Screened for drugs without permission

[Anonymous]

I was pretty offended every time they tested me for STDs (3x each pregnancy). I get why, but still I didn't like it.

Most things about pregnancy and birth are dehumanizing, so just smile and nod.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you for the responses everyone. To be clear, I am not claiming that what they did was illegal. As I mentioned in my original post, I understand that I could have and should have asked for more details about exactly what they were testing, and lesson learned. However, I can guarantee that I did not sign anything that day authorizing any drug screen or any blood work at all(which I guess they don't need from a legal perspective).

Regardless of the legal status I do feel disrespected. As to the reasons I care, it is a matter of trust and consent. I don't want to feel like a suspect every time i seek medical care and even though I don't use drugs, I dislike the idea of women who do use drugs becoming targets by seeking care.

I am skeptical of the idea that making a fuss about this would "raise red flags" in the system but if it did, I would find that all the more reason to make a fuss. I think the practice is unethical and raising red flags over complaints about an unethical practice is even more unethical. In any case, I feel decently well placed to defend myself against any false suspicion, but of course I would rather not have to.

With all that said, I don't know if there is much I can do. I can complain to the various oversight boards and to Kaiser directly. I could also have a frank conversation with my doctor. I might try some subset of those options but I don't anticipate any progress.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

You didn't authorize ANY blood work at all but you... seem to have permitted them to stick the needle in your arm and draw blood...? What am I missing here? Also, it's simply not that big of a deal. As a PP said, this and STD panels are standard practice. The provider probably didn't put a spot light on it for you because it's entirely routine.

They should still review what they are testing for.

Seems pretty obvious you don’t work in healthcare. Do you know how long it would take with each patient to review each and every test you are going to perform? Doctors run late enough as it is. Add that into the mix and they’d never get anything done.

Then they should not be doctors.

You couldn’t handle it for 2 hours.
We’re all going our best. If you can do it better, then get your a$$ to med school and show the rest of us how it’s done.

It wouldn't be so hard if doctors themselves didn't lobby so aggressively to keep the number of doctors in short supply.

Right. Because that’s totes what’s stopping you.

You're a disgusting human being, I feel bad for your patients.

Don’t. I work in public health. They are so happy to have me. None of them are entitled a$$holes like the complainers on this thread. I don’t have to deal with their ridiculous whining. We have a great time.

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand why anyone except someone using drugs would care about this. I had 3 babies and didn’t really even ask about what was being tested for, just wanted blood work done on whatever was needed so my babies would be healthy.

If you don’t do drugs this is a nonissue. Even if you get a false positive, it can be referred for further assays to figure out it was not a true positive.

I think there is merit to the argument of getting CPS involved (potentially scaring some women away from receiving prenatal care) vs getting them addiction help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why anyone except someone using drugs would care about this. I had 3 babies and didn’t really even ask about what was being tested for, just wanted blood work done on whatever was needed so my babies would be healthy.

If you don’t do drugs this is a nonissue. Even if you get a false positive, it can be referred for further assays to figure out it was not a true positive.

I think there is merit to the argument of getting CPS involved (potentially scaring some women away from receiving prenatal care) vs getting them addiction help.

I’m surprised at the length of this thread. If you’re not using then why do you even care? It’ll come back negative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also have Kaiser insurance.

My doctor explained every test she was ordering when I had my initial blood work. She did order drug screening, and told me it was standard, but also told me she understood if I was uncomfortable. I think I had every test available done in the beginning of my pregnancy. I was grateful for that!

Who is your doctor?? Please please please share

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you for the responses everyone. To be clear, I am not claiming that what they did was illegal. As I mentioned in my original post, I understand that I could have and should have asked for more details about exactly what they were testing, and lesson learned. However, I can guarantee that I did not sign anything that day authorizing any drug screen or any blood work at all(which I guess they don't need from a legal perspective).

Regardless of the legal status I do feel disrespected. As to the reasons I care, it is a matter of trust and consent. I don't want to feel like a suspect every time i seek medical care and even though I don't use drugs, I dislike the idea of women who do use drugs becoming targets by seeking care.

I am skeptical of the idea that making a fuss about this would "raise red flags" in the system but if it did, I would find that all the more reason to make a fuss. I think the practice is unethical and raising red flags over complaints about an unethical practice is even more unethical. In any case, I feel decently well placed to defend myself against any false suspicion, but of course I would rather not have to.

