Can boys join Girls On The Run?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Yeah, this poster has some victim mentality for sure, great to see this is what they'll be teaching their sons

Like it or not you cannot force 7 year olds to be intersectional feminists out of the gate. If you actually cared about feminism (as I do) you would take this at face value. But I get it is much more fun to be tribal and superior about it.

What? We're talking about trying to start clubs to give our boys a positive experience. My experience is that most people are not willing to step up to lead stuff, so people with motivation can make things happen most of the time. But you seem pretty sure we are all conspiring to stop you.

Come on just stop. Not everyone has the resources to just “start a club” and anyone who has been even peripherally involved in PTA crap knows that there are many hurdles and possible actual roadblocks. People still get mad if you even dare to say out loud that your boy feels excluded. as evinced on this thread! Plus there is no other area where we would put the burden on the excluded group to fix things. My stance is that the institutions that are supporting all girl organizations need to also be affirmatively supporting all boys groups. If you object to that, ask yourself why.

OK but who makes things happen in "institutions" like volunteer run clubs and the PTA? Other parents in your community. Typically eager for volunteer leaders. How are you using your platform in these institutions to affirmatively support boys groups? Sure, not everyone can start and run a club, but have you tried...anything at all? There is no disembodied cabal running everything.

So you’re still dancing around the unfairness of it.

It's unfair other parents have supported other organizations when you're unwilling to do the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Yeah, this poster has some victim mentality for sure, great to see this is what they'll be teaching their sons

Like it or not you cannot force 7 year olds to be intersectional feminists out of the gate. If you actually cared about feminism (as I do) you would take this at face value. But I get it is much more fun to be tribal and superior about it.

What? We're talking about trying to start clubs to give our boys a positive experience. My experience is that most people are not willing to step up to lead stuff, so people with motivation can make things happen most of the time. But you seem pretty sure we are all conspiring to stop you.

Come on just stop. Not everyone has the resources to just “start a club” and anyone who has been even peripherally involved in PTA crap knows that there are many hurdles and possible actual roadblocks. People still get mad if you even dare to say out loud that your boy feels excluded. as evinced on this thread! Plus there is no other area where we would put the burden on the excluded group to fix things. My stance is that the institutions that are supporting all girl organizations need to also be affirmatively supporting all boys groups. If you object to that, ask yourself why.

OK but who makes things happen in "institutions" like volunteer run clubs and the PTA? Other parents in your community. Typically eager for volunteer leaders. How are you using your platform in these institutions to affirmatively support boys groups? Sure, not everyone can start and run a club, but have you tried...anything at all? There is no disembodied cabal running everything.

So you’re still dancing around the unfairness of it.

It's unfair other parents have supported other organizations when you're unwilling to do the same?

Generally discrimination doesn’t get justified based on the fact that other people support it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I decided to start a boys’ exercise and “empowerment” club at my child’s school that specifically excluded girls, heads would roll. And before you say boys don’t need empowerment and emotional support, check the latest high school dropout rates, college attendance rates, suicide rates, and think again.

All of society already implicitly empowers boys. They already see other boys and men in leadership positions at every level in every industry and around the world. We make such glacial progress against sexism in this society because people like you argue about the wrong things.

Start your boys club and empower them to be respectful members of society who see girls as true equals and I'm all for it.

The empowerment argument is just not true at the elementary school level. later, maybe, but only for a subsection of boys/men. If you actually do want to fight sexism I suggest you accept this very well documented fact and think it over.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/13/upshot/boys-falling-behind-data.html

You cannot debate that in the current world, men occupy far more positions of power and leadership across the country and the globe. Prove me wrong. You cannot. Kids are influenced by simply seeing who is in charge around them and in that way, our society does empower boys more than girls. Do you think both boys and girls don't notice, even subconsciously, that we have only had male presidents?

The click bait article you have linked; Did you actually read it? Did you put any thought into the basis of her assertions?

"Many young men say they feel unmoored and undervalued,". Did they ask how many young women feel unmoored and undervalued? She doesn't say. Without statistics for both, you don't really know if there is a specifically male crisis or just a general problem for young people today. The link she provides is a piece trying to explain why young men were attracted to Trump and feeding this whole "men are being attacked narrative" that the author also wrote.

