to an apartment community in the south after the government froze their assets in the bank a few years ago so they could life more frugally. Your parents' apartment has been blown up. You can't get in touch with them. You are frantic. Meanwhile your kids are not in school this week and are watching the news with their friends and getting more and more agitated. In fact, last night your teenage son told you he feels like he needs to do something to defend his country. At the same time you are treating a number of critically ill patients recovering from the pager attacks. Yes, a couple are men in their 30s, but there is also a child and a woman. It's not clear to you these are terrorists. Also, you remember sheltering in the basement of your building during the Civil war in the 80s and the sounds of the explosions on the news make you freeze in PTSD symptoms. You never hated Israel before but they are attacking you and your family NOW. You always admired the US (you've gone to visit your cousin who lives there several times and really enjoyed meeting her friends) but they are supplying the bombs that are attacking you NOW. And your cousin tells you the news media there is reporting that Israel is defending itself against Hezbollah...you are not Hezbollah so you cannot comprehend this is the view. You are scared. You are angry.

Considering all of this can you really not see the danger of what Israel is doing, let alone the inhumanity.

But Arabs are not human in the eyes of Israel and its US supporters. The Israel lobby in the US has spent DECADES dehumanizing Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular. Arabs are depicted as evil terrorists in so many movies and TV shows. Have you ever seen an Arab depicted as a “good guy” in the US media? Rarely. Israel has been stealing Palestinian land for over 80 years with the help of US taxpayer money and US weapons. It is justified by the dehumanization of Palestinians. When people have nothing to lose-meaning their land has been stolen, their people mercilessly killed with zero accountability, their dignity stripped away- yes, they will become extremists and turn to religious extremism. They have nothing left to lose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread is derailing. Does anyone want to talk about the Israeli - Lebanese situation or just throw insults at one another?

Here are my other questions:

1) There is no precision targeting going on (I have seen this first hand from a friend with family in Lebanon. Why does the media keep referring to “Israel attacks Herbollah” when it’s “Israel attacks Lebanon”

2) how does Israel’s actions make me (a US Jew) safer? Just see all the anger the IdF killing has stirred up on the board

3) how does Israel’s actions bring the hostages home?

Israel has been incredibly precise by every measure and civilian casualties in Lebanon well below the accepted levels used by the US when it goes to war. Obviously, very civilian casualty is tragic. But no, a Hezbollah terrorist group member killed isn’t a civilian.

As for hostages, that’s on Hamas. Why does Israel have to do all the work for everything while the terrorist group Hamas has no accountability. Hamas could have returned hostages on October 8. It didn’t have to execute any of them. But it did. Stop holding Israel to an absurd standard that would never be applied to any other country in the world.

No one believes your Zionist propaganda any longer. Israel has developed quite an appetite for the indiscriminate killing of civilians all over the region. It is hated for good reason, and the leadership of Israel deserves to be detained, tried by international authorities, and punished appropriately. Netanyahu and his henchmen are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

DP

FTR, not a Zionist…just a cafeteria catholic American gal who recognizes that neck of the woods has been a powder keg for hundreds of years. My priority will always be America and our interests…including things like human rights, freedom of religion, democracy, rule of law, etc.

The reality is other Arab nations appreciate the role Israel plays. The civilized nations are covertly supporting Israel. Nobody wants Iran and its terrorist thugs. Nobody.

Lebanon and Gaza need leaders who embrace western values. And Israel needs new leadership as well. I suggest younger Gen X leadership—ideally people who went to Uni in the US or UK. Heck, wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and install 3 women.

The official leaders of Lebanon and Palestine are less of the issue.

The problem is both places have been taken over by Iran proxy groups that are hellbent on destruction.

The Israeli government needs to be voted out and returned to a leftist leadership. Someone like Rabin.

Right.

So root out the terrorists, install new leadership in all 3 countries, and have a zero tolerance policy on religious extremism, militant groups, etc.

People need safety first. That takes enforcement coupled with leadership to implement western values. It will take a couple generations to change hearts and minds. Evolution is hard.

Israel took a hard right turn when Rabin was killed. They used to be more leftist. They can get back there.

But it will be hard to do that when Hamas and Hezbollah are on their borders.

It’s going to take action on ALL sides.

Um…yes…

I think as we approach the one year mark of the war and observe a ratcheting up of operations, it’s safe to assume Israel and the sensible Arab nations quietly supporting them realize nothing will change until Hamas and Hezbollah are neutralized.

While I am a pacifist who thinks most wars are a pointless tragedies, this war might actually produce positive results if the terrorists are defeated and new leadership fosters peaceful coexistence…eventually.

Anyone who thinks Israel can "neutralize" Hamas or Hezbollah militarily without creating many more resistance organizations isn't really paying attention.

So what’s the alternative? Let Hezbollah continue to launch 100s of rockets a day at Israel and hope the iron dome holds?

There is a viable alternative: Agree to a ceasefire. Hamas releases their hostages and Israel releases their and leaves Gaza. It's not that hard for sensible minds.

And for the sake of its longer-term security, Israel needs to work cooperatively with its neighbors to figure out how to diffuse the anger and hatred it has stirred up by killing and maiming so many people.

Hezbollah and Hamas have violated every ceasefire that has been agreed to.

Hezbollah violated the 2006 ceasefire immediately.

Next argument?

