How do parents avoid raising entitled, self-absorbed adults?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading the Jobs and Careers forum when this question popped up:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1194239.page

TLDR: A 22 year-old girl from a wealthy family is bemoaning how "everyone in her life has abandoned her" because... She has the privilege of ending up with a Computer Science degree from an excellent college. But still, she can only focus on the negatives in her life and not the wonderful blessings she has!

My sister is like this; my mom calls her an "injustice collector" as she regularly comes to family gatherings and blathers on about how "abusive" my mom and dad were to her as a child (spoiler alert: there was no abuse at all). Because of her extreme sensitivity, inflexibility, selfishness, and lack of empathy, my sister has had a middling career and a divorce (with no kids).

How do I avoid raising such selfish, entitled kids? My parents mostly raised my sister and I the same way, and we ended up totally different. My biggest fear would be for my kids to end up as "injustice collectors" like my sister or the post in the Jobs Forum that I linked above.

Don’t force your kids to major in a subject they can’t stand.

This. Encourage your child in the direction of their interests and strengths. Pay attention to them enough to understand what those are.
Don't give them a lot of things, expect them to get a job at 16

[Anonymous]

Simple - don't behave like entitled, self-absorbed parents. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading the Jobs and Careers forum when this question popped up:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1194239.page

TLDR: A 22 year-old girl from a wealthy family is bemoaning how "everyone in her life has abandoned her" because... She has the privilege of ending up with a Computer Science degree from an excellent college. But still, she can only focus on the negatives in her life and not the wonderful blessings she has!

My sister is like this; my mom calls her an "injustice collector" as she regularly comes to family gatherings and blathers on about how "abusive" my mom and dad were to her as a child (spoiler alert: there was no abuse at all). Because of her extreme sensitivity, inflexibility, selfishness, and lack of empathy, my sister has had a middling career and a divorce (with no kids).

How do I avoid raising such selfish, entitled kids? My parents mostly raised my sister and I the same way, and we ended up totally different. My biggest fear would be for my kids to end up as "injustice collectors" like my sister or the post in the Jobs Forum that I linked above.

I think it's worth looking at what's making that poster unhappy. She's spent four years hopped up on drugs to earn a degree in a field she hates because her parents made her. She's got no friends, no hobbies, nothing she does to make her happy. I don't think her issue is that she's entitled, it's that her life is kind of miserable. You can't control your kid's life enough to make sure they don't end up feeling that way, but do what you can.

+1, there are a number of things about that OP's experience I have empathy for and are directly related to parental actions:

- Her parents moved across the country in the middle of her high school experience, destabilizing her social life right before she left for college. That's tough.

- Her parents pushed her into a major she has zero interest in based on earning potential, which both made her miserable during college and is setting her up to have zero enthusiasm for her career post college. She even has empathy for why her parents did this, understanding they fear her falling into the poverty they experienced as kids. But they were incorrect-- she would have been better off with a degree in a less lucrative but stable field she actually likes. This is someone who could be happy as a teacher, office administrator, medical technician, etc., all of which are stable, in demand careers her parents pushed her away from because they wanted her to be a "top earner."

- Her parents clearly don't know how to offer emotional support or encouragement, which is a major reason she comes off as whiny and engaged in a lot of black and white and catastrophic thinking. You can teach kids emotional resilience by showing them how to weather difficult feelings and experiences. But you have to show up for them and let them know they aren't totally alone in their bad feelings, and definitely don't pile on with judgment and reprobation ("you have no reason to be unhappy, you have a Computer Science degree from a great school and should just stop complaining and get a job"). Empathy and being people your kid can come to with even petty problems can give them the support they need to work through those issues and then be more resilient out in the world.

Also I think that PPs college experience regarding Covid must have really sucked and her ex-bf was really harsh during their break up, it is no wonder she's struggling.

Are we reading the same post? You seem deluded.

If you offer a kid (yes, maturity wise, she's a kid, not the 22 year old she actually is) as whiny as this "emotional support" or "encouragement," they will become even more self-pitying and won't do anything.

Initially, maybe. But that is because for 22 years she has gotten little true emotional support from her parents (who likely have childhood trauma from growing up in poverty that has stunted them emotionally). I do think she could eventually learn though. I grew up with similar parents and was very whiny at that age because I had so many unmet emotional needs and had absolutely no clue how to meet them myself, so I complained a lot. It's called "externalizing" because you lack the personal reserves to work through this stuff yourself.

But OP asked how they can avoid this in the first place, and that's much easier than addressing it at 22. If you are emotionally supportive of your kids starting when hey are very young, you can naturally teach them emotional resilience and skills for working through emotional challenges so that they never get to the point as adults where the only tool they have for dealing with frustration, confusion, anger, or ambivalence is to complain.

You start with little kids, allowing them to have feelings not shutting them down when the cry or get upset. You empathize with them, even with things that seem very small and unimportant to you, recognizing that to a 3 or 4 year old, it might feel like a very big thing. But you also stay calm when they get upset, so you are always modeling for them the idea that you can have big emotions, big reactions to things, but also you can stay clam and level headed and return to a place of practicality -- okay, how do we proceed? At first you have to teach them the tools for moving forward, for bringing rationality and productivity into problems so that you a solve them instead of wallowing in them. With time you let them do more of this themselves while you are just nearby, supporting and encouraging. Eventually you wind up with teens and young adults who can experience a set back like realizing they don't like their chosen profession, or feeling like Covid robbed them of a "normal" college experience, or feeling socially isolated and out of step with peers, and they can feel their justified anguish over these things, but also return to those skills of residence to work through them. Ideally also kids like this will be self-aware enough to avoid some of the worst mistakes, but people make mistakes and there are some things (like a global pandemic or your parents moving you across the country at the age of 16) that you might not have control over. People have to learn how to work through tough problems, but it's clear that this young woman's parents didn't do much to provide her with that education. You won't get it in school.

I think it might be the biggest legacy I leave my own kids. They are resilient, practical people who might complain now and then but know how to figure it out and push through to make better or different choices. They are also very self aware and will often check themselves when they get whiny or start spiraling and realize, eh, they are just hungry or need to get more sleep, and then can tackle the problem again later with a better attitude. I did not have those skills AT ALL at 22 but my kids already have them as teenagers. I think it makes a huge difference.

PP, you seem insufferable. You are definitely one of those annoying parents who believe in "gentle parenting" and validating your kids' emotions. Guess what? That shouldn't apply to posters like the one OP linked, or her sister, because these narcissists will just take, take, and take. If you give these children (and that's fundamentally what they are, kids, because regardless of their age they will never mature until they are invalidated) an inch, they WILL take a mile.

This is why basically every kid I knew growing up who had "gentle parents" who "validated their emotions" ended up being insufferable, self-indulgent young adults. Pushing past your kids' emotions to make them choose reasonable decisions (whether it's forcing themselves through a lucrative but boring major, which BTW, I'm sure this poster will thank her parents for in a couple of years) and DISREGARD their emotions is the most valuable gift you can give them as an adult.

I am glad that your kids have self awareness and are able to stop whining when they go down a negative spiral. But strict, tough-love parenting is the best way to produce such a result. Indulging in your kids' emotions is a one-way ticket to get them to navel-gaze and excessively ruminate on their emotions.

