11 year old vegan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone, I wanted to come back to a few things.

One is that I read here people saying that fat and protein are issues, but when I put the data for what she eats into the cronometer app, it comes back at high levels for those two nutrients.

The place where I had more the most trouble getting enough in were iron, calcium, and vitamin D (although my kids are already on vitamin D supplements on the advice of the Dr.). I could get those two in, but I had to move things around, and I feel like when I tried to follow the recommendation to serve iron rich foods at meals with no dairy substitutes, I had more of an issue.

Any suggestions on those two nutrients?

Also, someone mentioned concerns with soy. Can you elaborate?

Soy milk and processed, non fermented soy products like soy milk are full of estrogen.

I thought this was common knowledge.

A vegan, or anyone with children, dhould know this.

Fermented soy like miso and soy sauce are not a problem. Processed soy is.

Someone should alert Asia!!!

Asia uses a ton of pork, eggs, fish, seafood and chicken broth in just about every meal.

They also eat eggs daily (asian breakfast, anyone?) And they do not drink soy milk or fake overprocessed vegan "meat" products.. Their yogurt is dairy based. The asian diet is sooooo far from vegan, even if they eat a lot more veggies than the typical American.

There is no single “Asian” diet. There certain are diets in Asian that are vegan. Look at Jain diets and Buddhist Temple food.

But the post about Asian food was in response to the statement that soy is bad for you. Several Asian diets, notably Japanese are high is soy, and also associated with long lives, which is what the PP was pointing out.

You didn't read that post.

It said processed soy like soy "milk" is bad for you but fermented soy like miso and tofu are fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not regular hormone free milk and cheeses?

Because she is concerned about animal cruelty and not about hormones.

I’m going to call out OP for pushing this on her 11 YO daughter. Shane on you OP.

Where do you see that I am pushing it. I'm explaining what she told me.

I'm sorry, but are you familiar with the word "parent," and all that it implies?

Yes, I didn't realize you didn't know what it meant.

Parent means to teach your children so they can grow up to be independent healthy adults who know their values and act in accordance with them.

So, in this case, some of the things that I did which would be parenting:

I listened to my daughter when she decided that eating eggs and dairy products wasn't in keeping with her own values.

I encouraged her to learn more about the dairy and egg industries to find a source she was comfortable with, but unfortunately she could not do so.

I helped her research vegan nutrition, to learn about her body's needs, and to make a plan to meet them.

I taught her to plan and cook healthy vegan meals.

I continued to provide the ingredients for healthy vegan meals.

All of those things are examples of parenting.

Another word that you don't seem to know what it means is "push". That means to encourage or force someone to do something. It doesn't mean to allow them them to do something they've decided to do on their own.

For example, I could say. "I didn't push my child to become vegan, but I did push them to learn to cook vegan meals, to take B12 supplements, and to incorporate more vitamin C into their meals to increase the absorption of non-heme iron from plant sources."

Please let me know if you would like any further vocabulary lessons. I am sorry I didn't realize you needed them earlier.

What are you going to do when your 11 year old decides that doing her homework is not in keeping with her own values?

You really think being vegan is somehow similar to refusing to do homework? That's just bonkers.

It is worse because it harms the body, and is usually cult like and driven by social media falsehoods

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone, I wanted to come back to a few things.

One is that I read here people saying that fat and protein are issues, but when I put the data for what she eats into the cronometer app, it comes back at high levels for those two nutrients.

The place where I had more the most trouble getting enough in were iron, calcium, and vitamin D (although my kids are already on vitamin D supplements on the advice of the Dr.). I could get those two in, but I had to move things around, and I feel like when I tried to follow the recommendation to serve iron rich foods at meals with no dairy substitutes, I had more of an issue.

Any suggestions on those two nutrients?

Also, someone mentioned concerns with soy. Can you elaborate?

Soy milk and processed, non fermented soy products like soy milk are full of estrogen.

I thought this was common knowledge.

A vegan, or anyone with children, dhould know this.

Fermented soy like miso and soy sauce are not a problem. Processed soy is.

