Screened for drugs without permission

[Anonymous]

I bet a lot of these doctors are 100% pro-choice and for a woman's reproductive rights, and see absolutely nothing wrong with testing for STIs or drugs without discussion or the explicit consent of the pregnant person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you white? Do you present as upper middle class or higher? There is definitely a double standard. In general though most wealthy and educated people aren't using Kaiser if they can help it so it tends to have more people who are lower income and less educated.

I’m white, I’ve had several doctors drug test and std test me without telling me. It’s bizzare they don’t tell you. I had the tech taking my blood tell me as she thought it was odd and wanted to verify given the other tests being done. I did not care and did them but doctors should tell you what they are testing for and costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you for the responses everyone. To be clear, I am not claiming that what they did was illegal. As I mentioned in my original post, I understand that I could have and should have asked for more details about exactly what they were testing, and lesson learned. However, I can guarantee that I did not sign anything that day authorizing any drug screen or any blood work at all(which I guess they don't need from a legal perspective).

Regardless of the legal status I do feel disrespected. As to the reasons I care, it is a matter of trust and consent. I don't want to feel like a suspect every time i seek medical care and even though I don't use drugs, I dislike the idea of women who do use drugs becoming targets by seeking care.

I am skeptical of the idea that making a fuss about this would "raise red flags" in the system but if it did, I would find that all the more reason to make a fuss. I think the practice is unethical and raising red flags over complaints about an unethical practice is even more unethical. In any case, I feel decently well placed to defend myself against any false suspicion, but of course I would rather not have to.

With all that said, I don't know if there is much I can do. I can complain to the various oversight boards and to Kaiser directly. I could also have a frank conversation with my doctor. I might try some subset of those options but I don't anticipate any progress.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

You didn't authorize ANY blood work at all but you... seem to have permitted them to stick the needle in your arm and draw blood...? What am I missing here? Also, it's simply not that big of a deal. As a PP said, this and STD panels are standard practice. The provider probably didn't put a spot light on it for you because it's entirely routine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you for the responses everyone. To be clear, I am not claiming that what they did was illegal. As I mentioned in my original post, I understand that I could have and should have asked for more details about exactly what they were testing, and lesson learned. However, I can guarantee that I did not sign anything that day authorizing any drug screen or any blood work at all(which I guess they don't need from a legal perspective).

Regardless of the legal status I do feel disrespected. As to the reasons I care, it is a matter of trust and consent. I don't want to feel like a suspect every time i seek medical care and even though I don't use drugs, I dislike the idea of women who do use drugs becoming targets by seeking care.

I am skeptical of the idea that making a fuss about this would "raise red flags" in the system but if it did, I would find that all the more reason to make a fuss. I think the practice is unethical and raising red flags over complaints about an unethical practice is even more unethical. In any case, I feel decently well placed to defend myself against any false suspicion, but of course I would rather not have to.

With all that said, I don't know if there is much I can do. I can complain to the various oversight boards and to Kaiser directly. I could also have a frank conversation with my doctor. I might try some subset of those options but I don't anticipate any progress.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

You didn't authorize ANY blood work at all but you... seem to have permitted them to stick the needle in your arm and draw blood...? What am I missing here? Also, it's simply not that big of a deal. As a PP said, this and STD panels are standard practice. The provider probably didn't put a spot light on it for you because it's entirely routine.

They should still review what they are testing for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you for the responses everyone. To be clear, I am not claiming that what they did was illegal. As I mentioned in my original post, I understand that I could have and should have asked for more details about exactly what they were testing, and lesson learned. However, I can guarantee that I did not sign anything that day authorizing any drug screen or any blood work at all(which I guess they don't need from a legal perspective).

Regardless of the legal status I do feel disrespected. As to the reasons I care, it is a matter of trust and consent. I don't want to feel like a suspect every time i seek medical care and even though I don't use drugs, I dislike the idea of women who do use drugs becoming targets by seeking care.

I am skeptical of the idea that making a fuss about this would "raise red flags" in the system but if it did, I would find that all the more reason to make a fuss. I think the practice is unethical and raising red flags over complaints about an unethical practice is even more unethical. In any case, I feel decently well placed to defend myself against any false suspicion, but of course I would rather not have to.

