I haven't figured out how people raise children in DC

[Anonymous]

There's no question that D.C. has priced modest earning parents out of a decent quality of life. There really isn't any way to have a short commute, reasonable hours, and good schools, unless you're incredibly lucky or bought into the market prior to 2000. Most of the people here who live in the really upscale neighborhoods are incredibly stuck-up--you have to make $300k / year minimum to even play, and the poster was right, people do equate their salary with their worth. There are a lot of stuck-up DBs here, but I think no more than in NYC, Philly, Boston, San Fran, or any of the big creative centers. Still, there are some great pockets of relatively normal people inside the beltway, but fewer than there used to be even 15 years ago when we arrived. For example, Glover Park, where we had our first house, has gone from $300-ish 3 BR townhouses to $600 or $700--ish. There are still some truly middle class people there, but they're evaporating as they sell looking for better public schools. These things being said, I believe D.C. is no different from the other "creative center" cities. It's pretty damn Darwinian, but it has huge benefits if you can stomach it. The people are all generally very smart, and I think that having access to such an amazing labor pool raises everyone's game. The suburban schools (Fairfax and MoCo) are outstanding. Public transportation is great. The airports for those who travel a lot for work are diverse and keep fares down and have tons of non-stops. So, all-in-all, D.C. is a lifestyle choice like any other. It has pros and cons, but I think the tradeoffs are pretty fair.

[Anonymous]

The only people priced out are people under 35. Many people over 35 did in fact buy in the DC area prior to 2000.

[Anonymous]

"There really isn't any way to have a short commute, reasonable hours, and good schools, unless you're incredibly lucky or bought into the market prior to 2000. "

I disagree. We make $360k (not including rental property income) and live in Ft. Washington, MD. I commute to Fairfax and my husband commutes to Reston....we both can get to work later in the morning so our commutes are about an hour. We both work from home sometimes. I consider an hour or less around here a decent commute....it can take that long to get from one side of DC to the other. We both chose jobs/employers that offer flexibility...one of us is an inhouse lawyer. We have family who live in DC, PG and MoCo and also had some family move here to be closer to us and the baby. That helps us with the childcare costs. We are in a large SFH on 3 acres that we got for $350k in 2002 and we built a small second home on the property for the main family member that helps with childcare. Actually now is a better time to buy over here than pre-2000 due to all the foreclosures. We have been considering relocating to our dream of waterfront property over here at today's prices...the most affordable waterfront property in this area.
We are in a good middle class neighborhood with crime that is no worse than the stats reported across the bridge in Del Ray and Old Town. We do have a public French immersion school nearby however if we don't win that lottery, we can certainly afford private schools which can range from $8k to $12k for nearby schools or we can drop the $25k+ to go to the ones in Alexandria or DC since we are saving on childcare and housing costs. Frankly with budget cuts and the way school boundaries change and NCLB, I don't feel a ton of comfort with public school even if I was in an awesome school district. Most of my colleagues live in the most desired districts and still send their kids private.
It can suck to not live near lots of high end shopping and dining but that can also be a good thing because that is more money we are not tempted to spend weekly. Though we do work in more expensive parts of the area so when we need things that may not be sold over here we just buy it on our way home or at lunch (or just buy it online with free shipping and no we have never had a package stolen off of our porch).
That is tolerable since shopping and dining within my zipcode are not crucial to living the way we want to live, what is more annoying is dealing with the negative perception about where you live that others who have never been over here have.
It is doable to live well here and not be stressed out over money, but you have to be more openminded about where and how to live and I find most are not.
We toy with moving sometimes (within the metro area) as we can afford to now (when we first moved over here we made much less than what we do now and we had more debt than we have now). When we think about the tradeoffs, many just do not seem worth giving up much of the financial freedom and easy living that we have now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"There really isn't any way to have a short commute, reasonable hours, and good schools, unless you're incredibly lucky or bought into the market prior to 2000. "

