Hebrew Catholics

[Anonymous]

Such a long thread for a thing that doesn't even exist!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For Jews who have joined the Catholic Church, but retain their Jewish cultural/ethnic/religious identity, how have you done so? Do you go to mass and synagogue? Do you find yourself welcome in both communities?

You can’t be both Catholic and Jewish.

You can be Catholic by faith and Jewish by ethnic background. Here are some Jewish converts to Catholics explaining that in their own words: https://chnetwork.org/converts/jewish/

Okay, but it wouldn't be appropriate for a Jew who has abandoned their faith to go back to a Jewish synagogue.

Much ink has been spilled on the topic since the Spanish Inquisition. Orthodox authorities generally agree that they are welcome back, so long as they don't proselytize.

I'm pretty sure the Spanish Inquisition was about the Moors in Europe being converted. Look up the history of the Moor people.

The Spanish Inquisition was about both the Moors and the Jews being converted. Basically, everyone had to be Catholic or die.

Not true. I recommend Rodney Stark's "Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic History" for the truth.

I'm not going to read an apologist book about the Catholic Church. I'm not holding some deep-seated hatred for Catholicism. Priests and nuns did some truly heroic things during the Holocaust. But the Inquisition was forced conversion of non-Catholics to Catholicism. The torture is pretty well historically documented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For Jews who have joined the Catholic Church, but retain their Jewish cultural/ethnic/religious identity, how have you done so? Do you go to mass and synagogue? Do you find yourself welcome in both communities?

You can’t be both Catholic and Jewish.

You can be Catholic by faith and Jewish by ethnic background. Here are some Jewish converts to Catholics explaining that in their own words: https://chnetwork.org/converts/jewish/

Okay, but it wouldn't be appropriate for a Jew who has abandoned their faith to go back to a Jewish synagogue.

Much ink has been spilled on the topic since the Spanish Inquisition. Orthodox authorities generally agree that they are welcome back, so long as they don't proselytize.

I'm pretty sure the Spanish Inquisition was about the Moors in Europe being converted. Look up the history of the Moor people.

The Spanish Inquisition was about both the Moors and the Jews being converted. Basically, everyone had to be Catholic or die.

Not true. I recommend Rodney Stark's "Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic History" for the truth.

I'm not going to read an apologist book about the Catholic Church. I'm not holding some deep-seated hatred for Catholicism. Priests and nuns did some truly heroic things during the Holocaust. But the Inquisition was forced conversion of non-Catholics to Catholicism. The torture is pretty well historically documented.

Rodney Stark is not a Catholic. He's a college professor at Baylor. The Inquisition was absolutely not forced conversion of non-Catholics. There's an edifying chapter in the book about what the Inquisition really involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Such a long thread for a thing that doesn't even exist!

There's an Association of Hebrew Catholics and Jews who are Catholics exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For Jews who have joined the Catholic Church, but retain their Jewish cultural/ethnic/religious identity, how have you done so? Do you go to mass and synagogue? Do you find yourself welcome in both communities?

You can’t be both Catholic and Jewish.

You can be Catholic by faith and Jewish by ethnic background. Here are some Jewish converts to Catholics explaining that in their own words: https://chnetwork.org/converts/jewish/

Okay, but it wouldn't be appropriate for a Jew who has abandoned their faith to go back to a Jewish synagogue.

Much ink has been spilled on the topic since the Spanish Inquisition. Orthodox authorities generally agree that they are welcome back, so long as they don't proselytize.

I'm pretty sure the Spanish Inquisition was about the Moors in Europe being converted. Look up the history of the Moor people.

The Spanish Inquisition was about both the Moors and the Jews being converted. Basically, everyone had to be Catholic or die.

Not true. I recommend Rodney Stark's "Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic History" for the truth.

I'm not going to read an apologist book about the Catholic Church. I'm not holding some deep-seated hatred for Catholicism. Priests and nuns did some truly heroic things during the Holocaust. But the Inquisition was forced conversion of non-Catholics to Catholicism. The torture is pretty well historically documented.

Rodney Stark is not a Catholic. He's a college professor at Baylor. The Inquisition was absolutely not forced conversion of non-Catholics. There's an edifying chapter in the book about what the Inquisition really involved.

I didn't say the author was Catholic. I said it sounds like an apologist book. What part of the Inquisition was not forced conversion of non-Catholics? The autos de fe? The rack?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Such a long thread for a thing that doesn't even exist!

There's an Association of Hebrew Catholics and Jews who are Catholics exist.

