I'm living abroad in the UK and I hate it.

[Anonymous]

As someone who has lived in several countries in three countries, it is absurd not to acknowledge that there are differences that Americans may find irksome and acknowledging these does not reflect bias or some attitude of superiority.

For example, without naming the countries, there are those where people are habitually late and not keeping time is viewed as the norm. Then there are differences in personal hygiene including how often one bathes and whether people use a bidet. There are a couple of Asian countries where running out of food when you invite guests is viewed as the height of poor hospitality. Then we have places where it is considered the norm to break a line at a grocery store and expect no one to object - usually when someone has one or two items and others in front have grocery carts with many more items. They don't even ask before doing so.

Customer service in the US is not what it used to be but it is still head and shoulders above what one finds in most countries - there are countries where the very concept of customer service is alien to that culture.

Recognizing these realities is not silly. It is also not silly to say that because of x,y or z, one would much rather live in the US than another country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument of who's ruder is getting pretty ridiculous as I'm finding that British and American reputations abroad are more similar than not. And they aren't particularly good, especially in the time of Trump and Brexit.

Americans may only seem nicer b/c we naturally smile more and overtip compared to the locals.

This is as sophomoric an explanation as I have seen on why Americans are perceived as more friendly.

What I find interesting is that Americans are very comfortable with criticizing others, but are very think skinned if anyone, including another American, says anything that is critical of Americans or America. I think we were more able before to be balanced and acknowledge that we too have shortcomings. I also don't think we were as quick to judge. I hope the pendulum swings back to where we allow people their flaws without being overly critical, and to where we can objectively acknowledge we aren't perfect, and that's ok. This extremely judgmental reaction to what we view as other people's flaws, and our unwillingness to be empathetic to differences, is currently destroying our country from within. I think anonymous boards have helped us to develop this very argumentative and unforgiving inner core, without even noticing it was happening. My colleagues and I were recently discussing that our country as a whole was more tolerant and live and let live in the 80s and 90s. I'm not sure how we unring the bell, but I sure hope we do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument of who's ruder is getting pretty ridiculous as I'm finding that British and American reputations abroad are more similar than not. And they aren't particularly good, especially in the time of Trump and Brexit.

Americans may only seem nicer b/c we naturally smile more and overtip compared to the locals.

This is as sophomoric an explanation as I have seen on why Americans are perceived as more friendly.

What I find interesting is that Americans are very comfortable with criticizing others, but are very think skinned if anyone, including another American, says anything that is critical of Americans or America. I think we were more able before to be balanced and acknowledge that we too have shortcomings. I also don't think we were as quick to judge. I hope the pendulum swings back to where we allow people their flaws without being overly critical, and to where we can objectively acknowledge we aren't perfect, and that's ok. This extremely judgmental reaction to what we view as other people's flaws, and our unwillingness to be empathetic to differences, is currently destroying our country from within. I think anonymous boards have helped us to develop this very argumentative and unforgiving inner core, without even noticing it was happening. My colleagues and I were recently discussing that our country as a whole was more tolerant and live and let live in the 80s and 90s. I'm not sure how we unring the bell, but I sure hope we do.

I disagree. I am often shocked at some of the comments Europeans will make about America and how quick they are to judge about things they often know little about. I would NEVER say something bad about someone's country. It's like insulting someone's home. The Americans I know are not the types who would travel abroad and make rude comments about the host's country. Whereas that seems very common for Europeans to do. It's like they hear this stuff frequently in the media and don't even recognize they are being rude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument of who's ruder is getting pretty ridiculous as I'm finding that British and American reputations abroad are more similar than not. And they aren't particularly good, especially in the time of Trump and Brexit.

Americans may only seem nicer b/c we naturally smile more and overtip compared to the locals.

This is as sophomoric an explanation as I have seen on why Americans are perceived as more friendly.

What I find interesting is that Americans are very comfortable with criticizing others, but are very think skinned if anyone, including another American, says anything that is critical of Americans or America. I think we were more able before to be balanced and acknowledge that we too have shortcomings. I also don't think we were as quick to judge. I hope the pendulum swings back to where we allow people their flaws without being overly critical, and to where we can objectively acknowledge we aren't perfect, and that's ok. This extremely judgmental reaction to what we view as other people's flaws, and our unwillingness to be empathetic to differences, is currently destroying our country from within. I think anonymous boards have helped us to develop this very argumentative and unforgiving inner core, without even noticing it was happening. My colleagues and I were recently discussing that our country as a whole was more tolerant and live and let live in the 80s and 90s. I'm not sure how we unring the bell, but I sure hope we do.