IME, this kind of parenting is a good way to produce compliant kids who follow all your rules until at some point they freak out, melt down, and spend the next 20 years in therapy trying to figure out why their parents hated them.

It is not the best way to develop independent, confident, resilient kids unless by "independent" you mean "doesn't really speak to me anymore, recently blocked me on Facebook for some reason."

But best of luck to you and your kids!

I’m a PP who argued for flexible parenting depending on the kind of kid you have. I think some kids thrive on tough-love, some will do better with emotion-focused gentle parenting, etc. You can get miserable kids through any parenting style depending on the personality and interests of the kid.

For example, the PP arguing that no one likes to be at the bottom of the pecking order/have money/etc. That attitude is alien to me — I don’t care or am proud of myself when I’m able to be happy on less money especially if it means I can save more so I’d be inclined to parent like the PP who feels like her son might be ungrateful. But the other PP who feels judged for being at the bottom of the pecking order has sympathy for the son and probably would do a better job parenting him through this issue because she gets it. I appreciate the perspectives shared because hopefully it’ll help me understand and sympathize with my kids (and be flexible) if they hit a point where they feel like I’m stingy.

PP here. There are countless studies done on it, it's not an attitude it's simply human nature.

We are at the top of the pecking order, statistically speaking, and yet i am careful not to put my children in a position where most of the kids they are surrounded by are 0.01%ers for example.

Okay but the financial pecking order is not the only one there is and different kids are sensitive to different pecking orders — which we should take into consideration as parents. I spent most of high school as a scholarship kid at a private school — all my friends were way richer than me. I never cared at all about the fact that they had designer clothes and I had hand me down JC Penny because what I cared about was being smart, and I knew from my grades and my scholarship that I was that. So it wouldn’t have occurred to me not to encourage one of my kids to apply for a similar scholarship should the opportunity present itself but this thread has made me reconsider that — if I have kids who judge their social capital by money or things tied to money (fashion, travel, certain sports, whatever that I can’t afford) I will probably encourage them to stay in public school where they’ll be happier for instance.

And to be clear, I’m not saying this to make teen me look good — I was an elitist little brat who judged people for their grammar and grades and the types of books they read and was no nicer than any 17yo who made someone feel small for not being able to afford the newest iPhone or whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Simple - don't behave like entitled, self-absorbed parents. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

I actually see the opposite more often than not: sweet giving parents sponsoring their adult child, and the selfish broke parents are entitled to their kids' money. Sometimes kids become the opposite of their parents, could be nature, could be by reaction to parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually don't know and struggle with this. Just has a huge talk with ds and dd just yesterday about money. I knew something was wrong, and finally got to the root of it: They think we are loaded and cheap, and ds especially is resentful, and jealous of his friends who get so much more. No amount of talking to him about how saving is important, talking about expenses in life like mortgage, emergency repair, a car breaking down, would convince him we are not in fact so loaded we should spend much more freely. He is very materialistic as well. We are not, I shop at Goodwill and TJ Maxx because that is what I like. He looks down on it. DD was entirely different in her approach and she got it. Her main concern is that she too can be too frugal and not spend her money. I went to bed thinking that dd was raised right, and ds wasn't. We're the same parents to both. I fear how he'll be as an adult.

Is he surrounded by people that either have more than you or spend a lot more than you? It's a tough situation for a kid to handle. He may be more sensitive than your daughter in picking up social cues and/or have a harder time dealing with big emotions.

I think we are making slightly more than a lot of people but also are younger and have different benefits so it’s hard to say. Our area is not ultra wealthy, homes all under 1 mil and that’s not ours which we paid half that for. Yes, I would say people spend more as a whole. He claims only his friends whose parents are much less well off have as little as he has, does not understand why we do not spend more. We do spend a lot to visit my family abroad and just has a ski trip this winter, mostly for his sake.

It's hard even for adults to cope with feeling like they are at the bottom of the social pecking order. Just look at this forum how many posts there are about comparing houses, vacations, cars, schools and feeling inadequate etc. In your son's case he feels like you are putting him at the bottom of the pecking order even though you have the means not to. I don't think you need to indulge him, but try to understand his feelings. At the end of the day he sees the majority of the adults that sorround him on a day to day basis approach money differently than you.

I personally don't find it hard at all because i like what I do have. I understand envy to some extent, but not to the extent of actually telling my parents I feel entitled to their money and they should spend more on me and I should spend my money differently and x and y way.

I'm guessing you're an adult. Sounds like PP's son is not.

Also, people have different priorities and values. And as much as we try as parents to convey our priorities and values to our kids, they are not us. They are different people with their own personalities, opinions, priorities, and values.

It can be hard when the "apple falls far from the tree" that way. When you feel good about your values, it can be upsetting if your kid does not share them. (Think Alex P. Keaton in Family Ties! LOL)

But the fact the PP's son has different priorities and values around money does not mean he's "wrong" or that his parents somehow messed up with him compared to his sister. Different doesn't have to equal wrong here.

All that said, he is not ENTITLED to change his parents' behavior to suit his values. It's kind that they compromised a bit by taking a ski trip he would enjoy, even if it's not what they would have done otherwise. But in general, he doesn't get to decide how his parents spend their money. Life doesn't work that way.

My advice to PP: Empathize with DS. "I know this is hard for you. You'd be doing this very differently if you were in charge of how we spend money. We get that and we're trying to take it into consideration. But DH/DW and I look at money and spending differently than you do. Neither way is right or wrong. It's just differently. So when you're out of college and on your own, you can totally however you want, to the extent you can afford it. I can totally picture that, actually! But for now, you're part of this family. And this is how we roll."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading the Jobs and Careers forum when this question popped up:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1194239.page

TLDR: A 22 year-old girl from a wealthy family is bemoaning how "everyone in her life has abandoned her" because... She has the privilege of ending up with a Computer Science degree from an excellent college. But still, she can only focus on the negatives in her life and not the wonderful blessings she has!

My sister is like this; my mom calls her an "injustice collector" as she regularly comes to family gatherings and blathers on about how "abusive" my mom and dad were to her as a child (spoiler alert: there was no abuse at all). Because of her extreme sensitivity, inflexibility, selfishness, and lack of empathy, my sister has had a middling career and a divorce (with no kids).

How do I avoid raising such selfish, entitled kids? My parents mostly raised my sister and I the same way, and we ended up totally different. My biggest fear would be for my kids to end up as "injustice collectors" like my sister or the post in the Jobs Forum that I linked above.

I think it's worth looking at what's making that poster unhappy. She's spent four years hopped up on drugs to earn a degree in a field she hates because her parents made her. She's got no friends, no hobbies, nothing she does to make her happy. I don't think her issue is that she's entitled, it's that her life is kind of miserable. You can't control your kid's life enough to make sure they don't end up feeling that way, but do what you can.

+1, there are a number of things about that OP's experience I have empathy for and are directly related to parental actions:

- Her parents moved across the country in the middle of her high school experience, destabilizing her social life right before she left for college. That's tough.