With all that said, I don't know if there is much I can do. I can complain to the various oversight boards and to Kaiser directly. I could also have a frank conversation with my doctor. I might try some subset of those options but I don't anticipate any progress.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

You didn't authorize ANY blood work at all but you... seem to have permitted them to stick the needle in your arm and draw blood...? What am I missing here? Also, it's simply not that big of a deal. As a PP said, this and STD panels are standard practice. The provider probably didn't put a spot light on it for you because it's entirely routine.

They should still review what they are testing for.

Seems pretty obvious you don’t work in healthcare. Do you know how long it would take with each patient to review each and every test you are going to perform? Doctors run late enough as it is. Add that into the mix and they’d never get anything done.

Then they should not be doctors.

You couldn’t handle it for 2 hours.
We’re all going our best. If you can do it better, then get your a$$ to med school and show the rest of us how it’s done.

It wouldn't be so hard if doctors themselves didn't lobby so aggressively to keep the number of doctors in short supply.

Right. Because that’s totes what’s stopping you.

You're a disgusting human being, I feel bad for your patients.

Don’t. I work in public health. They are so happy to have me. None of them are entitled a$$holes like the complainers on this thread. I don’t have to deal with their ridiculous whining. We have a great time.

You have no idea how much you disgust me. Doctors like you are the reason I probably will skip out on prenatal care next pregnancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why anyone except someone using drugs would care about this. I had 3 babies and didn’t really even ask about what was being tested for, just wanted blood work done on whatever was needed so my babies would be healthy.

If you don’t do drugs this is a nonissue. Even if you get a false positive, it can be referred for further assays to figure out it was not a true positive.

I think there is merit to the argument of getting CPS involved (potentially scaring some women away from receiving prenatal care) vs getting them addiction help.

It is a respect for patient autonomy issue. I'm sorry you can't see that. People like you are why women endure a lower standard of care and respect when they are pregnant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why anyone except someone using drugs would care about this. I had 3 babies and didn’t really even ask about what was being tested for, just wanted blood work done on whatever was needed so my babies would be healthy.

If you don’t do drugs this is a nonissue. Even if you get a false positive, it can be referred for further assays to figure out it was not a true positive.

I think there is merit to the argument of getting CPS involved (potentially scaring some women away from receiving prenatal care) vs getting them addiction help.

I’m surprised at the length of this thread. If you’re not using then why do you even care? It’ll come back negative.

Right. Why care about anything that doesn't directly affect you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you for the responses everyone. To be clear, I am not claiming that what they did was illegal. As I mentioned in my original post, I understand that I could have and should have asked for more details about exactly what they were testing, and lesson learned. However, I can guarantee that I did not sign anything that day authorizing any drug screen or any blood work at all(which I guess they don't need from a legal perspective).

Regardless of the legal status I do feel disrespected. As to the reasons I care, it is a matter of trust and consent. I don't want to feel like a suspect every time i seek medical care and even though I don't use drugs, I dislike the idea of women who do use drugs becoming targets by seeking care.

I am skeptical of the idea that making a fuss about this would "raise red flags" in the system but if it did, I would find that all the more reason to make a fuss. I think the practice is unethical and raising red flags over complaints about an unethical practice is even more unethical. In any case, I feel decently well placed to defend myself against any false suspicion, but of course I would rather not have to.

With all that said, I don't know if there is much I can do. I can complain to the various oversight boards and to Kaiser directly. I could also have a frank conversation with my doctor. I might try some subset of those options but I don't anticipate any progress.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

You didn't authorize ANY blood work at all but you... seem to have permitted them to stick the needle in your arm and draw blood...? What am I missing here? Also, it's simply not that big of a deal. As a PP said, this and STD panels are standard practice. The provider probably didn't put a spot light on it for you because it's entirely routine.

They should still review what they are testing for.

Seems pretty obvious you don’t work in healthcare. Do you know how long it would take with each patient to review each and every test you are going to perform? Doctors run late enough as it is. Add that into the mix and they’d never get anything done.

Then they should not be doctors.

You couldn’t handle it for 2 hours.
We’re all going our best. If you can do it better, then get your a$$ to med school and show the rest of us how it’s done.

It wouldn't be so hard if doctors themselves didn't lobby so aggressively to keep the number of doctors in short supply.

Right. Because that’s totes what’s stopping you.

You're a disgusting human being, I feel bad for your patients.

