If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?

[Anonymous]

For the poster who said to wait and let the son decide, I brought that up and DH was not for it, saying it would cause more pain when DS is older. We haven't come to a solution as we both feel strongly. Whatever decision we make, I hope we do so respectfully and neither one feels resentful.

For those mentioning STD, infection and other health rates in other countries compared to the U.S., can you post links to support these claims?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
That may be true. I'm an American mom of an American son, though, so we made our decision based on the practices and practitioners here.

I'm the pp you quoted. What a calm and rational response, thanks -- makes sense to me.

It is certainly possible to find practitioners who don't leap to circumcision, however, its somewhat ridiculous that there are many pediatricians who do still retract uncirced boys, or advise retraction and cleaning, etc. Its unfortunate that its something one has to accept as a possibility should they make that choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In almost all cases it doesn't matter either way.

I personally know three men who had to be circumcised as adults and no boys or men who have had botched circumcisions, so we chose to circumcise. I asked my OB and other doctor friends and all leaned toward circumcision. It went fine.

And if those men lived in many other countries, they probably would have been treated without circumcision just fine. We jump to it very quickly, in part because the functions of the foreskin are not known or valued in our society with a high adult circ rate.

ALL HAIL GREAT FORESKIN.

I value you!

WTF please...

[Anonymous]

And yet your sarcastic comment implies that you yourself have no understanding of the physiological purpose and function of the foreskin.

It dramatically affects both the physiology of intercourse and of masturbation.

Significant sensitivity is also lost:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17378847
(you can read the full study if you google the title)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Europe is always behind in medicine because they have systems that are not quick to pay for new advances.

Typical case of American ignorant arrogance.

[Anonymous]

For all those touting the alleged health benefits, read this:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/03/12/peds.2012-2896.full.pdf+html

Should be required reading for anyone considering circumcising their newborn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the poster who said to wait and let the son decide, I brought that up and DH was not for it, saying it would cause more pain when DS is older. We haven't come to a solution as we both feel strongly. Whatever decision we make, I hope we do so respectfully and neither one feels resentful.

For those mentioning STD, infection and other health rates in other countries compared to the U.S., can you post links to support these claims?

Although I think there are (sometimes) notable differences between female and male circumcision, the cultural and psychological forces can be quite similar. Men instantly feel as if something is wrong with their own body if they do not carry this tradition on with their son. However, from my experience with new families, quite often if the mother refuses and the son is left whole, the father very quickly gets past his ego-issues, and comes to recognize that his son is perfectly fine being left intact.

To you mothers, you are your sons protectors. You have the power to ensure that your son stays whole, regardless of how angry your DH seems to be in the moment. It is very simple - don't sign the consent form. After wards, make a mental note, and if at one year your DH is still upset about it and/or can make some clear rational arguments about why it is still necessary, than you could revisit the possibility. My guess though is that by one year your DH would be horrified (as you will be) at the thought of changing your son's penis for "cultural" reasons. In fact, I have never met a family where the father remained resentful that his son was intact; while I have met several mothers who deeply regret being "bullied" into having their sons circumcised.

Remember, if you leave your son intact then he can always be cut. If you cut him at birth, there is never any other option. If DH is worried that the son would not want it done later in life, then perhaps that is an excellent reason to leave the child intact for now. The boy himself can decide later in life if the reasons become compelling enough to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all those touting the alleged health benefits, read this:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/03/12/peds.2012-2896.full.pdf+html

Should be required reading for anyone considering circumcising their newborn.

Thanks for posting this, I agree it should be required reading. People like to hide behind "health issues" as a reason they are choosing to cut; yet if you were to ask them if they would still have their son cut even if no other boy in the country was cut, they would not want it done. Really, behind any alleged health issue is a deep desire to "fit in" from a cultural standpoint. The more boys left intact, the more it will shift this cultural norm and we will see in future generations the end of routine genital mutilation of our boys.

Also, it is always interesting to me that the people who tout the health issues, never are able to articulate the benefits and functions of the foreskin. In the case of medical professionals, they have never been taught that there is any benefit at all of having a foreskin, so they only see it as an unnecessary and potentially harmful body part. Why not get rid of it? I believe that any conversation about circumcision must always include the purpose, benefits and anatomy of the foreskin as well as a deeper understanding of the risks of circumcision and how to properly care for the foreskin so the man doesn't wind up with an unnecessary circumcision later in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only sensible person in the thread says....

