Is co parenting a woke male trap?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For me, it was a choice between doing all the work and seeing him lay on the couch, or doing all the work and not having him in the house. Yes, it is hard doing all the work, but much less stressful when he is not here in the house doing nothing.

Amen.

Send him back to his mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Example of him parentifying his daughter (and creating anxiety) and he still thinks he’s killing it at parenting.

NP and the tween parentification is a thing in our house. My ex says it’s our Dd’s fault if she’s hungry when he brings her back from visitation because she didn’t ask for meals, and said the reason she doesn’t have toiletries at his house is because she didn’t bring any over for herself to use. He recently got mad at her because she didn’t ask him questions about his life when they went out to eat together.

+1. Seeing him blame his 12 yo for his shortcomings has always been sad to see. So pathetic. And damaging until the kid wakes up and sees his gaslighting and emotional abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not really clear what you are trying to say, but I'll bite.

I divorced my xH because he didn't pull his weight. We have 50/50 custody and it's SO much less work for me. He has a court order to do half the school pickups/dropoffs, half the sick days, etc. Even bigger, I no longer have to cook for or clean up after a grown man. People really have no idea how much FOOD adult men need to be fed, or how their crap gets absolutely everywhere.

Even if he bailed completely, he'd have to pay child support AND I still wouldn't have to cook and clean for him.

I also think a LOT of men step it up when they realize their parenting will be examined in a court room by a judge. It's one thing at home behind closed doors, but another to know it could be brought out in front of complete strangers to judge.

Yes best bet is to go to court. I haven't, because I am scared of my ex and live in a dad's state, no money for court fees. He has them half the time, but doesn't help with appointments and he drops them off with me at 6am to take them to school lol. Better than living with him though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

It depends on the people involved and the quality of the relationship. Someone who absolutely refuses to do any chores at all is just dead weight. But often it's not that dire. Many men who try to turn their wives into their mothers *will* contribute, it's just that they want to be asked to do things and won't take initiative. Or they try to get out of doing especially unpleasant tasks even when they are necessary (changing diapers, toilet training, etc.). Some men are extremely sensitive to ANY criticism, so they'll do stuff but then the second their spouse says anything that could even be perceived as negative, they quit (meanwhile my DH will tell me flat out that I load the dishwasher "wrong" and I will smile and say if he wants it done a specific way, he can do it himself). Yes this is "man baby" behavior but it can sometimes be addressed by just being direct, making it clear what your expectations and limits are, etc.

I also would not tolerate someone nagging me for sex.

A conversation I had to have with my DH quite a bit, especially after we had a kid, is that I didn't want to engage in some performance of 1950s gender roles. Which means that not only do I want to cook and clean while he sits around reading the newspaper, but I also don't tolerate him painting me as a nagging wife for expecting him to clean up after himself, or behaving like he is congenitally incapable of scrubbing a toilet or helping our DD with her hair.

For me it was worth the effort. A lot of this was him reverting to patterns his parents had engaged in or that had been kind of drilled into him by society by osmosis. Forcing a conversation, being really clear about the kind of marriage I wanted, etc., helped a lot.

If it had not, I would have divorced him. But sadly a lot of men really do require "training" because social forces and family cultures have often taught them how to be lazy man babies and no one has ever told them that won't fly.

You seem to be really struggling with the basic fact that lazy men aren't just hapless and untrained. They DON'T want to do their fair share and they WON'T. What do you do then with all your BS about "training"?

Serious question but do you have a job and do you travel?

You have to train men by manipulating them. I’ve gotten far in life both personally and professionally and it’s because I know how to get what I want.

Multiple women I know who complain about their worthless husbands are always home. Men will have you doing everything if you don’t force their hand. You have to have hobbies and/or a job, and leave the house without instructions.

I don't need advice from someone whose IQ is too low to comprehend the ubiquity of utterly selfish men.

Your response makes it obvious why you couldn’t get your DH or ex-DH to co-parent!

Hello there, forum shrew. My life is worth more than playing animal trainer to an adult male. I'm sorry your life is worth less.

These responses are cruel and over the top. There’s no way you didn’t demonstrate this same behavior with your DH. If you speak like this over an internet comment I can’t even imagine how you’d treat someone while married.