Because Israel has never been able to consider that the root of the issue may not be antisemitism but rather displacement from land combined with restriction on action and lack of autonomy in the leftover land. Look at the real root causes and there can be a solution. This continued killing is just creating more anger from people who weren't even angry at Israel and the US to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread is derailing. Does anyone want to talk about the Israeli - Lebanese situation or just throw insults at one another?

Here are my other questions:

1) There is no precision targeting going on (I have seen this first hand from a friend with family in Lebanon. Why does the media keep referring to “Israel attacks Herbollah” when it’s “Israel attacks Lebanon”

2) how does Israel’s actions make me (a US Jew) safer? Just see all the anger the IdF killing has stirred up on the board

3) how does Israel’s actions bring the hostages home?

Israel has been incredibly precise by every measure and civilian casualties in Lebanon well below the accepted levels used by the US when it goes to war. Obviously, very civilian casualty is tragic. But no, a Hezbollah terrorist group member killed isn’t a civilian.

As for hostages, that’s on Hamas. Why does Israel have to do all the work for everything while the terrorist group Hamas has no accountability. Hamas could have returned hostages on October 8. It didn’t have to execute any of them. But it did. Stop holding Israel to an absurd standard that would never be applied to any other country in the world.

No one believes your Zionist propaganda any longer. Israel has developed quite an appetite for the indiscriminate killing of civilians all over the region. It is hated for good reason, and the leadership of Israel deserves to be detained, tried by international authorities, and punished appropriately. Netanyahu and his henchmen are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

DP

FTR, not a Zionist…just a cafeteria catholic American gal who recognizes that neck of the woods has been a powder keg for hundreds of years. My priority will always be America and our interests…including things like human rights, freedom of religion, democracy, rule of law, etc.

The reality is other Arab nations appreciate the role Israel plays. The civilized nations are covertly supporting Israel. Nobody wants Iran and its terrorist thugs. Nobody.

Lebanon and Gaza need leaders who embrace western values. And Israel needs new leadership as well. I suggest younger Gen X leadership—ideally people who went to Uni in the US or UK. Heck, wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and install 3 women.

The official leaders of Lebanon and Palestine are less of the issue.

The problem is both places have been taken over by Iran proxy groups that are hellbent on destruction.

The Israeli government needs to be voted out and returned to a leftist leadership. Someone like Rabin.

Right.

So root out the terrorists, install new leadership in all 3 countries, and have a zero tolerance policy on religious extremism, militant groups, etc.

People need safety first. That takes enforcement coupled with leadership to implement western values. It will take a couple generations to change hearts and minds. Evolution is hard.

Israel took a hard right turn when Rabin was killed. They used to be more leftist. They can get back there.

But it will be hard to do that when Hamas and Hezbollah are on their borders.

It’s going to take action on ALL sides.

Um…yes…

I think as we approach the one year mark of the war and observe a ratcheting up of operations, it’s safe to assume Israel and the sensible Arab nations quietly supporting them realize nothing will change until Hamas and Hezbollah are neutralized.

While I am a pacifist who thinks most wars are a pointless tragedies, this war might actually produce positive results if the terrorists are defeated and new leadership fosters peaceful coexistence…eventually.

Anyone who thinks Israel can "neutralize" Hamas or Hezbollah militarily without creating many more resistance organizations isn't really paying attention.

So what’s the alternative? Let Hezbollah continue to launch 100s of rockets a day at Israel and hope the iron dome holds?

There is a viable alternative: Agree to a ceasefire. Hamas releases their hostages and Israel releases their and leaves Gaza. It's not that hard for sensible minds.

And for the sake of its longer-term security, Israel needs to work cooperatively with its neighbors to figure out how to diffuse the anger and hatred it has stirred up by killing and maiming so many people.

This.

Aren’t most of us parents here? Don’t we want more stability and less chaos in the future our kids inhabit?

It is absolutely unreal that so many people across all political points of view are ok with the limitless support of Israel, and with potential deployment of American youth. It’s wrong. It’s completely immoral and wrong and against our collective best interests.

I don’t think you understand that Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist groups.

They don’t adhere to ceasefires.

I don’t think you understand that criminal settlers have stolen and murdered with explicit IDF protection in the West Bank for decades. I don’t think you understand that Netanyahu sacrificed israeli lives to stay out of prison and sat on intelligence for a year. I don’t think you understand that in its specious quest to eradicate hezbollah in 2006, Israel relaunched a unilateral military campaign from afar, with US support, that destroyed the trajectory towards prosperity and even resumed western tourism.

It’s enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread is derailing. Does anyone want to talk about the Israeli - Lebanese situation or just throw insults at one another?

Here are my other questions:

1) There is no precision targeting going on (I have seen this first hand from a friend with family in Lebanon. Why does the media keep referring to “Israel attacks Herbollah” when it’s “Israel attacks Lebanon”

2) how does Israel’s actions make me (a US Jew) safer? Just see all the anger the IdF killing has stirred up on the board

3) how does Israel’s actions bring the hostages home?

Israel has been incredibly precise by every measure and civilian casualties in Lebanon well below the accepted levels used by the US when it goes to war. Obviously, very civilian casualty is tragic. But no, a Hezbollah terrorist group member killed isn’t a civilian.

As for hostages, that’s on Hamas. Why does Israel have to do all the work for everything while the terrorist group Hamas has no accountability. Hamas could have returned hostages on October 8. It didn’t have to execute any of them. But it did. Stop holding Israel to an absurd standard that would never be applied to any other country in the world.

