The Dad Privilege Checklist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find it here: https://zawn.substack.com/p/the-dad-privilege-checklist

Please read the checklist and return for a conversation about it. I want to hear from others about their own experiences with coparenting their children with the children's dad.

Women who approach coparenting like this list (keeping score) will 💯 be unhappy and resentful. Not because they do more than their husband but because they are keeping score of every darn thing. Essentially, looking to create drama.

Yes, women should just stfu and do all the work.

Instead of counting who does what, how would it look if you counted who has more downtime. Doing entertainment and self care stuff, like scrolling, gym, tv, bathroom alone, etc.

I'm suspecting many on this thread are just underestimating how long the things dh does should take. And not noticing important tasks. It's kind of human nature to remember our own work more and not notice others' work.

given that time-use studies consistently show women have less leisure time, I feel pretty confident that those of us saying we have less leisure time can be trusted.

No one can be trusted to be objective when house chores are involved. Someone upthread is actually complaining that sometimes dh needs to finish a work report on the weekend. Hardly leisure time.

Meawhile dad checklist has the below contradictory bullets. If you don't take care of the cars, I strongly suspect you don't know how long it would take you to do it yourself. I've registered my kids. Filling out vaccination forms isn't that hard, and very rare.

I know that someone else will register my children for school.

I get to pretend that rare tasks, like changing the oil, take up as much time as the hundreds of tasks outlined above.

These are not contradictory unless the person registering the kids for school is claiming they do as much as the parent who does hundreds of other tasks.

Btw, I register the kids for school AND get the oil changed on the car. For my DH, it's changing the batteries in the smoke alarms that he thinks is equal to the many daily tasks I do while he sits around looking at his phone.

I mean yes, the point of listing things like school registration is because often the mom is the one doing it year after year in addition to all of the other annual/periodic tasks she also exclusively does. So yeah, this month my DH may take the car to be cleaned. Meanwhile I’m doing school registration, setting up summer tutoring, submitting insurance claime reimbursements, coordinating the IEP, arranging social events, planning DS’s birthday party … oh and also doing 100% of the cooking, cleaning and household laundry.

If you do all that, and you're not a sahm, then your dh is a pos. Actually, he should be involved in the iep and tutoring, in any case.

He shows up to the IEP meetings, often actively undermines me, complains about the tutor I hired (but doesn’t do anything to do it himself).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And then there are your kids, who hear your spiteful arguments about who "has" to deal with them today.

Start a therapy coin jar now.

Who is arguing about this in front of their kids?

Also, a lot of this is not about spending time with kids. It's about doing the work that goes into keeping the house running. If a child overhears his mom telling his dad "I need you to step up and help with getting the kids ready for school this year, including registering and going to the teacher meet and greet and getting supplies and updating uniforms," that's a GOOD thing for a child to hear. They are learning that there is more to having kids than just chatting with them at dinner, and also that their mother expects their father to be an equal partner in that work.

Now, if the dad's response is "uuuuuugh, I hate that stuff. You're so much better at it. Can you do it?" Well, that's going to communicate something pretty depressing to the kids. But the problem there is not that mom asked her husband to do more. It's that he does not value his kids enough to do it.

Actually, what they’re learning from the bolded is that this stuff really *is* Mom’s domain, which is why SHE is the one in charge and delegating tasks to her underling, their Dad. This dynamic is what eventually leads to all the complaints about language involving Dad “helping out” with raising his own kids.

Then what do you suggest a woman whose partner DOES NOT do this stuff without being asked/forced to, do?

The only way this changes is if men actually start doing more of this. But look at this thread. It's a bunch of men claiming they already do and the list is misogynist (despite study after study showing that women do far more childcare and housework than men and have less leisure time), women claiming their husbands already do all this (again, despite ample evidence that this is not the norm). and then both groups claiming that IF there are marriages where the woman is doing a lot more than the man, it's probably her fault anyway for either picking the wrong man or failing to properly delegate/invite him to help/ask in the right way/bing to controlling/etc. No matter what, it is never, ever the man's fault that his wife is doing 70-100% of the chilcare/housework related tasks. So what motive do men have to actually change their ways? People will bend over backwards to blame their wives anyway.

And now a woman who speaks up and says "you need to do this" is damaging her kids, either by making it sound like she doesn't love every minute of unpaid labor she does on behalf of her family, or reinforcing the idea that this is her job and her husband is just a "helper."

So, what is the solution?

DROP.THE.ROPE. That’s what I suggest.

