Why is everything so mediocre around me?(Warning: long rambling post)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a first grader. I’m curious with the math discussion above. Here’s what DS7 brought home in his most recent unit assessment. What do you think, DCUM? To me this seems more like a test of reading and following directions, not a math skills test. What 7 or 8 year old doesn’t know what a triangle or rectangle is?

Q1 (Given: page full of shapes)
1. Color the triangles purple
2. Color the hexagon green
3. Color the rhombuses red
4. Color the rectangles orange

Q2 Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

Q3 draw a shape with 4 corners and 4 sides that are all the same length. What is the name of your shape?

Q4 (similar to Q1)
Put a circle around the cube.
Draw a red line under the cylinder.

Sounds like first grade in FCPS. In second grade they finally introduce a few 3D shapes.

This is an example of people who don't understand teaching pedagogy getting mad that the homework is "too simple" because you don't understand what it is trying to teach. Let's just take one of the questions here:

Q2: Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

So you look at this and say omg what first grader doesn't know the difference between a triangle and a circle, and conclude it's remedial. But you miss that this question is not just asking a child to identify a circle and a triangle. It's presenting a falsehood (Sara says the circle is a triangle) and prompting the child to explain WHY it is false. The goal is for the child to identify the differences between a triangle and a circle in a way that a younger child would probably lack the vocabulary and reasoning skills to do. A weak answer to this question is "because it is a circle." A good answer is "because it is round with one side, and a triangle has three flat sides" or "because it doesn't have any corners." The goal is to get children to start thinking about the properties of different shapes and how they are different or similar, in preparation for more advanced geometry where they will learn the words for those properties as well as how to measure them.

Notice in Q3 that a child could draw a square but could also draw a rhombus without 90 degree angles, but a rectangle would be incorrect. That is nuance that many 1st graders have not mastered.

This is where parents often struggle with "new math." There is an emphasis on deeper understanding at an earlier age, and it comes off as remedial because most adults are used to early grade math where you are memorizing math facts and the goal is to produce the correct math fact when prompted. But this worksheet is asking the child to demonstrate understanding of math facts and use reasoning to language to do so. It's more advanced than the work I did in 1st grade math. If mastered, it will set a kid up to do more complex math by late elementary and middle school, because a child who performs this worksheet perfectly will have demonstrated a deeper mastery of geometric concepts than simply identifying a shape by sight.

And who, exactly, is teaching the kids these deep mastery concepts? Because they aren't being taught. When my kids are asked to explain their thinking - which is often - with worksheets like this we usually have to go to Khan Academy, get the 3 minute video that directly explains the concept clearly, and then the kid can explain Sal Khan's explanation as their thinking. And yeah, then they get it sure.

I'm have no problems with the new math. I understand it just fine. I have a problem with how it's typically taught. There's a big difference between, say, Singapore Math which often uses new math concepts, and the way FCPS teachers expect "inquiry" to give deep understanding after a mere five minute intro to a topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s wrong with waiting? They will know how to spell my elementary and middle school and then grammar and sentence structure will be taught over and over again.

Waiting to correct errors reinforces incorrect spelling and incorrect grammar in DC’s head. They then have to un-learn those erroneous habits to learn correct spelling and grammar. It makes it harder on both students and teachers, and leads to less successful outcomes for many students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a first grader. I’m curious with the math discussion above. Here’s what DS7 brought home in his most recent unit assessment. What do you think, DCUM? To me this seems more like a test of reading and following directions, not a math skills test. What 7 or 8 year old doesn’t know what a triangle or rectangle is?

Q1 (Given: page full of shapes)
1. Color the triangles purple
2. Color the hexagon green
3. Color the rhombuses red
4. Color the rectangles orange

Q2 Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

Q3 draw a shape with 4 corners and 4 sides that are all the same length. What is the name of your shape?

Q4 (similar to Q1)
Put a circle around the cube.
Draw a red line under the cylinder.

Seems similar to my 1st grader. I think these exercises help establish that a shape has a name that can be spelled out and a shape has a definition that makes it true. Khan has some great lessons on I believe. My kid is a stickler for rules so he loved learning the difference between a square, rhombus, parallelogram, rectangle, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a first grader. I’m curious with the math discussion above. Here’s what DS7 brought home in his most recent unit assessment. What do you think, DCUM? To me this seems more like a test of reading and following directions, not a math skills test. What 7 or 8 year old doesn’t know what a triangle or rectangle is?

Q1 (Given: page full of shapes)
1. Color the triangles purple
2. Color the hexagon green
3. Color the rhombuses red
4. Color the rectangles orange

Q2 Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

Q3 draw a shape with 4 corners and 4 sides that are all the same length. What is the name of your shape?

Q4 (similar to Q1)
Put a circle around the cube.
Draw a red line under the cylinder.

Seems similar to my 1st grader. I think these exercises help establish that a shape has a name that can be spelled out and a shape has a definition that makes it true. Khan has some great lessons on I believe. My kid is a stickler for rules so he loved learning the difference between a square, rhombus, parallelogram, rectangle, etc.

