9 Reasons to NOT get the H1N1 Vaccine

Anonymous
You use as proof something that by definition is not proof.


No, genius. I said that I considered it as anecdotal evidence in reaching a decision. Nowhere did I say I used it as proof. What lucky man married you?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
You use as proof something that by definition is not proof. And you do something to your children that you would not do to yourself. You don't need anyone to flame you. You actually flame yourself.


This is what I don't get. I could understand some anger directed at parents who choose not to vaccinate their kids, as kids are in a high risk group. I don't agree with the anger, but I can understand why some may feel indignant.

But here, I'm just talking about a personal choice I made for myself, taking into account anecdotal evidence with respect to the side effects from the flu vaccine, weighed in conjunction with the fact that I have a strong immune system and healthy habits that protect me from the flu, the scientific fact that flu vaccine is pretty hit-or-miss at protecting you from the flu, and the fact that even if I do get pig flu, I am not going to die from it.

So, let me ask you this: even if you disagree with my reasoning -- you think anecdotal evidence is worth nothing & that the flu vaccine protects 100% of the time & no habits can beat the protection of the flu vaccine. OK. For the sake of argument only, say I concede all of this.

Why the anger? Who I am hurting, or assuming a risk of harm for, other than myself? You don't think I have a right to make such a personal decision, even if it does come back to bite me? Is that what you're pissed about? You're a stranger so concerned with my well-being that you're mad at me for not taking better care of myself?? Let me suggest that you are overstepping, if this is the case. Unless you love me dearly, you have no right or reason to be angry with me for assuming a calculated risk . . . of getting the flu.

Or do you have some convoluted theory that, by not getting vaccinated, my risk of getting the flu increases, and if I get the flu, I could pass it to someone, and therefore my not getting vaccinated is morally wrong? Is that what you're pissed about?? Well, that sucks for you, then. We are a germ-ridden society. If you don't want to catch germs from others, I suggest you remain confined to your house. I don't have a moral obligation to get a vaccine that is not proven to protect from the flu so that you can feel better about your chances of getting the flu. Sorry, darlin', but that just ain't how the world works.


It's only hit-or-miss when they are guessing at the strains that will circulate. They KNOW the H1N1 is circulating, so it's a sure hit.
Anonymous
Not true. There is no guarantee that the pig flu vaccine will protect you from the pig flu. Wait and see.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Why the anger? Who I am hurting, or assuming a risk of harm for, other than myself? You don't think I have a right to make such a personal decision, even if it does come back to bite me? Is that what you're pissed about? You're a stranger so concerned with my well-being that you're mad at me for not taking better care of myself?? Let me suggest that you are overstepping, if this is the case. Unless you love me dearly, you have no right or reason to be angry with me for assuming a calculated risk . . . of getting the flu.

Or do you have some convoluted theory that, by not getting vaccinated, my risk of getting the flu increases, and if I get the flu, I could pass it to someone, and therefore my not getting vaccinated is morally wrong? Is that what you're pissed about?? Well, that sucks for you, then. We are a germ-ridden society. If you don't want to catch germs from others, I suggest you remain confined to your house. I don't have a moral obligation to get a vaccine that is not proven to protect from the flu so that you can feel better about your chances of getting the flu. Sorry, darlin', but that just ain't how the world works.




I couldnt agree more. Like I said earlier. Each to their own. We all have our own personal morals and and beliefts... These forums are to discuss and get different perspectives, not slam eachother into the ground. I think it is is extremly important to talk about these things but at what cost? Ignorance? People are intitaled to their opinions and decisions for themselves and their families. Respect that.

And to add to this forum... Since the initial vaccine, is anyone aware of how much the strain as changed in the last 7 months and is the vaccine still effected as they believe it to be?

Anonymous
To the "pig flu" poster--why are you spending a lot of effort describing your personal-decision-which-affects-only-you here on this forum, in a thread entitled "9 reasons not to get the H1N1 vaccine?" Could it possibly be because you hope to persuade others to see things your way?

When people say they disagree with your reasoning, they are hoping to persuade others not to see things your way--not questioning your right to make medical decisions for yourself.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:To the "pig flu" poster--why are you spending a lot of effort describing your personal-decision-which-affects-only-you here on this forum, in a thread entitled "9 reasons not to get the H1N1 vaccine?" Could it possibly be because you hope to persuade others to see things your way?

When people say they disagree with your reasoning, they are hoping to persuade others not to see things your way--not questioning your right to make medical decisions for yourself.


It is called insight, and clearly you have none, as you haven't added anything to this forum with this comment other than wasting space.

I'm not personally the "pig flu poster" and I don't agree with you. Their comments are no different than the reasons you go and get vaccinated... You look at your personal reasons for why you go and get vaccinated and the sources from which you got the idea from in the first place, and it is no different than where people get their beliefs and values against it. They might not be the same as yours. Deal with it.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
You use as proof something that by definition is not proof. And you do something to your children that you would not do to yourself. You don't need anyone to flame you. You actually flame yourself.


This is what I don't get. I could understand some anger directed at parents who choose not to vaccinate their kids, as kids are in a high risk group. I don't agree with the anger, but I can understand why some may feel indignant.

