Au Pair Social Activities - COVID 19

[Anonymous]

I think as more Government rules are relaxed (and they Being relaxed), there will be natural movement of APs away from families that impose additional rules that are stricter than the government. The case that someone happens to have more risk averse AP who happens to have pre-existing conditions and would like to stay more conservative than what’s allowed.

Average AP is a healthy young adult who is here for the experience and not really being stuck with the employer 24/7. Virginia is phase 3 now. Getting in a car and traveling for fun with 2-3 people is allowed. I can’t prohibit her that. But I will be more liberal with providing her a car over the weekend so she can drive herself.

I also might recommend some more fun outside activities (for example I provided a book of hiking trails near us) or give a gift card to a restaurant that has outside seating. I’ll give her disposable masks so she can pass to her friends if they don’t have any. I’ll nicely ask her limiting gatherings to 2-3 people and she will likely do it... I’ll tell her to invite her friends to our pool in our time slot and not attend the pool myself.. if she wants to take a vacation I’ll probably rent a car for her, so that she doesn’t have to fly... and direct her away of the states that things are picking up...

However, I don’t think I’m legally allowed to restrict legal movements of another adult. I can only influence my reaction to those movements, by either rematching or asking her to test and then quarantining if it is positive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think as more Government rules are relaxed (and they Being relaxed), there will be natural movement of APs away from families that impose additional rules that are stricter than the government. The case that someone happens to have more risk averse AP who happens to have pre-existing conditions and would like to stay more conservative than what’s allowed.

Average AP is a healthy young adult who is here for the experience and not really being stuck with the employer 24/7. Virginia is phase 3 now. Getting in a car and traveling for fun with 2-3 people is allowed. I can’t prohibit her that. But I will be more liberal with providing her a car over the weekend so she can drive herself.

I also might recommend some more fun outside activities (for example I provided a book of hiking trails near us) or give a gift card to a restaurant that has outside seating. I’ll give her disposable masks so she can pass to her friends if they don’t have any. I’ll nicely ask her limiting gatherings to 2-3 people and she will likely do it... I’ll tell her to invite her friends to our pool in our time slot and not attend the pool myself.. if she wants to take a vacation I’ll probably rent a car for her, so that she doesn’t have to fly... and direct her away of the states that things are picking up...

However, I don’t think I’m legally allowed to restrict legal movements of another adult. I can only influence my reaction to those movements, by either rematching or asking her to test and then quarantining if it is positive.[/quote

Finally, a sane HM! Kudos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think as more Government rules are relaxed (and they Being relaxed), there will be natural movement of APs away from families that impose additional rules that are stricter than the government. The case that someone happens to have more risk averse AP who happens to have pre-existing conditions and would like to stay more conservative than what’s allowed.

Average AP is a healthy young adult who is here for the experience and not really being stuck with the employer 24/7. Virginia is phase 3 now. Getting in a car and traveling for fun with 2-3 people is allowed. I can’t prohibit her that. But I will be more liberal with providing her a car over the weekend so she can drive herself.

I also might recommend some more fun outside activities (for example I provided a book of hiking trails near us) or give a gift card to a restaurant that has outside seating. I’ll give her disposable masks so she can pass to her friends if they don’t have any. I’ll nicely ask her limiting gatherings to 2-3 people and she will likely do it... I’ll tell her to invite her friends to our pool in our time slot and not attend the pool myself.. if she wants to take a vacation I’ll probably rent a car for her, so that she doesn’t have to fly... and direct her away of the states that things are picking up...

However, I don’t think I’m legally allowed to restrict legal movements of another adult. I can only influence my reaction to those movements, by either rematching or asking her to test and then quarantining if it is positive.

I think your suggestions are fantastic! But I would like to note that the question here is not really a "legal" one--the things that make a match work or not are not matters of law but of taste, preference, compatability. Many HFs and many APs will not be on the same page about quarantine and safety right now. And contrary to the beliefs of the lithium/slavery poster, not all the HFs are the cautious ones and all the APs the careless ones... Many APs are scared of getting sick in this country due to our messed up health care system, among other issues. I know more than one AP whose family spent this spring trying to coax her out of the house. Ours was one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think as more Government rules are relaxed (and they Being relaxed), there will be natural movement of APs away from families that impose additional rules that are stricter than the government. The case that someone happens to have more risk averse AP who happens to have pre-existing conditions and would like to stay more conservative than what’s allowed.

