APS Closing Nottingham

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^. Sorry meant to clarify that I think the County thinks schools already get enough. That is the “they” above in “they think.”

Yes. And they are correct. Our community centers are heavily used. Time for the County to ante-up with expanding the community centers (so they can be split-use like our high school facilities are) or commit to giving APS the land or other options and assistance it needs.

Our community centers are heavily used, but they are “nice to haves”. The state constitution says the county has the responsibility to provide a free and appropriate public education. It is one of their core responsibilities.

Art centers, playgroup space, fitness facilities - those are all nice to have and some people feel entitled to them, but there is no constitutional responsibility for the county to provide any of that. It is not a core duty. Moreover, we are not short for any of these things in Arlington in the private sector or even in the public sector that we couldn’t let 1 CC go.

This is really mind blowing to me. Yes, it's shocking how many people feel entitled to amenities when they pay taxes. What a bunch of entitled jerks. Don't they know they should just do without so that more schools can be built to be under enrolled???

You sound like you're made for politics. Please run on this platform. It will be a real winner.

Read.The.State.Constitution. It’s very clear what the priorities for county governments are.

The state constitution does not require the County to turn over community centers to APS. I'm sorry you are so confused.

The state constitution actually says nothing about community centers, because they are not a core function of county government. Sorry. Planet Fitness is only $10/month last I checked.

Please hire a lawyer. You are on to something. This is very sound thinking and arguing. Tell all your friends.

Haha! I think they’d agree Boomers are off their rocker if they think they are entitled to government-subsidized Zumba.

[Anonymous]

You guys understand that swing space APS is proposing to use Nottingham for is swing space specifically dedicated to school use, right? I don't understand why folks are worried about losing Nottingham during the swing space use since it will be specifically for renovation of other schools.

I understand the longer term worry of losing the school after it's needed as a swing space. but enrollment in 22207 will probably go up by the time that happens and catch back up to 2017 levels -- we're talking 5 to 10 years out, I really think it will be needed by then. All this hubub over something that's probably going to be a very transitory change. But I'd expect nothing less of Nottingham parents tbh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^. Sorry meant to clarify that I think the County thinks schools already get enough. That is the “they” above in “they think.”

Yes. And they are correct. Our community centers are heavily used. Time for the County to ante-up with expanding the community centers (so they can be split-use like our high school facilities are) or commit to giving APS the land or other options and assistance it needs.

Our community centers are heavily used, but they are “nice to haves”. The state constitution says the county has the responsibility to provide a free and appropriate public education. It is one of their core responsibilities.

Art centers, playgroup space, fitness facilities - those are all nice to have and some people feel entitled to them, but there is no constitutional responsibility for the county to provide any of that. It is not a core duty. Moreover, we are not short for any of these things in Arlington in the private sector or even in the public sector that we couldn’t let 1 CC go.

This is really mind blowing to me. Yes, it's shocking how many people feel entitled to amenities when they pay taxes. What a bunch of entitled jerks. Don't they know they should just do without so that more schools can be built to be under enrolled???

You sound like you're made for politics. Please run on this platform. It will be a real winner.

Read.The.State.Constitution. It’s very clear what the priorities for county governments are.

Do you know how stupid you make yourself sound when you Type. Like. This?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^. Sorry meant to clarify that I think the County thinks schools already get enough. That is the “they” above in “they think.”

Yes. And they are correct. Our community centers are heavily used. Time for the County to ante-up with expanding the community centers (so they can be split-use like our high school facilities are) or commit to giving APS the land or other options and assistance it needs.

Our community centers are heavily used, but they are “nice to haves”. The state constitution says the county has the responsibility to provide a free and appropriate public education. It is one of their core responsibilities.

Art centers, playgroup space, fitness facilities - those are all nice to have and some people feel entitled to them, but there is no constitutional responsibility for the county to provide any of that. It is not a core duty. Moreover, we are not short for any of these things in Arlington in the private sector or even in the public sector that we couldn’t let 1 CC go.