I disagree. I am often shocked at some of the comments Europeans will make about America and how quick they are to judge about things they often know little about. I would NEVER say something bad about someone's country. It's like insulting someone's home. The Americans I know are not the types who would travel abroad and make rude comments about the host's country. Whereas that seems very common for Europeans to do. It's like they hear this stuff frequently in the media and don't even recognize they are being rude.

I am not talking about individual Americans, of course there are exceptions. Have you read this thread? Many judgmental Americans. I don't dispute whether Europeans are rude, I'm just saying I think Americans were kinder and more tolerant before, and I'm sad to see us lose that. Just like I say to my kids when they point out that "so and so does the same thing," I want better for us. We are capable of it and I hope we see that we're developing a less tolerant inner core as a whole (not every individual), and decide it's not the right direction.

[Anonymous]

Are you cia or state dept?

Imo living abroad solo sucks unless you're in college, wealthy, model-tier gorgeous, or powerful. If you're just some schmuck living in a place with no friends, of course it's going to suck.

I'll say living abroad with your family isn't so bad. My husband and I lived in Italy for 20 months -- he's an engineer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has lived in several countries in three countries, it is absurd not to acknowledge that there are differences that Americans may find irksome and acknowledging these does not reflect bias or some attitude of superiority.

For example, without naming the countries, there are those where people are habitually late and not keeping time is viewed as the norm. Then there are differences in personal hygiene including how often one bathes and whether people use a bidet. There are a couple of Asian countries where running out of food when you invite guests is viewed as the height of poor hospitality. Then we have places where it is considered the norm to break a line at a grocery store and expect no one to object - usually when someone has one or two items and others in front have grocery carts with many more items. They don't even ask before doing so.

Customer service in the US is not what it used to be but it is still head and shoulders above what one finds in most countries - there are countries where the very concept of customer service is alien to that culture.

Recognizing these realities is not silly. It is also not silly to say that because of x,y or z, one would much rather live in the US than another country.

Where can you cut a line and no one will object?

[Anonymous]

In general western Europeans and the British are very disparaging of Americans though they don't usually do it in their presence.

It is relentless and rarely do they have a good thing to say about them and this precedes Trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you cia or state dept?

Imo living abroad solo sucks unless you're in college, wealthy, model-tier gorgeous, or powerful. If you're just some schmuck living in a place with no friends, of course it's going to suck.

I'll say living abroad with your family isn't so bad. My husband and I lived in Italy for 20 months -- he's an engineer.

I've lived in Italy solo and Italy is great! Italians are fantastic, vivacious, outgoing, friendly, emotive, etc. I actually think much of the Northeast is very Italian in personality, especially New York and New Jersey (unsurprisingly to people who know the demographics) so if you fit in there and like that kind of personality, you'll LOVE Italy and feel right at home.

The cold and rude English are another issue entirely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you cia or state dept?

Imo living abroad solo sucks unless you're in college, wealthy, model-tier gorgeous, or powerful. If you're just some schmuck living in a place with no friends, of course it's going to suck.

I'll say living abroad with your family isn't so bad. My husband and I lived in Italy for 20 months -- he's an engineer.

I've lived in Italy solo and Italy is great! Italians are fantastic, vivacious, outgoing, friendly, emotive, etc. I actually think much of the Northeast is very Italian in personality, especially New York and New Jersey (unsurprisingly to people who know the demographics) so if you fit in there and like that kind of personality, you'll LOVE Italy and feel right at home.

The cold and rude English are another issue entirely.

NYC was infamous for being cold and indifferent and pushy. Boston for being cold and indifferent to outsiders. I don’t see any resemblance between Italy and the Northeast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you cia or state dept?

Imo living abroad solo sucks unless you're in college, wealthy, model-tier gorgeous, or powerful. If you're just some schmuck living in a place with no friends, of course it's going to suck.

I'll say living abroad with your family isn't so bad. My husband and I lived in Italy for 20 months -- he's an engineer.

I've lived in Italy solo and Italy is great! Italians are fantastic, vivacious, outgoing, friendly, emotive, etc. I actually think much of the Northeast is very Italian in personality, especially New York and New Jersey (unsurprisingly to people who know the demographics) so if you fit in there and like that kind of personality, you'll LOVE Italy and feel right at home.

The cold and rude English are another issue entirely.

NYC was infamous for being cold and indifferent and pushy. Boston for being cold and indifferent to outsiders. I don’t see any resemblance between Italy and the Northeast.

Nope, New Yorkers and Northeasterners are known for being outgoing and direct. A LOT like Italy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument of who's ruder is getting pretty ridiculous as I'm finding that British and American reputations abroad are more similar than not. And they aren't particularly good, especially in the time of Trump and Brexit.