Anonymous wrote:As a doula, I've had women literally sobbing in my arms because they allowed their sons to be circumcised (against their better judgement). I think there is quite a difference between a mom who "would rather not but is okay with doing it" and the mom who truly does not want it done, but agrees to, only to try to keep peace in the house. A close friend of mine is SO bitter and resentful and it has nearly caused a divorce for them; she cannot forgive her husband or herself, and her son is five. In her case, the healing process was difficult and her son needed revision surgeries, which is rare but definitely fueled her anger.

The only path that does not force spouses to choose between two opposing viewpoints is to agree to let the boy decide for himself. Accept that you and your husband have dramatically different beliefs and allow each one to share that perspective as the boy matures, and encourage him to make a decision for himself when he reaches adulthood.

I realize there is a lot talk about how much easier it is to do as a baby, but that is not actually medically true. In reality, an adult (or even older child) circumcision is easier because 1. the boy/man receives general anesthesia during the procedure and can fully self-medicate as needed afterwards; and 2. in an adult, because the penis is fully grown and the foreskin is already retractable, there is no "guessing" as to the correct amount to be removed, thus reducing complications such as tight erections or skin bridges. It also removes the need to forcibly separate the foreskin from the penis, which in an infant circumcision can sometimes cause scarring or other damage such as metal stenosis. Yes, a grown man does have to face the psychological and cultural drama of (potentially) having penile surgery, but at least he can be fully informed, get proper pain relief, and make the decision for himself. Perhaps your husband would be willing to approach the matter in this way?

Um, anyone who thinks that a procedure requiring general anesthesia is "medically" easier than one that doesn't is not sensible. They're dangerously uninformed. There are plenty of arguments against circumcision, sure, but that's not one of them.

It's amazing how otherwise intelligent people can so easily accept that a surgery which requires general anesthesia for an adult, magically "doesn't hurt that much" for a baby. Since, as you correctly point out, general anesthesia brings certain (albeit quite rare) medical risks, wouldn't the safest thing by far be to just give an adult the same simple numbing cream we give babies? If it works for the pain, it works for the pain! (yes, I'm being sarcastic here.)

At any rate, aside from the potential risk of the anesthesia, the surgery itself is easier in an adult for the reasons I stated. There is far less of a chance of an accident of the glans, far less of a chance of taking off too much or too little of the skin, and no damage due to the forced separation of foreskin (as an adult it is already retractable). Additionally, an adult can properly medicate afterwards as well as provide feedback regarding any developing infection. Last but not least, an adult would already know if they have a blood clotting disorder. Unfortunately for some babies, their circumcision is the first time they've been cut, and at one or two days old, even loosing an ounce of blood equals a life-threatening hemorrhage. Babies can and do die every year in our country as a result of their non-medically indicated circumcision. But hey, what's a little death-risk in order to make sure his penis looks pretty?!

I never said it "doesn't hurt that much" for a baby. When our son was circumcised, it was under local anesthesia, and we gave him Tylenol afterwards. Pain-free, no. But did we manage his pain? Yes, we did.

The risks of complications from circumcision are incredibly rare. And death? I looked up the stats: it's something like 100 babies die each year from related complications, out of one *million* who have the procedure annually in the US. So I'd say that speaks to the overwhelming safety of the procedure, especially when done by an experienced pediatric surgeon, as we did.

You don't want to circumcise your son? Then don't. No one's forcing you to. The amount of energy you're expending over other people's legitimate choices is mind-boggling.

This is pretty funny, given how hysterical DCUMers become over other newborn risks. Consider the amount of angst women display over things like Pertussis, flu, drop side cribs and crib bumpers. You realize that circumcision kills more newborn babies per year than all of these other things combined? Yet, you find all the DCUmers who are willing to refuse grandparents the right to see their baby if they won't get a DTAP and others who want to report to CPS those families who they see not using a car seat once. Amazing then, how with a surgery that is cosmetic in nature and absolutely unnecessary and 100% avoidable - and actually KILLS and maims newborn babies - you have DCUMers saying "hey, it's my choice and you should just shut up and let me do what I want." Totally bizarre.