Average AP is a healthy young adult who is here for the experience and not really being stuck with the employer 24/7. Virginia is phase 3 now. Getting in a car and traveling for fun with 2-3 people is allowed. I can’t prohibit her that. But I will be more liberal with providing her a car over the weekend so she can drive herself.

I also might recommend some more fun outside activities (for example I provided a book of hiking trails near us) or give a gift card to a restaurant that has outside seating. I’ll give her disposable masks so she can pass to her friends if they don’t have any. I’ll nicely ask her limiting gatherings to 2-3 people and she will likely do it... I’ll tell her to invite her friends to our pool in our time slot and not attend the pool myself.. if she wants to take a vacation I’ll probably rent a car for her, so that she doesn’t have to fly... and direct her away of the states that things are picking up...

However, I don’t think I’m legally allowed to restrict legal movements of another adult. I can only influence my reaction to those movements, by either rematching or asking her to test and then quarantining if it is positive.

I think your suggestions are fantastic! But I would like to note that the question here is not really a "legal" one--the things that make a match work or not are not matters of law but of taste, preference, compatability. Many HFs and many APs will not be on the same page about quarantine and safety right now. And contrary to the beliefs of the lithium/slavery poster, not all the HFs are the cautious ones and all the APs the careless ones... Many APs are scared of getting sick in this country due to our messed up health care system, among other issues. I know more than one AP whose family spent this spring trying to coax her out of the house. Ours was one.

You are correct, legally (and it is indeed a legal question), you cannot restrict the movements of another adult. It is such a good sign to see a HM actually trying to foster a cultural exchange, as opposed to arguing it's an employment program where the AP has zero rights or expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think as more Government rules are relaxed (and they Being relaxed), there will be natural movement of APs away from families that impose additional rules that are stricter than the government. The case that someone happens to have more risk averse AP who happens to have pre-existing conditions and would like to stay more conservative than what’s allowed.

Average AP is a healthy young adult who is here for the experience and not really being stuck with the employer 24/7. Virginia is phase 3 now. Getting in a car and traveling for fun with 2-3 people is allowed. I can’t prohibit her that. But I will be more liberal with providing her a car over the weekend so she can drive herself.

I also might recommend some more fun outside activities (for example I provided a book of hiking trails near us) or give a gift card to a restaurant that has outside seating. I’ll give her disposable masks so she can pass to her friends if they don’t have any. I’ll nicely ask her limiting gatherings to 2-3 people and she will likely do it... I’ll tell her to invite her friends to our pool in our time slot and not attend the pool myself.. if she wants to take a vacation I’ll probably rent a car for her, so that she doesn’t have to fly... and direct her away of the states that things are picking up...

However, I don’t think I’m legally allowed to restrict legal movements of another adult. I can only influence my reaction to those movements, by either rematching or asking her to test and then quarantining if it is positive.

I think your suggestions are fantastic! But I would like to note that the question here is not really a "legal" one--the things that make a match work or not are not matters of law but of taste, preference, compatability. Many HFs and many APs will not be on the same page about quarantine and safety right now. And contrary to the beliefs of the lithium/slavery poster, not all the HFs are the cautious ones and all the APs the careless ones... Many APs are scared of getting sick in this country due to our messed up health care system, among other issues. I know more than one AP whose family spent this spring trying to coax her out of the house. Ours was one.

You are correct, legally (and it is indeed a legal question), you cannot restrict the movements of another adult. It is such a good sign to see a HM actually trying to foster a cultural exchange, as opposed to arguing it's an employment program where the AP has zero rights or expectations.

Specious reasoning. You are correct that she has the right to leave my family household, but she doesn't have a legal right to return/keep living there. There is no legal requirement that I house someone who is doing things that I consider unsafe or in violation with the standards for my household. I am not renting an independent housing unit to an adult. There are laws that govern housing rental. Many of them don't apply to roommate situations--given the deference the law shows to people's rights and preferences about their own living spaces-- much less the au pair program, which is a whole different thing.