No one believes your Zionist propaganda any longer. Israel has developed quite an appetite for the indiscriminate killing of civilians all over the region. It is hated for good reason, and the leadership of Israel deserves to be detained, tried by international authorities, and punished appropriately. Netanyahu and his henchmen are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

DP

FTR, not a Zionist…just a cafeteria catholic American gal who recognizes that neck of the woods has been a powder keg for hundreds of years. My priority will always be America and our interests…including things like human rights, freedom of religion, democracy, rule of law, etc.

The reality is other Arab nations appreciate the role Israel plays. The civilized nations are covertly supporting Israel. Nobody wants Iran and its terrorist thugs. Nobody.

Lebanon and Gaza need leaders who embrace western values. And Israel needs new leadership as well. I suggest younger Gen X leadership—ideally people who went to Uni in the US or UK. Heck, wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and install 3 women.

The official leaders of Lebanon and Palestine are less of the issue.

The problem is both places have been taken over by Iran proxy groups that are hellbent on destruction.

The Israeli government needs to be voted out and returned to a leftist leadership. Someone like Rabin.

Right.

So root out the terrorists, install new leadership in all 3 countries, and have a zero tolerance policy on religious extremism, militant groups, etc.

People need safety first. That takes enforcement coupled with leadership to implement western values. It will take a couple generations to change hearts and minds. Evolution is hard.

Put yourself in the shoes of a Lebanese citizen. Since you are posting on DCUM I will say you are a professional woman in her 40s with 2 kids. In Lebanon - an extremely cosmopolitan and educated country you would probably be in a similar situation. So let's say you are a doctor working in Beirut. Your parents have retired to an apartment community in the south after the government froze their assets in the bank a few years ago so they could life more frugally. Your parents' apartment has been blown up. You can't get in touch with them. You are frantic. Meanwhile your kids are not in school this week and are watching the news with their friends and getting more and more agitated. In fact, last night your teenage son told you he feels like he needs to do something to defend his country. At the same time you are treating a number of critically ill patients recovering from the pager attacks. Yes, a couple are men in their 30s, but there is also a child and a woman. It's not clear to you these are terrorists. Also, you remember sheltering in the basement of your building during the Civil war in the 80s and the sounds of the explosions on the news make you freeze in PTSD symptoms. You never hated Israel before but they are attacking you and your family NOW. You always admired the US (you've gone to visit your cousin who lives there several times and really enjoyed meeting her friends) but they are supplying the bombs that are attacking you NOW. And your cousin tells you the news media there is reporting that Israel is defending itself against Hezbollah...you are not Hezbollah so you cannot comprehend this is the view. You are scared. You are angry.

Considering all of this can you really not see the danger of what Israel is doing, let alone the inhumanity.

But Arabs are not human in the eyes of Israel and its US supporters. The Israel lobby in the US has spent DECADES dehumanizing Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular. Arabs are depicted as evil terrorists in so many movies and TV shows. Have you ever seen an Arab depicted as a “good guy” in the US media? Rarely. Israel has been stealing Palestinian land for over 80 years with the help of US taxpayer money and US weapons. It is justified by the dehumanization of Palestinians. When people have nothing to lose-meaning their land has been stolen, their people mercilessly killed with zero accountability, their dignity stripped away- yes, they will become extremists and turn to religious extremism. They have nothing left to lose.

Maybe if they stop being terrorists and killing innocents things would be different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread is derailing. Does anyone want to talk about the Israeli - Lebanese situation or just throw insults at one another?

Here are my other questions:

1) There is no precision targeting going on (I have seen this first hand from a friend with family in Lebanon. Why does the media keep referring to “Israel attacks Herbollah” when it’s “Israel attacks Lebanon”

2) how does Israel’s actions make me (a US Jew) safer? Just see all the anger the IdF killing has stirred up on the board

3) how does Israel’s actions bring the hostages home?

Israel has been incredibly precise by every measure and civilian casualties in Lebanon well below the accepted levels used by the US when it goes to war. Obviously, very civilian casualty is tragic. But no, a Hezbollah terrorist group member killed isn’t a civilian.

As for hostages, that’s on Hamas. Why does Israel have to do all the work for everything while the terrorist group Hamas has no accountability. Hamas could have returned hostages on October 8. It didn’t have to execute any of them. But it did. Stop holding Israel to an absurd standard that would never be applied to any other country in the world.

No one believes your Zionist propaganda any longer. Israel has developed quite an appetite for the indiscriminate killing of civilians all over the region. It is hated for good reason, and the leadership of Israel deserves to be detained, tried by international authorities, and punished appropriately. Netanyahu and his henchmen are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

DP

FTR, not a Zionist…just a cafeteria catholic American gal who recognizes that neck of the woods has been a powder keg for hundreds of years. My priority will always be America and our interests…including things like human rights, freedom of religion, democracy, rule of law, etc.

The reality is other Arab nations appreciate the role Israel plays. The civilized nations are covertly supporting Israel. Nobody wants Iran and its terrorist thugs. Nobody.

Lebanon and Gaza need leaders who embrace western values. And Israel needs new leadership as well. I suggest younger Gen X leadership—ideally people who went to Uni in the US or UK. Heck, wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and install 3 women.

The official leaders of Lebanon and Palestine are less of the issue.

The problem is both places have been taken over by Iran proxy groups that are hellbent on destruction.

The Israeli government needs to be voted out and returned to a leftist leadership. Someone like Rabin.

Right.

So root out the terrorists, install new leadership in all 3 countries, and have a zero tolerance policy on religious extremism, militant groups, etc.