You’ll just respond back with another insult and are unable to see how you played any role in your failed marriage.

[Anonymous]

What an echo chamber of total ignorance here.

If you insist on judging all men as a monolith then don’t complain when men act like it. SMH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

It depends on the people involved and the quality of the relationship. Someone who absolutely refuses to do any chores at all is just dead weight. But often it's not that dire. Many men who try to turn their wives into their mothers *will* contribute, it's just that they want to be asked to do things and won't take initiative. Or they try to get out of doing especially unpleasant tasks even when they are necessary (changing diapers, toilet training, etc.). Some men are extremely sensitive to ANY criticism, so they'll do stuff but then the second their spouse says anything that could even be perceived as negative, they quit (meanwhile my DH will tell me flat out that I load the dishwasher "wrong" and I will smile and say if he wants it done a specific way, he can do it himself). Yes this is "man baby" behavior but it can sometimes be addressed by just being direct, making it clear what your expectations and limits are, etc.

I also would not tolerate someone nagging me for sex.

A conversation I had to have with my DH quite a bit, especially after we had a kid, is that I didn't want to engage in some performance of 1950s gender roles. Which means that not only do I want to cook and clean while he sits around reading the newspaper, but I also don't tolerate him painting me as a nagging wife for expecting him to clean up after himself, or behaving like he is congenitally incapable of scrubbing a toilet or helping our DD with her hair.

For me it was worth the effort. A lot of this was him reverting to patterns his parents had engaged in or that had been kind of drilled into him by society by osmosis. Forcing a conversation, being really clear about the kind of marriage I wanted, etc., helped a lot.

If it had not, I would have divorced him. But sadly a lot of men really do require "training" because social forces and family cultures have often taught them how to be lazy man babies and no one has ever told them that won't fly.

You seem to be really struggling with the basic fact that lazy men aren't just hapless and untrained. They DON'T want to do their fair share and they WON'T. What do you do then with all your BS about "training"?

Serious question but do you have a job and do you travel?

You have to train men by manipulating them. I’ve gotten far in life both personally and professionally and it’s because I know how to get what I want.

Multiple women I know who complain about their worthless husbands are always home. Men will have you doing everything if you don’t force their hand. You have to have hobbies and/or a job, and leave the house without instructions.

I don't need advice from someone whose IQ is too low to comprehend the ubiquity of utterly selfish men.

Your response makes it obvious why you couldn’t get your DH or ex-DH to co-parent!

Hello there, forum shrew. My life is worth more than playing animal trainer to an adult male. I'm sorry your life is worth less.

These responses are cruel and over the top. There’s no way you didn’t demonstrate this same behavior with your DH. If you speak like this over an internet comment I can’t even imagine how you’d treat someone while married.

You’ll just respond back with another insult and are unable to see how you played any role in your failed marriage.

What's cruel and over the top is telling women whose husbands put them and their kids through hell that it's their fault. And it's the response here every time, no matter what the story is. I don't know what you get from this, but it's messed up.

[Anonymous]

A lot of women watch the same TikTok videos about "weaponized incompetence" or whatever. I guess I'm the outlier having a lazy exDW who had a mental breakdown when faced with actually taking care of 2 kids by herself. I don't hear about "weaponized incompetence" anymore since it's so easy to just ignore anything not child related during the co-parenting phase.

No idea what's woke about it, but I agree with the PP who said it's doing the same child care but without the deadweight ex-spouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of women watch the same TikTok videos about "weaponized incompetence" or whatever. I guess I'm the outlier having a lazy exDW who had a mental breakdown when faced with actually taking care of 2 kids by herself. I don't hear about "weaponized incompetence" anymore since it's so easy to just ignore anything not child related during the co-parenting phase.

No idea what's woke about it, but I agree with the PP who said it's doing the same child care but without the deadweight ex-spouse.

Who took care of the children when, before the divorce? And after?
I don’t get it. She Jsut avoided doing things for the house and kids at all times?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean this is why many women make the best of marriage. Once you have a kid, you are tied together for life. If there isn't abuse, it can make more sense to just figure out some kind of equilibrium that works, even if it's not fair, and make the best of it.