Jews by definition cannot be Catholic. There are also people who believe they are horses and cats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Such a long thread for a thing that doesn't even exist!

There's an Association of Hebrew Catholics and Jews who are Catholics exist.

I have ancestors who were Jewish. They converted to Catholicism. I was raised as a Catholic. I am not Jewish ethnically, religiously, or culturally. I'm not sure what it means to be Jewish "culturally". Aren't they part of the culture of whatever country they reside in? Wouldn't being "culturally" Jewish mean that you speak Hebrew on a daily basis (and probably live in Israel)? Culture is tied to language.

[Anonymous]

^I would say that I am ethnically and culturally American.

[Anonymous]

"Jews by definition cannot be Catholic."

Anonymous may have definitions of "Jew" and "Catholic" in which a person cannot be both. But the Association of Hebrew Catholics exists as an apostolate which has been blessed by Cardinal Raymond Burke among others. See our website at https://hebrewcatholic.net

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Jews by definition cannot be Catholic."

Anonymous may have definitions of "Jew" and "Catholic" in which a person cannot be both. But the Association of Hebrew Catholics exists as an apostolate which has been blessed by Cardinal Raymond Burke among others. See our website at https://hebrewcatholic.net

Mmmmkay but it has not been "blessed" by normative Jews. Call yourself whatever you want, but if you're claiming membership in two groups you have to satisfy the definitions set by both. According to one of these groups, membership in either precludes membership in the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For Jews who have joined the Catholic Church, but retain their Jewish cultural/ethnic/religious identity, how have you done so? Do you go to mass and synagogue? Do you find yourself welcome in both communities?

You can’t be both Catholic and Jewish.

You can be Catholic by faith and Jewish by ethnic background. Here are some Jewish converts to Catholics explaining that in their own words: https://chnetwork.org/converts/jewish/

Okay, but it wouldn't be appropriate for a Jew who has abandoned their faith to go back to a Jewish synagogue.

Much ink has been spilled on the topic since the Spanish Inquisition. Orthodox authorities generally agree that they are welcome back, so long as they don't proselytize.

I'm pretty sure the Spanish Inquisition was about the Moors in Europe being converted. Look up the history of the Moor people.

The Spanish Inquisition was about both the Moors and the Jews being converted. Basically, everyone had to be Catholic or die.

Not true. I recommend Rodney Stark's "Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic History" for the truth.

I'm not going to read an apologist book about the Catholic Church. I'm not holding some deep-seated hatred for Catholicism. Priests and nuns did some truly heroic things during the Holocaust. But the Inquisition was forced conversion of non-Catholics to Catholicism. The torture is pretty well historically documented.

Rodney Stark is not a Catholic. He's a college professor at Baylor. The Inquisition was absolutely not forced conversion of non-Catholics. There's an edifying chapter in the book about what the Inquisition really involved.

I didn't say the author was Catholic. I said it sounds like an apologist book. What part of the Inquisition was not forced conversion of non-Catholics? The autos de fe? The rack?

From https://kirkcenter.org/reviews/nobody-expects-the-spanish-inquisition-to-be-explained-fairly/
"But as Stark makes clear, by the standards of the day, the Spanish Inquisition was actually fairly innocuous. Torture, for instance, was a standard way of getting confessions at the time, and while the Inquisition employed it, it did so within strict guidelines secular courts often lacked. In fact, the Inquisition’s reputation was so much better than that of the secular courts that defendants would try to get their trials moved to an Inquisition venue."

From https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/16/artsandhumanities.internationaleducationnews
"Cardinal Georges Cottier, a Vatican theologian, said: "You can't ask pardon for deeds which aren't there."
European and North American historians have been searching the archives since a Vatican conference on the Inquisition in 1998.
Their findings support the recent theories of some independent historians that the Spanish Inquisition has been exaggerated into a kind of legend."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Jews by definition cannot be Catholic."

Anonymous may have definitions of "Jew" and "Catholic" in which a person cannot be both. But the Association of Hebrew Catholics exists as an apostolate which has been blessed by Cardinal Raymond Burke among others. See our website at https://hebrewcatholic.net

Mmmmkay but it has not been "blessed" by normative Jews. Call yourself whatever you want, but if you're claiming membership in two groups you have to satisfy the definitions set by both. According to one of these groups, membership in either precludes membership in the other.

