What’s happening with the old White Flint mall development?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are having second thoughts on development since there's no more money in the county. They all left.

Well, affordable housing seems needed, right?

Yes, and this is the perfect place for it! Or, type of place, more generally.

You could have housing, everything from affordable to market rate luxury, a grocery store and other commercial, and other amenities that would be useful to county residents that don’t live on site, like an indoor turf field, community center, whatever.

Instead the county wastes time and money having the planning department work on some ridiculous amorphous plan to build quadriplexes in SFH neighborhoods. We could be a serious county, but it seems that the local government refuses to make that a priority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s ridiculous that this lot has been abandoned for years. The County should expropriate it at this point.

It's been the "other girl" on quite a few things, Amazon/FBI HQ/Wizards and Caps/DC United etc, but is still a unique parcel (size, metro, roads, and close in) and therefore it will wait for something else. One of these days it will make it to the altar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are having second thoughts on development since there's no more money in the county. They all left.

Well, affordable housing seems needed, right?

Yes, and this is the perfect place for it! Or, type of place, more generally.

You could have housing, everything from affordable to market rate luxury, a grocery store and other commercial, and other amenities that would be useful to county residents that don’t live on site, like an indoor turf field, community center, whatever.

Instead the county wastes time and money having the planning department work on some ridiculous amorphous plan to build quadriplexes in SFH neighborhoods. We could be a serious county, but it seems that the local government refuses to make that a priority.

+1

White Flint and the old Sears location at White Oak. Develop those sites and a lot of the county’s housing needs could be solved. Right now they are just huge eyesores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are having second thoughts on development since there's no more money in the county. They all left.

Well, affordable housing seems needed, right?

Yes, and this is the perfect place for it! Or, type of place, more generally.

You could have housing, everything from affordable to market rate luxury, a grocery store and other commercial, and other amenities that would be useful to county residents that don’t live on site, like an indoor turf field, community center, whatever.

Instead the county wastes time and money having the planning department work on some ridiculous amorphous plan to build quadriplexes in SFH neighborhoods. We could be a serious county, but it seems that the local government refuses to make that a priority.

+1

White Flint and the old Sears location at White Oak. Develop those sites and a lot of the county’s housing needs could be solved. Right now they are just huge eyesores.

Tell the property owners.

Also, no, this would not solve "a lot" of the county's housing needs. It would be more housing (depending on what got built), which is good, but the other housing proposals would also still be necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are having second thoughts on development since there's no more money in the county. They all left.

Well, affordable housing seems needed, right?

Yes, and this is the perfect place for it! Or, type of place, more generally.

You could have housing, everything from affordable to market rate luxury, a grocery store and other commercial, and other amenities that would be useful to county residents that don’t live on site, like an indoor turf field, community center, whatever.

Instead the county wastes time and money having the planning department work on some ridiculous amorphous plan to build quadriplexes in SFH neighborhoods. We could be a serious county, but it seems that the local government refuses to make that a priority.

+1

White Flint and the old Sears location at White Oak. Develop those sites and a lot of the county’s housing needs could be solved. Right now they are just huge eyesores.

Tell the property owners.

Also, no, this would not solve "a lot" of the county's housing needs. It would be more housing (depending on what got built), which is good, but the other housing proposals would also still be necessary.

Luckily, there are other plans and there is other housing in pipeline. There are also the corridor plans, though the outcomes of those are also unpredictable.

It would be convenient of the planning department would calculate how housing we need versus how much is planned to be built so that there we knew where we stood. Think of all the time they wasted on this ridiculous immeasurable attainable housing plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are having second thoughts on development since there's no more money in the county. They all left.

Well, affordable housing seems needed, right?

Yes, and this is the perfect place for it! Or, type of place, more generally.

You could have housing, everything from affordable to market rate luxury, a grocery store and other commercial, and other amenities that would be useful to county residents that don’t live on site, like an indoor turf field, community center, whatever.

Instead the county wastes time and money having the planning department work on some ridiculous amorphous plan to build quadriplexes in SFH neighborhoods. We could be a serious county, but it seems that the local government refuses to make that a priority.

+1

White Flint and the old Sears location at White Oak. Develop those sites and a lot of the county’s housing needs could be solved. Right now they are just huge eyesores.

Tell the property owners.

Also, no, this would not solve "a lot" of the county's housing needs. It would be more housing (depending on what got built), which is good, but the other housing proposals would also still be necessary.