+1 sets them up for geometry, area and volume calculations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I have a kid who underachieves and I am far from a tiger mom. But yes - what you are learning is that public school education is BAD no matter how fancy the school district. Based on conversations with relatives in coveted public districts, I do think you start to see more value in middle school. For example I visited Westland Ms and the orchestra sounded amazing.

You may also want to move to an area with more Asian families.

You are a racist and people like you will only be friendly with other Asians.

Yet white people never have a problem with only having white friends...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a first grader. I’m curious with the math discussion above. Here’s what DS7 brought home in his most recent unit assessment. What do you think, DCUM? To me this seems more like a test of reading and following directions, not a math skills test. What 7 or 8 year old doesn’t know what a triangle or rectangle is?

Q1 (Given: page full of shapes)
1. Color the triangles purple
2. Color the hexagon green
3. Color the rhombuses red
4. Color the rectangles orange

Q2 Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

Q3 draw a shape with 4 corners and 4 sides that are all the same length. What is the name of your shape?

Q4 (similar to Q1)
Put a circle around the cube.
Draw a red line under the cylinder.

Sounds like first grade in FCPS. In second grade they finally introduce a few 3D shapes.

This is an example of people who don't understand teaching pedagogy getting mad that the homework is "too simple" because you don't understand what it is trying to teach. Let's just take one of the questions here:

Q2: Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

So you look at this and say omg what first grader doesn't know the difference between a triangle and a circle, and conclude it's remedial. But you miss that this question is not just asking a child to identify a circle and a triangle. It's presenting a falsehood (Sara says the circle is a triangle) and prompting the child to explain WHY it is false. The goal is for the child to identify the differences between a triangle and a circle in a way that a younger child would probably lack the vocabulary and reasoning skills to do. A weak answer to this question is "because it is a circle." A good answer is "because it is round with one side, and a triangle has three flat sides" or "because it doesn't have any corners." The goal is to get children to start thinking about the properties of different shapes and how they are different or similar, in preparation for more advanced geometry where they will learn the words for those properties as well as how to measure them.

Notice in Q3 that a child could draw a square but could also draw a rhombus without 90 degree angles, but a rectangle would be incorrect. That is nuance that many 1st graders have not mastered.

This is where parents often struggle with "new math." There is an emphasis on deeper understanding at an earlier age, and it comes off as remedial because most adults are used to early grade math where you are memorizing math facts and the goal is to produce the correct math fact when prompted. But this worksheet is asking the child to demonstrate understanding of math facts and use reasoning to language to do so. It's more advanced than the work I did in 1st grade math. If mastered, it will set a kid up to do more complex math by late elementary and middle school, because a child who performs this worksheet perfectly will have demonstrated a deeper mastery of geometric concepts than simply identifying a shape by sight.

And who, exactly, is teaching the kids these deep mastery concepts? Because they aren't being taught. When my kids are asked to explain their thinking - which is often - with worksheets like this we usually have to go to Khan Academy, get the 3 minute video that directly explains the concept clearly, and then the kid can explain Sal Khan's explanation as their thinking. And yeah, then they get it sure.

I'm have no problems with the new math. I understand it just fine. I have a problem with how it's typically taught. There's a big difference between, say, Singapore Math which often uses new math concepts, and the way FCPS teachers expect "inquiry" to give deep understanding after a mere five minute intro to a topic.

PP here. My child's 1st grade teacher is absolutely teaching these concepts in class. I know she is asking the right questions and guiding kids towards this level of thinking because I see it when I work with my child at home. I am sure it sinks in for some kids and not for others, depending both on natural aptitude and other factors like attention span and a child's readiness for school generally (many children are distract and unfocused at school, for a wide variety of reasons).

If there is something she isn't getting, then *I* can talk it through with her, which is my job as her parent in supporting her education. I could also enlist a tutoring program but I personally have not found that to be necessary. If you want to send your kid to Kahn Academy for this, go ahead.

The point is, this worksheet was posted in the thread of how remedial a first grader's work is, and it doesn't show that. Another poster called it "Sesame Street level." Well, one, Sesame Street is a pretty good show and actually does encourage preschool age kids to start thinking critically about stuff like the properties of shapes. But two, it's obvious to me that the worksheet in question is asking a first grader to do grade-appropriate work, including the ability to both understand AND explain the properties of different shapes.

Some of y'all want it both ways. You'll dismiss work that seems to "easy" because you want your kids doing algebra in 1st grade (mostly for bragging rights, I believe), but then when it is pointed out that this "easy" work is meant to ensure kids have deep knowledge of fundamental concepts, you're yelling about how no one is teaching it. But it is being taught, by teachers, in public schools. Some kids aren't getting it because they are not getting the preparation and support they need at home in order to get it. And meanwhile we have a bunch of competitive, overbearing parents who want to complain that it's not challenging enough. What are teachers supposed to do? This is the curriculum. It is age appropriate and sufficiently challenging, and will lay a strong foundation for future work. Support your kids in learning it. Stop whining that it's not advanced enough when you can't even accurately identify how advanced it actually is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a first grader. I’m curious with the math discussion above. Here’s what DS7 brought home in his most recent unit assessment. What do you think, DCUM? To me this seems more like a test of reading and following directions, not a math skills test. What 7 or 8 year old doesn’t know what a triangle or rectangle is?