People need safety first. That takes enforcement coupled with leadership to implement western values. It will take a couple generations to change hearts and minds. Evolution is hard.

Israel took a hard right turn when Rabin was killed. They used to be more leftist. They can get back there.

But it will be hard to do that when Hamas and Hezbollah are on their borders.

It’s going to take action on ALL sides.

Um…yes…

I think as we approach the one year mark of the war and observe a ratcheting up of operations, it’s safe to assume Israel and the sensible Arab nations quietly supporting them realize nothing will change until Hamas and Hezbollah are neutralized.

While I am a pacifist who thinks most wars are a pointless tragedies, this war might actually produce positive results if the terrorists are defeated and new leadership fosters peaceful coexistence…eventually.

Anyone who thinks Israel can "neutralize" Hamas or Hezbollah militarily without creating many more resistance organizations isn't really paying attention.

So what’s the alternative? Let Hezbollah continue to launch 100s of rockets a day at Israel and hope the iron dome holds?

There is a viable alternative: Agree to a ceasefire. Hamas releases their hostages and Israel releases their and leaves Gaza. It's not that hard for sensible minds.

And for the sake of its longer-term security, Israel needs to work cooperatively with its neighbors to figure out how to diffuse the anger and hatred it has stirred up by killing and maiming so many people.

Hezbollah and Hamas have violated every ceasefire that has been agreed to.

Hezbollah violated the 2006 ceasefire immediately.

Next argument?

Because Israel has never been able to consider that the root of the issue may not be antisemitism but rather displacement from land combined with restriction on action and lack of autonomy in the leftover land. Look at the real root causes and there can be a solution. This continued killing is just creating more anger from people who weren't even angry at Israel and the US to begin with.

Again: Israel does not occupy Lebanon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread is derailing. Does anyone want to talk about the Israeli - Lebanese situation or just throw insults at one another?

Here are my other questions:

1) There is no precision targeting going on (I have seen this first hand from a friend with family in Lebanon. Why does the media keep referring to “Israel attacks Herbollah” when it’s “Israel attacks Lebanon”

2) how does Israel’s actions make me (a US Jew) safer? Just see all the anger the IdF killing has stirred up on the board

3) how does Israel’s actions bring the hostages home?

Israel has been incredibly precise by every measure and civilian casualties in Lebanon well below the accepted levels used by the US when it goes to war. Obviously, very civilian casualty is tragic. But no, a Hezbollah terrorist group member killed isn’t a civilian.

As for hostages, that’s on Hamas. Why does Israel have to do all the work for everything while the terrorist group Hamas has no accountability. Hamas could have returned hostages on October 8. It didn’t have to execute any of them. But it did. Stop holding Israel to an absurd standard that would never be applied to any other country in the world.

No one believes your Zionist propaganda any longer. Israel has developed quite an appetite for the indiscriminate killing of civilians all over the region. It is hated for good reason, and the leadership of Israel deserves to be detained, tried by international authorities, and punished appropriately. Netanyahu and his henchmen are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

DP

FTR, not a Zionist…just a cafeteria catholic American gal who recognizes that neck of the woods has been a powder keg for hundreds of years. My priority will always be America and our interests…including things like human rights, freedom of religion, democracy, rule of law, etc.

The reality is other Arab nations appreciate the role Israel plays. The civilized nations are covertly supporting Israel. Nobody wants Iran and its terrorist thugs. Nobody.

Lebanon and Gaza need leaders who embrace western values. And Israel needs new leadership as well. I suggest younger Gen X leadership—ideally people who went to Uni in the US or UK. Heck, wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and install 3 women.

The official leaders of Lebanon and Palestine are less of the issue.

The problem is both places have been taken over by Iran proxy groups that are hellbent on destruction.

The Israeli government needs to be voted out and returned to a leftist leadership. Someone like Rabin.

Right.

So root out the terrorists, install new leadership in all 3 countries, and have a zero tolerance policy on religious extremism, militant groups, etc.

People need safety first. That takes enforcement coupled with leadership to implement western values. It will take a couple generations to change hearts and minds. Evolution is hard.

Israel took a hard right turn when Rabin was killed. They used to be more leftist. They can get back there.

But it will be hard to do that when Hamas and Hezbollah are on their borders.

It’s going to take action on ALL sides.

Um…yes…

I think as we approach the one year mark of the war and observe a ratcheting up of operations, it’s safe to assume Israel and the sensible Arab nations quietly supporting them realize nothing will change until Hamas and Hezbollah are neutralized.

While I am a pacifist who thinks most wars are a pointless tragedies, this war might actually produce positive results if the terrorists are defeated and new leadership fosters peaceful coexistence…eventually.

Anyone who thinks Israel can "neutralize" Hamas or Hezbollah militarily without creating many more resistance organizations isn't really paying attention.

So what’s the alternative? Let Hezbollah continue to launch 100s of rockets a day at Israel and hope the iron dome holds?

There is a viable alternative: Agree to a ceasefire. Hamas releases their hostages and Israel releases their and leaves Gaza. It's not that hard for sensible minds.

And for the sake of its longer-term security, Israel needs to work cooperatively with its neighbors to figure out how to diffuse the anger and hatred it has stirred up by killing and maiming so many people.

This.

Aren’t most of us parents here? Don’t we want more stability and less chaos in the future our kids inhabit?

It is absolutely unreal that so many people across all political points of view are ok with the limitless support of Israel, and with potential deployment of American youth. It’s wrong. It’s completely immoral and wrong and against our collective best interests.

