How do you feel when friend buys McMansion?

[Anonymous]

I've gone through step-ups in life. I would say my wife and I went through our 30's having accomplished a LOT MORE than what the average successful NoVA professional have. We started out in a small apartment in Fredericksburg, and now live in a $2.5M home in McLean. We've moved on average every 2-3 years, and aside from our home own a few other properties, including our prior homes that we've held on to but now rent out.

We've lost a lot of people that we previously socialized with along the way. Some slowly fades while others stop much quicker. I would say that the same five stages of grief applies to jealousy:

1. Denial and Isolation - The person is overcome with emotional shock and disbelief that this is true, that someone they used to consider as financial equals are now revealed to be much more successful.
2. Anger - The person feels that this situation must be due to some injustice. The successful person must have cheated. How could the world be this unfair when similar people get dissimilar results.
3. Bargaining - Then the person believes "I can fix this!" What if I had invested when real estate was cheap. What if I went in when the stock market was low. What if I was able to take advantage of the precious metals volatility. The person may even jump on the internet to do some research, googling the phrase "how to be successful in life" or begin reading some motivational books.
4. Depression - As the reality of the situation settles in, the person realizes that there isn't some easy answer. The difference can only be equalized through hard work over time or access to scarce resources. The person has a sense of hopelessness that the past X years has been a waste while others were accelerating their careers and investments.
5. Acceptance - The person now simply accepts that their friend has done much better and moves on with their life. As with grief, not everyone reaches this stage of accepting their new reality. And even those that do reach this stage will have different end results. Some accept the situation and distance themselves from it, others embrace it as if nothing has happened.

For my particular case, I have mentally noted when I've met new people that had preconceived notions of their success and then were shattered when I learned more about them. I do go through the above stages, but very quickly, perhaps within a matter of seconds. Goes something like this:

1. What? you own 150 acres that just got an offer of 50 million from a developer? Is this guy pulling my leg? He doesn't appear that successful - he's wearing what looks like a Men's Warehouse suit! This disbelief evaporates when I ask some follow-up questions to confirm that this guy isn't just making up some grand story.
2. I think to my self "this guy must of got this in an inheritance" or something like that. Dumb luck, that must be it. This lasts less than 10 seconds as I remind myself not to be stupid. I then ask "that's amazing, how did you have such foresight?"
3. Bargaining - I bypass this. If there are any momentary thoughts of "if only I could have done that!", it's followed by a similarly silly thought of "if only I could time travel" to remind myself to stay rational.
4. Depression - This is the most difficult to get over, especially if the other person's success is due to hard work. I'd like to consider that I work pretty hard myself, but here is this guy who has worked even harder. How could I have been so lazy?!?! I'm a failure! Then I quickly remind myself that I am actually doing fairly well. This feeling comes back every now and again, but I quickly dismiss it.
5. Acceptance - I know this is the stage I want to get to and get to quickly, hopefully within the same span of conversation and within a minute of learning the initial shocking news. Once I get to this stage, I try to get as much information as possible so that I can learn from this person's success. Learning from people like these has been very helpful to my own success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:McMansions don't cost $2million.

They do in Arlington.

not really, people have moved on to McLean and other places near the orange and future silver line

http://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/5870-1st-St-N-22203/home/11241234

http://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/831-N-Woodrow-St-22203/home/11246771

http://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/2636-N-Sycamore-St-22207/home/11225363

http://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/3566-Military-Rd-22207/home/11229322

http://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/6201-36th-St-N-22213/home/11226427

I know this is a perennial debate and I don't want to start a giant thread debating it here but fwiw I don't really consider any of these homes to be mcmansions. They're not really eyesores; just big, new houses.

[Anonymous]

^^ lots of perturbed weirdos in this town: when successful people feel unaccomplished. old folks were right, money can't *truly* buy long term happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've gone through step-ups in life. I would say my wife and I went through our 30's having accomplished a LOT MORE than what the average successful NoVA professional have. We started out in a small apartment in Fredericksburg, and now live in a $2.5M home in McLean. We've moved on average every 2-3 years, and aside from our home own a few other properties, including our prior homes that we've held on to but now rent out.