Don’t pretend you’re his boss because you are absolutely not. Let some things go even if they cause some mild suffering for you/your kids in the short term (for instance, if your kid misses a dental cleaning I swear to God they’ll be ok!). Let DH see and experience the consequences of not doing anything rather than just telling him. And while you’re at it, keep an open mind to those things which really *don’t* lead to negative consequences if you just let them go, and then continue to let them go (ideal result being he does more of what matters while you expect less of what doesn’t).

If your kids and family are truly suffering and your DH still just doesn’t care, then get a divorce. But this mommy martyr act serves NO ONE.

there’s only so much rope to be dropped. missing one dental cleaning is ok, but 2 years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find it here: https://zawn.substack.com/p/the-dad-privilege-checklist

Please read the checklist and return for a conversation about it. I want to hear from others about their own experiences with coparenting their children with the children's dad.

Women who approach coparenting like this list (keeping score) will 💯 be unhappy and resentful. Not because they do more than their husband but because they are keeping score of every darn thing. Essentially, looking to create drama.

Yes, women should just stfu and do all the work.

Instead of counting who does what, how would it look if you counted who has more downtime. Doing entertainment and self care stuff, like scrolling, gym, tv, bathroom alone, etc.

I'm suspecting many on this thread are just underestimating how long the things dh does should take. And not noticing important tasks. It's kind of human nature to remember our own work more and not notice others' work.

given that time-use studies consistently show women have less leisure time, I feel pretty confident that those of us saying we have less leisure time can be trusted.

No one can be trusted to be objective when house chores are involved. Someone upthread is actually complaining that sometimes dh needs to finish a work report on the weekend. Hardly leisure time.

Meawhile dad checklist has the below contradictory bullets. If you don't take care of the cars, I strongly suspect you don't know how long it would take you to do it yourself. I've registered my kids. Filling out vaccination forms isn't that hard, and very rare.

I know that someone else will register my children for school.

I get to pretend that rare tasks, like changing the oil, take up as much time as the hundreds of tasks outlined above.

These are not contradictory unless the person registering the kids for school is claiming they do as much as the parent who does hundreds of other tasks.

Btw, I register the kids for school AND get the oil changed on the car. For my DH, it's changing the batteries in the smoke alarms that he thinks is equal to the many daily tasks I do while he sits around looking at his phone.

I mean yes, the point of listing things like school registration is because often the mom is the one doing it year after year in addition to all of the other annual/periodic tasks she also exclusively does. So yeah, this month my DH may take the car to be cleaned. Meanwhile I’m doing school registration, setting up summer tutoring, submitting insurance claime reimbursements, coordinating the IEP, arranging social events, planning DS’s birthday party … oh and also doing 100% of the cooking, cleaning and household laundry.

I wonder what your husbands are doing that you don’t see while you’re sitting around complaining about them on DCUM…

Lets see. He has been asleep/hiding all morning while I took DS to breakfast, picked up birthday gifts, organized a social event for later today, and picked up some groceries. In an hour DS and I will go out again to buy summer clothes, replace a broken appliance, and see a friend. Then I will oversee homework and make dinner.

Yea in between that I post on DCUM which is probably a terrible hobby but honestly I’m so exhausted that it becomes the easiest way to take a break.

OMG you are SUCH an insufferable martyr! No wonder he is hiding from you. Your poor kid.

Triggered, huh? Not sure what of what I listed there is being a “martyr” but I’m curious to hear it. I could also completely ignore my kid but I can’t really bring myself to do that.

For starters, listing going out to eat, planning a social event, and visiting a friend as if those completely OPTIONAL activities are SUCH difficult and important “work”… I can’t even spare an eye roll for this type of BS, lady.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And then there are your kids, who hear your spiteful arguments about who "has" to deal with them today.

Start a therapy coin jar now.

Who is arguing about this in front of their kids?

Also, a lot of this is not about spending time with kids. It's about doing the work that goes into keeping the house running. If a child overhears his mom telling his dad "I need you to step up and help with getting the kids ready for school this year, including registering and going to the teacher meet and greet and getting supplies and updating uniforms," that's a GOOD thing for a child to hear. They are learning that there is more to having kids than just chatting with them at dinner, and also that their mother expects their father to be an equal partner in that work.

Now, if the dad's response is "uuuuuugh, I hate that stuff. You're so much better at it. Can you do it?" Well, that's going to communicate something pretty depressing to the kids. But the problem there is not that mom asked her husband to do more. It's that he does not value his kids enough to do it.

Actually, what they’re learning from the bolded is that this stuff really *is* Mom’s domain, which is why SHE is the one in charge and delegating tasks to her underling, their Dad. This dynamic is what eventually leads to all the complaints about language involving Dad “helping out” with raising his own kids.