With all that said, I don't know if there is much I can do. I can complain to the various oversight boards and to Kaiser directly. I could also have a frank conversation with my doctor. I might try some subset of those options but I don't anticipate any progress.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

You didn't authorize ANY blood work at all but you... seem to have permitted them to stick the needle in your arm and draw blood...? What am I missing here? Also, it's simply not that big of a deal. As a PP said, this and STD panels are standard practice. The provider probably didn't put a spot light on it for you because it's entirely routine.

I said I didn't *sign anything* authorizing blood work, not that I didn't generally consent to blood work. This was in response to specific claims that I must have signed something but did not read the fine print.

I disagree that the provider didn't spotlight it because it is standard practice. I think it was pretty clearly intentional to not inform patients about this and it seems to match the expert of others at Kaiser, here and other places I've read about it. I was informed, for example, about the std screen part. You might not, but many people feel very differently about a drug screen than an std screen, myself obviously included.

[Anonymous]

This question is really no different than the abortion debate. Is the fetus entitled to protection by the state? I think most people here would say no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you for the responses everyone. To be clear, I am not claiming that what they did was illegal. As I mentioned in my original post, I understand that I could have and should have asked for more details about exactly what they were testing, and lesson learned. However, I can guarantee that I did not sign anything that day authorizing any drug screen or any blood work at all(which I guess they don't need from a legal perspective).

Regardless of the legal status I do feel disrespected. As to the reasons I care, it is a matter of trust and consent. I don't want to feel like a suspect every time i seek medical care and even though I don't use drugs, I dislike the idea of women who do use drugs becoming targets by seeking care.

I am skeptical of the idea that making a fuss about this would "raise red flags" in the system but if it did, I would find that all the more reason to make a fuss. I think the practice is unethical and raising red flags over complaints about an unethical practice is even more unethical. In any case, I feel decently well placed to defend myself against any false suspicion, but of course I would rather not have to.

With all that said, I don't know if there is much I can do. I can complain to the various oversight boards and to Kaiser directly. I could also have a frank conversation with my doctor. I might try some subset of those options but I don't anticipate any progress.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

You didn't authorize ANY blood work at all but you... seem to have permitted them to stick the needle in your arm and draw blood...? What am I missing here? Also, it's simply not that big of a deal. As a PP said, this and STD panels are standard practice. The provider probably didn't put a spot light on it for you because it's entirely routine.

They should still review what they are testing for.

Seems pretty obvious you don’t work in healthcare. Do you know how long it would take with each patient to review each and every test you are going to perform? Doctors run late enough as it is. Add that into the mix and they’d never get anything done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you for the responses everyone. To be clear, I am not claiming that what they did was illegal. As I mentioned in my original post, I understand that I could have and should have asked for more details about exactly what they were testing, and lesson learned. However, I can guarantee that I did not sign anything that day authorizing any drug screen or any blood work at all(which I guess they don't need from a legal perspective).

Regardless of the legal status I do feel disrespected. As to the reasons I care, it is a matter of trust and consent. I don't want to feel like a suspect every time i seek medical care and even though I don't use drugs, I dislike the idea of women who do use drugs becoming targets by seeking care.

I am skeptical of the idea that making a fuss about this would "raise red flags" in the system but if it did, I would find that all the more reason to make a fuss. I think the practice is unethical and raising red flags over complaints about an unethical practice is even more unethical. In any case, I feel decently well placed to defend myself against any false suspicion, but of course I would rather not have to.

With all that said, I don't know if there is much I can do. I can complain to the various oversight boards and to Kaiser directly. I could also have a frank conversation with my doctor. I might try some subset of those options but I don't anticipate any progress.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

You didn't authorize ANY blood work at all but you... seem to have permitted them to stick the needle in your arm and draw blood...? What am I missing here? Also, it's simply not that big of a deal. As a PP said, this and STD panels are standard practice. The provider probably didn't put a spot light on it for you because it's entirely routine.

They should still review what they are testing for.

Seems pretty obvious you don’t work in healthcare. Do you know how long it would take with each patient to review each and every test you are going to perform? Doctors run late enough as it is. Add that into the mix and they’d never get anything done.

Oh come on, the idea that doctors are not mentioning drug tests because they don't have time or just forget is laughable. I would believe that of a cholesterol test, easily. This is a case of intentional sneakiness.