She also says "School has changed in ways that favor girls, and work has changed in ways that favor women." She provides no link to substantiate how school has changed to favor girls. Second, she says work has changed to "favor women". The link here is to an article about the loss of manufacturing jobs and rise of service professions. The title of the article is, "Why Men Don’t Want the Jobs Done Mostly by Women," another article that *she* wrote. I think the title tells you the real problem here. We all know we have lost manufacturing jobs in the U.S. and moved into more of a service economy. So shouldn't men adjust and stop spurning service jobs as "women's work" and take some of these jobs? What is the real problem here? Are men too superior to do service jobs? That sure sound like an example of the dreaded "toxic masculinity" we aren't allowed to bring up. Here is a problem where men's definitions of masculinity and their disdain for "woman's work" is holding THEMSELVES back. Women aren't hurting them here; they are hurting themselves with old-fashioned "toxic" masculinity.

As for your elementary school argument, a lot of what she refers to in the article is speculation. The first line of her paragraph on education is "School has become more academic earlier, perhaps making it harder for boys, who generally mature later than girls, researchers say." Operative word there? Perhaps.

Then she talks about boys scoring lower in reading on standardized tests that girls, which is true. But that has been true for a long time and has nothing to do with any recent efforts to empower girls outside the classroom. If you dig further into research, boys catch up by adulthood. And since this is a long-standing problem, it doesn't appear that it was holding men back from being very successful as adults. Meanwhile, she makes no mention of how boys often score HIGHER than girls in math. That is completely ignored, because it doesn't suit her narrative.

In many ways examining things like school performance in terms of boys versus girls is a dichotomy that is likely too simplistic. Do you really think all boys are the same in how they learn? All girls? Socioeconomic level is most likely an even more critical factor. Nevertheless, if it is the case that the current classroom is failing SOME boys, they we should look at ways to change the way things are done in the classroom. But you can't tell me it isn't also failing SOME girls. Improvements should be with an eye to making it better for all students. And I hate to say it, but good luck with that as we currently exist under an administration hell-bent on destroying the education system in this country.

I could dissect this thing further, but suffice it to say, that in most cases the things she brings up about boys/men are also happening to girls/women, but maybe the percentage of women is a few percentage points lower. Sound more like societal problems than specifically boy problems.

Start your boys club and empower them to be respectful members of society who see girls as true equals and I'm all for it. Teach them that service jobs are not "women's work". They'll be better off for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Yeah, this poster has some victim mentality for sure, great to see this is what they'll be teaching their sons

Like it or not you cannot force 7 year olds to be intersectional feminists out of the gate. If you actually cared about feminism (as I do) you would take this at face value. But I get it is much more fun to be tribal and superior about it.

What? We're talking about trying to start clubs to give our boys a positive experience. My experience is that most people are not willing to step up to lead stuff, so people with motivation can make things happen most of the time. But you seem pretty sure we are all conspiring to stop you.

Come on just stop. Not everyone has the resources to just “start a club” and anyone who has been even peripherally involved in PTA crap knows that there are many hurdles and possible actual roadblocks. People still get mad if you even dare to say out loud that your boy feels excluded. as evinced on this thread! Plus there is no other area where we would put the burden on the excluded group to fix things. My stance is that the institutions that are supporting all girl organizations need to also be affirmatively supporting all boys groups. If you object to that, ask yourself why.

OK but who makes things happen in "institutions" like volunteer run clubs and the PTA? Other parents in your community. Typically eager for volunteer leaders. How are you using your platform in these institutions to affirmatively support boys groups? Sure, not everyone can start and run a club, but have you tried...anything at all? There is no disembodied cabal running everything.

So you’re still dancing around the unfairness of it.

It's unfair other parents have supported other organizations when you're unwilling to do the same?

Generally discrimination doesn’t get justified based on the fact that other people support it.

Yeah that makes no sense. Again, these organizations exist, you just are choosing not to put effort in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS’s bestie is going to join GOTR soon. They have been friends since pre-K and we asked for them to be placed in the same class every year. He would like to do GOTR with her.

Is it open to boys?

No, Girls on the Run is an organization that’s solely for girls. Just like Boy Scouts is only for boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I decided to start a boys’ exercise and “empowerment” club at my child’s school that specifically excluded girls, heads would roll. And before you say boys don’t need empowerment and emotional support, check the latest high school dropout rates, college attendance rates, suicide rates, and think again.

All of society already implicitly empowers boys. They already see other boys and men in leadership positions at every level in every industry and around the world. We make such glacial progress against sexism in this society because people like you argue about the wrong things.

Start your boys club and empower them to be respectful members of society who see girls as true equals and I'm all for it.