Then what do you suggest a woman whose partner DOES NOT do this stuff without being asked/forced to, do?

The only way this changes is if men actually start doing more of this. But look at this thread. It's a bunch of men claiming they already do and the list is misogynist (despite study after study showing that women do far more childcare and housework than men and have less leisure time), women claiming their husbands already do all this (again, despite ample evidence that this is not the norm). and then both groups claiming that IF there are marriages where the woman is doing a lot more than the man, it's probably her fault anyway for either picking the wrong man or failing to properly delegate/invite him to help/ask in the right way/bing to controlling/etc. No matter what, it is never, ever the man's fault that his wife is doing 70-100% of the chilcare/housework related tasks. So what motive do men have to actually change their ways? People will bend over backwards to blame their wives anyway.

And now a woman who speaks up and says "you need to do this" is damaging her kids, either by making it sound like she doesn't love every minute of unpaid labor she does on behalf of her family, or reinforcing the idea that this is her job and her husband is just a "helper."

So, what is the solution?

DROP.THE.ROPE. That’s what I suggest.

Don’t pretend you’re his boss because you are absolutely not. Let some things go even if they cause some mild suffering for you/your kids in the short term (for instance, if your kid misses a dental cleaning I swear to God they’ll be ok!). Let DH see and experience the consequences of not doing anything rather than just telling him. And while you’re at it, keep an open mind to those things which really *don’t* lead to negative consequences if you just let them go, and then continue to let them go (ideal result being he does more of what matters while you expect less of what doesn’t).

If your kids and family are truly suffering and your DH still just doesn’t care, then get a divorce. But this mommy martyr act serves NO ONE.

there’s only so much rope to be dropped. missing one dental cleaning is ok, but 2 years?

“If your kids and family are truly suffering and your DH still just doesn’t care, then get a divorce.”

Already covered in the post you responded to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think women just have higher standards and tend to perfectionism. Most of us have a feeling of never being good enough and yes, wanting other women not to judge us. Men don't do that with regard to parenting.
When I took a new job I was crying about being overwhelmed and my husband's idea was to "let it go". "It doesn't matter if the house isn't totally clean, it looks just fine to me." "It doesn't matter if we eat frozen pizza 3 times a week, you don't need to cook gourmet meals all the time." I want my kids to eat healthy dinners and use a clean bathroom! I want him to help me reach my standards, not lower them.

Oh dear. Wanting to eat more than frozen pizza and not having a filthy bathroom is not “perfectionism.” It’s an extremely minimal basic level.

+1, when your excuse for why men don't pull their weight is that when men have "high standards" that equate to basic hygiene and nutrition, you've really lost the plot.

When I hear this, I always wish these men would be forced to actually live down to what they claim are their standards. I think it would last for a little bit and then they'd realize they were depressed and unhealthy, and so were their kids, because it actually sucks to live in a filthy house and eat garbage and not take responsibility for our life.

I know what it looks like based on my xDH’s long vacations with our kid. Fast food or diner food every day, clothes dirty, sunburns (no hats or sunblock), smelling very bad and visibly grimy (no showers for a week).

And I’ll bet the kids have way more fun on vacation with Dad than they do on their carefully curated and controlled educational trips with their uptight mom…

Of course Dad can have fun when he neglects basic everything. Then mom can put it all back together with nutritious meals, haircuts, treating rashes/burns/chapped skin, doing the laundry. THAT is “Dad Privilege,” precisely!

It’s not “Dad Privilege”… It’s a VACATION. It’s SUPPOSED to be a break from normal daily life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find it here: https://zawn.substack.com/p/the-dad-privilege-checklist

Please read the checklist and return for a conversation about it. I want to hear from others about their own experiences with coparenting their children with the children's dad.

Women who approach coparenting like this list (keeping score) will 💯 be unhappy and resentful. Not because they do more than their husband but because they are keeping score of every darn thing. Essentially, looking to create drama.

Yes, women should just stfu and do all the work.

Instead of counting who does what, how would it look if you counted who has more downtime. Doing entertainment and self care stuff, like scrolling, gym, tv, bathroom alone, etc.

I'm suspecting many on this thread are just underestimating how long the things dh does should take. And not noticing important tasks. It's kind of human nature to remember our own work more and not notice others' work.

given that time-use studies consistently show women have less leisure time, I feel pretty confident that those of us saying we have less leisure time can be trusted.

No one can be trusted to be objective when house chores are involved. Someone upthread is actually complaining that sometimes dh needs to finish a work report on the weekend. Hardly leisure time.