- Her parents pushed her into a major she has zero interest in based on earning potential, which both made her miserable during college and is setting her up to have zero enthusiasm for her career post college. She even has empathy for why her parents did this, understanding they fear her falling into the poverty they experienced as kids. But they were incorrect-- she would have been better off with a degree in a less lucrative but stable field she actually likes. This is someone who could be happy as a teacher, office administrator, medical technician, etc., all of which are stable, in demand careers her parents pushed her away from because they wanted her to be a "top earner."

- Her parents clearly don't know how to offer emotional support or encouragement, which is a major reason she comes off as whiny and engaged in a lot of black and white and catastrophic thinking. You can teach kids emotional resilience by showing them how to weather difficult feelings and experiences. But you have to show up for them and let them know they aren't totally alone in their bad feelings, and definitely don't pile on with judgment and reprobation ("you have no reason to be unhappy, you have a Computer Science degree from a great school and should just stop complaining and get a job"). Empathy and being people your kid can come to with even petty problems can give them the support they need to work through those issues and then be more resilient out in the world.

Also I think that PPs college experience regarding Covid must have really sucked and her ex-bf was really harsh during their break up, it is no wonder she's struggling.

Are we reading the same post? You seem deluded.

If you offer a kid (yes, maturity wise, she's a kid, not the 22 year old she actually is) as whiny as this "emotional support" or "encouragement," they will become even more self-pitying and won't do anything.

Initially, maybe. But that is because for 22 years she has gotten little true emotional support from her parents (who likely have childhood trauma from growing up in poverty that has stunted them emotionally). I do think she could eventually learn though. I grew up with similar parents and was very whiny at that age because I had so many unmet emotional needs and had absolutely no clue how to meet them myself, so I complained a lot. It's called "externalizing" because you lack the personal reserves to work through this stuff yourself.

But OP asked how they can avoid this in the first place, and that's much easier than addressing it at 22. If you are emotionally supportive of your kids starting when hey are very young, you can naturally teach them emotional resilience and skills for working through emotional challenges so that they never get to the point as adults where the only tool they have for dealing with frustration, confusion, anger, or ambivalence is to complain.

You start with little kids, allowing them to have feelings not shutting them down when the cry or get upset. You empathize with them, even with things that seem very small and unimportant to you, recognizing that to a 3 or 4 year old, it might feel like a very big thing. But you also stay calm when they get upset, so you are always modeling for them the idea that you can have big emotions, big reactions to things, but also you can stay clam and level headed and return to a place of practicality -- okay, how do we proceed? At first you have to teach them the tools for moving forward, for bringing rationality and productivity into problems so that you a solve them instead of wallowing in them. With time you let them do more of this themselves while you are just nearby, supporting and encouraging. Eventually you wind up with teens and young adults who can experience a set back like realizing they don't like their chosen profession, or feeling like Covid robbed them of a "normal" college experience, or feeling socially isolated and out of step with peers, and they can feel their justified anguish over these things, but also return to those skills of residence to work through them. Ideally also kids like this will be self-aware enough to avoid some of the worst mistakes, but people make mistakes and there are some things (like a global pandemic or your parents moving you across the country at the age of 16) that you might not have control over. People have to learn how to work through tough problems, but it's clear that this young woman's parents didn't do much to provide her with that education. You won't get it in school.

I think it might be the biggest legacy I leave my own kids. They are resilient, practical people who might complain now and then but know how to figure it out and push through to make better or different choices. They are also very self aware and will often check themselves when they get whiny or start spiraling and realize, eh, they are just hungry or need to get more sleep, and then can tackle the problem again later with a better attitude. I did not have those skills AT ALL at 22 but my kids already have them as teenagers. I think it makes a huge difference.

I'm a different PP (not the one you responded to), and I appreciate this more than you can know. Thank you so much for sharing in such detail.

Please keep weighing in on this thread and others. I come from the same starting point in life (similar childhood to the 22 yo poster) and am walking the same path as you as an adult. Therapy has helped me a lot over the years, and I'm very much working towards leaving leaving my kids with the same legacy you described. We do better when we know better. Thanks for being a bright light!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading the Jobs and Careers forum when this question popped up:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1194239.page

TLDR: A 22 year-old girl from a wealthy family is bemoaning how "everyone in her life has abandoned her" because... She has the privilege of ending up with a Computer Science degree from an excellent college. But still, she can only focus on the negatives in her life and not the wonderful blessings she has!

My sister is like this; my mom calls her an "injustice collector" as she regularly comes to family gatherings and blathers on about how "abusive" my mom and dad were to her as a child (spoiler alert: there was no abuse at all). Because of her extreme sensitivity, inflexibility, selfishness, and lack of empathy, my sister has had a middling career and a divorce (with no kids).

How do I avoid raising such selfish, entitled kids? My parents mostly raised my sister and I the same way, and we ended up totally different. My biggest fear would be for my kids to end up as "injustice collectors" like my sister or the post in the Jobs Forum that I linked above.

I think it's worth looking at what's making that poster unhappy. She's spent four years hopped up on drugs to earn a degree in a field she hates because her parents made her. She's got no friends, no hobbies, nothing she does to make her happy. I don't think her issue is that she's entitled, it's that her life is kind of miserable. You can't control your kid's life enough to make sure they don't end up feeling that way, but do what you can.

+1, there are a number of things about that OP's experience I have empathy for and are directly related to parental actions:

- Her parents moved across the country in the middle of her high school experience, destabilizing her social life right before she left for college. That's tough.

- Her parents pushed her into a major she has zero interest in based on earning potential, which both made her miserable during college and is setting her up to have zero enthusiasm for her career post college. She even has empathy for why her parents did this, understanding they fear her falling into the poverty they experienced as kids. But they were incorrect-- she would have been better off with a degree in a less lucrative but stable field she actually likes. This is someone who could be happy as a teacher, office administrator, medical technician, etc., all of which are stable, in demand careers her parents pushed her away from because they wanted her to be a "top earner."

- Her parents clearly don't know how to offer emotional support or encouragement, which is a major reason she comes off as whiny and engaged in a lot of black and white and catastrophic thinking. You can teach kids emotional resilience by showing them how to weather difficult feelings and experiences. But you have to show up for them and let them know they aren't totally alone in their bad feelings, and definitely don't pile on with judgment and reprobation ("you have no reason to be unhappy, you have a Computer Science degree from a great school and should just stop complaining and get a job"). Empathy and being people your kid can come to with even petty problems can give them the support they need to work through those issues and then be more resilient out in the world.

Also I think that PPs college experience regarding Covid must have really sucked and her ex-bf was really harsh during their break up, it is no wonder she's struggling.

Are we reading the same post? You seem deluded.

If you offer a kid (yes, maturity wise, she's a kid, not the 22 year old she actually is) as whiny as this "emotional support" or "encouragement," they will become even more self-pitying and won't do anything.

Initially, maybe. But that is because for 22 years she has gotten little true emotional support from her parents (who likely have childhood trauma from growing up in poverty that has stunted them emotionally). I do think she could eventually learn though. I grew up with similar parents and was very whiny at that age because I had so many unmet emotional needs and had absolutely no clue how to meet them myself, so I complained a lot. It's called "externalizing" because you lack the personal reserves to work through this stuff yourself.