Q1 (Given: page full of shapes)
1. Color the triangles purple
2. Color the hexagon green
3. Color the rhombuses red
4. Color the rectangles orange

Q2 Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

Q3 draw a shape with 4 corners and 4 sides that are all the same length. What is the name of your shape?

Q4 (similar to Q1)
Put a circle around the cube.
Draw a red line under the cylinder.

Sounds like first grade in FCPS. In second grade they finally introduce a few 3D shapes.

This is an example of people who don't understand teaching pedagogy getting mad that the homework is "too simple" because you don't understand what it is trying to teach. Let's just take one of the questions here:

Q2: Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

So you look at this and say omg what first grader doesn't know the difference between a triangle and a circle, and conclude it's remedial. But you miss that this question is not just asking a child to identify a circle and a triangle. It's presenting a falsehood (Sara says the circle is a triangle) and prompting the child to explain WHY it is false. The goal is for the child to identify the differences between a triangle and a circle in a way that a younger child would probably lack the vocabulary and reasoning skills to do. A weak answer to this question is "because it is a circle." A good answer is "because it is round with one side, and a triangle has three flat sides" or "because it doesn't have any corners." The goal is to get children to start thinking about the properties of different shapes and how they are different or similar, in preparation for more advanced geometry where they will learn the words for those properties as well as how to measure them.

Notice in Q3 that a child could draw a square but could also draw a rhombus without 90 degree angles, but a rectangle would be incorrect. That is nuance that many 1st graders have not mastered.

This is where parents often struggle with "new math." There is an emphasis on deeper understanding at an earlier age, and it comes off as remedial because most adults are used to early grade math where you are memorizing math facts and the goal is to produce the correct math fact when prompted. But this worksheet is asking the child to demonstrate understanding of math facts and use reasoning to language to do so. It's more advanced than the work I did in 1st grade math. If mastered, it will set a kid up to do more complex math by late elementary and middle school, because a child who performs this worksheet perfectly will have demonstrated a deeper mastery of geometric concepts than simply identifying a shape by sight.

And who, exactly, is teaching the kids these deep mastery concepts? Because they aren't being taught. When my kids are asked to explain their thinking - which is often - with worksheets like this we usually have to go to Khan Academy, get the 3 minute video that directly explains the concept clearly, and then the kid can explain Sal Khan's explanation as their thinking. And yeah, then they get it sure.

I'm have no problems with the new math. I understand it just fine. I have a problem with how it's typically taught. There's a big difference between, say, Singapore Math which often uses new math concepts, and the way FCPS teachers expect "inquiry" to give deep understanding after a mere five minute intro to a topic.

PP here. My child's 1st grade teacher is absolutely teaching these concepts in class. I know she is asking the right questions and guiding kids towards this level of thinking because I see it when I work with my child at home. I am sure it sinks in for some kids and not for others, depending both on natural aptitude and other factors like attention span and a child's readiness for school generally (many children are distract and unfocused at school, for a wide variety of reasons).

If there is something she isn't getting, then *I* can talk it through with her, which is my job as her parent in supporting her education. I could also enlist a tutoring program but I personally have not found that to be necessary. If you want to send your kid to Kahn Academy for this, go ahead.

The point is, this worksheet was posted in the thread of how remedial a first grader's work is, and it doesn't show that. Another poster called it "Sesame Street level." Well, one, Sesame Street is a pretty good show and actually does encourage preschool age kids to start thinking critically about stuff like the properties of shapes. But two, it's obvious to me that the worksheet in question is asking a first grader to do grade-appropriate work, including the ability to both understand AND explain the properties of different shapes.

Some of y'all want it both ways. You'll dismiss work that seems to "easy" because you want your kids doing algebra in 1st grade (mostly for bragging rights, I believe), but then when it is pointed out that this "easy" work is meant to ensure kids have deep knowledge of fundamental concepts, you're yelling about how no one is teaching it. But it is being taught, by teachers, in public schools. Some kids aren't getting it because they are not getting the preparation and support they need at home in order to get it. And meanwhile we have a bunch of competitive, overbearing parents who want to complain that it's not challenging enough. What are teachers supposed to do? This is the curriculum. It is age appropriate and sufficiently challenging, and will lay a strong foundation for future work. Support your kids in learning it. Stop whining that it's not advanced enough when you can't even accurately identify how advanced it actually is.

PP here. You're making an awful lot of assumptions about the parenting of everyone else. Maybe when you have older kids, like some of us, you won't do that so much.