Even if you don't recognize that Jesus is the Messiah and G-d in the flesh, assume for the sake of argument that Jesus is the Messiah and G-d in the flesh. Assume that a minority of Jews recognize this, but that the majority of Jews do not. Would the "real" Jews be the majority? Or would the majority have gone off the derech? Answer: both the majority and the minority would be "real" Jews, but the majority would have gone off the derech. If you want to define a "real" Jew as a Pharisee then perhaps you should use the term Pharisaic Jew or Jew who follows Pharisaic teachings.

From Romans 11 (New American Bible Revised at bibleegateway.com):
God’s Irrevocable Call. 25 I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not become wise [in] your own estimation: a hardening has come upon Israel in part, until the full number of the Gentiles comes in, 26 and thus all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The deliverer will come out of Zion,
he will turn away godlessness from Jacob;
27 and this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

28 In respect to the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but in respect to election, they are beloved because of the patriarchs. 29 For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.

Triumph of God’s Mercy. 30 Just as you once disobeyed God but have now received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they have now disobeyed in order that, by virtue of the mercy shown to you, they too may [now] receive mercy. 32 For God delivered all to disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Jews by definition cannot be Catholic."

Anonymous may have definitions of "Jew" and "Catholic" in which a person cannot be both. But the Association of Hebrew Catholics exists as an apostolate which has been blessed by Cardinal Raymond Burke among others. See our website at https://hebrewcatholic.net

Mmmmkay but it has not been "blessed" by normative Jews. Call yourself whatever you want, but if you're claiming membership in two groups you have to satisfy the definitions set by both. According to one of these groups, membership in either precludes membership in the other.

Even if you don't recognize that Jesus is the Messiah and G-d in the flesh, assume for the sake of argument that Jesus is the Messiah and G-d in the flesh. Assume that a minority of Jews recognize this, but that the majority of Jews do not. Would the "real" Jews be the majority? Or would the majority have gone off the derech? Answer: both the majority and the minority would be "real" Jews, but the majority would have gone off the derech. If you want to define a "real" Jew as a Pharisee then perhaps you should use the term Pharisaic Jew or Jew who follows Pharisaic teachings.

From Romans 11 (New American Bible Revised at bibleegateway.com):
God’s Irrevocable Call. 25 I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not become wise [in] your own estimation: a hardening has come upon Israel in part, until the full number of the Gentiles comes in, 26 and thus all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The deliverer will come out of Zion,
he will turn away godlessness from Jacob;
27 and this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

28 In respect to the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but in respect to election, they are beloved because of the patriarchs. 29 For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.

Triumph of God’s Mercy. 30 Just as you once disobeyed God but have now received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they have now disobeyed in order that, by virtue of the mercy shown to you, they too may [now] receive mercy. 32 For God delivered all to disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all."

None of this has anything to do with actual Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Jews by definition cannot be Catholic."

Anonymous may have definitions of "Jew" and "Catholic" in which a person cannot be both. But the Association of Hebrew Catholics exists as an apostolate which has been blessed by Cardinal Raymond Burke among others. See our website at https://hebrewcatholic.net

Mmmmkay but it has not been "blessed" by normative Jews. Call yourself whatever you want, but if you're claiming membership in two groups you have to satisfy the definitions set by both. According to one of these groups, membership in either precludes membership in the other.

Even if you don't recognize that Jesus is the Messiah and G-d in the flesh, assume for the sake of argument that Jesus is the Messiah and G-d in the flesh. Assume that a minority of Jews recognize this, but that the majority of Jews do not. Would the "real" Jews be the majority? Or would the majority have gone off the derech? Answer: both the majority and the minority would be "real" Jews, but the majority would have gone off the derech. If you want to define a "real" Jew as a Pharisee then perhaps you should use the term Pharisaic Jew or Jew who follows Pharisaic teachings.

From Romans 11 (New American Bible Revised at bibleegateway.com):
God’s Irrevocable Call. 25 I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not become wise [in] your own estimation: a hardening has come upon Israel in part, until the full number of the Gentiles comes in, 26 and thus all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The deliverer will come out of Zion,
he will turn away godlessness from Jacob;
27 and this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

28 In respect to the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but in respect to election, they are beloved because of the patriarchs. 29 For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.

Triumph of God’s Mercy. 30 Just as you once disobeyed God but have now received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they have now disobeyed in order that, by virtue of the mercy shown to you, they too may [now] receive mercy. 32 For God delivered all to disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all."

So... the point of all this is that the Catholics who also claim they're Jewish are the real Jews, and the Jews who say it's not compatible with our religion to be both Catholic and Jewish are wrong. Got it.