My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does elite mean here?

Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and perhaps Princeton & Yale are elite.

Cornell, Vanderbilt, Dartmouth, Northwestern, Duke, etc. etc. are not.

And yes, even Harvard/MIT/Stanford/Princeton/Yale won't give your kid a $150k job, wealthy spouse (a 1950's reason to go to a elite school, but okay), and a wealthy, highly-connected friend group off the bat. And thank god for that.

The purpose of top schools is to have top professors and top students to learn from and compete with, and improve oneself in the process. Not a $150k job, wealthy spouse and highly-connected wealthy network.

What these schools do provide beyond the education though is a pedigree that lasts through 40+ years of one's careers, and certainly can come in handy down the line - if you want to use it.

As for the rest - Cornell, Vanderbilt, Dartmouth, Northwestern, Duke, etc., most people do not view these schools to be more "elite" than top state flagships like Berkeley, Michigan, etc. Most will consider these students to either be wealthy dumb kids (too dumb for HYPSM) or top middle-class kids, the same that attend top flagships.

You sound old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the troll talking about Yale's psychology dept: It's literally #1 in the nation, you dipshit.

And the average starting salary for the #1 according to the data from the department of education = $38,000

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?130794-Yale-University&fos_code=4201&fos_credential=3

You are a hopeless. Read your damn citation, "The median annual earnings of students two years after graduation. Only data from students who received federal financial aid are included in the calculation."

One of the gals we personally know who recently graduated from Yale with a psyc BA has grandparents worth billions of dollars -- obvious rich heirs like her are not included in that calculation. The financial aid kids contributing to that low median salary are almost certainly 24 and 25-year-old master's/PhD students making $20,000 to 30,000 -- and probably a handful of kids in law school. Please stop embarrassing yourself. You're acting as if a psyc BA from Yale is akin to some dipshit drunken sorority girl at Tailgate State degree mill with a BA in psyc.

Thank you for strengthening my point.
Federal Financial aid = Grants + Loans(Stafford loan, Plus Loan), etc.
A source says 20% of Yale students receive Federal Pell Grant.(this is jut the grant not including federal loans) 
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/yale-university/paying-for-college/financial-aid/

Yale says 64% receive financial aid.  Normally any student receives any kind of financial aid at least accepts interest free Stafford Loan which is federal aid.  
So the data accounts for the majority(more than) of the students and these students are the hard working low to middle class families.
This is actually better data because it removes the rich kids, legacy kids who are already set up to work for their parents' companies or parents' friends' companies which would bump up the salary number.  College degree would an accessory for these kids.

So for the normal low to middle class kids in Yale psychology, they expect to start making $38,000 after graduation.

Now they realize that it's shitty after graduating from such an elite college with a cool  major. So they go to a graduate school in the related field accumulating more debt, but it won't do much.  You would need a PhD and become a clinical psychologist to make something in the field. 

Clinical psychologist is one of the best outcomes with a psychology degree.
However the average salary for clinical psychologies = $78,000 in VA.(This includes Master's but good luck finding a job with Master's)
It's better with a PhD but still 80,000 -900,00 after years and years of schooling with a dept to pay.  This is not a starting salary. This is the average salary of all the folks in the profession.
Nothing's wrong with being a clinical psychologist.
It's a great profession that helps people, and many people would enjoy studying and working in the field.

However it's just ath these are very important pieces of data and information we would need when choosing the field of study and colleges especially for the hardworking low to middle class families. I believe that's one of the most important purposes of this forum and this thread.
By the way, bringing in a few random cases that only you know or I know doesn't mean anything and is unintelligent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure what some posters are talking about, UPenn and all that. Most ivy parents see other ivies as peers.

U Penn ? Why is it a peer ? It is ok, but nothing special for undergraduate in Arts and Sciences. It is all relative.

You have a weird obsession with Penn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which "elite" college is this? UChicago's initial ROI is around $60,000 per year.

UChicago is elite only because they focused on yield. Not impressed.

[Anonymous]

Harvard will forever be the most elite but it isn’t the right school for everyone. All others schools will move up and down in the elite list, and so, the most important factor is fit. Rankings isn’t important, experience is!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard will forever be the most elite but it isn’t the right school for everyone. All others schools will move up and down in the elite list, and so, the most important factor is fit. Rankings isn’t important, experience is!

What if I major in Art and Film at Harvard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as a former immigrant (went back to my home country because US is completely insane and in precipitous decline) I will note that this whole college as a brand charade is a very American thing. Americans will spend 99% of their time discussing college culture and brands, and is this particular school exactly as much elite as that one, and then they will spend 1% discussing majors. they will let their kids study garbage and feel they should not say anything about it despite burning through hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Truer words have never been spoken. And, I am born in the USA.

I know, look at Oxford and Cambridge, everyone there majors in STEM. No stupid literature majors there . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as a former immigrant (went back to my home country because US is completely insane and in precipitous decline) I will note that this whole college as a brand charade is a very American thing. Americans will spend 99% of their time discussing college culture and brands, and is this particular school exactly as much elite as that one, and then they will spend 1% discussing majors. they will let their kids study garbage and feel they should not say anything about it despite burning through hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Truer words have never been spoken. And, I am born in the USA.