Meawhile dad checklist has the below contradictory bullets. If you don't take care of the cars, I strongly suspect you don't know how long it would take you to do it yourself. I've registered my kids. Filling out vaccination forms isn't that hard, and very rare.

I know that someone else will register my children for school.

I get to pretend that rare tasks, like changing the oil, take up as much time as the hundreds of tasks outlined above.

These are not contradictory unless the person registering the kids for school is claiming they do as much as the parent who does hundreds of other tasks.

Btw, I register the kids for school AND get the oil changed on the car. For my DH, it's changing the batteries in the smoke alarms that he thinks is equal to the many daily tasks I do while he sits around looking at his phone.

I mean yes, the point of listing things like school registration is because often the mom is the one doing it year after year in addition to all of the other annual/periodic tasks she also exclusively does. So yeah, this month my DH may take the car to be cleaned. Meanwhile I’m doing school registration, setting up summer tutoring, submitting insurance claime reimbursements, coordinating the IEP, arranging social events, planning DS’s birthday party … oh and also doing 100% of the cooking, cleaning and household laundry.

I wonder what your husbands are doing that you don’t see while you’re sitting around complaining about them on DCUM…

Lets see. He has been asleep/hiding all morning while I took DS to breakfast, picked up birthday gifts, organized a social event for later today, and picked up some groceries. In an hour DS and I will go out again to buy summer clothes, replace a broken appliance, and see a friend. Then I will oversee homework and make dinner.

Yea in between that I post on DCUM which is probably a terrible hobby but honestly I’m so exhausted that it becomes the easiest way to take a break.

OMG you are SUCH an insufferable martyr! No wonder he is hiding from you. Your poor kid.

Triggered, huh? Not sure what of what I listed there is being a “martyr” but I’m curious to hear it. I could also completely ignore my kid but I can’t really bring myself to do that.

For starters, listing going out to eat, planning a social event, and visiting a friend as if those completely OPTIONAL activities are SUCH difficult and important “work”… I can’t even spare an eye roll for this type of BS, lady.

Spoken like a true advocate of Dad Privilege. It actually does matter to most sane people that their children develop friendships, and while I do as much as I can to let that happen on its own, it takes being proactive for younger kids. But sure I could let my kid sit alone on video games and eat cheerios 24/7. The fact is he already DOES a lot of that, precisely so I can do all of the other stuff (cook, clean, my own actual paying job).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think women just have higher standards and tend to perfectionism. Most of us have a feeling of never being good enough and yes, wanting other women not to judge us. Men don't do that with regard to parenting.
When I took a new job I was crying about being overwhelmed and my husband's idea was to "let it go". "It doesn't matter if the house isn't totally clean, it looks just fine to me." "It doesn't matter if we eat frozen pizza 3 times a week, you don't need to cook gourmet meals all the time." I want my kids to eat healthy dinners and use a clean bathroom! I want him to help me reach my standards, not lower them.

Oh dear. Wanting to eat more than frozen pizza and not having a filthy bathroom is not “perfectionism.” It’s an extremely minimal basic level.

+1, when your excuse for why men don't pull their weight is that when men have "high standards" that equate to basic hygiene and nutrition, you've really lost the plot.

When I hear this, I always wish these men would be forced to actually live down to what they claim are their standards. I think it would last for a little bit and then they'd realize they were depressed and unhealthy, and so were their kids, because it actually sucks to live in a filthy house and eat garbage and not take responsibility for our life.

I know what it looks like based on my xDH’s long vacations with our kid. Fast food or diner food every day, clothes dirty, sunburns (no hats or sunblock), smelling very bad and visibly grimy (no showers for a week).

And I’ll bet the kids have way more fun on vacation with Dad than they do on their carefully curated and controlled educational trips with their uptight mom…

Of course Dad can have fun when he neglects basic everything. Then mom can put it all back together with nutritious meals, haircuts, treating rashes/burns/chapped skin, doing the laundry. THAT is “Dad Privilege,” precisely!

It’s not “Dad Privilege”… It’s a VACATION. It’s SUPPOSED to be a break from normal daily life.

Oh it is 100% Dad Privilege when I pack for them, do all the laundry when they return, deal with whatever weird skin thing resulted. Once he showed up at the airport with our kid’s entire upper lip area from the lip to nostrils caked in dry snot and flaking irritated skin. They have a great time, true, but being the Disney Dad is a trope for a reason, not a defense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And then there are your kids, who hear your spiteful arguments about who "has" to deal with them today.

Start a therapy coin jar now.