This is really mind blowing to me. Yes, it's shocking how many people feel entitled to amenities when they pay taxes. What a bunch of entitled jerks. Don't they know they should just do without so that more schools can be built to be under enrolled???

You sound like you're made for politics. Please run on this platform. It will be a real winner.

Read.The.State.Constitution. It’s very clear what the priorities for county governments are.

The state constitution does not require the County to turn over community centers to APS. I'm sorry you are so confused.

The state constitution actually says nothing about community centers, because they are not a core function of county government. Sorry. Planet Fitness is only $10/month last I checked.

This asinine “plan” isn’t happening. Sorry, Nottingham. It’s your turn to feel the pinch for once.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^. Sorry meant to clarify that I think the County thinks schools already get enough. That is the “they” above in “they think.”

Yes. And they are correct. Our community centers are heavily used. Time for the County to ante-up with expanding the community centers (so they can be split-use like our high school facilities are) or commit to giving APS the land or other options and assistance it needs.

Our community centers are heavily used, but they are “nice to haves”. The state constitution says the county has the responsibility to provide a free and appropriate public education. It is one of their core responsibilities.

Art centers, playgroup space, fitness facilities - those are all nice to have and some people feel entitled to them, but there is no constitutional responsibility for the county to provide any of that. It is not a core duty. Moreover, we are not short for any of these things in Arlington in the private sector or even in the public sector that we couldn’t let 1 CC go.

This is really mind blowing to me. Yes, it's shocking how many people feel entitled to amenities when they pay taxes. What a bunch of entitled jerks. Don't they know they should just do without so that more schools can be built to be under enrolled???

You sound like you're made for politics. Please run on this platform. It will be a real winner.

Read.The.State.Constitution. It’s very clear what the priorities for county governments are.

The state constitution does not require the County to turn over community centers to APS. I'm sorry you are so confused.

The state constitution actually says nothing about community centers, because they are not a core function of county government. Sorry. Planet Fitness is only $10/month last I checked.

Please hire a lawyer. You are on to something. This is very sound thinking and arguing. Tell all your friends.

Haha! I think they’d agree Boomers are off their rocker if they think they are entitled to government-subsidized Zumba.

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Libby Garvey is never giving up Fairlington. Not til she’s made a decision not to run again.

Don’t even get me started on Libby Garvey. Not too long ago she suggested that APS could use the Crystal City underground for new schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:all the discussion about whether or not Nottingham is appropriate for swing space is really missing the point of why APS is proposing closing it. APS is proposing closing Nottingham b/c it is underenrolled- as are the surrounding schools. The last month APS published enrollment statistics was February. Nottingham had 382 students with a capacity of 513. Tuckahoe had 429 students with a capacity of 545. (I'm intentionally leaving preschool out of this conversation). Discovery 493 students with a capacity of 630. Cardinal 701 with a capacity of 732. Close Nottingham and 281 of those students are easily absorbed. Going slightly futher- Jamestown had 437 with a capacity of 597. Shift the discovery boundary to move units back to Jamestown- and the rest of Nottingham goes to discovery.
The swing space is to say that APS is going to continue to own it rather than sell or give it to the county to use as parkland/ a community center etc.
Closing one of those schools is good fiscal management- operating buildings and schools way under capacity is not prudent. Honestly, you can make the case for closing Tuckahoe too- (not closing both Nottingham and Tuckahoe- but one of them).

Perhaps. But they chose Nottingham because its walk zone overlaps with two other walk zones - Tuckahoe and Discovery.
That's why it makes sense it's Nottingham.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the stats, all schools are significantly under their capacity when trailers are added in. Some schools (like Key) are over their permanent capacity but under their "with trailers" capacity. And you can't really redistribute that problem at an option school like Key anyway. A few southern schools are over permanent capacity but nothing like the 100 kids overage that Key currently has.