I disagree. We make $360k (not including rental property income) and live in Ft. Washington, MD. I commute to Fairfax and my husband commutes to Reston....we both can get to work later in the morning so our commutes are about an hour. We both work from home sometimes. I consider an hour or less around here a decent commute....it can take that long to get from one side of DC to the other. We both chose jobs/employers that offer flexibility...one of us is an inhouse lawyer. We have family who live in DC, PG and MoCo and also had some family move here to be closer to us and the baby. That helps us with the childcare costs. We are in a large SFH on 3 acres that we got for $350k in 2002 and we built a small second home on the property for the main family member that helps with childcare. Actually now is a better time to buy over here than pre-2000 due to all the foreclosures. We have been considering relocating to our dream of waterfront property over here at today's prices...the most affordable waterfront property in this area.
We are in a good middle class neighborhood with crime that is no worse than the stats reported across the bridge in Del Ray and Old Town. We do have a public French immersion school nearby however if we don't win that lottery, we can certainly afford private schools which can range from $8k to $12k for nearby schools or we can drop the $25k+ to go to the ones in Alexandria or DC since we are saving on childcare and housing costs. Frankly with budget cuts and the way school boundaries change and NCLB, I don't feel a ton of comfort with public school even if I was in an awesome school district. Most of my colleagues live in the most desired districts and still send their kids private.
It can suck to not live near lots of high end shopping and dining but that can also be a good thing because that is more money we are not tempted to spend weekly. Though we do work in more expensive parts of the area so when we need things that may not be sold over here we just buy it on our way home or at lunch (or just buy it online with free shipping and no we have never had a package stolen off of our porch).
That is tolerable since shopping and dining within my zipcode are not crucial to living the way we want to live, what is more annoying is dealing with the negative perception about where you live that others who have never been over here have.
It is doable to live well here and not be stressed out over money, but you have to be more openminded about where and how to live and I find most are not.
We toy with moving sometimes (within the metro area) as we can afford to now (when we first moved over here we made much less than what we do now and we had more debt than we have now). When we think about the tradeoffs, many just do not seem worth giving up much of the financial freedom and easy living that we have now.

Thanks for the story, but what does this add to the discussion? You make over $350K, bought in 2002, and you don't even live in the city. I am happy you find your life to be tolerable, but I don't understand the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"There really isn't any way to have a short commute, reasonable hours, and good schools, unless you're incredibly lucky or bought into the market prior to 2000. "

I disagree. We make $360k (not including rental property income) and live in Ft. Washington, MD. I commute to Fairfax and my husband commutes to Reston....we both can get to work later in the morning so our commutes are about an hour. We both work from home sometimes. I consider an hour or less around here a decent commute....it can take that long to get from one side of DC to the other. ...

Thanks for the story, but what does this add to the discussion? You make over $350K, bought in 2002, and you don't even live in the city. I am happy you find your life to be tolerable, but I don't understand the point.

Apologies, I thought it was about the DC metro area in general and the high cost of living here in general.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"There really isn't any way to have a short commute, reasonable hours, and good schools, unless you're incredibly lucky or bought into the market prior to 2000. "

I disagree. We make $360k (not including rental property income) and live in Ft. Washington, MD. I commute to Fairfax and my husband commutes to Reston....we both can get to work later in the morning so our commutes are about an hour. We both work from home sometimes. I consider an hour or less around here a decent commute....it can take that long to get from one side of DC to the other. ...

Thanks for the story, but what does this add to the discussion? You make over $350K, bought in 2002, and you don't even live in the city. I am happy you find your life to be tolerable, but I don't understand the point.

Apologies, I thought it was about the DC metro area in general and the high cost of living here in general.

And on what planet is Ft. Washington to Fairfax/Reston a short commute?

[Anonymous]

People don't realize that this is not how it has to be. There are cities that have diversity, TONS of culture, great schools, great cost-of-living, but much better quality of life than here. These do exist. Many cities in the midwest qualify. It doesn't have to Boston vs NYC vs San Fran.

Yes, salaries are lower, but the cost of living also is. You still might not be as well-off as here, but you trade that for more time with your family, less stress.