The empowerment argument is just not true at the elementary school level. later, maybe, but only for a subsection of boys/men. If you actually do want to fight sexism I suggest you accept this very well documented fact and think it over.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/13/upshot/boys-falling-behind-data.html

You cannot debate that in the current world, men occupy far more positions of power and leadership across the country and the globe. Prove me wrong. You cannot. Kids are influenced by simply seeing who is in charge around them and in that way, our society does empower boys more than girls. Do you think both boys and girls don't notice, even subconsciously, that we have only had male presidents?

The click bait article you have linked; Did you actually read it? Did you put any thought into the basis of her assertions?

"Many young men say they feel unmoored and undervalued,". Did they ask how many young women feel unmoored and undervalued? She doesn't say. Without statistics for both, you don't really know if there is a specifically male crisis or just a general problem for young people today. The link she provides is a piece trying to explain why young men were attracted to Trump and feeding this whole "men are being attacked narrative" that the author also wrote.

She also says "School has changed in ways that favor girls, and work has changed in ways that favor women." She provides no link to substantiate how school has changed to favor girls. Second, she says work has changed to "favor women". The link here is to an article about the loss of manufacturing jobs and rise of service professions. The title of the article is, "Why Men Don’t Want the Jobs Done Mostly by Women," another article that *she* wrote. I think the title tells you the real problem here. We all know we have lost manufacturing jobs in the U.S. and moved into more of a service economy. So shouldn't men adjust and stop spurning service jobs as "women's work" and take some of these jobs? What is the real problem here? Are men too superior to do service jobs? That sure sound like an example of the dreaded "toxic masculinity" we aren't allowed to bring up. Here is a problem where men's definitions of masculinity and their disdain for "woman's work" is holding THEMSELVES back. Women aren't hurting them here; they are hurting themselves with old-fashioned "toxic" masculinity.

As for your elementary school argument, a lot of what she refers to in the article is speculation. The first line of her paragraph on education is "School has become more academic earlier, perhaps making it harder for boys, who generally mature later than girls, researchers say." Operative word there? Perhaps.

Then she talks about boys scoring lower in reading on standardized tests that girls, which is true. But that has been true for a long time and has nothing to do with any recent efforts to empower girls outside the classroom. If you dig further into research, boys catch up by adulthood. And since this is a long-standing problem, it doesn't appear that it was holding men back from being very successful as adults. Meanwhile, she makes no mention of how boys often score HIGHER than girls in math. That is completely ignored, because it doesn't suit her narrative.

In many ways examining things like school performance in terms of boys versus girls is a dichotomy that is likely too simplistic. Do you really think all boys are the same in how they learn? All girls? Socioeconomic level is most likely an even more critical factor. Nevertheless, if it is the case that the current classroom is failing SOME boys, they we should look at ways to change the way things are done in the classroom. But you can't tell me it isn't also failing SOME girls. Improvements should be with an eye to making it better for all students. And I hate to say it, but good luck with that as we currently exist under an administration hell-bent on destroying the education system in this country.

I could dissect this thing further, but suffice it to say, that in most cases the things she brings up about boys/men are also happening to girls/women, but maybe the percentage of women is a few percentage points lower. Sound more like societal problems than specifically boy problems.

Start your boys club and empower them to be respectful members of society who see girls as true equals and I'm all for it. Teach them that service jobs are not "women's work". They'll be better off for it.

I agree that that men in my generation had an unfair advantage when it came to school, sports and success in their career. And boys in elementary school need to own up to this and take accountability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I decided to start a boys’ exercise and “empowerment” club at my child’s school that specifically excluded girls, heads would roll. And before you say boys don’t need empowerment and emotional support, check the latest high school dropout rates, college attendance rates, suicide rates, and think again.

All of society already implicitly empowers boys. They already see other boys and men in leadership positions at every level in every industry and around the world. We make such glacial progress against sexism in this society because people like you argue about the wrong things.

Start your boys club and empower them to be respectful members of society who see girls as true equals and I'm all for it.

Hey PP, what’s your race? Your spouse’s race? Because, by your logic, there is probably somebody more disadvantaged than you. Therefore, you should give that person a special spot due to their lack of empowerment.

Why don’t you give up your job so a more disadvantaged person can take it? Maybe your property? Tribalism leads to a slippery slope. We are an individualistic society and country. And we don’t punish people for the sins of others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS’s bestie is going to join GOTR soon. They have been friends since pre-K and we asked for them to be placed in the same class every year. He would like to do GOTR with her.