But here, I'm just talking about a personal choice I made for myself, taking into account anecdotal evidence with respect to the side effects from the flu vaccine, weighed in conjunction with the fact that I have a strong immune system and healthy habits that protect me from the flu, the scientific fact that flu vaccine is pretty hit-or-miss at protecting you from the flu, and the fact that even if I do get pig flu, I am not going to die from it.

So, let me ask you this: even if you disagree with my reasoning -- you think anecdotal evidence is worth nothing & that the flu vaccine protects 100% of the time & no habits can beat the protection of the flu vaccine. OK. For the sake of argument only, say I concede all of this.

Why the anger? Who I am hurting, or assuming a risk of harm for, other than myself? You don't think I have a right to make such a personal decision, even if it does come back to bite me? Is that what you're pissed about? You're a stranger so concerned with my well-being that you're mad at me for not taking better care of myself?? Let me suggest that you are overstepping, if this is the case. Unless you love me dearly, you have no right or reason to be angry with me for assuming a calculated risk . . . of getting the flu.

Or do you have some convoluted theory that, by not getting vaccinated, my risk of getting the flu increases, and if I get the flu, I could pass it to someone, and therefore my not getting vaccinated is morally wrong? Is that what you're pissed about?? Well, that sucks for you, then. We are a germ-ridden society. If you don't want to catch germs from others, I suggest you remain confined to your house. I don't have a moral obligation to get a vaccine that is not proven to protect from the flu so that you can feel better about your chances of getting the flu. Sorry, darlin', but that just ain't how the world works.


I don't care if you personally make decisions that way. But when you post your opinion, you are advocating your point of view, whether you think so or not. Others will look at your post, and some will say "I'm in the same boat. Maybe I should pass on the vaccine". But the logic is flawed. An anecdote is not statistically significant, and your situation is most likely due to randomness. It is ok for you to be fooled by randomness but it doesn't have to happen to others. Lastly you said flame away.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:To the "pig flu" poster--why are you spending a lot of effort describing your personal-decision-which-affects-only-you here on this forum, in a thread entitled "9 reasons not to get the H1N1 vaccine?" Could it possibly be because you hope to persuade others to see things your way?

When people say they disagree with your reasoning, they are hoping to persuade others not to see things your way--not questioning your right to make medical decisions for yourself.


Well, um, that would be fine and I would take your point. But some ass called me a bad mother because I vaccinated my children and not myself. She also misread my post to mean that I was accepting as "proof" something that is not "proof" and thought it necessary to give me lessons in diction. So at that point, yes, I felt some need to defend my own decision.
Anonymous
I don't care if you personally make decisions that way.


Thanks. That's very generous of you.

But when you post your opinion, you are advocating your point of view, whether you think so or not.


So?

Others will look at your post, and some will say "I'm in the same boat. Maybe I should pass on the vaccine".


You have a problem with that? Ever heard of the market place of ideas? Where people are free to choose the ones they like, and disregard the ones they don't and, ultimately, the best ideas emerge?

But the logic is flawed. An anecdote is not statistically significant


Actually, it is. Anecdotal evidence is indeed an accepted form of evidence, and it can well be, and has been statistically significant. It's a form of evidence. One of many that should be considered. It is not scientific proof.

your situation is most likely due to randomness.


That's your opinion, that people are free to agree with or disregard. At least one other poster in this thread has experienced the same "randomness". Furthermore, the anecdotal evidence indicates that many who get the flu vaccine experience flu-like symptoms for a few days afterward. I know I'm only a dangerous moron, but to me this suggests something far from "random". To me, it suggests that when you inject or inhale a little bit of flu into your body, it might make you sick. Big surprise.

It is ok for you to be fooled by randomness


Again, thanks for your permission.

but it doesn't have to happen to others.


Are you suggesting that my opinion should be censored? If so, you're more of an ass than you've already come across as.

I have an idea: I'm going to continue to eat right, exercise, get plenty of rest, drink a lot of water, and wash my hands a lot. You've apparently been vaccinated. Let's come back here in a few months and see if either of us got the flu. My bets are on me.
Anonymous
of avoiding the flu that is. Just thought I'd make my point real clear, as you seem very dense.
Anonymous
Well, um, that would be fine and I would take your point. But some ass called me a bad mother because I vaccinated my children and not myself. She also misread my post to mean that I was accepting as "proof" something that is not "proof" and thought it necessary to give me lessons in diction. So at that point, yes, I felt some need to defend my own decision.


As someone who's not had an H1N1 vaccine, I'm not sure ad hominem arguments (or the hostility above) really enhance your persuasiveness, but to each her own. As you point out, it's the marketplace of ideas.
Anonymous
Of course it's ad hominem. Some one attacked me, and I responded to her. Some things are personal. There's no reason to get all Latin about it.
Anonymous
So let's stop pretending that people are right or wrong or stupid or smart for making the decision one way or another. You would get the impression from this board that there is only one 'right & scientific' choice. This is not true, so back off all you vaccine pushers.
Anonymous
YEAH.
Anonymous
20:18 here. And also, don't assume that people are deciding not to get the H1N1 vaccine because they have a fear of it and/or have been influenced by some mass hysteria about it. Some people just don't think it is really necessary. Simple as that. We've weighed up the numbers and even though we don't think the vaccine would kill us, we simply don't think it is necessary.
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