If they they had any intention of being transparent, they wouldn't test at all, they would just ask the patient, in person or on a form. The only value of the test is to see if the patient is lying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you for the responses everyone. To be clear, I am not claiming that what they did was illegal. As I mentioned in my original post, I understand that I could have and should have asked for more details about exactly what they were testing, and lesson learned. However, I can guarantee that I did not sign anything that day authorizing any drug screen or any blood work at all(which I guess they don't need from a legal perspective).

Regardless of the legal status I do feel disrespected. As to the reasons I care, it is a matter of trust and consent. I don't want to feel like a suspect every time i seek medical care and even though I don't use drugs, I dislike the idea of women who do use drugs becoming targets by seeking care.

I am skeptical of the idea that making a fuss about this would "raise red flags" in the system but if it did, I would find that all the more reason to make a fuss. I think the practice is unethical and raising red flags over complaints about an unethical practice is even more unethical. In any case, I feel decently well placed to defend myself against any false suspicion, but of course I would rather not have to.

With all that said, I don't know if there is much I can do. I can complain to the various oversight boards and to Kaiser directly. I could also have a frank conversation with my doctor. I might try some subset of those options but I don't anticipate any progress.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

You didn't authorize ANY blood work at all but you... seem to have permitted them to stick the needle in your arm and draw blood...? What am I missing here? Also, it's simply not that big of a deal. As a PP said, this and STD panels are standard practice. The provider probably didn't put a spot light on it for you because it's entirely routine.

They should still review what they are testing for.

Seems pretty obvious you don’t work in healthcare. Do you know how long it would take with each patient to review each and every test you are going to perform? Doctors run late enough as it is. Add that into the mix and they’d never get anything done.

Oh come on, the idea that doctors are not mentioning drug tests because they don't have time or just forget is laughable. I would believe that of a cholesterol test, easily. This is a case of intentional sneakiness.

If they they had any intention of being transparent, they wouldn't test at all, they would just ask the patient, in person or on a form. The only value of the test is to see if the patient is lying.

The PP said they should review what they are testing for. You think she meant that they should only point out the drug test, and not everything else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you for the responses everyone. To be clear, I am not claiming that what they did was illegal. As I mentioned in my original post, I understand that I could have and should have asked for more details about exactly what they were testing, and lesson learned. However, I can guarantee that I did not sign anything that day authorizing any drug screen or any blood work at all(which I guess they don't need from a legal perspective).

Regardless of the legal status I do feel disrespected. As to the reasons I care, it is a matter of trust and consent. I don't want to feel like a suspect every time i seek medical care and even though I don't use drugs, I dislike the idea of women who do use drugs becoming targets by seeking care.

I am skeptical of the idea that making a fuss about this would "raise red flags" in the system but if it did, I would find that all the more reason to make a fuss. I think the practice is unethical and raising red flags over complaints about an unethical practice is even more unethical. In any case, I feel decently well placed to defend myself against any false suspicion, but of course I would rather not have to.

With all that said, I don't know if there is much I can do. I can complain to the various oversight boards and to Kaiser directly. I could also have a frank conversation with my doctor. I might try some subset of those options but I don't anticipate any progress.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

You didn't authorize ANY blood work at all but you... seem to have permitted them to stick the needle in your arm and draw blood...? What am I missing here? Also, it's simply not that big of a deal. As a PP said, this and STD panels are standard practice. The provider probably didn't put a spot light on it for you because it's entirely routine.

They should still review what they are testing for.

Seems pretty obvious you don’t work in healthcare. Do you know how long it would take with each patient to review each and every test you are going to perform? Doctors run late enough as it is. Add that into the mix and they’d never get anything done.

Then they should not be doctors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you for the responses everyone. To be clear, I am not claiming that what they did was illegal. As I mentioned in my original post, I understand that I could have and should have asked for more details about exactly what they were testing, and lesson learned. However, I can guarantee that I did not sign anything that day authorizing any drug screen or any blood work at all(which I guess they don't need from a legal perspective).

Regardless of the legal status I do feel disrespected. As to the reasons I care, it is a matter of trust and consent. I don't want to feel like a suspect every time i seek medical care and even though I don't use drugs, I dislike the idea of women who do use drugs becoming targets by seeking care.