Is it open to boys?

No, Girls on the Run is an organization that’s solely for girls. Just like Boy Scouts is only for boys.

The Boy Scouts is no longer an organization. Scouting America welcomed girls in 2019. Please try to understand that your personal experiences of sexism in 1974 may no longer be relevant today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Yeah, this poster has some victim mentality for sure, great to see this is what they'll be teaching their sons

Like it or not you cannot force 7 year olds to be intersectional feminists out of the gate. If you actually cared about feminism (as I do) you would take this at face value. But I get it is much more fun to be tribal and superior about it.

What? We're talking about trying to start clubs to give our boys a positive experience. My experience is that most people are not willing to step up to lead stuff, so people with motivation can make things happen most of the time. But you seem pretty sure we are all conspiring to stop you.

Come on just stop. Not everyone has the resources to just “start a club” and anyone who has been even peripherally involved in PTA crap knows that there are many hurdles and possible actual roadblocks. People still get mad if you even dare to say out loud that your boy feels excluded. as evinced on this thread! Plus there is no other area where we would put the burden on the excluded group to fix things. My stance is that the institutions that are supporting all girl organizations need to also be affirmatively supporting all boys groups. If you object to that, ask yourself why.

But surely when people are screaming that it can’t be done and heads would roll at the mere suggestion it’s reasonable that people might suggest they find out if that’s actually the case?

And frankly, it is super common to have sports orgs separate kids by gender. My son plays on a boys basketball team. Girls cannot join it. Guess who’s the coach? My husband- because otherwise there would not have been a coach. It’s not uncommon for parents to make these things happen. Yes there are girls teams available but they also need to find their own coaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS’s bestie is going to join GOTR soon. They have been friends since pre-K and we asked for them to be placed in the same class every year. He would like to do GOTR with her.

Is it open to boys?

No, Girls on the Run is an organization that’s solely for girls. Just like Boy Scouts is only for boys.

I see what you did there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I decided to start a boys’ exercise and “empowerment” club at my child’s school that specifically excluded girls, heads would roll. And before you say boys don’t need empowerment and emotional support, check the latest high school dropout rates, college attendance rates, suicide rates, and think again.

All of society already implicitly empowers boys. They already see other boys and men in leadership positions at every level in every industry and around the world. We make such glacial progress against sexism in this society because people like you argue about the wrong things.

Start your boys club and empower them to be respectful members of society who see girls as true equals and I'm all for it.

The empowerment argument is just not true at the elementary school level. later, maybe, but only for a subsection of boys/men. If you actually do want to fight sexism I suggest you accept this very well documented fact and think it over.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/13/upshot/boys-falling-behind-data.html

You cannot debate that in the current world, men occupy far more positions of power and leadership across the country and the globe. Prove me wrong. You cannot. Kids are influenced by simply seeing who is in charge around them and in that way, our society does empower boys more than girls. Do you think both boys and girls don't notice, even subconsciously, that we have only had male presidents?

The click bait article you have linked; Did you actually read it? Did you put any thought into the basis of her assertions?

"Many young men say they feel unmoored and undervalued,". Did they ask how many young women feel unmoored and undervalued? She doesn't say. Without statistics for both, you don't really know if there is a specifically male crisis or just a general problem for young people today. The link she provides is a piece trying to explain why young men were attracted to Trump and feeding this whole "men are being attacked narrative" that the author also wrote.

She also says "School has changed in ways that favor girls, and work has changed in ways that favor women." She provides no link to substantiate how school has changed to favor girls. Second, she says work has changed to "favor women". The link here is to an article about the loss of manufacturing jobs and rise of service professions. The title of the article is, "Why Men Don’t Want the Jobs Done Mostly by Women," another article that *she* wrote. I think the title tells you the real problem here. We all know we have lost manufacturing jobs in the U.S. and moved into more of a service economy. So shouldn't men adjust and stop spurning service jobs as "women's work" and take some of these jobs? What is the real problem here? Are men too superior to do service jobs? That sure sound like an example of the dreaded "toxic masculinity" we aren't allowed to bring up. Here is a problem where men's definitions of masculinity and their disdain for "woman's work" is holding THEMSELVES back. Women aren't hurting them here; they are hurting themselves with old-fashioned "toxic" masculinity.