Key words "when trailers are added in"

Take out the trailers and then let's talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS is smart use this period of lower elementary enrollment to get some swing space and renovate schools badly in need of it. Then they can reopen as a neighborhood elementary when enrollment requires it! Smart not to give up the building.

Great idea in theory, but we all know that it will take 10+ years with a dragged out redistricting process and $50m+ in needed renovations before Nottingham will be a neighborhood elementary again. This district can’t do anything cheap or fast.

That is why I’m baffled that parents think we should explore building an entire temporary school of trailers. People have officially lost their minds.

I think we should take over Fairlington CC, repurpose it for temporary elementary use, and then convert it to a full state of the art ES to serve the south Arlington community when we’re done renovating whatever is so urgent that it requires Nottingham to shut down to accommodate it.

I recognize that it won’t have all the gold plated amenities of a purpose built school, but I think the kids can manage without a bike shower or a full library on site for a year. Give the locals a discount voucher to Long Bridge.

If we launch a concerted effort at the county board, we can wrap this up within a year.

!!??
Kids near fairlington don’t need a library. All so Nottingham kids don’t have to walk to Discovery and Tuckahoe?? Both lovely schools with great amenities?? You Nottingham people never disappoint.

And you anti-Nottingham people apparently don’t take the time to read and are prone to fabulous misquoting when it serves your bias.

I am proposing that Fairlington CC be used as a “swing space”. That the students there TEMPORARILY use something like a bookmobile, limited library, or branch library in lieu of having their own Library of Alexandria FOR ONE YEAR. That the 1 teacher who might bike to the location invest in some body wipes instead of a full bike shower. (That was a “must have” on the amenities list btw).

When the swing space needs are done, which I expect will be soon since they are SO URGENT, the fine students of Fairlington would have whatever 3-story open atrium LEED Gold masterpiece of a library will fit on the site.

Does that help? Or do you have another “gotcha” in your bag?

I like the part of your idea that puts a new ES in south Arlington, where it is desperately needed. However, if I've got this right, you're proposing that the county shutter a south Arlington community center, invest resources to retrofit it as a temporary school, and convert it to a new state-of-the-art school while students are in it.

Your suggestion to put Fairlington kids into a situation like this overlooks the fact that the Abingdon community already did exactly that within the last few years. Kids went to school in Abingdon while it was being renovated, and it took longer and was thoroughly disruptive. This is exactly why a countywide swing space is needed, so these sorts of projects can be completed efficiently.

Nottingham is still a far better choice for the swing space because it's under-enrolled and requires no retrofitting at all. You also don't offer any suggestions about how the Fairlington community could access resources offered at the community center once that site becomes an elementary school.

Still spitballing here. The idea is to generally use Fairlington with a minimum of renovations until the swing space needs are done, which apparently will be quick. Breathe. Then renovate Fairlington back to a neighborhood elementary school.

The fitness fanatics can get discount passes to Long Bridge. That should placate the seniors who were sore they weren’t getting full discounts there.

The art people get preference for studios in other county run facilities, assuming they are residents of the county. If not, tough luck.

The preschool can go wherever is space. There is no expectation that the preschool will remain in the neighborhood and per the county the preschools only serve 30% local residents anyway.

The playgroups are probably on hiatus since COVID but I doubt that constituency will be too upset when their neighborhood playgroup space instead becomes a neighborhood school.

The gardeners can go wherever, maybe a county historic house or Madison. Plants grow everywhere, even deserts. I don’t know they have any full time on location staff that needs to be accommodated.

Yes, it costs money, but apparently we need space down there. Best to rip the bandaid off and start making it happen. We can always convert the CC back to fitness center if it turns out the enrollment drops. Less of a lift than converting back a school.

NP.

The Fairlington Community Center is a County facility and managed by Parks and Rec. This idea is so laughable and is why I feel bad for the APS staff they have to waste brain cells listening to this kind of naive crap. I work for the County. Your suggestion is not happening. It may come as a surprise but there are MANY people in this County who do not give a shite about APS and use their rec centers for many things (some which you haven't even listed above) and no they're not going to sit quietly while the County gives it to APS for swing space. And no the playgroups are not on hiatus.