I am glad (really) that your kid's teacher is awesome and you feel comfortable talking her through things. That's going to set her up well in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I have a kid who underachieves and I am far from a tiger mom. But yes - what you are learning is that public school education is BAD no matter how fancy the school district. Based on conversations with relatives in coveted public districts, I do think you start to see more value in middle school. For example I visited Westland Ms and the orchestra sounded amazing.

You may also want to move to an area with more Asian families.

You are a racist and people like you will only be friendly with other Asians.

Yet white people never have a problem with only having white friends...

It’s a White majority country. You have to go out of your way not to be friends with White people in America. But Asians are a tiny minority, so if all of your friends are only Asian, you’re specifically excluding people on account of their race, which is racist. What’s especially annoying about it is you’ve chosen to come here and then all you can do is complain about it. Why not just stay in your Asian native land if it is so perfect and the people are so smart and the education is so superior? Go back, no one will miss you.

—signed an immigrant who hates where I can from and loves everything about America and Americans, which is why I’m here and not there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a first grader. I’m curious with the math discussion above. Here’s what DS7 brought home in his most recent unit assessment. What do you think, DCUM? To me this seems more like a test of reading and following directions, not a math skills test. What 7 or 8 year old doesn’t know what a triangle or rectangle is?

Q1 (Given: page full of shapes)
1. Color the triangles purple
2. Color the hexagon green
3. Color the rhombuses red
4. Color the rectangles orange

Q2 Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

Q3 draw a shape with 4 corners and 4 sides that are all the same length. What is the name of your shape?

Q4 (similar to Q1)
Put a circle around the cube.
Draw a red line under the cylinder.

Sounds like first grade in FCPS. In second grade they finally introduce a few 3D shapes.

This is an example of people who don't understand teaching pedagogy getting mad that the homework is "too simple" because you don't understand what it is trying to teach. Let's just take one of the questions here:

Q2: Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

So you look at this and say omg what first grader doesn't know the difference between a triangle and a circle, and conclude it's remedial. But you miss that this question is not just asking a child to identify a circle and a triangle. It's presenting a falsehood (Sara says the circle is a triangle) and prompting the child to explain WHY it is false. The goal is for the child to identify the differences between a triangle and a circle in a way that a younger child would probably lack the vocabulary and reasoning skills to do. A weak answer to this question is "because it is a circle." A good answer is "because it is round with one side, and a triangle has three flat sides" or "because it doesn't have any corners." The goal is to get children to start thinking about the properties of different shapes and how they are different or similar, in preparation for more advanced geometry where they will learn the words for those properties as well as how to measure them.

Notice in Q3 that a child could draw a square but could also draw a rhombus without 90 degree angles, but a rectangle would be incorrect. That is nuance that many 1st graders have not mastered.

This is where parents often struggle with "new math." There is an emphasis on deeper understanding at an earlier age, and it comes off as remedial because most adults are used to early grade math where you are memorizing math facts and the goal is to produce the correct math fact when prompted. But this worksheet is asking the child to demonstrate understanding of math facts and use reasoning to language to do so. It's more advanced than the work I did in 1st grade math. If mastered, it will set a kid up to do more complex math by late elementary and middle school, because a child who performs this worksheet perfectly will have demonstrated a deeper mastery of geometric concepts than simply identifying a shape by sight.

And who, exactly, is teaching the kids these deep mastery concepts? Because they aren't being taught. When my kids are asked to explain their thinking - which is often - with worksheets like this we usually have to go to Khan Academy, get the 3 minute video that directly explains the concept clearly, and then the kid can explain Sal Khan's explanation as their thinking. And yeah, then they get it sure.

I'm have no problems with the new math. I understand it just fine. I have a problem with how it's typically taught. There's a big difference between, say, Singapore Math which often uses new math concepts, and the way FCPS teachers expect "inquiry" to give deep understanding after a mere five minute intro to a topic.

PP here. My child's 1st grade teacher is absolutely teaching these concepts in class. I know she is asking the right questions and guiding kids towards this level of thinking because I see it when I work with my child at home. I am sure it sinks in for some kids and not for others, depending both on natural aptitude and other factors like attention span and a child's readiness for school generally (many children are distract and unfocused at school, for a wide variety of reasons).

If there is something she isn't getting, then *I* can talk it through with her, which is my job as her parent in supporting her education. I could also enlist a tutoring program but I personally have not found that to be necessary. If you want to send your kid to Kahn Academy for this, go ahead.

The point is, this worksheet was posted in the thread of how remedial a first grader's work is, and it doesn't show that. Another poster called it "Sesame Street level." Well, one, Sesame Street is a pretty good show and actually does encourage preschool age kids to start thinking critically about stuff like the properties of shapes. But two, it's obvious to me that the worksheet in question is asking a first grader to do grade-appropriate work, including the ability to both understand AND explain the properties of different shapes.