We've lost a lot of people that we previously socialized with along the way. Some slowly fades while others stop much quicker. I would say that the same five stages of grief applies to jealousy:

1. Denial and Isolation - The person is overcome with emotional shock and disbelief that this is true, that someone they used to consider as financial equals are now revealed to be much more successful.
2. Anger - The person feels that this situation must be due to some injustice. The successful person must have cheated. How could the world be this unfair when similar people get dissimilar results.
3. Bargaining - Then the person believes "I can fix this!" What if I had invested when real estate was cheap. What if I went in when the stock market was low. What if I was able to take advantage of the precious metals volatility. The person may even jump on the internet to do some research, googling the phrase "how to be successful in life" or begin reading some motivational books.
4. Depression - As the reality of the situation settles in, the person realizes that there isn't some easy answer. The difference can only be equalized through hard work over time or access to scarce resources. The person has a sense of hopelessness that the past X years has been a waste while others were accelerating their careers and investments.
5. Acceptance - The person now simply accepts that their friend has done much better and moves on with their life. As with grief, not everyone reaches this stage of accepting their new reality. And even those that do reach this stage will have different end results. Some accept the situation and distance themselves from it, others embrace it as if nothing has happened.

For my particular case, I have mentally noted when I've met new people that had preconceived notions of their success and then were shattered when I learned more about them. I do go through the above stages, but very quickly, perhaps within a matter of seconds. Goes something like this:

1. What? you own 150 acres that just got an offer of 50 million from a developer? Is this guy pulling my leg? He doesn't appear that successful - he's wearing what looks like a Men's Warehouse suit! This disbelief evaporates when I ask some follow-up questions to confirm that this guy isn't just making up some grand story.
2. I think to my self "this guy must of got this in an inheritance" or something like that. Dumb luck, that must be it. This lasts less than 10 seconds as I remind myself not to be stupid. I then ask "that's amazing, how did you have such foresight?"
3. Bargaining - I bypass this. If there are any momentary thoughts of "if only I could have done that!", it's followed by a similarly silly thought of "if only I could time travel" to remind myself to stay rational.
4. Depression - This is the most difficult to get over, especially if the other person's success is due to hard work. I'd like to consider that I work pretty hard myself, but here is this guy who has worked even harder. How could I have been so lazy?!?! I'm a failure! Then I quickly remind myself that I am actually doing fairly well. This feeling comes back every now and again, but I quickly dismiss it.
5. Acceptance - I know this is the stage I want to get to and get to quickly, hopefully within the same span of conversation and within a minute of learning the initial shocking news. Once I get to this stage, I try to get as much information as possible so that I can learn from this person's success. Learning from people like these has been very helpful to my own success.

You and OP spend way too much time comparing yourselves to others. Geez. Get a life and an internal compass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You and OP spend way too much time comparing yourselves to others. Geez. Get a life and an internal compass.

OP here. I LOVED your long, well-written message. I agree with almost every aspect.

But I am not into working long hours. When I see someone work too hard, I think they are missing out on all the other enjoyable things about life. You work not just to accumulate wealth but to USE and ENJOY it. Does the hard worker have time to enjoy their mansion? Most work 60+ hours a week. The maid and the gardener spend more waking hours at the home. Do they watch TV or sports or movies? Some are texting or emailing or on their cell phones at all hours. Do they vacation? Do they spend quality time with the family? Do they have time to exercise?

And everyone is at least a bit envious of the lucky people. The lottery winner or the one that inherited millions...
This is human nature. Just accept it. I'm amazed at the number of people who deny it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You and OP spend way too much time comparing yourselves to others. Geez. Get a life and an internal compass.

PP here. I don't see what's wrong with comparing myself to others if my goal is to learn from other people's strength and to address my own weaknesses.

People are naturally competitive. Sports, games, school, careers, all have elements of competition to them to varying degrees. I don't see why "life success" is any different. Some people are not as competitive and are happy working the same job for 30-50 years, living a comfortable and uneventful middle class life that they find very fulfilling. I respect that very much. On the other hand, I have a more competitive personality so I try to better myself all the time. The best way to learn is to find other successful people and get them to share their wisdom. As long as the comparisons are healthy and constructive, I don't see any issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ lots of perturbed weirdos in this town: when successful people feel unaccomplished. old folks were right, money can't *truly* buy long term happiness.

