Another gunman, another elementary school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not fair to beat up these LEOs. We don't know the situation at all. Once the guy is in you can't really just barge in without having a plan. The shooter already was in - that room was totally shot up. I mean once he's locked into a room he's not going anywhere and the damage is done. You have to ensure the safety of everyone else in there. You can't just go in and shoot it up so they followed protocol and waited for SWAT. It's not like the movies people. I would suggest the right questions are why he's able to get in at all. You can fault not getting him in outside of the school but once he's in and barricaded there's not much you can do. I don't know if they knew he was barricaded or not but look at any other shooting at as school and the shooters either Jill themselves inside the school or outside the school. Or if you are already inside and can engage them but to blindly just go in shooting is not really sensible. I think it's easier to be angry in hindsight but in the moment they had to be sure they could get him. Of course it's infuriating this could happen at all, it's absolutely horrific he could be in and get into a room at all. But really you don't know the reason they waited to go in and maybe they were getting other kids out in the meantime which is the best they could have done.

This is standard practice. I did my first active shooter training when I started teaching at JHU. The trainer was a retired LEO and he told us "you need to understand this is not the movies. No one is coming to save you. It's most likely that you will encounter law enforcement after the shooting stops." There is so much magical thinking about what officers can do in situations where a murderer can kill so many in such a short amount of time, when they can shatter doors (my child's school sent out a long message about school security, but they still have those glass doors that a shooter could be through in seconds), and that's not even getting into the body armor (the security guard in Buffalo hit the shooter but still couldn't stop him). And, if LEOs are more aggressive they will risk friendly fire deaths.

The local police funded a tactical team with tactical gear — who apparently did nothing. I’d also be willing to wager that the local sheriff and Texas Rangers have their own response teams. What exactly were they doing? Giving tours to Ted Cruz at the border?

I will tell you what I think happened. Texas local and state law enforcement would not enter the school and started tackling parents. These parent texted CBP officers who have kids at the school. They showed up armed and determined to save their kids. CBP took action and would have shot anyone including Texas law enforcement who got in their way.

The CBP BORTAC unit is stationed 500 miles away in El Paso. This isn’t adding up.

BRW this is the same paramilitary group linked to gross civil rights abuses in Portland during the George Floyd protests. Excessive force. Abducting ptoresters in black vans. Etc.

They may have been helicoptered in. It sounds like it took an hour for them to arrive.

This story is insane. And I'm going to agree with the other poster who said CBP officers were probably texted directly by other parents. There's so much more to this story that isn't being said yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I see in the comments here are a lot of folks who are very unfamiliar with firearms.

Nothing is effective against a fully loaded with high capacity magazine AR-15 except another fully loaded with high capacity magazine AR-15. If cops armed with standard issue 9mm handgun or even riot shotguns had chased after him into that classroom, there would just be a few more funerals to arrange with color guard and mass police presence in the mourning party.

We need to renew the federal assault weapons ban as supported by law enforcement agencies for decades. They know better than anyone how little they can do to protect us when the enemy is locked and loaded with assault rifles and tech 9s.

Arent modifiable guns and their modifications parts also an issue? If yes, why cant we stop manufacture of this and make it illegal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just replied above but cannot edit: so is it reasonable to conclude that the police were afraid of injury to themselves and decided to sacrifice those kids? If they weren’t locked out, why did they not enter? Why did they bar unarmed parents, in slippers and shorts, no armor, from entry?

Because they were afraid for themselves. Give me anything else to believe. I can’t begin to grapple with this. I’m unaware of a similar example.

It makes sense to not allow unarmed parents to enter a situation like that; you stand a high chance of having dead parents.

What I do not understand is why the police did not enter the school. Frankly, given how long it took any law enforcement to enter the school, the gunman could have massacred that entire school, had he decided to enter additional classrooms.

[Anonymous]

The cops could have bought the teachers more time to lock/barricade the classroom door and get the kids out of sight. 60 seconds could have meant everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not fair to beat up these LEOs. We don't know the situation at all. Once the guy is in you can't really just barge in without having a plan. The shooter already was in - that room was totally shot up. I mean once he's locked into a room he's not going anywhere and the damage is done. You have to ensure the safety of everyone else in there. You can't just go in and shoot it up so they followed protocol and waited for SWAT. It's not like the movies people. I would suggest the right questions are why he's able to get in at all. You can fault not getting him in outside of the school but once he's in and barricaded there's not much you can do. I don't know if they knew he was barricaded or not but look at any other shooting at as school and the shooters either Jill themselves inside the school or outside the school. Or if you are already inside and can engage them but to blindly just go in shooting is not really sensible. I think it's easier to be angry in hindsight but in the moment they had to be sure they could get him. Of course it's infuriating this could happen at all, it's absolutely horrific he could be in and get into a room at all. But really you don't know the reason they waited to go in and maybe they were getting other kids out in the meantime which is the best they could have done.