Not happening. Ever. Non-starter. Next.

If the idea is so laughable then why is it on the list?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do they really need elementary capacity in the South? It doesn't make sense to me to redo boundaries if basically everyone is fine except there's a bunch of extra capacity centered around 22207. If that's the case then just do this swing space proposal APS wants and then go from there. No need to redo everything just so Nottingham and surrounding underenrollment can be spread out.

Yes they need seats in the south.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^. Sorry meant to clarify that I think the County thinks schools already get enough. That is the “they” above in “they think.”

Yes. And they are correct. Our community centers are heavily used. Time for the County to ante-up with expanding the community centers (so they can be split-use like our high school facilities are) or commit to giving APS the land or other options and assistance it needs.

Our community centers are heavily used, but they are “nice to haves”. The state constitution says the county has the responsibility to provide a free and appropriate public education. It is one of their core responsibilities.

Art centers, playgroup space, fitness facilities - those are all nice to have and some people feel entitled to them, but there is no constitutional responsibility for the county to provide any of that. It is not a core duty. Moreover, we are not short for any of these things in Arlington in the private sector or even in the public sector that we couldn’t let 1 CC go.

This is really mind blowing to me. Yes, it's shocking how many people feel entitled to amenities when they pay taxes. What a bunch of entitled jerks. Don't they know they should just do without so that more schools can be built to be under enrolled???

You sound like you're made for politics. Please run on this platform. It will be a real winner.

Read.The.State.Constitution. It’s very clear what the priorities for county governments are.

please enlighten us

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^. Sorry meant to clarify that I think the County thinks schools already get enough. That is the “they” above in “they think.”

Yes. And they are correct. Our community centers are heavily used. Time for the County to ante-up with expanding the community centers (so they can be split-use like our high school facilities are) or commit to giving APS the land or other options and assistance it needs.

Our community centers are heavily used, but they are “nice to haves”. The state constitution says the county has the responsibility to provide a free and appropriate public education. It is one of their core responsibilities.

Art centers, playgroup space, fitness facilities - those are all nice to have and some people feel entitled to them, but there is no constitutional responsibility for the county to provide any of that. It is not a core duty. Moreover, we are not short for any of these things in Arlington in the private sector or even in the public sector that we couldn’t let 1 CC go.

No, this is just plain wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do they really need elementary capacity in the South? It doesn't make sense to me to redo boundaries if basically everyone is fine except there's a bunch of extra capacity centered around 22207. If that's the case then just do this swing space proposal APS wants and then go from there. No need to redo everything just so Nottingham and surrounding underenrollment can be spread out.

Yes they need seats in the south.

Where? If you don’t know, I’ll know you’re just a Nottingham parent trying to use the south for selfish purposes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS is smart use this period of lower elementary enrollment to get some swing space and renovate schools badly in need of it. Then they can reopen as a neighborhood elementary when enrollment requires it! Smart not to give up the building.

Great idea in theory, but we all know that it will take 10+ years with a dragged out redistricting process and $50m+ in needed renovations before Nottingham will be a neighborhood elementary again. This district can’t do anything cheap or fast.

That is why I’m baffled that parents think we should explore building an entire temporary school of trailers. People have officially lost their minds.

I think we should take over Fairlington CC, repurpose it for temporary elementary use, and then convert it to a full state of the art ES to serve the south Arlington community when we’re done renovating whatever is so urgent that it requires Nottingham to shut down to accommodate it.

I recognize that it won’t have all the gold plated amenities of a purpose built school, but I think the kids can manage without a bike shower or a full library on site for a year. Give the locals a discount voucher to Long Bridge.

If we launch a concerted effort at the county board, we can wrap this up within a year.

!!??
Kids near fairlington don’t need a library. All so Nottingham kids don’t have to walk to Discovery and Tuckahoe?? Both lovely schools with great amenities?? You Nottingham people never disappoint.