As for your elementary school argument, a lot of what she refers to in the article is speculation. The first line of her paragraph on education is "School has become more academic earlier, perhaps making it harder for boys, who generally mature later than girls, researchers say." Operative word there? Perhaps.

Then she talks about boys scoring lower in reading on standardized tests that girls, which is true. But that has been true for a long time and has nothing to do with any recent efforts to empower girls outside the classroom. If you dig further into research, boys catch up by adulthood. And since this is a long-standing problem, it doesn't appear that it was holding men back from being very successful as adults. Meanwhile, she makes no mention of how boys often score HIGHER than girls in math. That is completely ignored, because it doesn't suit her narrative.

In many ways examining things like school performance in terms of boys versus girls is a dichotomy that is likely too simplistic. Do you really think all boys are the same in how they learn? All girls? Socioeconomic level is most likely an even more critical factor. Nevertheless, if it is the case that the current classroom is failing SOME boys, they we should look at ways to change the way things are done in the classroom. But you can't tell me it isn't also failing SOME girls. Improvements should be with an eye to making it better for all students. And I hate to say it, but good luck with that as we currently exist under an administration hell-bent on destroying the education system in this country.

I could dissect this thing further, but suffice it to say, that in most cases the things she brings up about boys/men are also happening to girls/women, but maybe the percentage of women is a few percentage points lower. Sound more like societal problems than specifically boy problems.

Start your boys club and empower them to be respectful members of society who see girls as true equals and I'm all for it. Teach them that service jobs are not "women's work". They'll be better off for it.

This true. Simultaneously, it's also true that the vast majority of men do not occupy positions of power.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.

Start a club, organization for the boys in your school. Theee was no magic fairy that addressed the need for the girls to get leadership and running educataion....it was likely a mom or dad that started it.

That was then and this is now. I think we all know that the cultural infrastructure (grants, leadership organizations, institutional buy-in) is heavily tilted to girls’ programs. It’s an open question whether all schools would even allow or support a boys-only club.

So, you haven't tried but you've already given up and our willing to tell those of us who have actually done the work of starting clubs that we wouldn't be supportive?

Yeah, this poster has some victim mentality for sure, great to see this is what they'll be teaching their sons

Like it or not you cannot force 7 year olds to be intersectional feminists out of the gate. If you actually cared about feminism (as I do) you would take this at face value. But I get it is much more fun to be tribal and superior about it.

What? We're talking about trying to start clubs to give our boys a positive experience. My experience is that most people are not willing to step up to lead stuff, so people with motivation can make things happen most of the time. But you seem pretty sure we are all conspiring to stop you.

Come on just stop. Not everyone has the resources to just “start a club” and anyone who has been even peripherally involved in PTA crap knows that there are many hurdles and possible actual roadblocks. People still get mad if you even dare to say out loud that your boy feels excluded. as evinced on this thread! Plus there is no other area where we would put the burden on the excluded group to fix things. My stance is that the institutions that are supporting all girl organizations need to also be affirmatively supporting all boys groups. If you object to that, ask yourself why.

OK but who makes things happen in "institutions" like volunteer run clubs and the PTA? Other parents in your community. Typically eager for volunteer leaders. How are you using your platform in these institutions to affirmatively support boys groups? Sure, not everyone can start and run a club, but have you tried...anything at all? There is no disembodied cabal running everything.

So you’re still dancing around the unfairness of it.

What? What exactly do you want me to do? I'm an involved parent at my kids' school. It is probably not the same school your kids go to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:fyi GOTR isn't just about running. Half the program is non-running related.

But as a long-time former coach, we had another coach who would bring her son to practices. Frankly it was annoying, because he was always trying to compete (and competition isn't the point). It's not fun for girls when the boy tries to "win" and be first, because he may have a physical advantage.

When my DD did GOTR, a boy ran in the final 5K and won the race. I feel like it was not fair to the girls who had trained for months.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If I decided to start a boys’ exercise and “empowerment” club at my child’s school that specifically excluded girls, heads would roll. And before you say boys don’t need empowerment and emotional support, check the latest high school dropout rates, college attendance rates, suicide rates, and think again.

All of society already implicitly empowers boys. They already see other boys and men in leadership positions at every level in every industry and around the world. We make such glacial progress against sexism in this society because people like you argue about the wrong things.

Start your boys club and empower them to be respectful members of society who see girls as true equals and I'm all for it.

Hey PP, what’s your race? Your spouse’s race? Because, by your logic, there is probably somebody more disadvantaged than you. Therefore, you should give that person a special spot due to their lack of empowerment.