Of course, I'm in favor of doing things the way the PP with the hiking maps and gift cards has suggested--have sympathy for the au pair's situation in this year, which is NOT shaking out to be the cultural exchange opportunity it was supposed to be. We're taking a similar approach, and all are happy (and I, too, have offered our au pair a ticket home repeatedly). But I do want to be clear: HF's are under no legal obligation to keep an AP--and AP's under no legal obligation to stay with an HF--when they don't agree about safety norms and other preferences or values. I don't have to keep someone who is against my wishes bringing random guys home every night or smoking in my house or doing illegal drugs in her off time or putting pork products in my kosher or halal kitchen--etc etc etc.

And I certainly don't have to keep someone who's violating public health guidance (not the Trump version, but the advice of people like Fauci etc) in my home. My au pair may have a right as an adult to go to nightclubs, but she doesn't have a right to do that and keep living with me and caring for my children. If you're not clear on this check with your agency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think as more Government rules are relaxed (and they Being relaxed), there will be natural movement of APs away from families that impose additional rules that are stricter than the government. The case that someone happens to have more risk averse AP who happens to have pre-existing conditions and would like to stay more conservative than what’s allowed.

Average AP is a healthy young adult who is here for the experience and not really being stuck with the employer 24/7. Virginia is phase 3 now. Getting in a car and traveling for fun with 2-3 people is allowed. I can’t prohibit her that. But I will be more liberal with providing her a car over the weekend so she can drive herself.

I also might recommend some more fun outside activities (for example I provided a book of hiking trails near us) or give a gift card to a restaurant that has outside seating. I’ll give her disposable masks so she can pass to her friends if they don’t have any. I’ll nicely ask her limiting gatherings to 2-3 people and she will likely do it... I’ll tell her to invite her friends to our pool in our time slot and not attend the pool myself.. if she wants to take a vacation I’ll probably rent a car for her, so that she doesn’t have to fly... and direct her away of the states that things are picking up...

However, I don’t think I’m legally allowed to restrict legal movements of another adult. I can only influence my reaction to those movements, by either rematching or asking her to test and then quarantining if it is positive.

I think your suggestions are fantastic! But I would like to note that the question here is not really a "legal" one--the things that make a match work or not are not matters of law but of taste, preference, compatability. Many HFs and many APs will not be on the same page about quarantine and safety right now. And contrary to the beliefs of the lithium/slavery poster, not all the HFs are the cautious ones and all the APs the careless ones... Many APs are scared of getting sick in this country due to our messed up health care system, among other issues. I know more than one AP whose family spent this spring trying to coax her out of the house. Ours was one.

You are correct, legally (and it is indeed a legal question), you cannot restrict the movements of another adult. It is such a good sign to see a HM actually trying to foster a cultural exchange, as opposed to arguing it's an employment program where the AP has zero rights or expectations.

Specious reasoning. You are correct that she has the right to leave my family household, but she doesn't have a legal right to return/keep living there. There is no legal requirement that I house someone who is doing things that I consider unsafe or in violation with the standards for my household. I am not renting an independent housing unit to an adult. There are laws that govern housing rental. Many of them don't apply to roommate situations--given the deference the law shows to people's rights and preferences about their own living spaces-- much less the au pair program, which is a whole different thing.

Of course, I'm in favor of doing things the way the PP with the hiking maps and gift cards has suggested--have sympathy for the au pair's situation in this year, which is NOT shaking out to be the cultural exchange opportunity it was supposed to be. We're taking a similar approach, and all are happy (and I, too, have offered our au pair a ticket home repeatedly). But I do want to be clear: HF's are under no legal obligation to keep an AP--and AP's under no legal obligation to stay with an HF--when they don't agree about safety norms and other preferences or values. I don't have to keep someone who is against my wishes bringing random guys home every night or smoking in my house or doing illegal drugs in her off time or putting pork products in my kosher or halal kitchen--etc etc etc.

And I certainly don't have to keep someone who's violating public health guidance (not the Trump version, but the advice of people like Fauci etc) in my home. My au pair may have a right as an adult to go to nightclubs, but she doesn't have a right to do that and keep living with me and caring for my children. If you're not clear on this check with your agency.

+1000, but wait for that person to chime in again with another argument

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think as more Government rules are relaxed (and they Being relaxed), there will be natural movement of APs away from families that impose additional rules that are stricter than the government. The case that someone happens to have more risk averse AP who happens to have pre-existing conditions and would like to stay more conservative than what’s allowed.