I am skeptical of the idea that making a fuss about this would "raise red flags" in the system but if it did, I would find that all the more reason to make a fuss. I think the practice is unethical and raising red flags over complaints about an unethical practice is even more unethical. In any case, I feel decently well placed to defend myself against any false suspicion, but of course I would rather not have to.

With all that said, I don't know if there is much I can do. I can complain to the various oversight boards and to Kaiser directly. I could also have a frank conversation with my doctor. I might try some subset of those options but I don't anticipate any progress.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

You didn't authorize ANY blood work at all but you... seem to have permitted them to stick the needle in your arm and draw blood...? What am I missing here? Also, it's simply not that big of a deal. As a PP said, this and STD panels are standard practice. The provider probably didn't put a spot light on it for you because it's entirely routine.

They should still review what they are testing for.

Seems pretty obvious you don’t work in healthcare. Do you know how long it would take with each patient to review each and every test you are going to perform? Doctors run late enough as it is. Add that into the mix and they’d never get anything done.

Oh come on, the idea that doctors are not mentioning drug tests because they don't have time or just forget is laughable. I would believe that of a cholesterol test, easily. This is a case of intentional sneakiness.

If they they had any intention of being transparent, they wouldn't test at all, they would just ask the patient, in person or on a form. The only value of the test is to see if the patient is lying.

The PP said they should review what they are testing for. You think she meant that they should only point out the drug test, and not everything else?

No, give a general run down of the tests done.

[Anonymous]

OP, I had the same experience. My doctor just said they were going to run prenatal blood tests and we discussed the NT screen part of the test and any family history genetic screening tests. It did seem that they went out of their way not to mention anything controversial, like STD, HIV or drug testing, that was also included. I think they just wanted to check the box without having to argue with patients that it wasn't necessary. I'm sure I never asked specifically, but they also absolutely didn't mention it. This does seem to be a standard practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you black? I know a lot of PoC get screened for drugs at a higher rate than white people.

This is routine for everyone. You want to pick a fight, try something real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you for the responses everyone. To be clear, I am not claiming that what they did was illegal. As I mentioned in my original post, I understand that I could have and should have asked for more details about exactly what they were testing, and lesson learned. However, I can guarantee that I did not sign anything that day authorizing any drug screen or any blood work at all(which I guess they don't need from a legal perspective).

Regardless of the legal status I do feel disrespected. As to the reasons I care, it is a matter of trust and consent. I don't want to feel like a suspect every time i seek medical care and even though I don't use drugs, I dislike the idea of women who do use drugs becoming targets by seeking care.

I am skeptical of the idea that making a fuss about this would "raise red flags" in the system but if it did, I would find that all the more reason to make a fuss. I think the practice is unethical and raising red flags over complaints about an unethical practice is even more unethical. In any case, I feel decently well placed to defend myself against any false suspicion, but of course I would rather not have to.

With all that said, I don't know if there is much I can do. I can complain to the various oversight boards and to Kaiser directly. I could also have a frank conversation with my doctor. I might try some subset of those options but I don't anticipate any progress.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

You didn't authorize ANY blood work at all but you... seem to have permitted them to stick the needle in your arm and draw blood...? What am I missing here? Also, it's simply not that big of a deal. As a PP said, this and STD panels are standard practice. The provider probably didn't put a spot light on it for you because it's entirely routine.

They should still review what they are testing for.

Seems pretty obvious you don’t work in healthcare. Do you know how long it would take with each patient to review each and every test you are going to perform? Doctors run late enough as it is. Add that into the mix and they’d never get anything done.

Then they should not be doctors.

You couldn’t handle it for 2 hours.
We’re all going our best. If you can do it better, then get your a$$ to med school and show the rest of us how it’s done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had the same experience. My doctor just said they were going to run prenatal blood tests and we discussed the NT screen part of the test and any family history genetic screening tests. It did seem that they went out of their way not to mention anything controversial, like STD, HIV or drug testing, that was also included. I think they just wanted to check the box without having to argue with patients that it wasn't necessary. I'm sure I never asked specifically, but they also absolutely didn't mention it. This does seem to be a standard practice.

To be tested for HIV you need to sign a specific paper.