But OP asked how they can avoid this in the first place, and that's much easier than addressing it at 22. If you are emotionally supportive of your kids starting when hey are very young, you can naturally teach them emotional resilience and skills for working through emotional challenges so that they never get to the point as adults where the only tool they have for dealing with frustration, confusion, anger, or ambivalence is to complain.

You start with little kids, allowing them to have feelings not shutting them down when the cry or get upset. You empathize with them, even with things that seem very small and unimportant to you, recognizing that to a 3 or 4 year old, it might feel like a very big thing. But you also stay calm when they get upset, so you are always modeling for them the idea that you can have big emotions, big reactions to things, but also you can stay clam and level headed and return to a place of practicality -- okay, how do we proceed? At first you have to teach them the tools for moving forward, for bringing rationality and productivity into problems so that you a solve them instead of wallowing in them. With time you let them do more of this themselves while you are just nearby, supporting and encouraging. Eventually you wind up with teens and young adults who can experience a set back like realizing they don't like their chosen profession, or feeling like Covid robbed them of a "normal" college experience, or feeling socially isolated and out of step with peers, and they can feel their justified anguish over these things, but also return to those skills of residence to work through them. Ideally also kids like this will be self-aware enough to avoid some of the worst mistakes, but people make mistakes and there are some things (like a global pandemic or your parents moving you across the country at the age of 16) that you might not have control over. People have to learn how to work through tough problems, but it's clear that this young woman's parents didn't do much to provide her with that education. You won't get it in school.

I think it might be the biggest legacy I leave my own kids. They are resilient, practical people who might complain now and then but know how to figure it out and push through to make better or different choices. They are also very self aware and will often check themselves when they get whiny or start spiraling and realize, eh, they are just hungry or need to get more sleep, and then can tackle the problem again later with a better attitude. I did not have those skills AT ALL at 22 but my kids already have them as teenagers. I think it makes a huge difference.

PP, you seem insufferable. You are definitely one of those annoying parents who believe in "gentle parenting" and validating your kids' emotions. Guess what? That shouldn't apply to posters like the one OP linked, or her sister, because these narcissists will just take, take, and take. If you give these children (and that's fundamentally what they are, kids, because regardless of their age they will never mature until they are invalidated) an inch, they WILL take a mile.

This is why basically every kid I knew growing up who had "gentle parents" who "validated their emotions" ended up being insufferable, self-indulgent young adults. Pushing past your kids' emotions to make them choose reasonable decisions (whether it's forcing themselves through a lucrative but boring major, which BTW, I'm sure this poster will thank her parents for in a couple of years) and DISREGARD their emotions is the most valuable gift you can give them as an adult.

I am glad that your kids have self awareness and are able to stop whining when they go down a negative spiral. But strict, tough-love parenting is the best way to produce such a result. Indulging in your kids' emotions is a one-way ticket to get them to navel-gaze and excessively ruminate on their emotions.

IME, this kind of parenting is a good way to produce compliant kids who follow all your rules until at some point they freak out, melt down, and spend the next 20 years in therapy trying to figure out why their parents hated them.

It is not the best way to develop independent, confident, resilient kids unless by "independent" you mean "doesn't really speak to me anymore, recently blocked me on Facebook for some reason."

But best of luck to you and your kids!

I’m a PP who argued for flexible parenting depending on the kind of kid you have. I think some kids thrive on tough-love, some will do better with emotion-focused gentle parenting, etc. You can get miserable kids through any parenting style depending on the personality and interests of the kid.

For example, the PP arguing that no one likes to be at the bottom of the pecking order/have money/etc. That attitude is alien to me — I don’t care or am proud of myself when I’m able to be happy on less money especially if it means I can save more so I’d be inclined to parent like the PP who feels like her son might be ungrateful. But the other PP who feels judged for being at the bottom of the pecking order has sympathy for the son and probably would do a better job parenting him through this issue because she gets it. I appreciate the perspectives shared because hopefully it’ll help me understand and sympathize with my kids (and be flexible) if they hit a point where they feel like I’m stingy.

PP here. There are countless studies done on it, it's not an attitude it's simply human nature.

We are at the top of the pecking order, statistically speaking, and yet i am careful not to put my children in a position where most of the kids they are surrounded by are 0.01%ers for example.

Okay but the financial pecking order is not the only one there is and different kids are sensitive to different pecking orders — which we should take into consideration as parents. I spent most of high school as a scholarship kid at a private school — all my friends were way richer than me. I never cared at all about the fact that they had designer clothes and I had hand me down JC Penny because what I cared about was being smart, and I knew from my grades and my scholarship that I was that. So it wouldn’t have occurred to me not to encourage one of my kids to apply for a similar scholarship should the opportunity present itself but this thread has made me reconsider that — if I have kids who judge their social capital by money or things tied to money (fashion, travel, certain sports, whatever that I can’t afford) I will probably encourage them to stay in public school where they’ll be happier for instance.

And to be clear, I’m not saying this to make teen me look good — I was an elitist little brat who judged people for their grammar and grades and the types of books they read and was no nicer than any 17yo who made someone feel small for not being able to afford the newest iPhone or whatever.

If you are beautiful or a super talented athlete or an academic superstar you carry a lot of social capitall, you are at the top of the heap in some form. Most kids, most people aren’t, they are average. They don’t want to stick out then as the poor kid, the unattractive kid, the dumb kid etc etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was reading the Jobs and Careers forum when this question popped up:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1194239.page

TLDR: A 22 year-old girl from a wealthy family is bemoaning how "everyone in her life has abandoned her" because... She has the privilege of ending up with a Computer Science degree from an excellent college. But still, she can only focus on the negatives in her life and not the wonderful blessings she has!

My sister is like this; my mom calls her an "injustice collector" as she regularly comes to family gatherings and blathers on about how "abusive" my mom and dad were to her as a child (spoiler alert: there was no abuse at all). Because of her extreme sensitivity, inflexibility, selfishness, and lack of empathy, my sister has had a middling career and a divorce (with no kids).

How do I avoid raising such selfish, entitled kids? My parents mostly raised my sister and I the same way, and we ended up totally different. My biggest fear would be for my kids to end up as "injustice collectors" like my sister or the post in the Jobs Forum that I linked above.

Best bet for you would be to divorce and give up custody before your child is exposed to you further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading the Jobs and Careers forum when this question popped up:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1194239.page

TLDR: A 22 year-old girl from a wealthy family is bemoaning how "everyone in her life has abandoned her" because... She has the privilege of ending up with a Computer Science degree from an excellent college. But still, she can only focus on the negatives in her life and not the wonderful blessings she has!

My sister is like this; my mom calls her an "injustice collector" as she regularly comes to family gatherings and blathers on about how "abusive" my mom and dad were to her as a child (spoiler alert: there was no abuse at all). Because of her extreme sensitivity, inflexibility, selfishness, and lack of empathy, my sister has had a middling career and a divorce (with no kids).

How do I avoid raising such selfish, entitled kids? My parents mostly raised my sister and I the same way, and we ended up totally different. My biggest fear would be for my kids to end up as "injustice collectors" like my sister or the post in the Jobs Forum that I linked above.