Average AP is a healthy young adult who is here for the experience and not really being stuck with the employer 24/7. Virginia is phase 3 now. Getting in a car and traveling for fun with 2-3 people is allowed. I can’t prohibit her that. But I will be more liberal with providing her a car over the weekend so she can drive herself.

I also might recommend some more fun outside activities (for example I provided a book of hiking trails near us) or give a gift card to a restaurant that has outside seating. I’ll give her disposable masks so she can pass to her friends if they don’t have any. I’ll nicely ask her limiting gatherings to 2-3 people and she will likely do it... I’ll tell her to invite her friends to our pool in our time slot and not attend the pool myself.. if she wants to take a vacation I’ll probably rent a car for her, so that she doesn’t have to fly... and direct her away of the states that things are picking up...

However, I don’t think I’m legally allowed to restrict legal movements of another adult. I can only influence my reaction to those movements, by either rematching or asking her to test and then quarantining if it is positive.

I think your suggestions are fantastic! But I would like to note that the question here is not really a "legal" one--the things that make a match work or not are not matters of law but of taste, preference, compatability. Many HFs and many APs will not be on the same page about quarantine and safety right now. And contrary to the beliefs of the lithium/slavery poster, not all the HFs are the cautious ones and all the APs the careless ones... Many APs are scared of getting sick in this country due to our messed up health care system, among other issues. I know more than one AP whose family spent this spring trying to coax her out of the house. Ours was one.

You are correct, legally (and it is indeed a legal question), you cannot restrict the movements of another adult. It is such a good sign to see a HM actually trying to foster a cultural exchange, as opposed to arguing it's an employment program where the AP has zero rights or expectations.

Specious reasoning. You are correct that she has the right to leave my family household, but she doesn't have a legal right to return/keep living there. There is no legal requirement that I house someone who is doing things that I consider unsafe or in violation with the standards for my household. I am not renting an independent housing unit to an adult. There are laws that govern housing rental. Many of them don't apply to roommate situations--given the deference the law shows to people's rights and preferences about their own living spaces-- much less the au pair program, which is a whole different thing.

Of course, I'm in favor of doing things the way the PP with the hiking maps and gift cards has suggested--have sympathy for the au pair's situation in this year, which is NOT shaking out to be the cultural exchange opportunity it was supposed to be. We're taking a similar approach, and all are happy (and I, too, have offered our au pair a ticket home repeatedly). But I do want to be clear: HF's are under no legal obligation to keep an AP--and AP's under no legal obligation to stay with an HF--when they don't agree about safety norms and other preferences or values. I don't have to keep someone who is against my wishes bringing random guys home every night or smoking in my house or doing illegal drugs in her off time or putting pork products in my kosher or halal kitchen--etc etc etc.

And I certainly don't have to keep someone who's violating public health guidance (not the Trump version, but the advice of people like Fauci etc) in my home. My au pair may have a right as an adult to go to nightclubs, but she doesn't have a right to do that and keep living with me and caring for my children. If you're not clear on this check with your agency.

Specious reasoning. Absolutely zero people discussed nightclubs (which are not open). What you have been proposing is following your own health guidance (itself stricter than CDC and NIH) and demanding the AP follow your beliefs. In this scenario, she is not "violating" any law or public guidance - she hold a different private guidance than yours. In a market with so many HFs, and so few APs, the APs clearly have more options that your typically "my way or I am sending you home" threats imposed by bad actor HFs. So, again, you are free to rematch over this - and she will likely end up in an equivalent or better HF, given demand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think as more Government rules are relaxed (and they Being relaxed), there will be natural movement of APs away from families that impose additional rules that are stricter than the government. The case that someone happens to have more risk averse AP who happens to have pre-existing conditions and would like to stay more conservative than what’s allowed.

Average AP is a healthy young adult who is here for the experience and not really being stuck with the employer 24/7. Virginia is phase 3 now. Getting in a car and traveling for fun with 2-3 people is allowed. I can’t prohibit her that. But I will be more liberal with providing her a car over the weekend so she can drive herself.

I also might recommend some more fun outside activities (for example I provided a book of hiking trails near us) or give a gift card to a restaurant that has outside seating. I’ll give her disposable masks so she can pass to her friends if they don’t have any. I’ll nicely ask her limiting gatherings to 2-3 people and she will likely do it... I’ll tell her to invite her friends to our pool in our time slot and not attend the pool myself.. if she wants to take a vacation I’ll probably rent a car for her, so that she doesn’t have to fly... and direct her away of the states that things are picking up...