I will add that finally - FINALLY - a year in, I’m finally seeing more ceasefire posters hung with pride in my crunchy granola NYC neighborhood. I see more and more old women wearing tees saying they’re Jewish and support peace. I hope we can pull out of this maelstrom.

I need to focus on work so I am going to leave a last comment on the day: I love your post - thank you. I hope there is hope!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread is derailing. Does anyone want to talk about the Israeli - Lebanese situation or just throw insults at one another?

Here are my other questions:

1) There is no precision targeting going on (I have seen this first hand from a friend with family in Lebanon. Why does the media keep referring to “Israel attacks Herbollah” when it’s “Israel attacks Lebanon”

2) how does Israel’s actions make me (a US Jew) safer? Just see all the anger the IdF killing has stirred up on the board

3) how does Israel’s actions bring the hostages home?

Israel has been incredibly precise by every measure and civilian casualties in Lebanon well below the accepted levels used by the US when it goes to war. Obviously, very civilian casualty is tragic. But no, a Hezbollah terrorist group member killed isn’t a civilian.

As for hostages, that’s on Hamas. Why does Israel have to do all the work for everything while the terrorist group Hamas has no accountability. Hamas could have returned hostages on October 8. It didn’t have to execute any of them. But it did. Stop holding Israel to an absurd standard that would never be applied to any other country in the world.

No one believes your Zionist propaganda any longer. Israel has developed quite an appetite for the indiscriminate killing of civilians all over the region. It is hated for good reason, and the leadership of Israel deserves to be detained, tried by international authorities, and punished appropriately. Netanyahu and his henchmen are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

DP

FTR, not a Zionist…just a cafeteria catholic American gal who recognizes that neck of the woods has been a powder keg for hundreds of years. My priority will always be America and our interests…including things like human rights, freedom of religion, democracy, rule of law, etc.

The reality is other Arab nations appreciate the role Israel plays. The civilized nations are covertly supporting Israel. Nobody wants Iran and its terrorist thugs. Nobody.

Lebanon and Gaza need leaders who embrace western values. And Israel needs new leadership as well. I suggest younger Gen X leadership—ideally people who went to Uni in the US or UK. Heck, wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and install 3 women.

The official leaders of Lebanon and Palestine are less of the issue.

The problem is both places have been taken over by Iran proxy groups that are hellbent on destruction.

The Israeli government needs to be voted out and returned to a leftist leadership. Someone like Rabin.

Right.

So root out the terrorists, install new leadership in all 3 countries, and have a zero tolerance policy on religious extremism, militant groups, etc.

People need safety first. That takes enforcement coupled with leadership to implement western values. It will take a couple generations to change hearts and minds. Evolution is hard.

Israel took a hard right turn when Rabin was killed. They used to be more leftist. They can get back there.

But it will be hard to do that when Hamas and Hezbollah are on their borders.

It’s going to take action on ALL sides.

Um…yes…

I think as we approach the one year mark of the war and observe a ratcheting up of operations, it’s safe to assume Israel and the sensible Arab nations quietly supporting them realize nothing will change until Hamas and Hezbollah are neutralized.

While I am a pacifist who thinks most wars are a pointless tragedies, this war might actually produce positive results if the terrorists are defeated and new leadership fosters peaceful coexistence…eventually.

Anyone who thinks Israel can "neutralize" Hamas or Hezbollah militarily without creating many more resistance organizations isn't really paying attention.

So what’s the alternative? Let Hezbollah continue to launch 100s of rockets a day at Israel and hope the iron dome holds?

There is a viable alternative: Agree to a ceasefire. Hamas releases their hostages and Israel releases their and leaves Gaza. It's not that hard for sensible minds.

And for the sake of its longer-term security, Israel needs to work cooperatively with its neighbors to figure out how to diffuse the anger and hatred it has stirred up by killing and maiming so many people.

This.

Aren’t most of us parents here? Don’t we want more stability and less chaos in the future our kids inhabit?

It is absolutely unreal that so many people across all political points of view are ok with the limitless support of Israel, and with potential deployment of American youth. It’s wrong. It’s completely immoral and wrong and against our collective best interests.

I don’t think you understand that Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist groups.

They don’t adhere to ceasefires.

I don’t think you understand that criminal settlers have stolen and murdered with explicit IDF protection in the West Bank for decades. I don’t think you understand that Netanyahu sacrificed israeli lives to stay out of prison and sat on intelligence for a year. I don’t think you understand that in its specious quest to eradicate hezbollah in 2006, Israel relaunched a unilateral military campaign from afar, with US support, that destroyed the trajectory towards prosperity and even resumed western tourism.

It’s enough.

Hezbollah has nothing to do with the West Bank.

Stop conflating issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread is derailing. Does anyone want to talk about the Israeli - Lebanese situation or just throw insults at one another?

Here are my other questions:

1) There is no precision targeting going on (I have seen this first hand from a friend with family in Lebanon. Why does the media keep referring to “Israel attacks Herbollah” when it’s “Israel attacks Lebanon”

2) how does Israel’s actions make me (a US Jew) safer? Just see all the anger the IdF killing has stirred up on the board

3) how does Israel’s actions bring the hostages home?

Israel has been incredibly precise by every measure and civilian casualties in Lebanon well below the accepted levels used by the US when it goes to war. Obviously, very civilian casualty is tragic. But no, a Hezbollah terrorist group member killed isn’t a civilian.