Why don’t you give up your job so a more disadvantaged person can take it? Maybe your property? Tribalism leads to a slippery slope. We are an individualistic society and country. And we don’t punish people for the sins of others.

WTF. Tribalism? People need to give up their jobs because they point out thee very real fact that males still hold more power in this world than femaies? Defending a girls-only running club to help out elementary school girls brought you to this post? You make absolutely no sense.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If I decided to start a boys’ exercise and “empowerment” club at my child’s school that specifically excluded girls, heads would roll. And before you say boys don’t need empowerment and emotional support, check the latest high school dropout rates, college attendance rates, suicide rates, and think again.

All of society already implicitly empowers boys. They already see other boys and men in leadership positions at every level in every industry and around the world. We make such glacial progress against sexism in this society because people like you argue about the wrong things.

Start your boys club and empower them to be respectful members of society who see girls as true equals and I'm all for it.

The empowerment argument is just not true at the elementary school level. later, maybe, but only for a subsection of boys/men. If you actually do want to fight sexism I suggest you accept this very well documented fact and think it over.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/13/upshot/boys-falling-behind-data.html

You cannot debate that in the current world, men occupy far more positions of power and leadership across the country and the globe. Prove me wrong. You cannot. Kids are influenced by simply seeing who is in charge around them and in that way, our society does empower boys more than girls. Do you think both boys and girls don't notice, even subconsciously, that we have only had male presidents?

The click bait article you have linked; Did you actually read it? Did you put any thought into the basis of her assertions?

"Many young men say they feel unmoored and undervalued,". Did they ask how many young women feel unmoored and undervalued? She doesn't say. Without statistics for both, you don't really know if there is a specifically male crisis or just a general problem for young people today. The link she provides is a piece trying to explain why young men were attracted to Trump and feeding this whole "men are being attacked narrative" that the author also wrote.

She also says "School has changed in ways that favor girls, and work has changed in ways that favor women." She provides no link to substantiate how school has changed to favor girls. Second, she says work has changed to "favor women". The link here is to an article about the loss of manufacturing jobs and rise of service professions. The title of the article is, "Why Men Don’t Want the Jobs Done Mostly by Women," another article that *she* wrote. I think the title tells you the real problem here. We all know we have lost manufacturing jobs in the U.S. and moved into more of a service economy. So shouldn't men adjust and stop spurning service jobs as "women's work" and take some of these jobs? What is the real problem here? Are men too superior to do service jobs? That sure sound like an example of the dreaded "toxic masculinity" we aren't allowed to bring up. Here is a problem where men's definitions of masculinity and their disdain for "woman's work" is holding THEMSELVES back. Women aren't hurting them here; they are hurting themselves with old-fashioned "toxic" masculinity.

As for your elementary school argument, a lot of what she refers to in the article is speculation. The first line of her paragraph on education is "School has become more academic earlier, perhaps making it harder for boys, who generally mature later than girls, researchers say." Operative word there? Perhaps.

Then she talks about boys scoring lower in reading on standardized tests that girls, which is true. But that has been true for a long time and has nothing to do with any recent efforts to empower girls outside the classroom. If you dig further into research, boys catch up by adulthood. And since this is a long-standing problem, it doesn't appear that it was holding men back from being very successful as adults. Meanwhile, she makes no mention of how boys often score HIGHER than girls in math. That is completely ignored, because it doesn't suit her narrative.

In many ways examining things like school performance in terms of boys versus girls is a dichotomy that is likely too simplistic. Do you really think all boys are the same in how they learn? All girls? Socioeconomic level is most likely an even more critical factor. Nevertheless, if it is the case that the current classroom is failing SOME boys, they we should look at ways to change the way things are done in the classroom. But you can't tell me it isn't also failing SOME girls. Improvements should be with an eye to making it better for all students. And I hate to say it, but good luck with that as we currently exist under an administration hell-bent on destroying the education system in this country.

I could dissect this thing further, but suffice it to say, that in most cases the things she brings up about boys/men are also happening to girls/women, but maybe the percentage of women is a few percentage points lower. Sound more like societal problems than specifically boy problems.

Start your boys club and empower them to be respectful members of society who see girls as true equals and I'm all for it. Teach them that service jobs are not "women's work". They'll be better off for it.

I agree that that men in my generation had an unfair advantage when it came to school, sports and success in their career. And boys in elementary school need to own up to this and take accountability.

That's your takeaway? You are not very bright.