PP here. Happiness is relative. I am relatively happy because I am relatively more successful. Success as a strong correlation with wealth, which in turn means having money. And since you only use money to buy things, therefore I would conclude that having money does lead one to being relatively more happy.

I keep myself going by constantly moving into situations where I am surrounded by people who are relatively equal or better than me. It's all too easy to achieve a level of success and then be satisfied with your level of relative happiness by comparing ourselves with people who are not doing as well. Our family income 10 years ago, while a small fraction of what it is today, was still higher than the national average. It was in fact squarely middle class even by Fairfax standards. I imagine I could be feeling pretty smug if we were still living in one of our old neighborhoods. Again, I respect the choice of others to be relatively happy with their situation. But similarly I know that my own success-driven lifestyle is also a rational choice and I feel no need to justify it beyond stating that it is so.

[Anonymous]

I think, "Whoa. I thought this person and I had similar values, but this is making me think I was wrong."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You and OP spend way too much time comparing yourselves to others. Geez. Get a life and an internal compass.

PP here. I don't see what's wrong with comparing myself to others if my goal is to learn from other people's strength and to address my own weaknesses.

People are naturally competitive. Sports, games, school, careers, all have elements of competition to them to varying degrees. I don't see why "life success" is any different. Some people are not as competitive and are happy working the same job for 30-50 years, living a comfortable and uneventful middle class life that they find very fulfilling. I respect that very much. On the other hand, I have a more competitive personality so I try to better myself all the time. The best way to learn is to find other successful people and get them to share their wisdom. As long as the comparisons are healthy and constructive, I don't see any issues.

PP, if it works for you and makes you happy, fine then. What struck me, though, was that you define life success as wealth, with wealth as something of a proxy for professional achievement. I disagree on both counts, or at least find something deeply lacking on both counts. I wouldn't consider someone a life success unless they had a healthy ego, had loving, secure relationships with family and friends, were an asset to their community, performed all of their responsibilities well--both professional and personal-- and had found a place in life that brought out the best of their character and talents. Your definition of life success seemed relatively flat to me.

Likewise, the only definition of professional success you note is determined by money. You basically excluded, by definition, all of the contributions and achievements people make that are not reflected in their pay. There doesn't seem to be room for people who provide social services, educate others, make discoveries in basic science, or simply put food on the table reliably for their family when that meager act takes a Herculean effort under their particular circumstances.

The knowledge you say you seek in running your comparisons with others is about how to further fulfill your own narrow definitions of success (read: wealth). It's not about gaining any kind of greater wisdom about something larger than yourself or your own interests. What's especially disheartening is that you deliberately only associate with people who are like or more successful than you according to wealth, so you deprive yourself of opportunities to actually become truly wise.

Sorry, PP, to sound so critical. I can tell there is much about you to admire. Don't sell life so short. It's far richer than you've described. (And maybe I have you all wrong. After all, a few paragraphs on a web post hardly capture us in all of our complexity, do they?) Cheers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You and OP spend way too much time comparing yourselves to others. Geez. Get a life and an internal compass.

PP here. I don't see what's wrong with comparing myself to others if my goal is to learn from other people's strength and to address my own weaknesses.

People are naturally competitive. Sports, games, school, careers, all have elements of competition to them to varying degrees. I don't see why "life success" is any different. Some people are not as competitive and are happy working the same job for 30-50 years, living a comfortable and uneventful middle class life that they find very fulfilling. I respect that very much. On the other hand, I have a more competitive personality so I try to better myself all the time. The best way to learn is to find other successful people and get them to share their wisdom. As long as the comparisons are healthy and constructive, I don't see any issues.

PP, if it works for you and makes you happy, fine then. What struck me, though, was that you define life success as wealth, with wealth as something of a proxy for professional achievement. I disagree on both counts, or at least find something deeply lacking on both counts. I wouldn't consider someone a life success unless they had a healthy ego, had loving, secure relationships with family and friends, were an asset to their community, performed all of their responsibilities well--both professional and personal-- and had found a place in life that brought out the best of their character and talents. Your definition of life success seemed relatively flat to me.