I think it's worth looking at what's making that poster unhappy. She's spent four years hopped up on drugs to earn a degree in a field she hates because her parents made her. She's got no friends, no hobbies, nothing she does to make her happy. I don't think her issue is that she's entitled, it's that her life is kind of miserable. You can't control your kid's life enough to make sure they don't end up feeling that way, but do what you can.

+1, there are a number of things about that OP's experience I have empathy for and are directly related to parental actions:

- Her parents moved across the country in the middle of her high school experience, destabilizing her social life right before she left for college. That's tough.

- Her parents pushed her into a major she has zero interest in based on earning potential, which both made her miserable during college and is setting her up to have zero enthusiasm for her career post college. She even has empathy for why her parents did this, understanding they fear her falling into the poverty they experienced as kids. But they were incorrect-- she would have been better off with a degree in a less lucrative but stable field she actually likes. This is someone who could be happy as a teacher, office administrator, medical technician, etc., all of which are stable, in demand careers her parents pushed her away from because they wanted her to be a "top earner."

- Her parents clearly don't know how to offer emotional support or encouragement, which is a major reason she comes off as whiny and engaged in a lot of black and white and catastrophic thinking. You can teach kids emotional resilience by showing them how to weather difficult feelings and experiences. But you have to show up for them and let them know they aren't totally alone in their bad feelings, and definitely don't pile on with judgment and reprobation ("you have no reason to be unhappy, you have a Computer Science degree from a great school and should just stop complaining and get a job"). Empathy and being people your kid can come to with even petty problems can give them the support they need to work through those issues and then be more resilient out in the world.

Also I think that PPs college experience regarding Covid must have really sucked and her ex-bf was really harsh during their break up, it is no wonder she's struggling.

Are we reading the same post? You seem deluded.

If you offer a kid (yes, maturity wise, she's a kid, not the 22 year old she actually is) as whiny as this "emotional support" or "encouragement," they will become even more self-pitying and won't do anything.

Initially, maybe. But that is because for 22 years she has gotten little true emotional support from her parents (who likely have childhood trauma from growing up in poverty that has stunted them emotionally). I do think she could eventually learn though. I grew up with similar parents and was very whiny at that age because I had so many unmet emotional needs and had absolutely no clue how to meet them myself, so I complained a lot. It's called "externalizing" because you lack the personal reserves to work through this stuff yourself.

But OP asked how they can avoid this in the first place, and that's much easier than addressing it at 22. If you are emotionally supportive of your kids starting when hey are very young, you can naturally teach them emotional resilience and skills for working through emotional challenges so that they never get to the point as adults where the only tool they have for dealing with frustration, confusion, anger, or ambivalence is to complain.

You start with little kids, allowing them to have feelings not shutting them down when the cry or get upset. You empathize with them, even with things that seem very small and unimportant to you, recognizing that to a 3 or 4 year old, it might feel like a very big thing. But you also stay calm when they get upset, so you are always modeling for them the idea that you can have big emotions, big reactions to things, but also you can stay clam and level headed and return to a place of practicality -- okay, how do we proceed? At first you have to teach them the tools for moving forward, for bringing rationality and productivity into problems so that you a solve them instead of wallowing in them. With time you let them do more of this themselves while you are just nearby, supporting and encouraging. Eventually you wind up with teens and young adults who can experience a set back like realizing they don't like their chosen profession, or feeling like Covid robbed them of a "normal" college experience, or feeling socially isolated and out of step with peers, and they can feel their justified anguish over these things, but also return to those skills of residence to work through them. Ideally also kids like this will be self-aware enough to avoid some of the worst mistakes, but people make mistakes and there are some things (like a global pandemic or your parents moving you across the country at the age of 16) that you might not have control over. People have to learn how to work through tough problems, but it's clear that this young woman's parents didn't do much to provide her with that education. You won't get it in school.

I think it might be the biggest legacy I leave my own kids. They are resilient, practical people who might complain now and then but know how to figure it out and push through to make better or different choices. They are also very self aware and will often check themselves when they get whiny or start spiraling and realize, eh, they are just hungry or need to get more sleep, and then can tackle the problem again later with a better attitude. I did not have those skills AT ALL at 22 but my kids already have them as teenagers. I think it makes a huge difference.

Pretty much all of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading the Jobs and Careers forum when this question popped up:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1194239.page

TLDR: A 22 year-old girl from a wealthy family is bemoaning how "everyone in her life has abandoned her" because... She has the privilege of ending up with a Computer Science degree from an excellent college. But still, she can only focus on the negatives in her life and not the wonderful blessings she has!

My sister is like this; my mom calls her an "injustice collector" as she regularly comes to family gatherings and blathers on about how "abusive" my mom and dad were to her as a child (spoiler alert: there was no abuse at all). Because of her extreme sensitivity, inflexibility, selfishness, and lack of empathy, my sister has had a middling career and a divorce (with no kids).

How do I avoid raising such selfish, entitled kids? My parents mostly raised my sister and I the same way, and we ended up totally different. My biggest fear would be for my kids to end up as "injustice collectors" like my sister or the post in the Jobs Forum that I linked above.

I think it's worth looking at what's making that poster unhappy. She's spent four years hopped up on drugs to earn a degree in a field she hates because her parents made her. She's got no friends, no hobbies, nothing she does to make her happy. I don't think her issue is that she's entitled, it's that her life is kind of miserable. You can't control your kid's life enough to make sure they don't end up feeling that way, but do what you can.

+1, there are a number of things about that OP's experience I have empathy for and are directly related to parental actions:

- Her parents moved across the country in the middle of her high school experience, destabilizing her social life right before she left for college. That's tough.

- Her parents pushed her into a major she has zero interest in based on earning potential, which both made her miserable during college and is setting her up to have zero enthusiasm for her career post college. She even has empathy for why her parents did this, understanding they fear her falling into the poverty they experienced as kids. But they were incorrect-- she would have been better off with a degree in a less lucrative but stable field she actually likes. This is someone who could be happy as a teacher, office administrator, medical technician, etc., all of which are stable, in demand careers her parents pushed her away from because they wanted her to be a "top earner."

- Her parents clearly don't know how to offer emotional support or encouragement, which is a major reason she comes off as whiny and engaged in a lot of black and white and catastrophic thinking. You can teach kids emotional resilience by showing them how to weather difficult feelings and experiences. But you have to show up for them and let them know they aren't totally alone in their bad feelings, and definitely don't pile on with judgment and reprobation ("you have no reason to be unhappy, you have a Computer Science degree from a great school and should just stop complaining and get a job"). Empathy and being people your kid can come to with even petty problems can give them the support they need to work through those issues and then be more resilient out in the world.

Also I think that PPs college experience regarding Covid must have really sucked and her ex-bf was really harsh during their break up, it is no wonder she's struggling.

Are we reading the same post? You seem deluded.

If you offer a kid (yes, maturity wise, she's a kid, not the 22 year old she actually is) as whiny as this "emotional support" or "encouragement," they will become even more self-pitying and won't do anything.