OP here,

I thought that had been debunked a long time ago, but I reviewed the literature again. It has been debunked. Looking at sources online that I consider reputable, what I see is that phytoestrogens are different from the kind of estrogen in humans, and don't pose a risk.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28838083/ (Soy does not have short term negative impact on adolescents, and long term can be linked to reduction in breast cancer rates)

https://nutrition.org/eating-more-soy-foods-could-improve-thinking-and-attention-in-kids/ (Eating more soy could improve thinking and attention in kids)

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/childrens-health/in-depth/nutrition-for-kids/art-20049335 (Includes soy foods in it's recommendation for children's diets)

What I see says that foods that contain the whole soybean (edamame, tofu, soymilk) are safe healthy choices that may have some protective factors, particularly against breast cancer later. Fermented soy (miso, tempeh) has particular benefits.

Soy sauce, soy oil, and soy protein isolate have issues, but those issues seem to be consistent with other similar foods, and come from the salt, fat and ultraprocessing.

Infant soy formula is a different issue, and not relevant to my 11 year old.

Given that I continue to feel safe with a few servings a day of edamame, tofu, tempeh, or soy curls, and using miso regularly.

We don't do protein powders, or protein bars, or shakes.

We've also chosen other plant milks than soy just to vary the protein in her diet.

We do like soy sauce, but that's not something we added to our diets due to veganism.

You are absolutely right. It’s actually very good for women, young and old, to consume soy daily.

Not processed soy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not regular hormone free milk and cheeses?

Because she is concerned about animal cruelty and not about hormones.

I’m going to call out OP for pushing this on her 11 YO daughter. Shane on you OP.

Where do you see that I am pushing it. I'm explaining what she told me.

I'm sorry, but are you familiar with the word "parent," and all that it implies?

Yes, I didn't realize you didn't know what it meant.

Parent means to teach your children so they can grow up to be independent healthy adults who know their values and act in accordance with them.

So, in this case, some of the things that I did which would be parenting:

I listened to my daughter when she decided that eating eggs and dairy products wasn't in keeping with her own values.

I encouraged her to learn more about the dairy and egg industries to find a source she was comfortable with, but unfortunately she could not do so.

I helped her research vegan nutrition, to learn about her body's needs, and to make a plan to meet them.

I taught her to plan and cook healthy vegan meals.

I continued to provide the ingredients for healthy vegan meals.

All of those things are examples of parenting.

Another word that you don't seem to know what it means is "push". That means to encourage or force someone to do something. It doesn't mean to allow them them to do something they've decided to do on their own.

For example, I could say. "I didn't push my child to become vegan, but I did push them to learn to cook vegan meals, to take B12 supplements, and to incorporate more vitamin C into their meals to increase the absorption of non-heme iron from plant sources."

Please let me know if you would like any further vocabulary lessons. I am sorry I didn't realize you needed them earlier.

What are you going to do when your 11 year old decides that doing her homework is not in keeping with her own values?

You really think being vegan is somehow similar to refusing to do homework? That's just bonkers.

It is worse because it harms the body, and is usually cult like and driven by social media falsehoods

Sounds like you have a crazy axe to grind. My vegan cousin literally just won a 50 mile ultamarathon last month. Pretty sure he's in better physical shape than pretty much anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone, I wanted to come back to a few things.

One is that I read here people saying that fat and protein are issues, but when I put the data for what she eats into the cronometer app, it comes back at high levels for those two nutrients.

The place where I had more the most trouble getting enough in were iron, calcium, and vitamin D (although my kids are already on vitamin D supplements on the advice of the Dr.). I could get those two in, but I had to move things around, and I feel like when I tried to follow the recommendation to serve iron rich foods at meals with no dairy substitutes, I had more of an issue.

Any suggestions on those two nutrients?

Also, someone mentioned concerns with soy. Can you elaborate?

Soy milk and processed, non fermented soy products like soy milk are full of estrogen.

I thought this was common knowledge.

A vegan, or anyone with children, dhould know this.

Fermented soy like miso and soy sauce are not a problem. Processed soy is.

Someone should alert Asia!!!

Asia uses a ton of pork, eggs, fish, seafood and chicken broth in just about every meal.