Who is arguing about this in front of their kids?

Also, a lot of this is not about spending time with kids. It's about doing the work that goes into keeping the house running. If a child overhears his mom telling his dad "I need you to step up and help with getting the kids ready for school this year, including registering and going to the teacher meet and greet and getting supplies and updating uniforms," that's a GOOD thing for a child to hear. They are learning that there is more to having kids than just chatting with them at dinner, and also that their mother expects their father to be an equal partner in that work.

Now, if the dad's response is "uuuuuugh, I hate that stuff. You're so much better at it. Can you do it?" Well, that's going to communicate something pretty depressing to the kids. But the problem there is not that mom asked her husband to do more. It's that he does not value his kids enough to do it.

Actually, what they’re learning from the bolded is that this stuff really *is* Mom’s domain, which is why SHE is the one in charge and delegating tasks to her underling, their Dad. This dynamic is what eventually leads to all the complaints about language involving Dad “helping out” with raising his own kids.

Then what do you suggest a woman whose partner DOES NOT do this stuff without being asked/forced to, do?

The only way this changes is if men actually start doing more of this. But look at this thread. It's a bunch of men claiming they already do and the list is misogynist (despite study after study showing that women do far more childcare and housework than men and have less leisure time), women claiming their husbands already do all this (again, despite ample evidence that this is not the norm). and then both groups claiming that IF there are marriages where the woman is doing a lot more than the man, it's probably her fault anyway for either picking the wrong man or failing to properly delegate/invite him to help/ask in the right way/bing to controlling/etc. No matter what, it is never, ever the man's fault that his wife is doing 70-100% of the chilcare/housework related tasks. So what motive do men have to actually change their ways? People will bend over backwards to blame their wives anyway.

And now a woman who speaks up and says "you need to do this" is damaging her kids, either by making it sound like she doesn't love every minute of unpaid labor she does on behalf of her family, or reinforcing the idea that this is her job and her husband is just a "helper."

So, what is the solution?

DROP.THE.ROPE. That’s what I suggest.

Don’t pretend you’re his boss because you are absolutely not. Let some things go even if they cause some mild suffering for you/your kids in the short term (for instance, if your kid misses a dental cleaning I swear to God they’ll be ok!). Let DH see and experience the consequences of not doing anything rather than just telling him. And while you’re at it, keep an open mind to those things which really *don’t* lead to negative consequences if you just let them go, and then continue to let them go (ideal result being he does more of what matters while you expect less of what doesn’t).

If your kids and family are truly suffering and your DH still just doesn’t care, then get a divorce. But this mommy martyr act serves NO ONE.

there’s only so much rope to be dropped. missing one dental cleaning is ok, but 2 years?

“If your kids and family are truly suffering and your DH still just doesn’t care, then get a divorce.”

Already covered in the post you responded to.

right, Dad Privilege leads to divorce. No disagreement there, except it’s because the woman is suffering too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find it here: https://zawn.substack.com/p/the-dad-privilege-checklist

Please read the checklist and return for a conversation about it. I want to hear from others about their own experiences with coparenting their children with the children's dad.

Women who approach coparenting like this list (keeping score) will 💯 be unhappy and resentful. Not because they do more than their husband but because they are keeping score of every darn thing. Essentially, looking to create drama.

Yes, women should just stfu and do all the work.

Instead of counting who does what, how would it look if you counted who has more downtime. Doing entertainment and self care stuff, like scrolling, gym, tv, bathroom alone, etc.

I'm suspecting many on this thread are just underestimating how long the things dh does should take. And not noticing important tasks. It's kind of human nature to remember our own work more and not notice others' work.

given that time-use studies consistently show women have less leisure time, I feel pretty confident that those of us saying we have less leisure time can be trusted.

No one can be trusted to be objective when house chores are involved. Someone upthread is actually complaining that sometimes dh needs to finish a work report on the weekend. Hardly leisure time.

Meawhile dad checklist has the below contradictory bullets. If you don't take care of the cars, I strongly suspect you don't know how long it would take you to do it yourself. I've registered my kids. Filling out vaccination forms isn't that hard, and very rare.

I know that someone else will register my children for school.

I get to pretend that rare tasks, like changing the oil, take up as much time as the hundreds of tasks outlined above.

These are not contradictory unless the person registering the kids for school is claiming they do as much as the parent who does hundreds of other tasks.

Btw, I register the kids for school AND get the oil changed on the car. For my DH, it's changing the batteries in the smoke alarms that he thinks is equal to the many daily tasks I do while he sits around looking at his phone.