This is standard practice. I did my first active shooter training when I started teaching at JHU. The trainer was a retired LEO and he told us "you need to understand this is not the movies. No one is coming to save you. It's most likely that you will encounter law enforcement after the shooting stops." There is so much magical thinking about what officers can do in situations where a murderer can kill so many in such a short amount of time, when they can shatter doors (my child's school sent out a long message about school security, but they still have those glass doors that a shooter could be through in seconds), and that's not even getting into the body armor (the security guard in Buffalo hit the shooter but still couldn't stop him). And, if LEOs are more aggressive they will risk friendly fire deaths.

The local police funded a tactical team with tactical gear — who apparently did nothing. I’d also be willing to wager that the local sheriff and Texas Rangers have their own response teams. What exactly were they doing? Giving tours to Ted Cruz at the border?

I will tell you what I think happened. Texas local and state law enforcement would not enter the school and started tackling parents. These parent texted CBP officers who have kids at the school. They showed up armed and determined to save their kids. CBP took action and would have shot anyone including Texas law enforcement who got in their way.

I bet a lot of parents would have done the same if they could.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just replied above but cannot edit: so is it reasonable to conclude that the police were afraid of injury to themselves and decided to sacrifice those kids? If they weren’t locked out, why did they not enter? Why did they bar unarmed parents, in slippers and shorts, no armor, from entry?

Because they were afraid for themselves. Give me anything else to believe. I can’t begin to grapple with this. I’m unaware of a similar example.

It makes sense to not allow unarmed parents to enter a situation like that; you stand a high chance of having dead parents.

What I do not understand is why the police did not enter the school. Frankly, given how long it took any law enforcement to enter the school, the gunman could have massacred that entire school, had he decided to enter additional classrooms.

So they sacrificed the elementary school. The police decided to let people inside be slaughtered, because they know what assault rifles can do. 90 minutes? I had no idea. Anyone? Is there literally any other conclusion to draw, given that they were in pursuit, to wait? Anyone have an answer that explains this as anything other than a shrug about the value of the lives of those children and educators? Because I don’t see one.

[Anonymous]

So apparently members of the BORTAC team live in Uvalde and answered calls that went out over the radio. It may have been their day off.

Still, it seems that Uvalde is crawling with law enforcement between the local cops and federal agents who call it home.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/border-patrol-agents-who-killed-texas-school-shooter-were-from-agencys-elite-team-11653508857

[Anonymous]

SRO did not even try. Any normally constituted adult would have risked their lives to try to prevent the certain death of many kids. Also the shooter had already shot his grandma. Local schools should have been on lock-down and the SROs should have been ready when he arrived and crashed the truck. Those poor kids died alone hoping someone would come to their rescue.

[Anonymous]

Don't know the politics of these officers but It seems like many law enforcement professionals are pro trump, pro republican, and so pro guns and lots of them. It they want to go up against these assault weapons that they support with their politics then go up against them.....don't wait outside..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SRO did not even try. Any normally constituted adult would have risked their lives to try to prevent the certain death of many kids. Also the shooter had already shot his grandma. Local schools should have been on lock-down and the SROs should have been ready when he arrived and crashed the truck. Those poor kids died alone hoping someone would come to their rescue.

But even apart from that, the police were right on him, correct? And waited an hour and a half? If that is now established fact, there needs to be some kind of federal investigation, public Congressional hearings, and I’d support - with family consent - blurred face photos of the deceased to show AR damage to the victims. This is insane. I’m not aware of this kind of pussy-footing in the response to active shooter scenes. The Uvalde victims were sacrificed in part BY the law enforcement officers on the scene because of their cowardice. Call it what it is!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not fair to beat up these LEOs. We don't know the situation at all. Once the guy is in you can't really just barge in without having a plan. The shooter already was in - that room was totally shot up. I mean once he's locked into a room he's not going anywhere and the damage is done. You have to ensure the safety of everyone else in there. You can't just go in and shoot it up so they followed protocol and waited for SWAT. It's not like the movies people. I would suggest the right questions are why he's able to get in at all. You can fault not getting him in outside of the school but once he's in and barricaded there's not much you can do. I don't know if they knew he was barricaded or not but look at any other shooting at as school and the shooters either Jill themselves inside the school or outside the school. Or if you are already inside and can engage them but to blindly just go in shooting is not really sensible. I think it's easier to be angry in hindsight but in the moment they had to be sure they could get him. Of course it's infuriating this could happen at all, it's absolutely horrific he could be in and get into a room at all. But really you don't know the reason they waited to go in and maybe they were getting other kids out in the meantime which is the best they could have done.