And you anti-Nottingham people apparently don’t take the time to read and are prone to fabulous misquoting when it serves your bias.

I am proposing that Fairlington CC be used as a “swing space”. That the students there TEMPORARILY use something like a bookmobile, limited library, or branch library in lieu of having their own Library of Alexandria FOR ONE YEAR. That the 1 teacher who might bike to the location invest in some body wipes instead of a full bike shower. (That was a “must have” on the amenities list btw).

When the swing space needs are done, which I expect will be soon since they are SO URGENT, the fine students of Fairlington would have whatever 3-story open atrium LEED Gold masterpiece of a library will fit on the site.

Does that help? Or do you have another “gotcha” in your bag?

I like the part of your idea that puts a new ES in south Arlington, where it is desperately needed. However, if I've got this right, you're proposing that the county shutter a south Arlington community center, invest resources to retrofit it as a temporary school, and convert it to a new state-of-the-art school while students are in it.

Your suggestion to put Fairlington kids into a situation like this overlooks the fact that the Abingdon community already did exactly that within the last few years. Kids went to school in Abingdon while it was being renovated, and it took longer and was thoroughly disruptive. This is exactly why a countywide swing space is needed, so these sorts of projects can be completed efficiently.

Nottingham is still a far better choice for the swing space because it's under-enrolled and requires no retrofitting at all. You also don't offer any suggestions about how the Fairlington community could access resources offered at the community center once that site becomes an elementary school.

Still spitballing here. The idea is to generally use Fairlington with a minimum of renovations until the swing space needs are done, which apparently will be quick. Breathe. Then renovate Fairlington back to a neighborhood elementary school.

The fitness fanatics can get discount passes to Long Bridge. That should placate the seniors who were sore they weren’t getting full discounts there.

The art people get preference for studios in other county run facilities, assuming they are residents of the county. If not, tough luck.

The preschool can go wherever is space. There is no expectation that the preschool will remain in the neighborhood and per the county the preschools only serve 30% local residents anyway.

The playgroups are probably on hiatus since COVID but I doubt that constituency will be too upset when their neighborhood playgroup space instead becomes a neighborhood school.

The gardeners can go wherever, maybe a county historic house or Madison. Plants grow everywhere, even deserts. I don’t know they have any full time on location staff that needs to be accommodated.

Yes, it costs money, but apparently we need space down there. Best to rip the bandaid off and start making it happen. We can always convert the CC back to fitness center if it turns out the enrollment drops. Less of a lift than converting back a school.

NP.

The Fairlington Community Center is a County facility and managed by Parks and Rec. This idea is so laughable and is why I feel bad for the APS staff they have to waste brain cells listening to this kind of naive crap. I work for the County. Your suggestion is not happening. It may come as a surprise but there are MANY people in this County who do not give a shite about APS and use their rec centers for many things (some which you haven't even listed above) and no they're not going to sit quietly while the County gives it to APS for swing space. And no the playgroups are not on hiatus.

Not happening. Ever. Non-starter. Next.

If the idea is so laughable then why is it on the list?

DP. Are you talking about the list of county facilities APS compiled within the past decade for potential use as ES? I think it was just a list of public facilities and not all of them are really on the table. They def aren’t taking away a community center, for reasons mentioned upthread. I view it as kind of a throwaway list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS is smart use this period of lower elementary enrollment to get some swing space and renovate schools badly in need of it. Then they can reopen as a neighborhood elementary when enrollment requires it! Smart not to give up the building.

Great idea in theory, but we all know that it will take 10+ years with a dragged out redistricting process and $50m+ in needed renovations before Nottingham will be a neighborhood elementary again. This district can’t do anything cheap or fast.

That is why I’m baffled that parents think we should explore building an entire temporary school of trailers. People have officially lost their minds.

I think we should take over Fairlington CC, repurpose it for temporary elementary use, and then convert it to a full state of the art ES to serve the south Arlington community when we’re done renovating whatever is so urgent that it requires Nottingham to shut down to accommodate it.