Initially, maybe. But that is because for 22 years she has gotten little true emotional support from her parents (who likely have childhood trauma from growing up in poverty that has stunted them emotionally). I do think she could eventually learn though. I grew up with similar parents and was very whiny at that age because I had so many unmet emotional needs and had absolutely no clue how to meet them myself, so I complained a lot. It's called "externalizing" because you lack the personal reserves to work through this stuff yourself.

But OP asked how they can avoid this in the first place, and that's much easier than addressing it at 22. If you are emotionally supportive of your kids starting when hey are very young, you can naturally teach them emotional resilience and skills for working through emotional challenges so that they never get to the point as adults where the only tool they have for dealing with frustration, confusion, anger, or ambivalence is to complain.

You start with little kids, allowing them to have feelings not shutting them down when the cry or get upset. You empathize with them, even with things that seem very small and unimportant to you, recognizing that to a 3 or 4 year old, it might feel like a very big thing. But you also stay calm when they get upset, so you are always modeling for them the idea that you can have big emotions, big reactions to things, but also you can stay clam and level headed and return to a place of practicality -- okay, how do we proceed? At first you have to teach them the tools for moving forward, for bringing rationality and productivity into problems so that you a solve them instead of wallowing in them. With time you let them do more of this themselves while you are just nearby, supporting and encouraging. Eventually you wind up with teens and young adults who can experience a set back like realizing they don't like their chosen profession, or feeling like Covid robbed them of a "normal" college experience, or feeling socially isolated and out of step with peers, and they can feel their justified anguish over these things, but also return to those skills of residence to work through them. Ideally also kids like this will be self-aware enough to avoid some of the worst mistakes, but people make mistakes and there are some things (like a global pandemic or your parents moving you across the country at the age of 16) that you might not have control over. People have to learn how to work through tough problems, but it's clear that this young woman's parents didn't do much to provide her with that education. You won't get it in school.

I think it might be the biggest legacy I leave my own kids. They are resilient, practical people who might complain now and then but know how to figure it out and push through to make better or different choices. They are also very self aware and will often check themselves when they get whiny or start spiraling and realize, eh, they are just hungry or need to get more sleep, and then can tackle the problem again later with a better attitude. I did not have those skills AT ALL at 22 but my kids already have them as teenagers. I think it makes a huge difference.

PP, you seem insufferable. You are definitely one of those annoying parents who believe in "gentle parenting" and validating your kids' emotions. Guess what? That shouldn't apply to posters like the one OP linked, or her sister, because these narcissists will just take, take, and take. If you give these children (and that's fundamentally what they are, kids, because regardless of their age they will never mature until they are invalidated) an inch, they WILL take a mile.

This is why basically every kid I knew growing up who had "gentle parents" who "validated their emotions" ended up being insufferable, self-indulgent young adults. Pushing past your kids' emotions to make them choose reasonable decisions (whether it's forcing themselves through a lucrative but boring major, which BTW, I'm sure this poster will thank her parents for in a couple of years) and DISREGARD their emotions is the most valuable gift you can give them as an adult.

I am glad that your kids have self awareness and are able to stop whining when they go down a negative spiral. But strict, tough-love parenting is the best way to produce such a result. Indulging in your kids' emotions is a one-way ticket to get them to navel-gaze and excessively ruminate on their emotions.

You sound harsh, PP. Did you experience "tough" love growing up?

I actually think the poster you responded to is correct. Her children will likely be stable adults who contribute to their work, family, neighborhoods, etc., without creating unnecessary drama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading the Jobs and Careers forum when this question popped up:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1194239.page

TLDR: A 22 year-old girl from a wealthy family is bemoaning how "everyone in her life has abandoned her" because... She has the privilege of ending up with a Computer Science degree from an excellent college. But still, she can only focus on the negatives in her life and not the wonderful blessings she has!

My sister is like this; my mom calls her an "injustice collector" as she regularly comes to family gatherings and blathers on about how "abusive" my mom and dad were to her as a child (spoiler alert: there was no abuse at all). Because of her extreme sensitivity, inflexibility, selfishness, and lack of empathy, my sister has had a middling career and a divorce (with no kids).

How do I avoid raising such selfish, entitled kids? My parents mostly raised my sister and I the same way, and we ended up totally different. My biggest fear would be for my kids to end up as "injustice collectors" like my sister or the post in the Jobs Forum that I linked above.

I think it's worth looking at what's making that poster unhappy. She's spent four years hopped up on drugs to earn a degree in a field she hates because her parents made her. She's got no friends, no hobbies, nothing she does to make her happy. I don't think her issue is that she's entitled, it's that her life is kind of miserable. You can't control your kid's life enough to make sure they don't end up feeling that way, but do what you can.

+1, there are a number of things about that OP's experience I have empathy for and are directly related to parental actions:

- Her parents moved across the country in the middle of her high school experience, destabilizing her social life right before she left for college. That's tough.

- Her parents pushed her into a major she has zero interest in based on earning potential, which both made her miserable during college and is setting her up to have zero enthusiasm for her career post college. She even has empathy for why her parents did this, understanding they fear her falling into the poverty they experienced as kids. But they were incorrect-- she would have been better off with a degree in a less lucrative but stable field she actually likes. This is someone who could be happy as a teacher, office administrator, medical technician, etc., all of which are stable, in demand careers her parents pushed her away from because they wanted her to be a "top earner."

- Her parents clearly don't know how to offer emotional support or encouragement, which is a major reason she comes off as whiny and engaged in a lot of black and white and catastrophic thinking. You can teach kids emotional resilience by showing them how to weather difficult feelings and experiences. But you have to show up for them and let them know they aren't totally alone in their bad feelings, and definitely don't pile on with judgment and reprobation ("you have no reason to be unhappy, you have a Computer Science degree from a great school and should just stop complaining and get a job"). Empathy and being people your kid can come to with even petty problems can give them the support they need to work through those issues and then be more resilient out in the world.

Also I think that PPs college experience regarding Covid must have really sucked and her ex-bf was really harsh during their break up, it is no wonder she's struggling.

Are we reading the same post? You seem deluded.

If you offer a kid (yes, maturity wise, she's a kid, not the 22 year old she actually is) as whiny as this "emotional support" or "encouragement," they will become even more self-pitying and won't do anything.

Initially, maybe. But that is because for 22 years she has gotten little true emotional support from her parents (who likely have childhood trauma from growing up in poverty that has stunted them emotionally). I do think she could eventually learn though. I grew up with similar parents and was very whiny at that age because I had so many unmet emotional needs and had absolutely no clue how to meet them myself, so I complained a lot. It's called "externalizing" because you lack the personal reserves to work through this stuff yourself.

But OP asked how they can avoid this in the first place, and that's much easier than addressing it at 22. If you are emotionally supportive of your kids starting when hey are very young, you can naturally teach them emotional resilience and skills for working through emotional challenges so that they never get to the point as adults where the only tool they have for dealing with frustration, confusion, anger, or ambivalence is to complain.