This is standard practice. I did my first active shooter training when I started teaching at JHU. The trainer was a retired LEO and he told us "you need to understand this is not the movies. No one is coming to save you. It's most likely that you will encounter law enforcement after the shooting stops." There is so much magical thinking about what officers can do in situations where a murderer can kill so many in such a short amount of time, when they can shatter doors (my child's school sent out a long message about school security, but they still have those glass doors that a shooter could be through in seconds), and that's not even getting into the body armor (the security guard in Buffalo hit the shooter but still couldn't stop him). And, if LEOs are more aggressive they will risk friendly fire deaths.

The local police funded a tactical team with tactical gear — who apparently did nothing. I’d also be willing to wager that the local sheriff and Texas Rangers have their own response teams. What exactly were they doing? Giving tours to Ted Cruz at the border?

I will tell you what I think happened. Texas local and state law enforcement would not enter the school and started tackling parents. These parent texted CBP officers who have kids at the school. They showed up armed and determined to save their kids. CBP took action and would have shot anyone including Texas law enforcement who got in their way.

The CBP BORTAC unit is stationed 500 miles away in El Paso. This isn’t adding up.

BRW this is the same paramilitary group linked to gross civil rights abuses in Portland during the George Floyd protests. Excessive force. Abducting ptoresters in black vans. Etc.

They may have been helicoptered in. It sounds like it took an hour for them to arrive.

This story is insane. And I'm going to agree with the other poster who said CBP officers were probably texted directly by other parents. There's so much more to this story that isn't being said yet.

Cruising speed of a Blackhawk UH60 is something like 150 mph with a 500 mile range. It’s possible they were deployed to the Del Rio Sector or closer to San Antonio but more info is necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SRO did not even try. Any normally constituted adult would have risked their lives to try to prevent the certain death of many kids. Also the shooter had already shot his grandma. Local schools should have been on lock-down and the SROs should have been ready when he arrived and crashed the truck. Those poor kids died alone hoping someone would come to their rescue.

But even apart from that, the police were right on him, correct? And waited an hour and a half? If that is now established fact, there needs to be some kind of federal investigation, public Congressional hearings, and I’d support - with family consent - blurred face photos of the deceased to show AR damage to the victims. This is insane. I’m not aware of this kind of pussy-footing in the response to active shooter scenes. The Uvalde victims were sacrificed in part BY the law enforcement officers on the scene because of their cowardice. Call it what it is!

I’m pretty sure I would not be willing to release a photo of my dead 10 year old after they had been shot with an assault rifle. The image would stay in the web forever and be used for the most horrible of purposes.

[Anonymous]

If their kids attended the school, they obviously lived in town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SRO did not even try. Any normally constituted adult would have risked their lives to try to prevent the certain death of many kids. Also the shooter had already shot his grandma. Local schools should have been on lock-down and the SROs should have been ready when he arrived and crashed the truck. Those poor kids died alone hoping someone would come to their rescue.

But even apart from that, the police were right on him, correct? And waited an hour and a half? If that is now established fact, there needs to be some kind of federal investigation, public Congressional hearings, and I’d support - with family consent - blurred face photos of the deceased to show AR damage to the victims. This is insane. I’m not aware of this kind of pussy-footing in the response to active shooter scenes. The Uvalde victims were sacrificed in part BY the law enforcement officers on the scene because of their cowardice. Call it what it is!

I’m pretty sure I would not be willing to release a photo of my dead 10 year old after they had been shot with an assault rifle. The image would stay in the web forever and be used for the most horrible of purposes.

Sure, I understand that. I have a 7 year old, I don’t know what I’d do. What about the rest of this? What is going on with this comment thread — does anyone else feel shocked at the lack of engagement of on-scene officers? Anyone else willing to call cowardice out as plain, bald, cowardice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SRO did not even try. Any normally constituted adult would have risked their lives to try to prevent the certain death of many kids. Also the shooter had already shot his grandma. Local schools should have been on lock-down and the SROs should have been ready when he arrived and crashed the truck. Those poor kids died alone hoping someone would come to their rescue.

But even apart from that, the police were right on him, correct? And waited an hour and a half? If that is now established fact, there needs to be some kind of federal investigation, public Congressional hearings, and I’d support - with family consent - blurred face photos of the deceased to show AR damage to the victims. This is insane. I’m not aware of this kind of pussy-footing in the response to active shooter scenes. The Uvalde victims were sacrificed in part BY the law enforcement officers on the scene because of their cowardice. Call it what it is!

I’m pretty sure I would not be willing to release a photo of my dead 10 year old after they had been shot with an assault rifle. The image would stay in the web forever and be used for the most horrible of purposes.

I would absolutely share photos of my kids if their bodies were torn to bits by bullets.

We need to confront people who are unwilling to support common sense gun laws. They need to see the actual blood and guts on their hands.