However, I don’t think I’m legally allowed to restrict legal movements of another adult. I can only influence my reaction to those movements, by either rematching or asking her to test and then quarantining if it is positive.

I think your suggestions are fantastic! But I would like to note that the question here is not really a "legal" one--the things that make a match work or not are not matters of law but of taste, preference, compatability. Many HFs and many APs will not be on the same page about quarantine and safety right now. And contrary to the beliefs of the lithium/slavery poster, not all the HFs are the cautious ones and all the APs the careless ones... Many APs are scared of getting sick in this country due to our messed up health care system, among other issues. I know more than one AP whose family spent this spring trying to coax her out of the house. Ours was one.

You are correct, legally (and it is indeed a legal question), you cannot restrict the movements of another adult. It is such a good sign to see a HM actually trying to foster a cultural exchange, as opposed to arguing it's an employment program where the AP has zero rights or expectations.

Specious reasoning. You are correct that she has the right to leave my family household, but she doesn't have a legal right to return/keep living there. There is no legal requirement that I house someone who is doing things that I consider unsafe or in violation with the standards for my household. I am not renting an independent housing unit to an adult. There are laws that govern housing rental. Many of them don't apply to roommate situations--given the deference the law shows to people's rights and preferences about their own living spaces-- much less the au pair program, which is a whole different thing.

Of course, I'm in favor of doing things the way the PP with the hiking maps and gift cards has suggested--have sympathy for the au pair's situation in this year, which is NOT shaking out to be the cultural exchange opportunity it was supposed to be. We're taking a similar approach, and all are happy (and I, too, have offered our au pair a ticket home repeatedly). But I do want to be clear: HF's are under no legal obligation to keep an AP--and AP's under no legal obligation to stay with an HF--when they don't agree about safety norms and other preferences or values. I don't have to keep someone who is against my wishes bringing random guys home every night or smoking in my house or doing illegal drugs in her off time or putting pork products in my kosher or halal kitchen--etc etc etc.

And I certainly don't have to keep someone who's violating public health guidance (not the Trump version, but the advice of people like Fauci etc) in my home. My au pair may have a right as an adult to go to nightclubs, but she doesn't have a right to do that and keep living with me and caring for my children. If you're not clear on this check with your agency.

Specious reasoning. Absolutely zero people discussed nightclubs (which are not open). What you have been proposing is following your own health guidance (itself stricter than CDC and NIH) and demanding the AP follow your beliefs. In this scenario, she is not "violating" any law or public guidance - she hold a different private guidance than yours. In a market with so many HFs, and so few APs, the APs clearly have more options that your typically "my way or I am sending you home" threats imposed by bad actor HFs. So, again, you are free to rematch over this - and she will likely end up in an equivalent or better HF, given demand.

PP here. News flash: In some states nightclubs are! We have no national policy on this, have you been paying attention? Show me where anyone from NIH says a multi hour car ride with 3 people you don't reside with is a good idea right now. People are still encouraged to social distance.

In any case, you seem to be conflating a bunch of different posters, and whoever you are you don't seem to be worth engaging in as you are changing your argument just to start or keep a fight going. No one is debating whether an au pair has a right to rematch if she doesn't like the family's policies. That's true, and as it should be. You were however claiming that HFs were legally required to host someone regardless of her actions. That's nonsense. Anyway, I am going to stop wasting time on this and get back to work. Have fun with this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think as more Government rules are relaxed (and they Being relaxed), there will be natural movement of APs away from families that impose additional rules that are stricter than the government. The case that someone happens to have more risk averse AP who happens to have pre-existing conditions and would like to stay more conservative than what’s allowed.

Average AP is a healthy young adult who is here for the experience and not really being stuck with the employer 24/7. Virginia is phase 3 now. Getting in a car and traveling for fun with 2-3 people is allowed. I can’t prohibit her that. But I will be more liberal with providing her a car over the weekend so she can drive herself.

I also might recommend some more fun outside activities (for example I provided a book of hiking trails near us) or give a gift card to a restaurant that has outside seating. I’ll give her disposable masks so she can pass to her friends if they don’t have any. I’ll nicely ask her limiting gatherings to 2-3 people and she will likely do it... I’ll tell her to invite her friends to our pool in our time slot and not attend the pool myself.. if she wants to take a vacation I’ll probably rent a car for her, so that she doesn’t have to fly... and direct her away of the states that things are picking up...