You start with little kids, allowing them to have feelings not shutting them down when the cry or get upset. You empathize with them, even with things that seem very small and unimportant to you, recognizing that to a 3 or 4 year old, it might feel like a very big thing. But you also stay calm when they get upset, so you are always modeling for them the idea that you can have big emotions, big reactions to things, but also you can stay clam and level headed and return to a place of practicality -- okay, how do we proceed? At first you have to teach them the tools for moving forward, for bringing rationality and productivity into problems so that you a solve them instead of wallowing in them. With time you let them do more of this themselves while you are just nearby, supporting and encouraging. Eventually you wind up with teens and young adults who can experience a set back like realizing they don't like their chosen profession, or feeling like Covid robbed them of a "normal" college experience, or feeling socially isolated and out of step with peers, and they can feel their justified anguish over these things, but also return to those skills of residence to work through them. Ideally also kids like this will be self-aware enough to avoid some of the worst mistakes, but people make mistakes and there are some things (like a global pandemic or your parents moving you across the country at the age of 16) that you might not have control over. People have to learn how to work through tough problems, but it's clear that this young woman's parents didn't do much to provide her with that education. You won't get it in school.

I think it might be the biggest legacy I leave my own kids. They are resilient, practical people who might complain now and then but know how to figure it out and push through to make better or different choices. They are also very self aware and will often check themselves when they get whiny or start spiraling and realize, eh, they are just hungry or need to get more sleep, and then can tackle the problem again later with a better attitude. I did not have those skills AT ALL at 22 but my kids already have them as teenagers. I think it makes a huge difference.

PP, you seem insufferable. You are definitely one of those annoying parents who believe in "gentle parenting" and validating your kids' emotions. Guess what? That shouldn't apply to posters like the one OP linked, or her sister, because these narcissists will just take, take, and take. If you give these children (and that's fundamentally what they are, kids, because regardless of their age they will never mature until they are invalidated) an inch, they WILL take a mile.

This is why basically every kid I knew growing up who had "gentle parents" who "validated their emotions" ended up being insufferable, self-indulgent young adults. Pushing past your kids' emotions to make them choose reasonable decisions (whether it's forcing themselves through a lucrative but boring major, which BTW, I'm sure this poster will thank her parents for in a couple of years) and DISREGARD their emotions is the most valuable gift you can give them as an adult.

I am glad that your kids have self awareness and are able to stop whining when they go down a negative spiral. But strict, tough-love parenting is the best way to produce such a result. Indulging in your kids' emotions is a one-way ticket to get them to navel-gaze and excessively ruminate on their emotions.

You sound harsh, PP. Did you experience "tough" love growing up?

I actually think the poster you responded to is correct. Her children will likely be stable adults who contribute to their work, family, neighborhoods, etc., without creating unnecessary drama.

I did experience tough love growing up -- I was raised by poor Asian immigrant parents in SF's Chinatown. No one "validated my feelings" growing up, and the same was true for my older sister and most of my childhood friends.

Guess what? We are ALL doing well professionally and personally now, except for ~10% of kids who were exceptionally sensitive and self-absorbed even as kids. The rapid economic success of first-gen immigrants (not just Asian, but also Nigerian and Cuban) show that being an indulgent American who uses "gentle parenting" to "validate their kids' emotions" does NOT lead to successful, well-adjusted kids. It just leads to narcissism and excessive navel-gazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading the Jobs and Careers forum when this question popped up:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1194239.page

TLDR: A 22 year-old girl from a wealthy family is bemoaning how "everyone in her life has abandoned her" because... She has the privilege of ending up with a Computer Science degree from an excellent college. But still, she can only focus on the negatives in her life and not the wonderful blessings she has!

My sister is like this; my mom calls her an "injustice collector" as she regularly comes to family gatherings and blathers on about how "abusive" my mom and dad were to her as a child (spoiler alert: there was no abuse at all). Because of her extreme sensitivity, inflexibility, selfishness, and lack of empathy, my sister has had a middling career and a divorce (with no kids).

How do I avoid raising such selfish, entitled kids? My parents mostly raised my sister and I the same way, and we ended up totally different. My biggest fear would be for my kids to end up as "injustice collectors" like my sister or the post in the Jobs Forum that I linked above.

I think it's worth looking at what's making that poster unhappy. She's spent four years hopped up on drugs to earn a degree in a field she hates because her parents made her. She's got no friends, no hobbies, nothing she does to make her happy. I don't think her issue is that she's entitled, it's that her life is kind of miserable. You can't control your kid's life enough to make sure they don't end up feeling that way, but do what you can.

+1, there are a number of things about that OP's experience I have empathy for and are directly related to parental actions:

- Her parents moved across the country in the middle of her high school experience, destabilizing her social life right before she left for college. That's tough.

- Her parents pushed her into a major she has zero interest in based on earning potential, which both made her miserable during college and is setting her up to have zero enthusiasm for her career post college. She even has empathy for why her parents did this, understanding they fear her falling into the poverty they experienced as kids. But they were incorrect-- she would have been better off with a degree in a less lucrative but stable field she actually likes. This is someone who could be happy as a teacher, office administrator, medical technician, etc., all of which are stable, in demand careers her parents pushed her away from because they wanted her to be a "top earner."

- Her parents clearly don't know how to offer emotional support or encouragement, which is a major reason she comes off as whiny and engaged in a lot of black and white and catastrophic thinking. You can teach kids emotional resilience by showing them how to weather difficult feelings and experiences. But you have to show up for them and let them know they aren't totally alone in their bad feelings, and definitely don't pile on with judgment and reprobation ("you have no reason to be unhappy, you have a Computer Science degree from a great school and should just stop complaining and get a job"). Empathy and being people your kid can come to with even petty problems can give them the support they need to work through those issues and then be more resilient out in the world.

Also I think that PPs college experience regarding Covid must have really sucked and her ex-bf was really harsh during their break up, it is no wonder she's struggling.

Are we reading the same post? You seem deluded.

If you offer a kid (yes, maturity wise, she's a kid, not the 22 year old she actually is) as whiny as this "emotional support" or "encouragement," they will become even more self-pitying and won't do anything.

Initially, maybe. But that is because for 22 years she has gotten little true emotional support from her parents (who likely have childhood trauma from growing up in poverty that has stunted them emotionally). I do think she could eventually learn though. I grew up with similar parents and was very whiny at that age because I had so many unmet emotional needs and had absolutely no clue how to meet them myself, so I complained a lot. It's called "externalizing" because you lack the personal reserves to work through this stuff yourself.

But OP asked how they can avoid this in the first place, and that's much easier than addressing it at 22. If you are emotionally supportive of your kids starting when hey are very young, you can naturally teach them emotional resilience and skills for working through emotional challenges so that they never get to the point as adults where the only tool they have for dealing with frustration, confusion, anger, or ambivalence is to complain.