Some of y'all want it both ways. You'll dismiss work that seems to "easy" because you want your kids doing algebra in 1st grade (mostly for bragging rights, I believe), but then when it is pointed out that this "easy" work is meant to ensure kids have deep knowledge of fundamental concepts, you're yelling about how no one is teaching it. But it is being taught, by teachers, in public schools. Some kids aren't getting it because they are not getting the preparation and support they need at home in order to get it. And meanwhile we have a bunch of competitive, overbearing parents who want to complain that it's not challenging enough. What are teachers supposed to do? This is the curriculum. It is age appropriate and sufficiently challenging, and will lay a strong foundation for future work. Support your kids in learning it. Stop whining that it's not advanced enough when you can't even accurately identify how advanced it actually is.

I am the person who posted the 1st grade math examples above. I wasn't whining that it wasn't advanced, I posted it so people could weigh in on the assessment and tell me if that's the kind of thing they are seeing in 1st grade. Personally, I thought the worksheet really tested reading and following directions, which my child struggled with in Kindergarten. I have been telling him to slow down and read the directions, to make sure he knows what the question is actually asking. I think that is a big part of math, with learning word problems, having to explain your work, etc.

The assessment comes from an inquiry based curriculum, according to what my school admin has said. I have no idea how much time they spend on teaching the concepts, but probably enough, based on DS's scores and how he is able to explain the problems to me. The teacher does assignment math homework, so I assume class time is spend with questions/discussion/explanations while the "drilling" and practice happens with homework. I don't think it has to be either/or.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a first grader. I’m curious with the math discussion above. Here’s what DS7 brought home in his most recent unit assessment. What do you think, DCUM? To me this seems more like a test of reading and following directions, not a math skills test. What 7 or 8 year old doesn’t know what a triangle or rectangle is?

Q1 (Given: page full of shapes)
1. Color the triangles purple
2. Color the hexagon green
3. Color the rhombuses red
4. Color the rectangles orange

Q2 Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

Q3 draw a shape with 4 corners and 4 sides that are all the same length. What is the name of your shape?

Q4 (similar to Q1)
Put a circle around the cube.
Draw a red line under the cylinder.

Sounds like first grade in FCPS. In second grade they finally introduce a few 3D shapes.

They have started 3D shapes too. This was from an assessment of the unit they've already learned. Like an end of unit test. I'll be honest, I still don't really know what a rhombus or trapezoid is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find where high achieving immigrants hang out. Seriously - RSM classes, private music teachers, etc. Your kid will at least know another peer group with higher expectations.

Yeah this. I find the standards of high income wasp types are sort of mediocre regarding academics and music.

-
Raised by immigrants

I was raised by immigrants and I see things really differently. I think immigrants pound the creativity out of their children with rote memorization. I think Wasps recognize that not everyone is a genius and no amount of pressure or forced math practice is going to turn their mediocre child into one. I think Wasps realize the point of learning piano is to have a fun hobby and sometimes play a song for your friends at get togethers throughout the course of your life, not to impress your mom’s friends or foster her delusion that you have a chance to play professionally at Carnegie Hall.

I think Wasps actually have a much better handle on how to promote creativity and invention than recent immigrants do. That’s why we wanted to be here and not wherever we came from. And didn’t Anglos invent penicillin, the plane, the computer, the telephone, air conditioning, etc.? I’d say they know what they’re doing, no?

Nope, see who is winning all the innovation awards in USA right now:
https://science-fair.org/2023/11/03/thermo-fisher-scientific-jic-announces-2023-winners/#:~:text=Congratulations%20to%20Adyant%20Bhavsar%2C%2013,version%20of%20a%20triboelectric%20nanogenerator.

https://www.invent.org/collegiate-inventors/finalists

To be smart first you have to have facts pounded in your head at a young age so you understand the basic grammar of each kind of subject and have a solid foundation. Then your creativity will thrive based on what you already knew. In the western world we used to know that until the "education innovators" started ruining everything as early as the 19th century.

Everyone should read this! My kindergartener is praised over and over for "brave spelling" and never gets anything corrected. Some things really do need to be practiced and yes, memorized. Why can't we correct one or two words per assignment or per week for a 6 year old? It's not going to crush a kid's dreams or self worth. This sort of things drives me crazy.

What’s wrong with waiting? They will know how to spell my elementary and middle school and then grammar and sentence structure will be taught over and over again. There are so many more important things to learn at this age. Patience.

Really? My FCPS kids have only ever learned any grammar in a sporadic, haphazard way from Lexia or what I taught them at home (using a homeschool curriculum that is pretty much the opposite of every kind of curriculum FCPS uses). What public school are your kids in where they actually learn spelling, grammar, sentence structure, paragraph formation, and anything other than "just write"?

My 2nd grader in MCPS has a spelling test every Friday (10 words) that she prepares for. They group specific phonemes. So this week its things like "ground, soil, drowsy" etc. They have started with paragraphs and intro/topic sentences for paragraphs. Multiple drafts for a long writing assignment.
I went to MCPS and we diagrammed sentences in 6th grade for parts of speech etc[u]. so it wasn't ES then either.