Americans may only seem nicer b/c we naturally smile more and overtip compared to the locals.

This is as sophomoric an explanation as I have seen on why Americans are perceived as more friendly.

What I find interesting is that Americans are very comfortable with criticizing others, but are very think skinned if anyone, including another American, says anything that is critical of Americans or America. I think we were more able before to be balanced and acknowledge that we too have shortcomings. I also don't think we were as quick to judge. I hope the pendulum swings back to where we allow people their flaws without being overly critical, and to where we can objectively acknowledge we aren't perfect, and that's ok. This extremely judgmental reaction to what we view as other people's flaws, and our unwillingness to be empathetic to differences, is currently destroying our country from within. I think anonymous boards have helped us to develop this very argumentative and unforgiving inner core, without even noticing it was happening. My colleagues and I were recently discussing that our country as a whole was more tolerant and live and let live in the 80s and 90s. I'm not sure how we unring the bell, but I sure hope we do.

I disagree. I am often shocked at some of the comments Europeans will make about America and how quick they are to judge about things they often know little about. I would NEVER say something bad about someone's country. It's like insulting someone's home. The Americans I know are not the types who would travel abroad and make rude comments about the host's country. Whereas that seems very common for Europeans to do. It's like they hear this stuff frequently in the media and don't even recognize they are being rude.

x10000

Americans today think everything is about them. See most recent PP. LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you cia or state dept?

Imo living abroad solo sucks unless you're in college, wealthy, model-tier gorgeous, or powerful. If you're just some schmuck living in a place with no friends, of course it's going to suck.

I'll say living abroad with your family isn't so bad. My husband and I lived in Italy for 20 months -- he's an engineer.

I've lived in Italy solo and Italy is great! Italians are fantastic, vivacious, outgoing, friendly, emotive, etc. I actually think much of the Northeast is very Italian in personality, especially New York and New Jersey (unsurprisingly to people who know the demographics) so if you fit in there and like that kind of personality, you'll LOVE Italy and feel right at home.

The cold and rude English are another issue entirely.

NYC was infamous for being cold and indifferent and pushy. Boston for being cold and indifferent to outsiders. I don’t see any resemblance between Italy and the Northeast.

Nope, New Yorkers and Northeasterners are known for being outgoing and direct. A LOT like Italy.

Oh Lordy. Do NOT mention the northeast - or *especially* NYC on this board it makes the locals go ballistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you cia or state dept?

Imo living abroad solo sucks unless you're in college, wealthy, model-tier gorgeous, or powerful. If you're just some schmuck living in a place with no friends, of course it's going to suck.

I'll say living abroad with your family isn't so bad. My husband and I lived in Italy for 20 months -- he's an engineer.

I've lived in Italy solo and Italy is great! Italians are fantastic, vivacious, outgoing, friendly, emotive, etc. I actually think much of the Northeast is very Italian in personality, especially New York and New Jersey (unsurprisingly to people who know the demographics) so if you fit in there and like that kind of personality, you'll LOVE Italy and feel right at home.

The cold and rude English are another issue entirely.

NYC was infamous for being cold and indifferent and pushy. Boston for being cold and indifferent to outsiders. I don’t see any resemblance between Italy and the Northeast.

Maybe the Bostonians just don't like you. In which case, it is fair to assume you fit right in here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument of who's ruder is getting pretty ridiculous as I'm finding that British and American reputations abroad are more similar than not. And they aren't particularly good, especially in the time of Trump and Brexit.

Americans may only seem nicer b/c we naturally smile more and overtip compared to the locals.

This is as sophomoric an explanation as I have seen on why Americans are perceived as more friendly.

What I find interesting is that Americans are very comfortable with criticizing others, but are very think skinned if anyone, including another American, says anything that is critical of Americans or America. I think we were more able before to be balanced and acknowledge that we too have shortcomings. I also don't think we were as quick to judge. I hope the pendulum swings back to where we allow people their flaws without being overly critical, and to where we can objectively acknowledge we aren't perfect, and that's ok. This extremely judgmental reaction to what we view as other people's flaws, and our unwillingness to be empathetic to differences, is currently destroying our country from within. I think anonymous boards have helped us to develop this very argumentative and unforgiving inner core, without even noticing it was happening. My colleagues and I were recently discussing that our country as a whole was more tolerant and live and let live in the 80s and 90s. I'm not sure how we unring the bell, but I sure hope we do.