You start with little kids, allowing them to have feelings not shutting them down when the cry or get upset. You empathize with them, even with things that seem very small and unimportant to you, recognizing that to a 3 or 4 year old, it might feel like a very big thing. But you also stay calm when they get upset, so you are always modeling for them the idea that you can have big emotions, big reactions to things, but also you can stay clam and level headed and return to a place of practicality -- okay, how do we proceed? At first you have to teach them the tools for moving forward, for bringing rationality and productivity into problems so that you a solve them instead of wallowing in them. With time you let them do more of this themselves while you are just nearby, supporting and encouraging. Eventually you wind up with teens and young adults who can experience a set back like realizing they don't like their chosen profession, or feeling like Covid robbed them of a "normal" college experience, or feeling socially isolated and out of step with peers, and they can feel their justified anguish over these things, but also return to those skills of residence to work through them. Ideally also kids like this will be self-aware enough to avoid some of the worst mistakes, but people make mistakes and there are some things (like a global pandemic or your parents moving you across the country at the age of 16) that you might not have control over. People have to learn how to work through tough problems, but it's clear that this young woman's parents didn't do much to provide her with that education. You won't get it in school.

I think it might be the biggest legacy I leave my own kids. They are resilient, practical people who might complain now and then but know how to figure it out and push through to make better or different choices. They are also very self aware and will often check themselves when they get whiny or start spiraling and realize, eh, they are just hungry or need to get more sleep, and then can tackle the problem again later with a better attitude. I did not have those skills AT ALL at 22 but my kids already have them as teenagers. I think it makes a huge difference.

PP, you seem insufferable. You are definitely one of those annoying parents who believe in "gentle parenting" and validating your kids' emotions. Guess what? That shouldn't apply to posters like the one OP linked, or her sister, because these narcissists will just take, take, and take. If you give these children (and that's fundamentally what they are, kids, because regardless of their age they will never mature until they are invalidated) an inch, they WILL take a mile.

This is why basically every kid I knew growing up who had "gentle parents" who "validated their emotions" ended up being insufferable, self-indulgent young adults. Pushing past your kids' emotions to make them choose reasonable decisions (whether it's forcing themselves through a lucrative but boring major, which BTW, I'm sure this poster will thank her parents for in a couple of years) and DISREGARD their emotions is the most valuable gift you can give them as an adult.

I am glad that your kids have self awareness and are able to stop whining when they go down a negative spiral. But strict, tough-love parenting is the best way to produce such a result. Indulging in your kids' emotions is a one-way ticket to get them to navel-gaze and excessively ruminate on their emotions.

You sound harsh, PP. Did you experience "tough" love growing up?

I actually think the poster you responded to is correct. Her children will likely be stable adults who contribute to their work, family, neighborhoods, etc., without creating unnecessary drama.

I did experience tough love growing up -- I was raised by poor Asian immigrant parents in SF's Chinatown. No one "validated my feelings" growing up, and the same was true for my older sister and most of my childhood friends.

Guess what? We are ALL doing well professionally and personally now, except for ~10% of kids who were exceptionally sensitive and self-absorbed even as kids. The rapid economic success of first-gen immigrants (not just Asian, but also Nigerian and Cuban) show that being an indulgent American who uses "gentle parenting" to "validate their kids' emotions" does NOT lead to successful, well-adjusted kids. It just leads to narcissism and excessive navel-gazing.

You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder. You also sound like you have nothing but disdain for Americans, which is odd considering 1) your parents sacrificed a lot to come here, and 2) you're an American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was reading the Jobs and Careers forum when this question popped up:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1194239.page

TLDR: A 22 year-old girl from a wealthy family is bemoaning how "everyone in her life has abandoned her" because... She has the privilege of ending up with a Computer Science degree from an excellent college. But still, she can only focus on the negatives in her life and not the wonderful blessings she has!

My sister is like this; my mom calls her an "injustice collector" as she regularly comes to family gatherings and blathers on about how "abusive" my mom and dad were to her as a child (spoiler alert: there was no abuse at all). Because of her extreme sensitivity, inflexibility, selfishness, and lack of empathy, my sister has had a middling career and a divorce (with no kids).

How do I avoid raising such selfish, entitled kids? My parents mostly raised my sister and I the same way, and we ended up totally different. My biggest fear would be for my kids to end up as "injustice collectors" like my sister or the post in the Jobs Forum that I linked above.

i have read zero responses to your initial q but I feel bad for your kids.
This person clearly states she has been dx with borderline personality disorder. So she is not just 'entitled' she has mental health issues that may be lifelong. Despite that, she is clearly trying to sort her life out despite battling depression and probably anxiety. She needs to do some intensive therapy and to have parents who take a long hard look with her at who she is and what she can achieve and help her find something more suited to her. Despite all her issues she sucked it up and kept going.
you sound like you belong in the boomer generation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading the Jobs and Careers forum when this question popped up:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1194239.page

TLDR: A 22 year-old girl from a wealthy family is bemoaning how "everyone in her life has abandoned her" because... She has the privilege of ending up with a Computer Science degree from an excellent college. But still, she can only focus on the negatives in her life and not the wonderful blessings she has!

My sister is like this; my mom calls her an "injustice collector" as she regularly comes to family gatherings and blathers on about how "abusive" my mom and dad were to her as a child (spoiler alert: there was no abuse at all). Because of her extreme sensitivity, inflexibility, selfishness, and lack of empathy, my sister has had a middling career and a divorce (with no kids).

How do I avoid raising such selfish, entitled kids? My parents mostly raised my sister and I the same way, and we ended up totally different. My biggest fear would be for my kids to end up as "injustice collectors" like my sister or the post in the Jobs Forum that I linked above.

i have read zero responses to your initial q but I feel bad for your kids.
This person clearly states she has been dx with borderline personality disorder. So she is not just 'entitled' she has mental health issues that may be lifelong. Despite that, she is clearly trying to sort her life out despite battling depression and probably anxiety. She needs to do some intensive therapy and to have parents who take a long hard look with her at who she is and what she can achieve and help her find something more suited to her. Despite all her issues she sucked it up and kept going.
you sound like you belong in the boomer generation.

Agreed, I don't really get the negative response to that OP. I mean, it's a long post and there is a lot of navel gazing but that's not unusual for that specific age and it's not like anyone is required to read it. I have a lot of empathy for her and actually think she displayed a decent amount of empathy for her parents and self awareness in her post.

Also, externally, the people in this thread and the other one would probably not find her entitled or self-absorbed if they met her in person. They'd be wowed by her academic accomplishments and assume she had everything all together and had life figured out. They'd dismiss anything negative she said as just nerves or youth and assume she didn't have any *real* problems. Just like her parents have already told her.

Which brings me to another observation -- I think sometimes parents get angry when their kids graduate from college and flounder because they view it as ingratitude for the "gift" of the college education. But while college is of course a great opportunity, parents can very easily turn it from a gift to an obligation, and then expectation that your child will be grateful for this obligation is weird -- no one is grateful for obligation. In this case, the parents essentially forced this girl to pursue a highly competitive and academically demanding area of study that she had zero interest in, for no other reason than because they believe it will be lucrative. They want her to be grateful to them for forcing her to work very hard at something she hates in the hopes of then getting to continue working hard at something she hates so that she can make a lot of money. And now if she doesn't make a lot of money, they will blame it entirely on her even though she's the one who has been working at THEIR dream for all these years. Of course she's ungrateful! It wasn't a gift! It was a weighty obligation that robbed her of an opportunity to actually find a career that made sense for her. I'd be ungrateful too.

[Anonymous]

Read to your children every night.