Ok, but when was this? The 90s? Your average public school is not teaching sentence diagramming these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find where high achieving immigrants hang out. Seriously - RSM classes, private music teachers, etc. Your kid will at least know another peer group with higher expectations.

Yeah this. I find the standards of high income wasp types are sort of mediocre regarding academics and music.

-
Raised by immigrants

I was raised by immigrants and I see things really differently. I think immigrants pound the creativity out of their children with rote memorization. I think Wasps recognize that not everyone is a genius and no amount of pressure or forced math practice is going to turn their mediocre child into one. I think Wasps realize the point of learning piano is to have a fun hobby and sometimes play a song for your friends at get togethers throughout the course of your life, not to impress your mom’s friends or foster her delusion that you have a chance to play professionally at Carnegie Hall.

I think Wasps actually have a much better handle on how to promote creativity and invention than recent immigrants do. That’s why we wanted to be here and not wherever we came from. And didn’t Anglos invent penicillin, the plane, the computer, the telephone, air conditioning, etc.? I’d say they know what they’re doing, no?

Nope, see who is winning all the innovation awards in USA right now:
https://science-fair.org/2023/11/03/thermo-fisher-scientific-jic-announces-2023-winners/#:~:text=Congratulations%20to%20Adyant%20Bhavsar%2C%2013,version%20of%20a%20triboelectric%20nanogenerator.

https://www.invent.org/collegiate-inventors/finalists

To be smart first you have to have facts pounded in your head at a young age so you understand the basic grammar of each kind of subject and have a solid foundation. Then your creativity will thrive based on what you already knew. In the western world we used to know that until the "education innovators" started ruining everything as early as the 19th century.

Everyone should read this! My kindergartener is praised over and over for "brave spelling" and never gets anything corrected. Some things really do need to be practiced and yes, memorized. Why can't we correct one or two words per assignment or per week for a 6 year old? It's not going to crush a kid's dreams or self worth. This sort of things drives me crazy.

What’s wrong with waiting? They will know how to spell my elementary and middle school and then grammar and sentence structure will be taught over and over again. There are so many more important things to learn at this age. Patience.

Really? My FCPS kids have only ever learned any grammar in a sporadic, haphazard way from Lexia or what I taught them at home (using a homeschool curriculum that is pretty much the opposite of every kind of curriculum FCPS uses). What public school are your kids in where they actually learn spelling, grammar, sentence structure, paragraph formation, and anything other than "just write"?

My 2nd grader in MCPS has a spelling test every Friday (10 words) that she prepares for. They group specific phonemes. So this week its things like "ground, soil, drowsy" etc. They have started with paragraphs and intro/topic sentences for paragraphs. Multiple drafts for a long writing assignment.
I went to MCPS and we diagrammed sentences in 6th grade for parts of speech etc[u]. so it wasn't ES then either.

Ok, but when was this? The 90s? Your average public school is not teaching sentence diagramming these days.

My kid is doing that in second grade. In his heritage language Saturday school - I am so glad we go there as I swear, that’s the only place to get those basics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a first grader. I’m curious with the math discussion above. Here’s what DS7 brought home in his most recent unit assessment. What do you think, DCUM? To me this seems more like a test of reading and following directions, not a math skills test. What 7 or 8 year old doesn’t know what a triangle or rectangle is?

Q1 (Given: page full of shapes)
1. Color the triangles purple
2. Color the hexagon green
3. Color the rhombuses red
4. Color the rectangles orange

Q2 Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

Q3 draw a shape with 4 corners and 4 sides that are all the same length. What is the name of your shape?

Q4 (similar to Q1)
Put a circle around the cube.
Draw a red line under the cylinder.

Sounds like first grade in FCPS. In second grade they finally introduce a few 3D shapes.

This is an example of people who don't understand teaching pedagogy getting mad that the homework is "too simple" because you don't understand what it is trying to teach. Let's just take one of the questions here:

Q2: Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

So you look at this and say omg what first grader doesn't know the difference between a triangle and a circle, and conclude it's remedial. But you miss that this question is not just asking a child to identify a circle and a triangle. It's presenting a falsehood (Sara says the circle is a triangle) and prompting the child to explain WHY it is false. The goal is for the child to identify the differences between a triangle and a circle in a way that a younger child would probably lack the vocabulary and reasoning skills to do. A weak answer to this question is "because it is a circle." A good answer is "because it is round with one side, and a triangle has three flat sides" or "because it doesn't have any corners." The goal is to get children to start thinking about the properties of different shapes and how they are different or similar, in preparation for more advanced geometry where they will learn the words for those properties as well as how to measure them.

Notice in Q3 that a child could draw a square but could also draw a rhombus without 90 degree angles, but a rectangle would be incorrect. That is nuance that many 1st graders have not mastered.