As for hostages, that’s on Hamas. Why does Israel have to do all the work for everything while the terrorist group Hamas has no accountability. Hamas could have returned hostages on October 8. It didn’t have to execute any of them. But it did. Stop holding Israel to an absurd standard that would never be applied to any other country in the world.

No one believes your Zionist propaganda any longer. Israel has developed quite an appetite for the indiscriminate killing of civilians all over the region. It is hated for good reason, and the leadership of Israel deserves to be detained, tried by international authorities, and punished appropriately. Netanyahu and his henchmen are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

DP

FTR, not a Zionist…just a cafeteria catholic American gal who recognizes that neck of the woods has been a powder keg for hundreds of years. My priority will always be America and our interests…including things like human rights, freedom of religion, democracy, rule of law, etc.

The reality is other Arab nations appreciate the role Israel plays. The civilized nations are covertly supporting Israel. Nobody wants Iran and its terrorist thugs. Nobody.

Lebanon and Gaza need leaders who embrace western values. And Israel needs new leadership as well. I suggest younger Gen X leadership—ideally people who went to Uni in the US or UK. Heck, wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and install 3 women.

The official leaders of Lebanon and Palestine are less of the issue.

The problem is both places have been taken over by Iran proxy groups that are hellbent on destruction.

The Israeli government needs to be voted out and returned to a leftist leadership. Someone like Rabin.

Right.

So root out the terrorists, install new leadership in all 3 countries, and have a zero tolerance policy on religious extremism, militant groups, etc.

People need safety first. That takes enforcement coupled with leadership to implement western values. It will take a couple generations to change hearts and minds. Evolution is hard.

Israel took a hard right turn when Rabin was killed. They used to be more leftist. They can get back there.

But it will be hard to do that when Hamas and Hezbollah are on their borders.

It’s going to take action on ALL sides.

Um…yes…

I think as we approach the one year mark of the war and observe a ratcheting up of operations, it’s safe to assume Israel and the sensible Arab nations quietly supporting them realize nothing will change until Hamas and Hezbollah are neutralized.

While I am a pacifist who thinks most wars are a pointless tragedies, this war might actually produce positive results if the terrorists are defeated and new leadership fosters peaceful coexistence…eventually.

Anyone who thinks Israel can "neutralize" Hamas or Hezbollah militarily without creating many more resistance organizations isn't really paying attention.

So what’s the alternative? Let Hezbollah continue to launch 100s of rockets a day at Israel and hope the iron dome holds?

There is a viable alternative: Agree to a ceasefire. Hamas releases their hostages and Israel releases their and leaves Gaza. It's not that hard for sensible minds.

And for the sake of its longer-term security, Israel needs to work cooperatively with its neighbors to figure out how to diffuse the anger and hatred it has stirred up by killing and maiming so many people.

Hezbollah and Hamas have violated every ceasefire that has been agreed to.

Hezbollah violated the 2006 ceasefire immediately.

Next argument?

Because Israel has never been able to consider that the root of the issue may not be antisemitism but rather displacement from land combined with restriction on action and lack of autonomy in the leftover land. Look at the real root causes and there can be a solution. This continued killing is just creating more anger from people who weren't even angry at Israel and the US to begin with.

Again: Israel does not occupy Lebanon.

Again: Israel was founded on land already occupied by humans with feelings and has pushed past its UN authorized borders. That is the root of the problem. (I am not denying Israel has a right to its 1948 borders, I believe it does. However, that was the cause of the anger. To remain blind to that fact never defines the problem correctly and the problem must be defined correctly so it can be solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread is derailing. Does anyone want to talk about the Israeli - Lebanese situation or just throw insults at one another?

Here are my other questions:

1) There is no precision targeting going on (I have seen this first hand from a friend with family in Lebanon. Why does the media keep referring to “Israel attacks Herbollah” when it’s “Israel attacks Lebanon”

2) how does Israel’s actions make me (a US Jew) safer? Just see all the anger the IdF killing has stirred up on the board

3) how does Israel’s actions bring the hostages home?

Israel has been incredibly precise by every measure and civilian casualties in Lebanon well below the accepted levels used by the US when it goes to war. Obviously, very civilian casualty is tragic. But no, a Hezbollah terrorist group member killed isn’t a civilian.

As for hostages, that’s on Hamas. Why does Israel have to do all the work for everything while the terrorist group Hamas has no accountability. Hamas could have returned hostages on October 8. It didn’t have to execute any of them. But it did. Stop holding Israel to an absurd standard that would never be applied to any other country in the world.

No one believes your Zionist propaganda any longer. Israel has developed quite an appetite for the indiscriminate killing of civilians all over the region. It is hated for good reason, and the leadership of Israel deserves to be detained, tried by international authorities, and punished appropriately. Netanyahu and his henchmen are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

DP

FTR, not a Zionist…just a cafeteria catholic American gal who recognizes that neck of the woods has been a powder keg for hundreds of years. My priority will always be America and our interests…including things like human rights, freedom of religion, democracy, rule of law, etc.

The reality is other Arab nations appreciate the role Israel plays. The civilized nations are covertly supporting Israel. Nobody wants Iran and its terrorist thugs. Nobody.

Lebanon and Gaza need leaders who embrace western values. And Israel needs new leadership as well. I suggest younger Gen X leadership—ideally people who went to Uni in the US or UK. Heck, wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and install 3 women.

The official leaders of Lebanon and Palestine are less of the issue.

The problem is both places have been taken over by Iran proxy groups that are hellbent on destruction.