Luckily, there are other plans and there is other housing in pipeline. There are also the corridor plans, though the outcomes of those are also unpredictable.

It would be convenient of the planning department would calculate how housing we need versus how much is planned to be built so that there we knew where we stood. Think of all the time they wasted on this ridiculous immeasurable attainable housing plan.

Similarly, maybe the agriculture department could calculate how many eggs we need versus how many eggs chicken farmers plan to produce? What you seem to be calling for is a planned economy, for housing.

To the extent that housing developers are getting approvals but then not building (aka "housing in pipeline"), that's a problem that can be solved. For example by adding a requirement that the housing developer needs to break ground within 3 years of the approval, or the approval lapses. I would support this requirement. I also support the rezoning proposal to allow multi-unit housing in areas where currently only single-unit detached housing is allowed.

[Anonymous]

Which one of the candidates for County Exec is going to move along whatever the heck is supposed to be happening at this site? Nothing until election 2028? The country is going to take decades to recover from what has taken place in the last 1.5 years. Will the health campus to make a biomedical triangle pan out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which one of the candidates for County Exec is going to move along whatever the heck is supposed to be happening at this site? Nothing until election 2028? The country is going to take decades to recover from what has taken place in the last 1.5 years. Will the health campus to make a biomedical triangle pan out?

Not Friedson. He is taking lots of money from the Lerners, who are content to sit on this land.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need affordable housing there

We need business there. But nobody wants to do business in MoCo

This is ridiculous. There are an absolute ton of developments going up in bethesda, all along rockville pike, kensington, really everywhere you go. This is clearly an issue with THIS parcel.

We have residential developments going up in those places. What we need is commercial. The low business demand is suppressing both commercial and residential development in MoCo.

Exactly, PP. People keep citing Bethesda. Bethesda is singular and the development there is constrained to, what, eight square blocks? It’s also not terribly accessible to people that don’t live around there - congested, hard to park.

Rockville Pike used to be a “go to” for people all over MoCo with a great mix of higher end and lower end retail and restaurants and the promised retail development at White Flint would have been game changing. A boon to other businesses and residents.

Now there’s a massive crater in that lot, the Pike is slowly but surely becoming lower end retail and cheap food places … It looks awful and unattractive. Pike and Rose is nice but an island along that route. Montgomery Mall - not on the Pike but adjacent - is also dwindling. Nicer stores are closing and being replaced with fast clothing stores and the like.

Neighbors in Silver Spring are driving to Tysons to shop at a place with more of a high-low mix of stores and restaurants.

As a resident of MoCo it’s infuriating that the county isn’t doing more to promote businesses. This is what has driven growth across NoVa and transform areas that were once dwindling into vibrant communities. Think Clarendon, Crystal City, and Mosaic. Great for residents and great for people who want jobs.

It's so crowded, nobody drives there anymore!

If you don't like being in a car on a road with lots of other people in cars on that road, I suggest you consider

1. Metro (there's one right there in downtown Bethesda, helpfully named "Bethesda")
2. bicycle
3. parking in one of the many, many parking garages in downtown Bethesda that are a five-minute walk from your destination

Hi. Have you been on the Red Line lately? Not terribly accessible.

Bike? Sure. What’s the route you propose with two young children from Silver Spring?

Park? Yes, that would be great. Except the garages are full or close to it on the weekends and it’s a zoo. People yelling at people to leave a spot if they’re sitting in their car too long …. No, thank you.

Bike from SS? Easy. Rock creek park to Strathmore or back roads near Randolph. It’s actually way more pleasant and safer than the Beltway.

Rock Creek Park to Strathmore is not an easy way to get from Silver Spring to downtown Bethesda. Back roads near Randolph is doable but not pleasant. More pleasant than the Beltway, but most things are! There need to be better bike connections between west of Rock Creek and east of Rock Creek.

I'm the PP who suggested Metro/bike/walk in downtown Bethesda, and the reason I hate driving in downtown Bethesda is cars. If I were the only car on the road, I wouldn't hate it. But instead there are tons of other cars on the road, which proves that lots of people are actually fine driving in downtown Bethesda. I am not one of them, so I take Metro, or I bike.

Easy west highway or beach Dr to Connecticut

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Seriously, anyone making that comparison has never been to the real St James.

Can someone explain what this is to those who don’t have kids dedicated to team sports?

It’s also a gym, spa, water park, etc.

https://www.thestjames.com/location/springfield

“With 450,000 square feet to explore, we’re as committed to your improvement as you are. The St. James Flagship Springfield, VA combines a state-of-the-art sports complex with high-performance workout studios and premier entertainment and lifestyle experiences, so you can pursue your passions without pause.”