This is a major reason I chose to only have one kid. Once I discovered what my DH was like as a dad and realized how much would fall to me, I chose to keep my workload as low as possible. My one kid is pretty great though, and I've also coached my DH into being a good father, so I feel I've done right by DD.

This is what sensible women do, have one kid and keep life manageable instead of having kid after kid and keep complaining.

This^. If you've energy to socialize and volunteer, you sure can find time and energy to do extra chores to keep family intact and keep working on improving your husband to become more useful around the house. This is if he is a decent person and a loving dad. Being a single mom and being a kid of divorce aren't the prizes they are made to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

It depends on the people involved and the quality of the relationship. Someone who absolutely refuses to do any chores at all is just dead weight. But often it's not that dire. Many men who try to turn their wives into their mothers *will* contribute, it's just that they want to be asked to do things and won't take initiative. Or they try to get out of doing especially unpleasant tasks even when they are necessary (changing diapers, toilet training, etc.). Some men are extremely sensitive to ANY criticism, so they'll do stuff but then the second their spouse says anything that could even be perceived as negative, they quit (meanwhile my DH will tell me flat out that I load the dishwasher "wrong" and I will smile and say if he wants it done a specific way, he can do it himself). Yes this is "man baby" behavior but it can sometimes be addressed by just being direct, making it clear what your expectations and limits are, etc.

I also would not tolerate someone nagging me for sex.

A conversation I had to have with my DH quite a bit, especially after we had a kid, is that I didn't want to engage in some performance of 1950s gender roles. Which means that not only do I want to cook and clean while he sits around reading the newspaper, but I also don't tolerate him painting me as a nagging wife for expecting him to clean up after himself, or behaving like he is congenitally incapable of scrubbing a toilet or helping our DD with her hair.

For me it was worth the effort. A lot of this was him reverting to patterns his parents had engaged in or that had been kind of drilled into him by society by osmosis. Forcing a conversation, being really clear about the kind of marriage I wanted, etc., helped a lot.

If it had not, I would have divorced him. But sadly a lot of men really do require "training" because social forces and family cultures have often taught them how to be lazy man babies and no one has ever told them that won't fly.

You seem to be really struggling with the basic fact that lazy men aren't just hapless and untrained. They DON'T want to do their fair share and they WON'T. What do you do then with all your BS about "training"?

Serious question but do you have a job and do you travel?

You have to train men by manipulating them. I’ve gotten far in life both personally and professionally and it’s because I know how to get what I want.

Multiple women I know who complain about their worthless husbands are always home. Men will have you doing everything if you don’t force their hand. You have to have hobbies and/or a job, and leave the house without instructions.

I don't need advice from someone whose IQ is too low to comprehend the ubiquity of utterly selfish men.

Your response makes it obvious why you couldn’t get your DH or ex-DH to co-parent!

Hello there, forum shrew. My life is worth more than playing animal trainer to an adult male. I'm sorry your life is worth less.

These responses are cruel and over the top. There’s no way you didn’t demonstrate this same behavior with your DH. If you speak like this over an internet comment I can’t even imagine how you’d treat someone while married.

You’ll just respond back with another insult and are unable to see how you played any role in your failed marriage.

The previous post ate you alive. Just quit and go find some happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What an echo chamber of total ignorance here.

If you insist on judging all men as a monolith then don’t complain when men act like it. SMH

Is your IQ really so low that you think "lazy sociopaths are lazy because you call out their laziness" is an intelligent point?

[Anonymous]

You aren't required to do "woke" coparenting. You just drop off the kids at the assigned time, ignore whatever the ex wife has to say, then go on with your life. Courts don't have time to enforce picture perfect coparenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You aren't required to do "woke" coparenting. You just drop off the kids at the assigned time, ignore whatever the ex wife has to say, then go on with your life. Courts don't have time to enforce picture perfect coparenting.

Just like now! Ignore everything and everyone, do whatever you want. Easy peasy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This morning I was enjoying a morning sleep in when my kids were at my ex's house, but my 10th grader woke up me at 6:30 to ask when I was taking her to the dermatologist.