I recognize that it won’t have all the gold plated amenities of a purpose built school, but I think the kids can manage without a bike shower or a full library on site for a year. Give the locals a discount voucher to Long Bridge.

If we launch a concerted effort at the county board, we can wrap this up within a year.

!!??
Kids near fairlington don’t need a library. All so Nottingham kids don’t have to walk to Discovery and Tuckahoe?? Both lovely schools with great amenities?? You Nottingham people never disappoint.

And you anti-Nottingham people apparently don’t take the time to read and are prone to fabulous misquoting when it serves your bias.

I am proposing that Fairlington CC be used as a “swing space”. That the students there TEMPORARILY use something like a bookmobile, limited library, or branch library in lieu of having their own Library of Alexandria FOR ONE YEAR. That the 1 teacher who might bike to the location invest in some body wipes instead of a full bike shower. (That was a “must have” on the amenities list btw).

When the swing space needs are done, which I expect will be soon since they are SO URGENT, the fine students of Fairlington would have whatever 3-story open atrium LEED Gold masterpiece of a library will fit on the site.

Does that help? Or do you have another “gotcha” in your bag?

I like the part of your idea that puts a new ES in south Arlington, where it is desperately needed. However, if I've got this right, you're proposing that the county shutter a south Arlington community center, invest resources to retrofit it as a temporary school, and convert it to a new state-of-the-art school while students are in it.

Your suggestion to put Fairlington kids into a situation like this overlooks the fact that the Abingdon community already did exactly that within the last few years. Kids went to school in Abingdon while it was being renovated, and it took longer and was thoroughly disruptive. This is exactly why a countywide swing space is needed, so these sorts of projects can be completed efficiently.

Nottingham is still a far better choice for the swing space because it's under-enrolled and requires no retrofitting at all. You also don't offer any suggestions about how the Fairlington community could access resources offered at the community center once that site becomes an elementary school.

Still spitballing here. The idea is to generally use Fairlington with a minimum of renovations until the swing space needs are done, which apparently will be quick. Breathe. Then renovate Fairlington back to a neighborhood elementary school.

The fitness fanatics can get discount passes to Long Bridge. That should placate the seniors who were sore they weren’t getting full discounts there.

The art people get preference for studios in other county run facilities, assuming they are residents of the county. If not, tough luck.

The preschool can go wherever is space. There is no expectation that the preschool will remain in the neighborhood and per the county the preschools only serve 30% local residents anyway.

The playgroups are probably on hiatus since COVID but I doubt that constituency will be too upset when their neighborhood playgroup space instead becomes a neighborhood school.

The gardeners can go wherever, maybe a county historic house or Madison. Plants grow everywhere, even deserts. I don’t know they have any full time on location staff that needs to be accommodated.

Yes, it costs money, but apparently we need space down there. Best to rip the bandaid off and start making it happen. We can always convert the CC back to fitness center if it turns out the enrollment drops. Less of a lift than converting back a school.

NP.

The Fairlington Community Center is a County facility and managed by Parks and Rec. This idea is so laughable and is why I feel bad for the APS staff they have to waste brain cells listening to this kind of naive crap. I work for the County. Your suggestion is not happening. It may come as a surprise but there are MANY people in this County who do not give a shite about APS and use their rec centers for many things (some which you haven't even listed above) and no they're not going to sit quietly while the County gives it to APS for swing space. And no the playgroups are not on hiatus.

Not happening. Ever. Non-starter. Next.

If the idea is so laughable then why is it on the list?

DP. Are you talking about the list of county facilities APS compiled within the past decade for potential use as ES? I think it was just a list of public facilities and not all of them are really on the table. They def aren’t taking away a community center, for reasons mentioned upthread. I view it as kind of a throwaway list.

No I'm talking about the actual list that APS released of 8 sites that could viably be used as the swing space. It's all in their report. Maybe you should read it.