I mean yes, the point of listing things like school registration is because often the mom is the one doing it year after year in addition to all of the other annual/periodic tasks she also exclusively does. So yeah, this month my DH may take the car to be cleaned. Meanwhile I’m doing school registration, setting up summer tutoring, submitting insurance claime reimbursements, coordinating the IEP, arranging social events, planning DS’s birthday party … oh and also doing 100% of the cooking, cleaning and household laundry.

I wonder what your husbands are doing that you don’t see while you’re sitting around complaining about them on DCUM…

Lets see. He has been asleep/hiding all morning while I took DS to breakfast, picked up birthday gifts, organized a social event for later today, and picked up some groceries. In an hour DS and I will go out again to buy summer clothes, replace a broken appliance, and see a friend. Then I will oversee homework and make dinner.

Yea in between that I post on DCUM which is probably a terrible hobby but honestly I’m so exhausted that it becomes the easiest way to take a break.

OMG you are SUCH an insufferable martyr! No wonder he is hiding from you. Your poor kid.

Triggered, huh? Not sure what of what I listed there is being a “martyr” but I’m curious to hear it. I could also completely ignore my kid but I can’t really bring myself to do that.

For starters, listing going out to eat, planning a social event, and visiting a friend as if those completely OPTIONAL activities are SUCH difficult and important “work”… I can’t even spare an eye roll for this type of BS, lady.

Spoken like a true advocate of Dad Privilege. It actually does matter to most sane people that their children develop friendships, and while I do as much as I can to let that happen on its own, it takes being proactive for younger kids. But sure I could let my kid sit alone on video games and eat cheerios 24/7. The fact is he already DOES a lot of that, precisely so I can do all of the other stuff (cook, clean, my own actual paying job).

How do you manage to cultivate those friendships from way up there on your cross?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think women just have higher standards and tend to perfectionism. Most of us have a feeling of never being good enough and yes, wanting other women not to judge us. Men don't do that with regard to parenting.
When I took a new job I was crying about being overwhelmed and my husband's idea was to "let it go". "It doesn't matter if the house isn't totally clean, it looks just fine to me." "It doesn't matter if we eat frozen pizza 3 times a week, you don't need to cook gourmet meals all the time." I want my kids to eat healthy dinners and use a clean bathroom! I want him to help me reach my standards, not lower them.

Oh dear. Wanting to eat more than frozen pizza and not having a filthy bathroom is not “perfectionism.” It’s an extremely minimal basic level.

+1, when your excuse for why men don't pull their weight is that when men have "high standards" that equate to basic hygiene and nutrition, you've really lost the plot.

When I hear this, I always wish these men would be forced to actually live down to what they claim are their standards. I think it would last for a little bit and then they'd realize they were depressed and unhealthy, and so were their kids, because it actually sucks to live in a filthy house and eat garbage and not take responsibility for our life.

I know what it looks like based on my xDH’s long vacations with our kid. Fast food or diner food every day, clothes dirty, sunburns (no hats or sunblock), smelling very bad and visibly grimy (no showers for a week).

And I’ll bet the kids have way more fun on vacation with Dad than they do on their carefully curated and controlled educational trips with their uptight mom…

Of course Dad can have fun when he neglects basic everything. Then mom can put it all back together with nutritious meals, haircuts, treating rashes/burns/chapped skin, doing the laundry. THAT is “Dad Privilege,” precisely!

It’s not “Dad Privilege”… It’s a VACATION. It’s SUPPOSED to be a break from normal daily life.

Oh it is 100% Dad Privilege when I pack for them, do all the laundry when they return, deal with whatever weird skin thing resulted. Once he showed up at the airport with our kid’s entire upper lip area from the lip to nostrils caked in dry snot and flaking irritated skin. They have a great time, true, but being the Disney Dad is a trope for a reason, not a defense.

Sorry your picker was broken! No one’s fault but yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And then there are your kids, who hear your spiteful arguments about who "has" to deal with them today.

Start a therapy coin jar now.

Who is arguing about this in front of their kids?

Also, a lot of this is not about spending time with kids. It's about doing the work that goes into keeping the house running. If a child overhears his mom telling his dad "I need you to step up and help with getting the kids ready for school this year, including registering and going to the teacher meet and greet and getting supplies and updating uniforms," that's a GOOD thing for a child to hear. They are learning that there is more to having kids than just chatting with them at dinner, and also that their mother expects their father to be an equal partner in that work.

Now, if the dad's response is "uuuuuugh, I hate that stuff. You're so much better at it. Can you do it?" Well, that's going to communicate something pretty depressing to the kids. But the problem there is not that mom asked her husband to do more. It's that he does not value his kids enough to do it.

