Hebrew Catholics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, no one will take your love of bagels away from you, but you can't expect to eat them in the company of Jews.

This. I don't think you would count as part of a minyan for saying kaddish or other prayers any longer if you don't identify as religiously Jewish, but no one is going to kick you out of attending services as long as you don't proselytize.

Your identity is your identity. Maybe talk to a rabbi and or other clergy member for some perspective that will be more informed than random internet strangers. Think through who you want surrounding you during lifecycle events and guiding you for end of life moments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A Jew who converts out to another religion is an apostate. They are no longer counted in a minyan or eligible for an Aliyah or full participation in Jewish rituals. In short, OP worshipping at synagogue as a Jew (which was her question) would not be welcome.

This. There are social consequences for conversion, too. A Jew who converts to any form of Christianity has left the Jewish community in every sense.

OP can find people with Jewish ancestry who have grown up without knowledge of or interest in traditional Judaism who don't feel this way, but those people's opinions will not be the normative ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, no one will take your love of bagels away from you, but you can't expect to eat them in the company of Jews.

This. I don't think you would count as part of a minyan for saying kaddish or other prayers any longer if you don't identify as religiously Jewish, but no one is going to kick you out of attending services as long as you don't proselytize.

Your identity is your identity. Maybe talk to a rabbi and or other clergy member for some perspective that will be more informed than random internet strangers. Think through who you want surrounding you during lifecycle events and guiding you for end of life moments.

Actually, if the congregation is aware that someone who has converted to Christianity is attending a service, they should probably ask that person to leave. We have a word for these people: "apostate" Jews in Greek/English, and they have a long tradition of evoking their Jewish backgrounds to attack the Jewish community when they try to curry favor with Christians.

[Anonymous]

I still don't understand why these hypothetical Jews who have converted to Catholicism but still want to go to shul all the time... want to go to shul all the time. (I think in reality, they don't exist, so trying to figure out what their motivation is sort of pointless.)

No one thinks the idea of Jews converting to Catholicism is weird or is uncomfortable with the idea. They are still ethnically Jewish, and now they're also Catholic.

What I think a lot of us are having a hard time wrapping our heads around is why people have gone through the process of converting to Catholicism and embraced a whole other religion would then also have any need to continue to engage RELIGIOUSLY with Judaism. That part doesn't make any sense at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why these hypothetical Jews who have converted to Catholicism but still want to go to shul all the time... want to go to shul all the time. (I think in reality, they don't exist, so trying to figure out what their motivation is sort of pointless.)

No one thinks the idea of Jews converting to Catholicism is weird or is uncomfortable with the idea. They are still ethnically Jewish, and now they're also Catholic.

What I think a lot of us are having a hard time wrapping our heads around is why people have gone through the process of converting to Catholicism and embraced a whole other religion would then also have any need to continue to engage RELIGIOUSLY with Judaism. That part doesn't make any sense at all.

This is simply not true. Jewish culture strongly stigmatizes converts to Christianity and Judaism does not permit any kind of "also" where Christianity is concerned. If you have trouble understanding this, your points of reference are Christian, not Jewish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why these hypothetical Jews who have converted to Catholicism but still want to go to shul all the time... want to go to shul all the time. (I think in reality, they don't exist, so trying to figure out what their motivation is sort of pointless.)

No one thinks the idea of Jews converting to Catholicism is weird or is uncomfortable with the idea. They are still ethnically Jewish, and now they're also Catholic.

What I think a lot of us are having a hard time wrapping our heads around is why people have gone through the process of converting to Catholicism and embraced a whole other religion would then also have any need to continue to engage RELIGIOUSLY with Judaism. That part doesn't make any sense at all.

This is simply not true. Jewish culture strongly stigmatizes converts to Christianity and Judaism does not permit any kind of "also" where Christianity is concerned. If you have trouble understanding this, your points of reference are Christian, not Jewish.

Sorry, I see I garbled what I was trying to say to the PP who thought Jews were the ones being weird here. My point is: None of my fellow Jews think it's INHERENTLY weird for Jews to convert to Catholicism. Yes, it's true that we strongly stigmatize converting away from Judaism, but the problem people have here is not with people who convert to Judaism nor with the idea that Judaism is both an ethnicity and a religion (since that PP seemed to feel we needed to be reminded of how the Nazis viewed us). Those Jews are no longer Jews, but I don't have any problem agreeing that they haven't changed, like, their DNA or their racial heritage.

I think we both agree that there is otherwise no such thing as being a Hebrew Catholic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why these hypothetical Jews who have converted to Catholicism but still want to go to shul all the time... want to go to shul all the time. (I think in reality, they don't exist, so trying to figure out what their motivation is sort of pointless.)