This is where parents often struggle with "new math." There is an emphasis on deeper understanding at an earlier age, and it comes off as remedial because most adults are used to early grade math where you are memorizing math facts and the goal is to produce the correct math fact when prompted. But this worksheet is asking the child to demonstrate understanding of math facts and use reasoning to language to do so. It's more advanced than the work I did in 1st grade math. If mastered, it will set a kid up to do more complex math by late elementary and middle school, because a child who performs this worksheet perfectly will have demonstrated a deeper mastery of geometric concepts than simply identifying a shape by sight.

And who, exactly, is teaching the kids these deep mastery concepts? Because they aren't being taught. When my kids are asked to explain their thinking - which is often - with worksheets like this we usually have to go to Khan Academy, get the 3 minute video that directly explains the concept clearly, and then the kid can explain Sal Khan's explanation as their thinking. And yeah, then they get it sure.

I'm have no problems with the new math. I understand it just fine. I have a problem with how it's typically taught. There's a big difference between, say, Singapore Math which often uses new math concepts, and the way FCPS teachers expect "inquiry" to give deep understanding after a mere five minute intro to a topic.

PP here. My child's 1st grade teacher is absolutely teaching these concepts in class. I know she is asking the right questions and guiding kids towards this level of thinking because I see it when I work with my child at home. I am sure it sinks in for some kids and not for others, depending both on natural aptitude and other factors like attention span and a child's readiness for school generally (many children are distract and unfocused at school, for a wide variety of reasons).

If there is something she isn't getting, then *I* can talk it through with her, which is my job as her parent in supporting her education. I could also enlist a tutoring program but I personally have not found that to be necessary. If you want to send your kid to Kahn Academy for this, go ahead.

The point is, this worksheet was posted in the thread of how remedial a first grader's work is, and it doesn't show that. Another poster called it "Sesame Street level." Well, one, Sesame Street is a pretty good show and actually does encourage preschool age kids to start thinking critically about stuff like the properties of shapes. But two, it's obvious to me that the worksheet in question is asking a first grader to do grade-appropriate work, including the ability to both understand AND explain the properties of different shapes.

Some of y'all want it both ways. You'll dismiss work that seems to "easy" because you want your kids doing algebra in 1st grade (mostly for bragging rights, I believe), but then when it is pointed out that this "easy" work is meant to ensure kids have deep knowledge of fundamental concepts, you're yelling about how no one is teaching it. But it is being taught, by teachers, in public schools. Some kids aren't getting it because they are not getting the preparation and support they need at home in order to get it. And meanwhile we have a bunch of competitive, overbearing parents who want to complain that it's not challenging enough. What are teachers supposed to do? This is the curriculum. It is age appropriate and sufficiently challenging, and will lay a strong foundation for future work. Support your kids in learning it. Stop whining that it's not advanced enough when you can't even accurately identify how advanced it actually is.

I am the person who posted the 1st grade math examples above. I wasn't whining that it wasn't advanced, I posted it so people could weigh in on the assessment and tell me if that's the kind of thing they are seeing in 1st grade. Personally, I thought the worksheet really tested reading and following directions, which my child struggled with in Kindergarten. I have been telling him to slow down and read the directions, to make sure he knows what the question is actually asking. I think that is a big part of math, with learning word problems, having to explain your work, etc.

The assessment comes from an inquiry based curriculum, according to what my school admin has said. I have no idea how much time they spend on teaching the concepts, but probably enough, based on DS's scores and how he is able to explain the problems to me. The teacher does assignment math homework, so I assume class time is spend with questions/discussion/explanations while the "drilling" and practice happens with homework. I don't think it has to be either/or.

My kindergarten and 1st grade math HW often expects that the parent reads the directions or helps the kid read the directions. They even provide the directions in Spanish for parents that do not read English fluently.

[Anonymous]

Last year VA is giving out $1500 learning acceleration grant, and I applied and got it, so I sent my 2nd grader to Kumon. In Dec. the Kumon center had a graduation ceremony, kids doing one grade above gets silver, and kids doing two grade above gets gold.

Most kids are doing at least one grade above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a first grader. I’m curious with the math discussion above. Here’s what DS7 brought home in his most recent unit assessment. What do you think, DCUM? To me this seems more like a test of reading and following directions, not a math skills test. What 7 or 8 year old doesn’t know what a triangle or rectangle is?

Q1 (Given: page full of shapes)
1. Color the triangles purple
2. Color the hexagon green
3. Color the rhombuses red
4. Color the rectangles orange

Q2 Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

Q3 draw a shape with 4 corners and 4 sides that are all the same length. What is the name of your shape?

Q4 (similar to Q1)
Put a circle around the cube.
Draw a red line under the cylinder.

Sounds like first grade in FCPS. In second grade they finally introduce a few 3D shapes.