Actually, what they’re learning from the bolded is that this stuff really *is* Mom’s domain, which is why SHE is the one in charge and delegating tasks to her underling, their Dad. This dynamic is what eventually leads to all the complaints about language involving Dad “helping out” with raising his own kids.

Then what do you suggest a woman whose partner DOES NOT do this stuff without being asked/forced to, do?

The only way this changes is if men actually start doing more of this. But look at this thread. It's a bunch of men claiming they already do and the list is misogynist (despite study after study showing that women do far more childcare and housework than men and have less leisure time), women claiming their husbands already do all this (again, despite ample evidence that this is not the norm). and then both groups claiming that IF there are marriages where the woman is doing a lot more than the man, it's probably her fault anyway for either picking the wrong man or failing to properly delegate/invite him to help/ask in the right way/bing to controlling/etc. No matter what, it is never, ever the man's fault that his wife is doing 70-100% of the chilcare/housework related tasks. So what motive do men have to actually change their ways? People will bend over backwards to blame their wives anyway.

And now a woman who speaks up and says "you need to do this" is damaging her kids, either by making it sound like she doesn't love every minute of unpaid labor she does on behalf of her family, or reinforcing the idea that this is her job and her husband is just a "helper."

So, what is the solution?

DROP.THE.ROPE. That’s what I suggest.

Don’t pretend you’re his boss because you are absolutely not. Let some things go even if they cause some mild suffering for you/your kids in the short term (for instance, if your kid misses a dental cleaning I swear to God they’ll be ok!). Let DH see and experience the consequences of not doing anything rather than just telling him. And while you’re at it, keep an open mind to those things which really *don’t* lead to negative consequences if you just let them go, and then continue to let them go (ideal result being he does more of what matters while you expect less of what doesn’t).

If your kids and family are truly suffering and your DH still just doesn’t care, then get a divorce. But this mommy martyr act serves NO ONE.

there’s only so much rope to be dropped. missing one dental cleaning is ok, but 2 years?

“If your kids and family are truly suffering and your DH still just doesn’t care, then get a divorce.”

Already covered in the post you responded to.

right, Dad Privilege leads to divorce. No disagreement there, except it’s because the woman is suffering too.

Sure, I guess what I am saying is essentially put up or shut up. If he’s such an awful dad and husband, then just divorce him already. If he’s not that bad, then stop all of the useless, unproductive complaining.

And saying “dad privilege” is cringey and immature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find it here: https://zawn.substack.com/p/the-dad-privilege-checklist

Please read the checklist and return for a conversation about it. I want to hear from others about their own experiences with coparenting their children with the children's dad.

Women who approach coparenting like this list (keeping score) will 💯 be unhappy and resentful. Not because they do more than their husband but because they are keeping score of every darn thing. Essentially, looking to create drama.

Yes, women should just stfu and do all the work.

Instead of counting who does what, how would it look if you counted who has more downtime. Doing entertainment and self care stuff, like scrolling, gym, tv, bathroom alone, etc.

I'm suspecting many on this thread are just underestimating how long the things dh does should take. And not noticing important tasks. It's kind of human nature to remember our own work more and not notice others' work.

given that time-use studies consistently show women have less leisure time, I feel pretty confident that those of us saying we have less leisure time can be trusted.

Time use studies also show that men and women spend about the same amount of time in what I think most of us would consider "work" (paid work, childcare, and housework). The edge is actually slightly for men there. The extra leisure time men take isn't coming out of that combination, but no one seems to want to address that. My source here is this analysis of the American Time Use Study: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2013/03/14/chapter-6-time-in-work-and-leisure-patterns-by-gender-and-family-structure/ It shows that overall, men do .4 hours more of "work" per week, while in households with children, the gap is greater, with men doing about 2 hours more of "work" per week.

The most recent data I've seen (here: https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2023/time-spent-in-leisure-and-sports-activities-2022.htm) shows men taking roughly an extra 40 minutes a day in leisure. The gap in leisure time is probably smaller in households with children, in the Pew analysis from 2013 it was, then it was 2 hours per week of extra leisure time for men in households with children so roughly 16 minutes per day. Some of that seemingly comes out of sleep; women sleep an average of 14 minutes longer a day then men. I haven't dug into the data to see where the other discrepancies are, but I think the time use data actually shows men and women "work" equal amounts, men just take more for leisure too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think women just have higher standards and tend to perfectionism. Most of us have a feeling of never being good enough and yes, wanting other women not to judge us. Men don't do that with regard to parenting.
When I took a new job I was crying about being overwhelmed and my husband's idea was to "let it go". "It doesn't matter if the house isn't totally clean, it looks just fine to me." "It doesn't matter if we eat frozen pizza 3 times a week, you don't need to cook gourmet meals all the time." I want my kids to eat healthy dinners and use a clean bathroom! I want him to help me reach my standards, not lower them.