Don’t. I work in public health. They are so happy to have me. None of them are entitled a$$holes like the complainers on this thread. I don’t have to deal with their ridiculous whining. We have a great time.

You have no idea how much you disgust me. Doctors like you are the reason I probably will skip out on prenatal care next pregnancy.

Don’t do that— just fire doctors like her.

D.C. is full of doctors. Pick one who takes time to get informed consent (which is actually the standard of care…) and hire that doctor! It’s a service provider like any other.

[Anonymous]

To the posters saying that it doesn't matter on a practical level, that is obviously false. Every medical test runs the risk of false positives (in some cases for common causes like eating poppy seeds, but also just randomly or due to cross contamination or labeling mix ups). Every false positive involves a potentially traumatic nightmare involving CPS. This is not harmless on a practical level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you for the responses everyone. To be clear, I am not claiming that what they did was illegal. As I mentioned in my original post, I understand that I could have and should have asked for more details about exactly what they were testing, and lesson learned. However, I can guarantee that I did not sign anything that day authorizing any drug screen or any blood work at all(which I guess they don't need from a legal perspective).

Regardless of the legal status I do feel disrespected. As to the reasons I care, it is a matter of trust and consent. I don't want to feel like a suspect every time i seek medical care and even though I don't use drugs, I dislike the idea of women who do use drugs becoming targets by seeking care.

I am skeptical of the idea that making a fuss about this would "raise red flags" in the system but if it did, I would find that all the more reason to make a fuss. I think the practice is unethical and raising red flags over complaints about an unethical practice is even more unethical. In any case, I feel decently well placed to defend myself against any false suspicion, but of course I would rather not have to.

With all that said, I don't know if there is much I can do. I can complain to the various oversight boards and to Kaiser directly. I could also have a frank conversation with my doctor. I might try some subset of those options but I don't anticipate any progress.

Thank you all again for your feedback.

You didn't authorize ANY blood work at all but you... seem to have permitted them to stick the needle in your arm and draw blood...? What am I missing here? Also, it's simply not that big of a deal. As a PP said, this and STD panels are standard practice. The provider probably didn't put a spot light on it for you because it's entirely routine.

They should still review what they are testing for.

Seems pretty obvious you don’t work in healthcare. Do you know how long it would take with each patient to review each and every test you are going to perform? Doctors run late enough as it is. Add that into the mix and they’d never get anything done.

Then they should not be doctors.

You couldn’t handle it for 2 hours.
We’re all going our best. If you can do it better, then get your a$$ to med school and show the rest of us how it’s done.

It wouldn't be so hard if doctors themselves didn't lobby so aggressively to keep the number of doctors in short supply.

Right. Because that’s totes what’s stopping you.

You're a disgusting human being, I feel bad for your patients.

Don’t. I work in public health. They are so happy to have me. None of them are entitled a$$holes like the complainers on this thread. I don’t have to deal with their ridiculous whining. We have a great time.

You have no idea how much you disgust me. Doctors like you are the reason I probably will skip out on prenatal care next pregnancy.

Believe me - patients like you are no loss to us.

[Anonymous]

Anyone doing drugs while pregnant should be targets and go to jail for life. Testing is a great practice for society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone doing drugs while pregnant should be targets and go to jail for life. Testing is a great practice for society.

And doctors who aren’t following the standard of informed consent need to be reported to the state medical boards, which is also a great practice for society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a routine part of pregnancy testing. They do not treat women who come back positive as criminals.

This is absolutely false. They will call CPS

No, what you wrote is false.

You need to become familiar with the 2016 federal CARA Act and how it changed the requirement under CAPTA requiring health care providers to notify CPS if they are involved in the delivery and care of an infant born and identified as being affected by substance abuse or withdrawal symptoms resulting from prenatal substance exposure.

Under CARA, states are specifically enjoined not to take substance exposure in utero on its own as sufficient to make a report of abuse or neglect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s important medical information and should be routine. If a baby is going to go through withdrawal symptoms after delivery or there are medical complications associated with the drugs the providers need to know.

You think medical tests should be given without consent? Because I agree that this is useful medical information, but the point is that it is being collected in a dishonest and unethical way. If providers want to know, they should build trust that they won't go running to CPS and then actually ask the patient and then don't go running to CPS.

Otherwise, you have doctors intervening without patient consent and in addition to eroding trust in the medical system more generally, the result is that drug users will not seek prenatal care at all.

They don't. See above.