The Israeli government needs to be voted out and returned to a leftist leadership. Someone like Rabin.

Right.

So root out the terrorists, install new leadership in all 3 countries, and have a zero tolerance policy on religious extremism, militant groups, etc.

People need safety first. That takes enforcement coupled with leadership to implement western values. It will take a couple generations to change hearts and minds. Evolution is hard.

Israel took a hard right turn when Rabin was killed. They used to be more leftist. They can get back there.

But it will be hard to do that when Hamas and Hezbollah are on their borders.

It’s going to take action on ALL sides.

Um…yes…

I think as we approach the one year mark of the war and observe a ratcheting up of operations, it’s safe to assume Israel and the sensible Arab nations quietly supporting them realize nothing will change until Hamas and Hezbollah are neutralized.

While I am a pacifist who thinks most wars are a pointless tragedies, this war might actually produce positive results if the terrorists are defeated and new leadership fosters peaceful coexistence…eventually.

Anyone who thinks Israel can "neutralize" Hamas or Hezbollah militarily without creating many more resistance organizations isn't really paying attention.

So what’s the alternative? Let Hezbollah continue to launch 100s of rockets a day at Israel and hope the iron dome holds?

There is a viable alternative: Agree to a ceasefire. Hamas releases their hostages and Israel releases their and leaves Gaza. It's not that hard for sensible minds.

And for the sake of its longer-term security, Israel needs to work cooperatively with its neighbors to figure out how to diffuse the anger and hatred it has stirred up by killing and maiming so many people.

Hezbollah and Hamas have violated every ceasefire that has been agreed to.

Hezbollah violated the 2006 ceasefire immediately.

Next argument?

Because Israel has never been able to consider that the root of the issue may not be antisemitism but rather displacement from land combined with restriction on action and lack of autonomy in the leftover land. Look at the real root causes and there can be a solution. This continued killing is just creating more anger from people who weren't even angry at Israel and the US to begin with.

Again: Israel does not occupy Lebanon.

Again: Israel was founded on land already occupied by humans with feelings and has pushed past its UN authorized borders. That is the root of the problem. (I am not denying Israel has a right to its 1948 borders, I believe it does. However, that was the cause of the anger. To remain blind to that fact never defines the problem correctly and the problem must be defined correctly so it can be solved.

Do we need to go back to what happened then?

Arabs and Jews lived in Mandatory Palestine.

The U.N. proposed a 2 state solution.

The Jews accepted the partition plan. The Arab League rejected it and declared war. And it wasn’t on behalf of the Palestinians; it was Egypt and Syria trying to pursue their own expansionist goals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread is derailing. Does anyone want to talk about the Israeli - Lebanese situation or just throw insults at one another?

Here are my other questions:

1) There is no precision targeting going on (I have seen this first hand from a friend with family in Lebanon. Why does the media keep referring to “Israel attacks Herbollah” when it’s “Israel attacks Lebanon”

2) how does Israel’s actions make me (a US Jew) safer? Just see all the anger the IdF killing has stirred up on the board

3) how does Israel’s actions bring the hostages home?

Israel has been incredibly precise by every measure and civilian casualties in Lebanon well below the accepted levels used by the US when it goes to war. Obviously, very civilian casualty is tragic. But no, a Hezbollah terrorist group member killed isn’t a civilian.

As for hostages, that’s on Hamas. Why does Israel have to do all the work for everything while the terrorist group Hamas has no accountability. Hamas could have returned hostages on October 8. It didn’t have to execute any of them. But it did. Stop holding Israel to an absurd standard that would never be applied to any other country in the world.

No one believes your Zionist propaganda any longer. Israel has developed quite an appetite for the indiscriminate killing of civilians all over the region. It is hated for good reason, and the leadership of Israel deserves to be detained, tried by international authorities, and punished appropriately. Netanyahu and his henchmen are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

DP

FTR, not a Zionist…just a cafeteria catholic American gal who recognizes that neck of the woods has been a powder keg for hundreds of years. My priority will always be America and our interests…including things like human rights, freedom of religion, democracy, rule of law, etc.

The reality is other Arab nations appreciate the role Israel plays. The civilized nations are covertly supporting Israel. Nobody wants Iran and its terrorist thugs. Nobody.

Lebanon and Gaza need leaders who embrace western values. And Israel needs new leadership as well. I suggest younger Gen X leadership—ideally people who went to Uni in the US or UK. Heck, wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and install 3 women.

The official leaders of Lebanon and Palestine are less of the issue.

The problem is both places have been taken over by Iran proxy groups that are hellbent on destruction.

The Israeli government needs to be voted out and returned to a leftist leadership. Someone like Rabin.

Right.

So root out the terrorists, install new leadership in all 3 countries, and have a zero tolerance policy on religious extremism, militant groups, etc.

People need safety first. That takes enforcement coupled with leadership to implement western values. It will take a couple generations to change hearts and minds. Evolution is hard.