The secret is out there in places. For those fed up with this area, try and seek these other places out. Those of us who grew up in these other places know these cities' secrets. People automatically assume that it's either NYC/DC/Boston or redneck white-bred central. But it's not. There are some AMAZING big cities that still have the amenities of a city but a MUCH better quality of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People don't realize that this is not how it has to be. There are cities that have diversity, TONS of culture, great schools, great cost-of-living, but much better quality of life than here. These do exist. Many cities in the midwest qualify. It doesn't have to Boston vs NYC vs San Fran.

Yes, salaries are lower, but the cost of living also is. You still might not be as well-off as here, but you trade that for more time with your family, less stress.

The secret is out there in places. For those fed up with this area, try and seek these other places out. Those of us who grew up in these other places know these cities' secrets. People automatically assume that it's either NYC/DC/Boston or redneck white-bred central. But it's not. There are some AMAZING big cities that still have the amenities of a city but a MUCH better quality of life.

If you're talking Kansas City, no thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, of course, it's interesting that the most influential policies that European governments intentionally pushed during the 70s and 80s that the US is going to experience over the coming decades: specifically high fuel costs, and the attendant change in the way we do logistics.

As far as the meaning of "retrofitted properly", there are good ways and bad ways to do urbanism. While the planners understand that things need to change, and that growth needs to be pushed inward to the transit-accessible nodes, they've still got to get past suburban voters: who are mostly NIMBYs, love ample parking, and in general, will always push for policies that undercut the execution of the smart-growth planning.

Folks who understand and desire walkable communties are moving into urban areas: DC, Philly, Chicago, etc... People move to the suburbs because they largely want a "convenient" suburban experience. When push comes to shove, you can *always* count on suburban voters to do the wrong thing when it comes to urbanist design.

There are huge value judgments in what you've said. I'm willing to give up walkability for peace and quiet. I prefer the 'burbs because I don't have strange people walking through my neighborhood. I disliked Manhattan because strangers were always walking around yelling at all hours. Same with London (less yelling). There are no village-like spaces when you live in a city. Just public spaces. Always the intrusive sounds of sirens and traffic. I like quiet. I like being able to hear walnuts hitting the ground as they fall during autumn. Yes, I recognize that that's a luxury. But it's a sensibility that may people share.

Sure. But the thing about the sprawl model is that it's unsustainable. And I don't mean that in a crunchy, vegan, hippie way. You sprawl out, population increases, the road network becomes overwhelmed, and folks sit in traffic for hours on end. A trip to the grocery store becomes a nightmare. I'm not saying that you personally may not be able to carve out some niche of solitude in the cancerous mass that is suburban sprawl. But taken as a whole, the whole shit-show is beginning to collapse under its own weight. And although many suburban jurisdictions are attempting to address the problem, there's a Hell of a lot of political pressure to ignore reality, and just keep doing the same thing.

That's why, in the long run, suburbs always undercut their smart-growth planning that all the experts understand is necessary--and it's also why the neighborhoods in the city itself, and some close-in suburbs have and will continue to thrive while the exurbs choke on their own crapulence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"There really isn't any way to have a short commute, reasonable hours, and good schools, unless you're incredibly lucky or bought into the market prior to 2000. "

I disagree. We make $360k (not including rental property income) and live in Ft. Washington, MD. I commute to Fairfax and my husband commutes to Reston....we both can get to work later in the morning so our commutes are about an hour. We both work from home sometimes. I consider an hour or less around here a decent commute....it can take that long to get from one side of DC to the other. ...

Thanks for the story, but what does this add to the discussion? You make over $350K, bought in 2002, and you don't even live in the city. I am happy you find your life to be tolerable, but I don't understand the point.

Apologies, I thought it was about the DC metro area in general and the high cost of living here in general.

And on what planet is Ft. Washington to Fairfax/Reston a short commute?

Didn't you hear PP? Since she has a lot of flexibility in her schedule, on a good day the commute can be as low as one hour!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't realize that this is not how it has to be. There are cities that have diversity, TONS of culture, great schools, great cost-of-living, but much better quality of life than here. These do exist. Many cities in the midwest qualify. It doesn't have to Boston vs NYC vs San Fran.