No one thinks the idea of Jews converting to Catholicism is weird or is uncomfortable with the idea. They are still ethnically Jewish, and now they're also Catholic.

What I think a lot of us are having a hard time wrapping our heads around is why people have gone through the process of converting to Catholicism and embraced a whole other religion would then also have any need to continue to engage RELIGIOUSLY with Judaism. That part doesn't make any sense at all.

This is simply not true. Jewish culture strongly stigmatizes converts to Christianity and Judaism does not permit any kind of "also" where Christianity is concerned. If you have trouble understanding this, your points of reference are Christian, not Jewish.

Sorry, I see I garbled what I was trying to say to the PP who thought Jews were the ones being weird here. My point is: None of my fellow Jews think it's INHERENTLY weird for Jews to convert to Catholicism. Yes, it's true that we strongly stigmatize converting away from Judaism, but the problem people have here is not with people who convert to Judaism nor with the idea that Judaism is both an ethnicity and a religion (since that PP seemed to feel we needed to be reminded of how the Nazis viewed us). Those Jews are no longer Jews, but I don't have any problem agreeing that they haven't changed, like, their DNA or their racial heritage.

I think we both agree that there is otherwise no such thing as being a Hebrew Catholic.

Gah, meant convert FROM Judaism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A Jew who joins the Catholic Church is still Jewish. Edith Stein (St. Teresa Benedicta of the Cross) was specifically killed by the Nazis because she was a Catholic Jew (Hebrew Catholic) as were many other Catholic Jews/Hebrew Catholics. A Catholic Jew/Hebrew Catholic can still celebrate Sukkot (remembering the fleeting nature of this life and to honor G-d for taking ancestors out of the desert), Hanukkah (a holiday that is part of the Catholic Bible (1 and 2 Maccabees and John 10:22 (the Festival of Dedication)) and involves celebrating G-d's protecting the Jewish people), Tu B'Shvat (Earth Day), Purim (G-d's protecting the Jewish people), Passover (G-d's liberation of the Jewish people from slavery but with modifications to the seder), Shavuot (receiving the Ten Commandments), Rosh Hashanah (start of the Jewish calendar), and even Yom Kipppur (as a modified Day of Atonement perhaps with confession and a somber day of prayer). Similarly, Shabbat - to honor G-d for creating the World.

To the extent the posters here are representative of the larger Jewish community, that the majority of traditionally observant Jews think it is weird or are uncomfortable with the idea of a Catholic Jew/Hebrew Catholic doesn't mean they are correct.
What matters is whether it is okay in G-d's eyes. What is wrong with any of the above?

Can I ask, are you Jewish?

[Anonymous]

What are you going to Shul for? Is it High Holidays with family, family milestones, or regular attendance? If the latter I think I'd wonder about my conversion and possibly confusion because it makes perfect sense to go as a member of your family, but not otherwise.

[Anonymous]

A lot of old people in this thread who don't understand that civilized people in the 21st Century don't take religion so seriously.

Old people can be forgiven their old ignorant ways, but young people who take religion seriously as use the words like "apostate" are always coming from a wrong direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of old people in this thread who don't understand that civilized people in the 21st Century don't take religion so seriously.

Old people can be forgiven their old ignorant ways, but young people who take religion seriously as use the words like "apostate" are always coming from a wrong direction.

This comment is about 30 years out of date--it's the direction that poorly informed wishful progressives thought things would go. Take a look at the demographics of people taking religion seriously. The world is not getting less religious. The solution is not to mock religious devotion, it is to find ways for devoted followers of many religions to live together in harmony.

[Anonymous]

Interesting discussion here from sort of the opposite end of the discussion, on whether and to what extent a Jewish convert to Christianity remains bound by the Law.

https://www.quora.com/Does-Christianity-hold-that-converts-from-Judaism-still-have-to-keep-the-Law

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting discussion here from sort of the opposite end of the discussion, on whether and to what extent a Jewish convert to Christianity remains bound by the Law.

https://www.quora.com/Does-Christianity-hold-that-converts-from-Judaism-still-have-to-keep-the-Law

All that link does is prove that anybody can type shit into the internet. Very, very, very, very minority views (within Christianity) are being put forward there.

[Anonymous]

Historically, most conversion was forced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of old people in this thread who don't understand that civilized people in the 21st Century don't take religion so seriously.

Old people can be forgiven their old ignorant ways, but young people who take religion seriously as use the words like "apostate" are always coming from a wrong direction.

Religious people (of any age) tend to take religion serious. And if someone went so far as to convert to another religion, as OP has done, then it should be safe to assume they take religion seriously as well.