This is an example of people who don't understand teaching pedagogy getting mad that the homework is "too simple" because you don't understand what it is trying to teach. Let's just take one of the questions here:

Q2: Sara says this shape is a triangle. Is she right? Circle yes or no. How do you know?
(Given: picture of a circle)

So you look at this and say omg what first grader doesn't know the difference between a triangle and a circle, and conclude it's remedial. But you miss that this question is not just asking a child to identify a circle and a triangle. It's presenting a falsehood (Sara says the circle is a triangle) and prompting the child to explain WHY it is false. The goal is for the child to identify the differences between a triangle and a circle in a way that a younger child would probably lack the vocabulary and reasoning skills to do. A weak answer to this question is "because it is a circle." A good answer is "because it is round with one side, and a triangle has three flat sides" or "because it doesn't have any corners." The goal is to get children to start thinking about the properties of different shapes and how they are different or similar, in preparation for more advanced geometry where they will learn the words for those properties as well as how to measure them.

Notice in Q3 that a child could draw a square but could also draw a rhombus without 90 degree angles, but a rectangle would be incorrect. That is nuance that many 1st graders have not mastered.

This is where parents often struggle with "new math." There is an emphasis on deeper understanding at an earlier age, and it comes off as remedial because most adults are used to early grade math where you are memorizing math facts and the goal is to produce the correct math fact when prompted. But this worksheet is asking the child to demonstrate understanding of math facts and use reasoning to language to do so. It's more advanced than the work I did in 1st grade math. If mastered, it will set a kid up to do more complex math by late elementary and middle school, because a child who performs this worksheet perfectly will have demonstrated a deeper mastery of geometric concepts than simply identifying a shape by sight.

And who, exactly, is teaching the kids these deep mastery concepts? Because they aren't being taught. When my kids are asked to explain their thinking - which is often - with worksheets like this we usually have to go to Khan Academy, get the 3 minute video that directly explains the concept clearly, and then the kid can explain Sal Khan's explanation as their thinking. And yeah, then they get it sure.

I'm have no problems with the new math. I understand it just fine. I have a problem with how it's typically taught. There's a big difference between, say, Singapore Math which often uses new math concepts, and the way FCPS teachers expect "inquiry" to give deep understanding after a mere five minute intro to a topic.

PP here. My child's 1st grade teacher is absolutely teaching these concepts in class. I know she is asking the right questions and guiding kids towards this level of thinking because I see it when I work with my child at home. I am sure it sinks in for some kids and not for others, depending both on natural aptitude and other factors like attention span and a child's readiness for school generally (many children are distract and unfocused at school, for a wide variety of reasons).

If there is something she isn't getting, then *I* can talk it through with her, which is my job as her parent in supporting her education. I could also enlist a tutoring program but I personally have not found that to be necessary. If you want to send your kid to Kahn Academy for this, go ahead.

The point is, this worksheet was posted in the thread of how remedial a first grader's work is, and it doesn't show that. Another poster called it "Sesame Street level." Well, one, Sesame Street is a pretty good show and actually does encourage preschool age kids to start thinking critically about stuff like the properties of shapes. But two, it's obvious to me that the worksheet in question is asking a first grader to do grade-appropriate work, including the ability to both understand AND explain the properties of different shapes.

Some of y'all want it both ways. You'll dismiss work that seems to "easy" because you want your kids doing algebra in 1st grade (mostly for bragging rights, I believe), but then when it is pointed out that this "easy" work is meant to ensure kids have deep knowledge of fundamental concepts, you're yelling about how no one is teaching it. But it is being taught, by teachers, in public schools. Some kids aren't getting it because they are not getting the preparation and support they need at home in order to get it. And meanwhile we have a bunch of competitive, overbearing parents who want to complain that it's not challenging enough. What are teachers supposed to do? This is the curriculum. It is age appropriate and sufficiently challenging, and will lay a strong foundation for future work. Support your kids in learning it. Stop whining that it's not advanced enough when you can't even accurately identify how advanced it actually is.

I am the person who posted the 1st grade math examples above. I wasn't whining that it wasn't advanced, I posted it so people could weigh in on the assessment and tell me if that's the kind of thing they are seeing in 1st grade. Personally, I thought the worksheet really tested reading and following directions, which my child struggled with in Kindergarten. I have been telling him to slow down and read the directions, to make sure he knows what the question is actually asking. I think that is a big part of math, with learning word problems, having to explain your work, etc.

The assessment comes from an inquiry based curriculum, according to what my school admin has said. I have no idea how much time they spend on teaching the concepts, but probably enough, based on DS's scores and how he is able to explain the problems to me. The teacher does assignment math homework, so I assume class time is spend with questions/discussion/explanations while the "drilling" and practice happens with homework. I don't think it has to be either/or.

My kindergarten and 1st grade math HW often expects that the parent reads the directions or helps the kid read the directions. They even provide the directions in Spanish for parents that do not read English fluently.

My kid has told me repeatedly I am not supposed to help or check his math homework. I merely glance at it to see if all the problems are done, and he turns it in. I don't know if this is typical at this age, but it's not graded for correctness, just completion.