They also eat eggs daily (asian breakfast, anyone?) And they do not drink soy milk or fake overprocessed vegan "meat" products.. Their yogurt is dairy based. The asian diet is sooooo far from vegan, even if they eat a lot more veggies than the typical American.

There is no single “Asian” diet. There certain are diets in Asian that are vegan. Look at Jain diets and Buddhist Temple food.

But the post about Asian food was in response to the statement that soy is bad for you. Several Asian diets, notably Japanese are high is soy, and also associated with long lives, which is what the PP was pointing out.

You didn't read that post.

It said processed soy like soy "milk" is bad for you but fermented soy like miso and tofu are fine.

Tofu isn’t fermented, and soy milk is considered to be in the same “whole soy” category as tofu. The whole soy category is what is associated with lower risks of cancer. Soy sauce is an example of processed soy.

And soy does contain “estrogen”. It contains phytoestrogens, which have some of the same chemical properties but not the same functional properties as estrogen.

The only thing that was true in the post that I did read is that miso is ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not regular hormone free milk and cheeses?

Because she is concerned about animal cruelty and not about hormones.

I’m going to call out OP for pushing this on her 11 YO daughter. Shane on you OP.

Where do you see that I am pushing it. I'm explaining what she told me.

I'm sorry, but are you familiar with the word "parent," and all that it implies?

Yes, I didn't realize you didn't know what it meant.

Parent means to teach your children so they can grow up to be independent healthy adults who know their values and act in accordance with them.

So, in this case, some of the things that I did which would be parenting:

I listened to my daughter when she decided that eating eggs and dairy products wasn't in keeping with her own values.

I encouraged her to learn more about the dairy and egg industries to find a source she was comfortable with, but unfortunately she could not do so.

I helped her research vegan nutrition, to learn about her body's needs, and to make a plan to meet them.

I taught her to plan and cook healthy vegan meals.

I continued to provide the ingredients for healthy vegan meals.

All of those things are examples of parenting.

Another word that you don't seem to know what it means is "push". That means to encourage or force someone to do something. It doesn't mean to allow them them to do something they've decided to do on their own.

For example, I could say. "I didn't push my child to become vegan, but I did push them to learn to cook vegan meals, to take B12 supplements, and to incorporate more vitamin C into their meals to increase the absorption of non-heme iron from plant sources."

Please let me know if you would like any further vocabulary lessons. I am sorry I didn't realize you needed them earlier.

What are you going to do when your 11 year old decides that doing her homework is not in keeping with her own values?

You really think being vegan is somehow similar to refusing to do homework? That's just bonkers.

It is worse because it harms the body, and is usually cult like and driven by social media falsehoods

Sounds like you have a crazy axe to grind. My vegan cousin literally just won a 50 mile ultamarathon last month. Pretty sure he's in better physical shape than pretty much anyone.

"He" is not an 11 YO prepubescent girl.

[Anonymous]

I wonder why there are nut jobs who insist eating a plant based diet is unhealthy…. Do you own dairy farms? Worship RFK jr?
Anyway it’s bizarre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why there are nut jobs who insist eating a plant based diet is unhealthy…. Do you own dairy farms? Worship RFK jr?
Anyway it’s bizarre.

Because anyone who knows anything about nutrition, especially those of us who work professionally with patients on weight management, eating disorders and other diet associated conditions, knows how difficult it is to consistently (that’s every single day) get a fully nutritious diet by eschewing basically everything except plants. And for a child of this age, it is practically impossible.

I’ve seen it too many times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why there are nut jobs who insist eating a plant based diet is unhealthy…. Do you own dairy farms? Worship RFK jr?
Anyway it’s bizarre.

Because anyone who knows anything about nutrition, especially those of us who work professionally with patients on weight management, eating disorders and other diet associated conditions, knows how difficult it is to consistently (that’s every single day) get a fully nutritious diet by eschewing basically everything except plants. And for a child of this age, it is practically impossible.

I’ve seen it too many times.