Likewise, the only definition of professional success you note is determined by money. You basically excluded, by definition, all of the contributions and achievements people make that are not reflected in their pay. There doesn't seem to be room for people who provide social services, educate others, make discoveries in basic science, or simply put food on the table reliably for their family when that meager act takes a Herculean effort under their particular circumstances.

The knowledge you say you seek in running your comparisons with others is about how to further fulfill your own narrow definitions of success (read: wealth). It's not about gaining any kind of greater wisdom about something larger than yourself or your own interests. What's especially disheartening is that you deliberately only associate with people who are like or more successful than you according to wealth, so you deprive yourself of opportunities to actually become truly wise.

Sorry, PP, to sound so critical. I can tell there is much about you to admire. Don't sell life so short. It's far richer than you've described. (And maybe I have you all wrong. After all, a few paragraphs on a web post hardly capture us in all of our complexity, do they?) Cheers.

11: 21 back. Yes, I agree with this. That is why, I said my reaction would be, "Whoa, I thought we had similar values, but this [new big house, mcMansion] is making me think I was wrong."

[Anonymous]

2.) I hope they invite me back again because I LOVED the swimming pool or the sauna or the gym or the movie theatre or the gourmet kitchen etc. etc. And now I can enjoy it for free!

This is what I think. Don't want to own a McMansion, but would be happy to enjoy a friend's amenities for a bit!

[Anonymous]

I would say that the same five stages of grief applies to jealousy:

1. Denial and Isolation - The person is overcome with emotional shock and disbelief that this is true, that someone they used to consider as financial equals are now revealed to be much more successful.
2. Anger - The person feels that this situation must be due to some injustice. The successful person must have cheated. How could the world be this unfair when similar people get dissimilar results.
3. Bargaining - Then the person believes "I can fix this!" What if I had invested when real estate was cheap. What if I went in when the stock market was low. What if I was able to take advantage of the precious metals volatility. The person may even jump on the internet to do some research, googling the phrase "how to be successful in life" or begin reading some motivational books.
4. Depression - As the reality of the situation settles in, the person realizes that there isn't some easy answer. The difference can only be equalized through hard work over time or access to scarce resources. The person has a sense of hopelessness that the past X years has been a waste while others were accelerating their careers and investments.
5. Acceptance - The person now simply accepts that their friend has done much better and moves on with their life. As with grief, not everyone reaches this stage of accepting their new reality. And even those that do reach this stage will have different end results. Some accept the situation and distance themselves from it, others embrace it as if nothing has happened.

Good grief, who on earth spends that much time thinking about this crap. If someone has a nice new house, or a lot of money, I spend one second thinking, "good for them, man I wish I had a nice house too," and then instantly jump to, "I hope they'll invite me to enjoy the pool/patio etc. etc."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jealous. Who doesn't want to live in a 2 mil house?

I don't think I do. That's a lot of maintenance/taxes. I'm annoyed enough with the maintenance/taxes on my house.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I find people's LACK of interest in wealth disheartening. Life works in 3 parts:

1. Educate yourself.
2. Work hard and become as wealthy as possible. Of course some balance is needed.
3. If you did 1 and 2 well, part 3 of your life is the most satisfying. Donate your time, wisdom, and wealth to others. This is a good time to become a teacher or volunteer. Spend time with grandkids. If you failed in 1 and 2, then you will just sit at home and rely on family members or the government to give your life meaning.

Too many people try to live phase 3 of their lives too early. They live it up early and run out of gas and are unhappy when they are older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I find people's LACK of interest in wealth disheartening. Life works in 3 parts:

1. Educate yourself.
2. Work hard and become as wealthy as possible. Of course some balance is needed.
3. If you did 1 and 2 well, part 3 of your life is the most satisfying. Donate your time, wisdom, and wealth to others. This is a good time to become a teacher or volunteer. Spend time with grandkids. If you failed in 1 and 2, then you will just sit at home and rely on family members or the government to give your life meaning.

Too many people try to live phase 3 of their lives too early. They live it up early and run out of gas and are unhappy when they are older.

You sound materialistic and unimaginative and sad. It's totally possible to be not just happy, but accomplished and content without being "as wealthy as possible."