I disagree. I am often shocked at some of the comments Europeans will make about America and how quick they are to judge about things they often know little about. I would NEVER say something bad about someone's country. It's like insulting someone's home. The Americans I know are not the types who would travel abroad and make rude comments about the host's country. Whereas that seems very common for Europeans to do. It's like they hear this stuff frequently in the media and don't even recognize they are being rude.

+1
We have British neighbors who take every opportunity to say disparaging things about the U.S. I would dearly love to tell them to just move back to the U.K. They'd be happier (I guess?) and we'd be happier. I can't imagine living in a foreign country and being that rude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, let me give you a different perspective which is in line with much of what you say.

I am British and moved to the US several decades ago after being given an offer that I could not refuse! I was supposed to stay for just a couple of years but my employer said they would help me get a green card, retained an immigration lawyer on my behalf and after a couple of years I was given a green card and subsequently became a citizen.

The different perspective I referred to above: the culture shock I went through was just how service oriented businesses are in the US, how polite people are especially at department stores and restaurants and just about any type of business. I found Americans I worked with to be friendly and had no hesitation in inviting me to a bbq at their house, etc. It really was quite amazing how welcoming they were. One thing that may have helped me is that Americans generally are Anglophiles and my very English accent went down well - though today my accent is probably a mix of American and English. When I visit England I am told I have an American accent and over here they tell me that I have a British accent. But a British accent really has helped me both at work and socially though - unlike many of my compatriots - I never go on about how great life was in the UK, because quite frankly, I enjoy a far higher standard of living here than I did there. This higher standard of living applies to so many facets of life some of them you have named: a/c, central heating, the cost of living, etc.

My final comment pertains to health care. I am entirely familiar with the NHS and I will tell you that for someone who does not have any insurance or has inadequate insurance, there is nothing better than the NHS but for those who do have good insurance in the US, the overall standard of medical care especially if you are hospitalized is way better here.It is still the norm in much of the UK under NHS to end up in a ward if you are hospitalized - as opposed to a private or semi-private room here! I can give you specific instances of relatives who went through endless waits for relatively routine procedures eg knee replacements and pretty much any elective surgery. But the point that will best illustrate the NHS scene is that the most sought after employee benefit in the UK is private insurance - which would hardly be the case if the NHS was all that it was made out to be by some over there and here. This is not to say that health care here does not need reform because it does.

So, I am one grateful person and my decision to emigrate and settle down in the US is one of the best decisions that I ever made. BTW, when I was looking at moving here permanently relatives and friends were horrified and the disparaging comments about the US and Americans were relentless. To this day when I tell people there about how life in the US is good, there is an attitude of disbelief but then the British generally react disparagingly about other nationalities as well with the French and Germans getting the brunt of the criticism - though not nearly as much as Americans.

This is all a wonderful read and so elucidating and helpful. Thank you so much for giving your perspective, which seems much more informed than most of the posters here. It was really interesting to read.

I was wondering... do you have any idea why the British have more dislike for Americans over other nationalities? It does seem strange to me since most Americans, as you said, quite like the British.

OP, let me offer you a couple of other thoughts on why the British - and English especially - react the way they do to Americans.

A fellow Brit said that at a basic level there is an element of jealousy that the US is the predominant economic and military power in the world - though it is a position that is being increasingly challenged especially in terms of economic dominance. In many of what were the former British colonies, there was an attitude among the people in those countries that looked up to the British - that has pretty much disappeared. The country that has the most influence over these former British colonies is now the US.

Keep in mind that barely 60 years ago, the British ruled supreme over much of the world - a position that has diminished to the point of non-existence today. British education and values were looked up to but that is not the case any more - and that is not to knock the British education system which is still excellent. Most older Brits remember those heady times though the younger generation have grown up in an environment where Britain's role as a colonial power is something that is not a factor.

The class system is no longer as dominant as it used to be but there are still vestiges of it to this day. In this context, the Americans are viewed as being part of the nouveau rich - people with new found wealth but not much in the way of "breeding" as the British used to call it. The "browning" of America that is causing so much angst among some Americans today is something the British went through a few decades ago. In many ways Americans are more receptive to that change than were the British when it started to happen. You saw this in the British government's attitude to regimes abroad that proudly proclaimed their superiority because they were controlled by whites - I am thinking of South Africa under apartheid and Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) which unilaterally declared independence and installed a government that was controlled by white settlers. British governments all the way to Margaret Thatcher were sympathetic to those white dominated regimes - and this was not so long ago.

Much of what you wrote reads like a commentary by a 18 year old kid whose knowledge of history and world politics is gained mostly from third rate blogs.

DP here. I lived in the UK for 12 years and PP is spot-on. There is definitely a bit of insecurity/envy among the Brits. This explains why so many of them are rude.