Funny, I have my degree in nutrition from an ivy and I’ve seen many children thrive on a plant based diet. We can agree to disagree, but I applaud OP for letting her daughter start on a healthy path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d do a lot of grain bowls that the family could customize to add extra protein of their choice. We do a great one with peanut sauce and tempeh or salmon that is always a crowd pleaser.

Moosewood cookbook lentil walnut burgers are really good and freeze well so you can reheat individual servings. You could do those with other burger or grilled meat sandwiches for the rest of the family.

Do you have a recipe for the grain bowl?

DP. Very easy.
--Base is quinoa, wild rice, brown rice, etc.
--Add cooked vegetable. (Easy to do this 1-2/week and refrigerate.) You can also add fresh vegetables/fruits like cucumbers in a bit of dressing, shaved carrots, tomatoes, olives.
--Add in greens and microgreens.
--Add in beans, nuts, and seeds.
--Add in any dressings, hummus, pesto.
--Add in an avocado for a healthy fat.
--If eating meat, add in shredded chicken, egg, or cheese.

Think CAVA bowl.

I was hoping for the specific recipe with the peanut sauce and tempeh.

Did you have to respond like this? You didn't specify that. Geez -- I get more push back when I try to be helpful here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why there are nut jobs who insist eating a plant based diet is unhealthy…. Do you own dairy farms? Worship RFK jr?
Anyway it’s bizarre.

Because anyone who knows anything about nutrition, especially those of us who work professionally with patients on weight management, eating disorders and other diet associated conditions, knows how difficult it is to consistently (that’s every single day) get a fully nutritious diet by eschewing basically everything except plants. And for a child of this age, it is practically impossible.

I’ve seen it too many times.

This thread and these arguments are really off base. It's not like because a child eats meat, she's automatically healthy. And, I'd venture that most pre-teens and teen are missing fiber and nutrients. Some people really have an axe to grind. I became a vegetarian at 11 because I didn't like meat, was my mother supposed to force me to eat it? In any case, we were neglected and didn't have access to real food, but somehow my siblings and I overcame the lack of childhood nutrition to become very healthy eaters as adults (and I can't eat anything meat aside from a bit of chicken or fish that is salmon or whiter).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why there are nut jobs who insist eating a plant based diet is unhealthy…. Do you own dairy farms? Worship RFK jr?
Anyway it’s bizarre.

Because anyone who knows anything about nutrition, especially those of us who work professionally with patients on weight management, eating disorders and other diet associated conditions, knows how difficult it is to consistently (that’s every single day) get a fully nutritious diet by eschewing basically everything except plants. And for a child of this age, it is practically impossible.

I’ve seen it too many times.

This thread and these arguments are really off base. It's not like because a child eats meat, she's automatically healthy. And, I'd venture that most pre-teens and teen are missing fiber and nutrients. Some people really have an axe to grind. I became a vegetarian at 11 because I didn't like meat, was my mother supposed to force me to eat it? In any case, we were neglected and didn't have access to real food, but somehow my siblings and I overcame the lack of childhood nutrition to become very healthy eaters as adults (and I can't eat anything meat aside from a bit of chicken or fish that is salmon or whiter).

Vegetarian is very different than vegan.

I doubt anyone would argue that a vegetarian diet is unhealthy.

Vegan diet is a whole different ballgame than vegetarian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone, I wanted to come back to a few things.

One is that I read here people saying that fat and protein are issues, but when I put the data for what she eats into the cronometer app, it comes back at high levels for those two nutrients.

The place where I had more the most trouble getting enough in were iron, calcium, and vitamin D (although my kids are already on vitamin D supplements on the advice of the Dr.). I could get those two in, but I had to move things around, and I feel like when I tried to follow the recommendation to serve iron rich foods at meals with no dairy substitutes, I had more of an issue.

Any suggestions on those two nutrients?

Also, someone mentioned concerns with soy. Can you elaborate?

Soy milk and processed, non fermented soy products like soy milk are full of estrogen.

I thought this was common knowledge.

A vegan, or anyone with children, dhould know this.

Fermented soy like miso and soy sauce are not a problem. Processed soy is.

Someone should alert Asia!!!

Asian people are far from vegan, they put fish sauce and chicken broth in pretty much everything they eat.