So I said, well I assumed your dad was taking you, and she sprang it on him, and he was flustered, but he did it.

You just have to drop the rope.

I could say, "Hey, just for the record, please ask me ahead of time if you need my help with doctor's appointments on your days!" and he would say, "Of course, excuse excuse excuse, blah blah blah," and then he would do the same exact thing. The only way to stop doing it for him is to stop doing it for him. I knew he would probably not notice/assume/forget. But I knew that carrying the mental load and reminding him and acting like it was normal of me to worry about this for him at all would just perpetuate the cycle. Break the cycle. He'll figure it out.

Just want to note you can also set boundaries like that while married.

It's much more difficult and exhausting. My xH refused to do chores, and even if I "set boundaries" by refusing to do his half, he just....wouldn't do them. The dishes would pile up on the kitchen counters for days/weeks. If PP was married, the DD would be constantly asking her rather than dad, or dad would sneak out of the house to go to work, etc.

There's been data showing that men, not just married men but even men in workplaces, just don't do things when a woman is present because they assume the woman will handle it. Getting physically away from a man by itself often makes them step up.

Plus, you don't have to deal with a man child constantly nagging you for sex as well.

It depends on the people involved and the quality of the relationship. Someone who absolutely refuses to do any chores at all is just dead weight. But often it's not that dire. Many men who try to turn their wives into their mothers *will* contribute, it's just that they want to be asked to do things and won't take initiative. Or they try to get out of doing especially unpleasant tasks even when they are necessary (changing diapers, toilet training, etc.). Some men are extremely sensitive to ANY criticism, so they'll do stuff but then the second their spouse says anything that could even be perceived as negative, they quit (meanwhile my DH will tell me flat out that I load the dishwasher "wrong" and I will smile and say if he wants it done a specific way, he can do it himself). Yes this is "man baby" behavior but it can sometimes be addressed by just being direct, making it clear what your expectations and limits are, etc.

I also would not tolerate someone nagging me for sex.

A conversation I had to have with my DH quite a bit, especially after we had a kid, is that I didn't want to engage in some performance of 1950s gender roles. Which means that not only do I want to cook and clean while he sits around reading the newspaper, but I also don't tolerate him painting me as a nagging wife for expecting him to clean up after himself, or behaving like he is congenitally incapable of scrubbing a toilet or helping our DD with her hair.

For me it was worth the effort. A lot of this was him reverting to patterns his parents had engaged in or that had been kind of drilled into him by society by osmosis. Forcing a conversation, being really clear about the kind of marriage I wanted, etc., helped a lot.

If it had not, I would have divorced him. But sadly a lot of men really do require "training" because social forces and family cultures have often taught them how to be lazy man babies and no one has ever told them that won't fly.

You seem to be really struggling with the basic fact that lazy men aren't just hapless and untrained. They DON'T want to do their fair share and they WON'T. What do you do then with all your BS about "training"?

Serious question but do you have a job and do you travel?

You have to train men by manipulating them. I’ve gotten far in life both personally and professionally and it’s because I know how to get what I want.

Multiple women I know who complain about their worthless husbands are always home. Men will have you doing everything if you don’t force their hand. You have to have hobbies and/or a job, and leave the house without instructions.

I don't need advice from someone whose IQ is too low to comprehend the ubiquity of utterly selfish men.

Your response makes it obvious why you couldn’t get your DH or ex-DH to co-parent!

Hello there, forum shrew. My life is worth more than playing animal trainer to an adult male. I'm sorry your life is worth less.

These responses are cruel and over the top. There’s no way you didn’t demonstrate this same behavior with your DH. If you speak like this over an internet comment I can’t even imagine how you’d treat someone while married.

You’ll just respond back with another insult and are unable to see how you played any role in your failed marriage.

The previous post ate you alive. Just quit and go find some happiness.

I guess, but I’m happily married with a man who does his share at home and we have a terrific time together.

Unfortunately, women in these bad marriages often can’t accept any advice or consider they could make changes.

[Anonymous]

The trap is the other way around.

Dude does no parenting or care until the courts give him to do 50%. And even then he might ship in his mom, a sitter or new GF.

Either way the kids take it on the chin.