Never heard of it but it is EXACTLY what we need

[Anonymous]

[img]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Seriously, anyone making that comparison has never been to the real St James.

Can someone explain what this is to those who don’t have kids dedicated to team sports?

It’s also a gym, spa, water park, etc.

https://www.thestjames.com/location/springfield

“With 450,000 square feet to explore, we’re as committed to your improvement as you are. The St. James Flagship Springfield, VA combines a state-of-the-art sports complex with high-performance workout studios and premier entertainment and lifestyle experiences, so you can pursue your passions without pause.”

this would be amazing

It sounds amazing but if you’ve been there, you’d know it’s like an industrial nightmare. There are so many tournaments there that you have to park like a mile away. It’s massive. The people that belong to the gym there are constantly irritated by their inability to use the facility due to the massive crowds for the tournaments. It would completely jam up traffic between the beltway and white flint too. Whenever I hear I have to go to the St James, I have to mentally prepare myself for the stress of the traffic and parking and the sheer massive scale of it.

[Anonymous]

I’d also say on the st James concept — that would be a waste of the metro accessibility. All those tourney people drive. And I wouldn’t think it would generate a lot of county income as far as sales tax or anything.

It would be great if they could be a few larger employers — people could commute down from upper county on redline and/or young people up from DC and once purple line is in, can commute from Pg. would really be perfect for someplace to work. And then could probably put some retail in around it which workers would patronize for lunch or after.

Actually even moving all that medical stuff from Fernwood over there would make a ton of sense as then people could get to doctors appointments by metro whereas now they have to uber if they don’t drive.

I don’t think it makes sense to make this area all housing. They’ve just built a ton of small houses in the area north of strathmore. They would overbuild for the schools pretty quickly if they added a ton there, but an over 55 community would be perfect there with the metro access and close to shopping and relatively close to medical. I would move to a nice over 55 community there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which one of the candidates for County Exec is going to move along whatever the heck is supposed to be happening at this site? Nothing until election 2028? The country is going to take decades to recover from what has taken place in the last 1.5 years. Will the health campus to make a biomedical triangle pan out?

Not Friedson. He is taking lots of money from the Lerners, who are content to sit on this land.

Isn't the more likely scenario that Friedson pays the Lerners gobs upon gobs of money to develop the site, and also doesn't make the Lerners pay any property taxes for the next 10,000 years? And then we'll get some really expensive apartments (with maybe a few MPDUs thrown in) and that will make the stupid YIMBYs happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which one of the candidates for County Exec is going to move along whatever the heck is supposed to be happening at this site? Nothing until election 2028? The country is going to take decades to recover from what has taken place in the last 1.5 years. Will the health campus to make a biomedical triangle pan out?

Not Friedson. He is taking lots of money from the Lerners, who are content to sit on this land.

Isn't the more likely scenario that Friedson pays the Lerners gobs upon gobs of money to develop the site, and also doesn't make the Lerners pay any property taxes for the next 10,000 years? And then we'll get some really expensive apartments (with maybe a few MPDUs thrown in) and that will make the stupid YIMBYs happy.

I’d much rather apartments for young professionals than retirement homes or whatever people proposed up thread. Young professionals bring new and interesting restaurants and nice stores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which one of the candidates for County Exec is going to move along whatever the heck is supposed to be happening at this site? Nothing until election 2028? The country is going to take decades to recover from what has taken place in the last 1.5 years. Will the health campus to make a biomedical triangle pan out?

Not Friedson. He is taking lots of money from the Lerners, who are content to sit on this land.

Isn't the more likely scenario that Friedson pays the Lerners gobs upon gobs of money to develop the site, and also doesn't make the Lerners pay any property taxes for the next 10,000 years? And then we'll get some really expensive apartments (with maybe a few MPDUs thrown in) and that will make the stupid YIMBYs happy.

I’d much rather apartments for young professionals than retirement homes or whatever people proposed up thread. Young professionals bring new and interesting restaurants and nice stores.

No objection from me. I don't care what it is; by all means, let developers build whatever they think will be most profitable for them, and let them charge as much as they think people will pay. The problem, however, is that people like Friedson seem to think that we should give gobs and gobs of money and tax breaks to developers to get them to build. The point that I think Elrich has made is that projects like high-rent apartments in desirable, metro-accessible areas are highly profitable, so why do we need to pay developers to build them.