As an aside, how do you know you managed his pain? He wasn't able to tell you, you know. Do you think an adult male would be satisfied with taking a tylenol after the procedure? For the record, I don't actually think "it hurts" is the most compelling reason we should not be circumcising our newborns; there are plenty of other reasons not to do it. But yes, it does hurt and we really aren't able to assess exactly how much. Though the few studies which have been done actually demonstrate excruciating pain to the point that some babies go into shock. Yahoo! Welcome to the world, little one! Glad your daddy will now be satisfied with the appearance of your penis!

+1000. this post should be compulsory reading for anyone considering circumcision.

[Anonymous]

There are pros and cons to it but ultimately its your and your husbands decision. If you choose not to get your son circumcised, please be sure to have a good cleaning routine. If it is not cleaned properly, it can cause infection/ fusion of foreskin which happened to our nephew and he had to be circumcised at 10 years old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are pros and cons to it but ultimately its your and your husbands decision. If you choose not to get your son circumcised, please be sure to have a good cleaning routine. If it is not cleaned properly, it can cause infection/ fusion of foreskin which happened to our nephew and he had to be circumcised at 10 years old.

Most likely your nephews circumcision was unnecessary. Over cleaning and forced retraction actually cause a lot of problems in young boys, and leads to the very conditions which later require surgery to fix.

The penis in its natural state is very similar to the vagina in its natural state; ie it is "self cleaning." No need for manipulation, heavy scrubbing or strong soaps. Gentle rinsing in the bathtub suffices.

Yes, you are correct that proper cleaning results in a healthy body. In this case, proper cleaning means "leave it alone and wipe the outside like you would a finger." Remember that men all throughout the world, including places who wash far less than Americans do, have healthy penises.

American doctors also tend to be woefully misinformed about a natural penis. They think that things like smegma, ballooning, or adhesions indicate a problem (they don't). They don't seem to recognize that some boys won't be fully retractable until their mid-teens. Even then, if there is a true problem, it can often be treated without amputation. In countries where circumcision is not standard, full amputation is almost never necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Actually I found your post helpful. These are all good things to think about. On one hand, I don't want my child to be denied the opportunity for a bar mitzvah. or a jewish wedding. On the other hand, I resent the idea that I'd have to cut off part of my child's body in order for him to participate in these rites of passage. I'd ideally like to find a jewish community (Humanistic perhaps?) that would accept him and us regardless of what his penis looks like, and that would place priority on the many other ways that we are committed to Judaism. I'm not sure if such a community exists -- we are exploring that and will be meeting with some rabbis, and I will ask him about some of the things you mention, as they are good to think about.

There are PLENTY of Jewish communities that will accept him, especially reform synagogues. Check with the rabbis at Temple Micah in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Actually I found your post helpful. These are all good things to think about. On one hand, I don't want my child to be denied the opportunity for a bar mitzvah. or a jewish wedding. On the other hand, I resent the idea that I'd have to cut off part of my child's body in order for him to participate in these rites of passage. I'd ideally like to find a jewish community (Humanistic perhaps?) that would accept him and us regardless of what his penis looks like, and that would place priority on the many other ways that we are committed to Judaism. I'm not sure if such a community exists -- we are exploring that and will be meeting with some rabbis, and I will ask him about some of the things you mention, as they are good to think about.

There are PLENTY of Jewish communities that will accept him, especially reform synagogues. Check with the rabbis at Temple Micah in DC.

This is true. He may run into problems outside of reform Judiasm though. But if your family is reform and you are comfortable with your decision then it's made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the poster who said to wait and let the son decide, I brought that up and DH was not for it, saying it would cause more pain when DS is older. We haven't come to a solution as we both feel strongly. Whatever decision we make, I hope we do so respectfully and neither one feels resentful.

For those mentioning STD, infection and other health rates in other countries compared to the U.S., can you post links to support these claims?

I had a friend who wasn't circumcised as a baby and wanted to get circumcised at 20; I don't think he enjoyed it (and I'm sure neither do babies) but it was his choice to do and it is done if your son chooses at a later point to do, he can do. Sharing this anecdote in case it provides more support for the letting him chooser argument.

[Anonymous]

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