Put yourself in the shoes of a Lebanese citizen. Since you are posting on DCUM I will say you are a professional woman in her 40s with 2 kids. In Lebanon - an extremely cosmopolitan and educated country you would probably be in a similar situation. So let's say you are a doctor working in Beirut. Your parents have retired to an apartment community in the south after the government froze their assets in the bank a few years ago so they could life more frugally. Your parents' apartment has been blown up. You can't get in touch with them. You are frantic. Meanwhile your kids are not in school this week and are watching the news with their friends and getting more and more agitated. In fact, last night your teenage son told you he feels like he needs to do something to defend his country. At the same time you are treating a number of critically ill patients recovering from the pager attacks. Yes, a couple are men in their 30s, but there is also a child and a woman. It's not clear to you these are terrorists. Also, you remember sheltering in the basement of your building during the Civil war in the 80s and the sounds of the explosions on the news make you freeze in PTSD symptoms. You never hated Israel before but they are attacking you and your family NOW. You always admired the US (you've gone to visit your cousin who lives there several times and really enjoyed meeting her friends) but they are supplying the bombs that are attacking you NOW. And your cousin tells you the news media there is reporting that Israel is defending itself against Hezbollah...you are not Hezbollah so you cannot comprehend this is the view. You are scared. You are angry.

Considering all of this can you really not see the danger of what Israel is doing, let alone the inhumanity.

I know good people living in Lebanon, so I understand and empathize.

But I also know that Hezbollah has amassed an arsenal of weapons and has been firing missiles at Israel since October 8. The missiles are from Iran-backed factories in Syria. It’s not good. ICYMI: religious extremists backed by iran are the enemy…including to the people of Lebanon.

What’s your solution?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread is derailing. Does anyone want to talk about the Israeli - Lebanese situation or just throw insults at one another?

Here are my other questions:

1) There is no precision targeting going on (I have seen this first hand from a friend with family in Lebanon. Why does the media keep referring to “Israel attacks Herbollah” when it’s “Israel attacks Lebanon”

2) how does Israel’s actions make me (a US Jew) safer? Just see all the anger the IdF killing has stirred up on the board

3) how does Israel’s actions bring the hostages home?

Israel has been incredibly precise by every measure and civilian casualties in Lebanon well below the accepted levels used by the US when it goes to war. Obviously, very civilian casualty is tragic. But no, a Hezbollah terrorist group member killed isn’t a civilian.

As for hostages, that’s on Hamas. Why does Israel have to do all the work for everything while the terrorist group Hamas has no accountability. Hamas could have returned hostages on October 8. It didn’t have to execute any of them. But it did. Stop holding Israel to an absurd standard that would never be applied to any other country in the world.

No one believes your Zionist propaganda any longer. Israel has developed quite an appetite for the indiscriminate killing of civilians all over the region. It is hated for good reason, and the leadership of Israel deserves to be detained, tried by international authorities, and punished appropriately. Netanyahu and his henchmen are criminals and should be dealt with as such.

DP

FTR, not a Zionist…just a cafeteria catholic American gal who recognizes that neck of the woods has been a powder keg for hundreds of years. My priority will always be America and our interests…including things like human rights, freedom of religion, democracy, rule of law, etc.

The reality is other Arab nations appreciate the role Israel plays. The civilized nations are covertly supporting Israel. Nobody wants Iran and its terrorist thugs. Nobody.

Lebanon and Gaza need leaders who embrace western values. And Israel needs new leadership as well. I suggest younger Gen X leadership—ideally people who went to Uni in the US or UK. Heck, wouldn’t it be great if we could wave a magic wand and install 3 women.

The official leaders of Lebanon and Palestine are less of the issue.

The problem is both places have been taken over by Iran proxy groups that are hellbent on destruction.

The Israeli government needs to be voted out and returned to a leftist leadership. Someone like Rabin.

Right.

So root out the terrorists, install new leadership in all 3 countries, and have a zero tolerance policy on religious extremism, militant groups, etc.

People need safety first. That takes enforcement coupled with leadership to implement western values. It will take a couple generations to change hearts and minds. Evolution is hard.

Put yourself in the shoes of a Lebanese citizen. Since you are posting on DCUM I will say you are a professional woman in her 40s with 2 kids. In Lebanon - an extremely cosmopolitan and educated country you would probably be in a similar situation. So let's say you are a doctor working in Beirut. Your parents have retired to an apartment community in the south after the government froze their assets in the bank a few years ago so they could life more frugally. Your parents' apartment has been blown up. You can't get in touch with them. You are frantic. Meanwhile your kids are not in school this week and are watching the news with their friends and getting more and more agitated. In fact, last night your teenage son told you he feels like he needs to do something to defend his country. At the same time you are treating a number of critically ill patients recovering from the pager attacks. Yes, a couple are men in their 30s, but there is also a child and a woman. It's not clear to you these are terrorists. Also, you remember sheltering in the basement of your building during the Civil war in the 80s and the sounds of the explosions on the news make you freeze in PTSD symptoms. You never hated Israel before but they are attacking you and your family NOW. You always admired the US (you've gone to visit your cousin who lives there several times and really enjoyed meeting her friends) but they are supplying the bombs that are attacking you NOW. And your cousin tells you the news media there is reporting that Israel is defending itself against Hezbollah...you are not Hezbollah so you cannot comprehend this is the view. You are scared. You are angry.

Considering all of this can you really not see the danger of what Israel is doing, let alone the inhumanity.

I know good people living in Lebanon, so I understand and empathize.

But I also know that Hezbollah has amassed an arsenal of weapons and has been firing missiles at Israel since October 8. The missiles are from Iran-backed factories in Syria. It’s not good. ICYMI: religious extremists backed by iran are the enemy…including to the people of Lebanon.

What’s your solution?

EXACTLY.

People don’t get that Hezbollah isn’t acting on behalf of the Lebanese people. They’re acting on behalf of Iran.

They got 15% of the seats in the Lebanese parliament. Barely anyone in Lebanon likes them.