OP, I became a vegetarian when I was the same age as your child, also because of animal cruelty. I think eating a dead animal is gross. My parents told me it was fad (it wasn't, it's been 30 years), and they would not help me adapt or learn other things to eat, so I commend you for supporting your child. As a result, I skipped breakfast, ate a huge meal after school and gained a ton of weight. There is definitely a right and a wrong way to do it. I will say it's a tough life, meals have to be revolved around me, my extended family has to choose restaurants that can accommodate me, sometimes we have to say no. It sucks to see pictures of animals bred for food, or watch my family eat meat, but I can't mentally get past it. There are subreddit groups for vegan/vegetarian recipes that you should join. Kudos and hugs to your family.

It was a reference to soy consumption, obviously.

(Asians might not be vegan, but they eat a lot of soy. Duh.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone, I wanted to come back to a few things.

One is that I read here people saying that fat and protein are issues, but when I put the data for what she eats into the cronometer app, it comes back at high levels for those two nutrients.

The place where I had more the most trouble getting enough in were iron, calcium, and vitamin D (although my kids are already on vitamin D supplements on the advice of the Dr.). I could get those two in, but I had to move things around, and I feel like when I tried to follow the recommendation to serve iron rich foods at meals with no dairy substitutes, I had more of an issue.

Any suggestions on those two nutrients?

Also, someone mentioned concerns with soy. Can you elaborate?

Soy milk and processed, non fermented soy products like soy milk are full of estrogen.

I thought this was common knowledge.

A vegan, or anyone with children, dhould know this.

Fermented soy like miso and soy sauce are not a problem. Processed soy is.

Someone should alert Asia!!!

Asia uses a ton of pork, eggs, fish, seafood and chicken broth in just about every meal.

They also eat eggs daily (asian breakfast, anyone?) And they do not drink soy milk or fake overprocessed vegan "meat" products.. Their yogurt is dairy based. The asian diet is sooooo far from vegan, even if they eat a lot more veggies than the typical American.

Are there seriously TWO of you dolts on this thread?

No one said or implied that Asians are vegan. Use your brain before you post, please. FFS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not regular hormone free milk and cheeses?

Because she is concerned about animal cruelty and not about hormones.

I’m going to call out OP for pushing this on her 11 YO daughter. Shane on you OP.

Where do you see that I am pushing it. I'm explaining what she told me.

I'm sorry, but are you familiar with the word "parent," and all that it implies?

Yes, I didn't realize you didn't know what it meant.

Parent means to teach your children so they can grow up to be independent healthy adults who know their values and act in accordance with them.

So, in this case, some of the things that I did which would be parenting:

I listened to my daughter when she decided that eating eggs and dairy products wasn't in keeping with her own values.

I encouraged her to learn more about the dairy and egg industries to find a source she was comfortable with, but unfortunately she could not do so.

I helped her research vegan nutrition, to learn about her body's needs, and to make a plan to meet them.

I taught her to plan and cook healthy vegan meals.

I continued to provide the ingredients for healthy vegan meals.

All of those things are examples of parenting.

Another word that you don't seem to know what it means is "push". That means to encourage or force someone to do something. It doesn't mean to allow them them to do something they've decided to do on their own.

For example, I could say. "I didn't push my child to become vegan, but I did push them to learn to cook vegan meals, to take B12 supplements, and to incorporate more vitamin C into their meals to increase the absorption of non-heme iron from plant sources."

Please let me know if you would like any further vocabulary lessons. I am sorry I didn't realize you needed them earlier.

What are you going to do when your 11 year old decides that doing her homework is not in keeping with her own values?

You really think being vegan is somehow similar to refusing to do homework? That's just bonkers.

It is worse because it harms the body, and is usually cult like and driven by social media falsehoods

Sounds like you have a crazy axe to grind. My vegan cousin literally just won a 50 mile ultamarathon last month. Pretty sure he's in better physical shape than pretty much anyone.

"He" is not an 11 YO prepubescent girl.

Yeah because 11 year old girls need more calories, iron, and protein than a grown male ultramarathoner. Sure, Jan.