Yes, salaries are lower, but the cost of living also is. You still might not be as well-off as here, but you trade that for more time with your family, less stress.

The secret is out there in places. For those fed up with this area, try and seek these other places out. Those of us who grew up in these other places know these cities' secrets. People automatically assume that it's either NYC/DC/Boston or redneck white-bred central. But it's not. There are some AMAZING big cities that still have the amenities of a city but a MUCH better quality of life.

If you're talking Kansas City, no thanks.

KC? You're being optimistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People don't realize that this is not how it has to be. There are cities that have diversity, TONS of culture, great schools, great cost-of-living, but much better quality of life than here. These do exist. Many cities in the midwest qualify. It doesn't have to Boston vs NYC vs San Fran.

Yes, salaries are lower, but the cost of living also is. You still might not be as well-off as here, but you trade that for more time with your family, less stress.

The secret is out there in places. For those fed up with this area, try and seek these other places out. Those of us who grew up in these other places know these cities' secrets. People automatically assume that it's either NYC/DC/Boston or redneck white-bred central. But it's not. There are some AMAZING big cities that still have the amenities of a city but a MUCH better quality of life.

Such as?!?

Look, there are good cities out there with a couple of museums, sports teams, colleges, etc., but they are not going to have "amenities" on par with large cities like DC, NY, SF, Chicago, etc. For a number of reasons, large cities have a concentration of resources (cultural, intellectual, business) that smaller cities don't have the infrastructure to support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"There really isn't any way to have a short commute, reasonable hours, and good schools, unless you're incredibly lucky or bought into the market prior to 2000. "

I disagree. We make $360k (not including rental property income) and live in Ft. Washington, MD. I commute to Fairfax and my husband commutes to Reston....we both can get to work later in the morning so our commutes are about an hour. We both work from home sometimes. I consider an hour or less around here a decent commute....it can take that long to get from one side of DC to the other. ...

Thanks for the story, but what does this add to the discussion? You make over $350K, bought in 2002, and you don't even live in the city. I am happy you find your life to be tolerable, but I don't understand the point.

Apologies, I thought it was about the DC metro area in general and the high cost of living here in general.

It is, but when you make $360K (well more than double my household income) then you are incredibly lucky and likely not facing the same challenges of those that make significantly less.

[Anonymous]

Chicago is a great case in point; it's essentially the cultural black hole of the Midwest: everything that's interesting in about an 400 mile radius has been sucked up by Chicago leaving a void outside the city. There's literally no point in ever leaving the city--you drive 300 miles and, hurray!, you're in Indianapolis!

[Anonymous]

Maybe I am naive but I haven't found it that difficult (although so far we are just expecting, but I like to plan out budgets). We make well under 300K, heck we even make under 200K and live in S. Arlington (so obviously not D.C. proper). We have an apt in a walkable neighborhood (2 bedroom 1200 square feet) with a school I won't hesitate to send me kid too (and yes I realize some may disagree but I went to school in state that is ranked at the bottom of the US when it comes to education and I managed to survive and get into college/law school).

Anyway, so we can't afford to buy a house right away, but we are able to put a signifigant amount into savings. That amount will of course dwindle when we start paying for day care but we will still put money into savings. Before we had kids we made sure that we had all of our consumer debt paid off (yes I drive a 13 year old car). We will likely be able to buy a SFH (with 20% down) in Arlington within the next 5-6 years (I will be 35). So yes, I may not live a glamorous lifestyle and no, I can't have that house immediately and yes it takes a lot of hard work (for example to pay off consumer debt we went on a spending freeze for 4 months) but it is possible.

Of course, I also find people to be nice here (we have monthly get togethers at my apt complex) and don't care abotu the traffic becuase it is 10 times better than back home. Of course we managed to find a place where both of us can take the bus from our front door to the front door of our work (me in 20 mins, DH in 45). I mean I will admit that backhome some of my friend's sibilings are buying houses at the age of 21 for 120K but I am still incredibly happy.

Now, yes if you make a total of under 100K I think it might suck to be in this area. But honsetly, anything above that and you need to learn to budget (and yes I have 207K in student loans too and somehow I manage).