Oh dear. Wanting to eat more than frozen pizza and not having a filthy bathroom is not “perfectionism.” It’s an extremely minimal basic level.

+1, when your excuse for why men don't pull their weight is that when men have "high standards" that equate to basic hygiene and nutrition, you've really lost the plot.

When I hear this, I always wish these men would be forced to actually live down to what they claim are their standards. I think it would last for a little bit and then they'd realize they were depressed and unhealthy, and so were their kids, because it actually sucks to live in a filthy house and eat garbage and not take responsibility for our life.

I know what it looks like based on my xDH’s long vacations with our kid. Fast food or diner food every day, clothes dirty, sunburns (no hats or sunblock), smelling very bad and visibly grimy (no showers for a week).

And I’ll bet the kids have way more fun on vacation with Dad than they do on their carefully curated and controlled educational trips with their uptight mom…

Of course Dad can have fun when he neglects basic everything. Then mom can put it all back together with nutritious meals, haircuts, treating rashes/burns/chapped skin, doing the laundry. THAT is “Dad Privilege,” precisely!

It’s not “Dad Privilege”… It’s a VACATION. It’s SUPPOSED to be a break from normal daily life.

Oh it is 100% Dad Privilege when I pack for them, do all the laundry when they return, deal with whatever weird skin thing resulted. Once he showed up at the airport with our kid’s entire upper lip area from the lip to nostrils caked in dry snot and flaking irritated skin. They have a great time, true, but being the Disney Dad is a trope for a reason, not a defense.

Sorry your picker was broken! No one’s fault but yours.

So it’s not his fault?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find it here: https://zawn.substack.com/p/the-dad-privilege-checklist

Please read the checklist and return for a conversation about it. I want to hear from others about their own experiences with coparenting their children with the children's dad.

Women who approach coparenting like this list (keeping score) will 💯 be unhappy and resentful. Not because they do more than their husband but because they are keeping score of every darn thing. Essentially, looking to create drama.

Yes, women should just stfu and do all the work.

Instead of counting who does what, how would it look if you counted who has more downtime. Doing entertainment and self care stuff, like scrolling, gym, tv, bathroom alone, etc.

I'm suspecting many on this thread are just underestimating how long the things dh does should take. And not noticing important tasks. It's kind of human nature to remember our own work more and not notice others' work.

given that time-use studies consistently show women have less leisure time, I feel pretty confident that those of us saying we have less leisure time can be trusted.

Time use studies also show that men and women spend about the same amount of time in what I think most of us would consider "work" (paid work, childcare, and housework). The edge is actually slightly for men there. The extra leisure time men take isn't coming out of that combination, but no one seems to want to address that. My source here is this analysis of the American Time Use Study: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2013/03/14/chapter-6-time-in-work-and-leisure-patterns-by-gender-and-family-structure/ It shows that overall, men do .4 hours more of "work" per week, while in households with children, the gap is greater, with men doing about 2 hours more of "work" per week.

The most recent data I've seen (here: https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2023/time-spent-in-leisure-and-sports-activities-2022.htm) shows men taking roughly an extra 40 minutes a day in leisure. The gap in leisure time is probably smaller in households with children, in the Pew analysis from 2013 it was, then it was 2 hours per week of extra leisure time for men in households with children so roughly 16 minutes per day. Some of that seemingly comes out of sleep; women sleep an average of 14 minutes longer a day then men. I haven't dug into the data to see where the other discrepancies are, but I think the time use data actually shows men and women "work" equal amounts, men just take more for leisure too.

here’s another one showing that single mothers do LESS domestic work than married women: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6560646/

the researchers observe that when mothers live with other adults (not a husband/boyfriend) their domestic labor goes down.

“ Thus, although partnered mothers theoretically can share some household labor with their partners, our findings showed that living with a heterosexual male partner was associated with mothers’ greater time spent on housework, consistent with the gender perspective”

conclusion: dads drag moms down.

[Anonymous]

Eh I know two women, both doctors, whose husbands do everything at home. Playdates, cooking, cleaning, appointments, etc. pretty much everything. My DH does more cleaning than me and schedules all the playdates for our son. He grew up with a single mom, which may play a role.