I know, look at Oxford and Cambridge, everyone there majors in STEM. No stupid literature majors there . . .

Literature is not stupid.
Nothing is wrong with it

It's just not elite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Dear OP,
Please provide your perceived list of "elite colleges" so we can have context here.
Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does elite mean here?

Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and perhaps Princeton & Yale are elite.

Cornell, Vanderbilt, Dartmouth, Northwestern, Duke, etc. etc. are not.

And yes, even Harvard/MIT/Stanford/Princeton/Yale won't give your kid a $150k job, wealthy spouse (a 1950's reason to go to a elite school, but okay), and a wealthy, highly-connected friend group off the bat. And thank god for that.

The purpose of top schools is to have top professors and top students to learn from and compete with, and improve oneself in the process. Not a $150k job, wealthy spouse and highly-connected wealthy network.

What these schools do provide beyond the education though is a pedigree that lasts through 40+ years of one's careers, and certainly can come in handy down the line - if you want to use it.

As for the rest - Cornell, Vanderbilt, Dartmouth, Northwestern, Duke, etc., most people do not view these schools to be more "elite" than top state flagships like Berkeley, Michigan, etc. Most will consider these students to either be wealthy dumb kids (too dumb for HYPSM) or top middle-class kids, the same that attend top flagships.

+1

Who are most people? Just cause you say it doesn’t make it so.

Selective firms in industry, graduate, medical and law schools.

A history major at Harvard, Princeton or Yale can waltz into a McKinsey consulting or Goldman Sachs investment banking job with little experience. Stanford, MIT graduates have a huge advantage in raising funds for start up ventures in Silicon Valley.

The name carries enough prestige and aura to give a significant advantage in hiring or business ventures.

The same simply does not hold true for Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Washington University, etc. In fact, many top investment firms that recruit at Berkeley, Michigan, UT-Austin don't bother recruiting at Vanderbilt, Washington University, etc.

Medical and law schools are generally less undergrad-prestige-obsessed, but admissions officers are people. Graduate schools care about the department quality within a given range.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Either put up an argument or shut up. Show me that the top industry firms recruiting at Vanderbilt are the same ones recruiting at Harvard rather than Michigan

What’s your background? Who are you? What makes you an expert on this?

Duke and Northwestern are functionally a tier above schools like Vanderbilt, Wustl et al. If you had even a remote understanding of how recruiting works at MBB you wouldn’t be making such bold claims. You’re almost there, but you land short, and ultimately are just confidently wrong.

Bruce Henderson, founder of BCG, graduated from Vanderbilt.

https://www.bcg.com/careers/join/on-campus/vanderbilt/welcome

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard will forever be the most elite but it isn’t the right school for everyone. All others schools will move up and down in the elite list, and so, the most important factor is fit. Rankings isn’t important, experience is!

What if I major in Art and Film at Harvard

Aren’t there some Oscar winning actors who went there? Harvard is a great degree to have even if you do not succeed in your first career. I don’t have a Harvard degree but I am humble enough to recognize that their degree worth a lot. Sure for film people, they think USC is better, but as I wrote before, the fit is more important. If you don’t think you will be Spielberg, then it is better to have a Harvard degree. That is assuming you can get in.

[Anonymous]

The real truth is not everyone can get into ivies etc. And when you do, it is a great feeling. When you don’t, you can’t help yourself judging those who are there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as a former immigrant (went back to my home country because US is completely insane and in precipitous decline) I will note that this whole college as a brand charade is a very American thing. Americans will spend 99% of their time discussing college culture and brands, and is this particular school exactly as much elite as that one, and then they will spend 1% discussing majors. they will let their kids study garbage and feel they should not say anything about it despite burning through hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Truer words have never been spoken. And, I am born in the USA.

I know, look at Oxford and Cambridge, everyone there majors in STEM. No stupid literature majors there . . .

Literature is not stupid.
Nothing is wrong with it

It's just not elite.

The other poster literally called it garbage. That’s how we know US colleges are terrible because they let students major in something other than STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard will forever be the most elite but it isn’t the right school for everyone. All others schools will move up and down in the elite list, and so, the most important factor is fit. Rankings isn’t important, experience is!

What if I major in Art and Film at Harvard

Aren’t there some Oscar winning actors who went there? Harvard is a great degree to have even if you do not succeed in your first career. I don’t have a Harvard degree but I am humble enough to recognize that their degree worth a lot. Sure for film people, they think USC is better, but as I wrote before, the fit is more important. If you don’t think you will be Spielberg, then it is better to have a Harvard degree. That is assuming you can get in.

Steve Jobs went to Reeds college. what does it say? Do we conclude Reeds college is elite?
Dont' just imagine things and throw that in without any data or source.
People here need good data and sources not just vauge imaginaions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The real truth is not everyone can get into ivies etc. And when you do, it is a great feeling. When you don’t, you can’t help yourself judging those who are there.

The actual truth is that the great feeling could turn into sadness when you start making $35,000 with your liberal art, communications, drama, psychology, history, etc etc degree.