However, I don’t think I’m legally allowed to restrict legal movements of another adult. I can only influence my reaction to those movements, by either rematching or asking her to test and then quarantining if it is positive.

I think your suggestions are fantastic! But I would like to note that the question here is not really a "legal" one--the things that make a match work or not are not matters of law but of taste, preference, compatability. Many HFs and many APs will not be on the same page about quarantine and safety right now. And contrary to the beliefs of the lithium/slavery poster, not all the HFs are the cautious ones and all the APs the careless ones... Many APs are scared of getting sick in this country due to our messed up health care system, among other issues. I know more than one AP whose family spent this spring trying to coax her out of the house. Ours was one.

You are correct, legally (and it is indeed a legal question), you cannot restrict the movements of another adult. It is such a good sign to see a HM actually trying to foster a cultural exchange, as opposed to arguing it's an employment program where the AP has zero rights or expectations.

Specious reasoning. You are correct that she has the right to leave my family household, but she doesn't have a legal right to return/keep living there. There is no legal requirement that I house someone who is doing things that I consider unsafe or in violation with the standards for my household. I am not renting an independent housing unit to an adult. There are laws that govern housing rental. Many of them don't apply to roommate situations--given the deference the law shows to people's rights and preferences about their own living spaces-- much less the au pair program, which is a whole different thing.

Of course, I'm in favor of doing things the way the PP with the hiking maps and gift cards has suggested--have sympathy for the au pair's situation in this year, which is NOT shaking out to be the cultural exchange opportunity it was supposed to be. We're taking a similar approach, and all are happy (and I, too, have offered our au pair a ticket home repeatedly). But I do want to be clear: HF's are under no legal obligation to keep an AP--and AP's under no legal obligation to stay with an HF--when they don't agree about safety norms and other preferences or values. I don't have to keep someone who is against my wishes bringing random guys home every night or smoking in my house or doing illegal drugs in her off time or putting pork products in my kosher or halal kitchen--etc etc etc.

And I certainly don't have to keep someone who's violating public health guidance (not the Trump version, but the advice of people like Fauci etc) in my home. My au pair may have a right as an adult to go to nightclubs, but she doesn't have a right to do that and keep living with me and caring for my children. If you're not clear on this check with your agency.

Specious reasoning. Absolutely zero people discussed nightclubs (which are not open). What you have been proposing is following your own health guidance (itself stricter than CDC and NIH) and demanding the AP follow your beliefs. In this scenario, she is not "violating" any law or public guidance - she hold a different private guidance than yours. In a market with so many HFs, and so few APs, the APs clearly have more options that your typically "my way or I am sending you home" threats imposed by bad actor HFs. So, again, you are free to rematch over this - and she will likely end up in an equivalent or better HF, given demand.

PP here. News flash: In some states nightclubs are! We have no national policy on this, have you been paying attention? Show me where anyone from NIH says a multi hour car ride with 3 people you don't reside with is a good idea right now. People are still encouraged to social distance.

In any case, you seem to be conflating a bunch of different posters, and whoever you are you don't seem to be worth engaging in as you are changing your argument just to start or keep a fight going. No one is debating whether an au pair has a right to rematch if she doesn't like the family's policies. That's true, and as it should be. You were however claiming that HFs were legally required to host someone regardless of her actions. That's nonsense. Anyway, I am going to stop wasting time on this and get back to work. Have fun with this thread.

+1. I am the PP who told you she will come back with another argument There is no point arguing with her, that is what she does all day on this forum.

Anyhow, we decided not to match again after our AP year was finished a few weeks ago (and while we are waiting out of country AP, previous AP had already matched with another family before this all started). One of the reasons is exactly what you are saying, we are being careful and I don't want to be fighting with my AP about what Trump says it ok and what Healthcare professionals say is ok. Even the CDC is trying hard not to follow Trump lead but failing miserably. Summer camps are open but we are not sending our kids and If school open in fall in the current conditions we will not be sending our kids either. Some families are doing Summer camps and some can't wait to send their kids to school regardless of the situation, to each their own and there in no point having someone in your house with whom you don't have the same view on this.

Side note: we have 3 kids: 5 years old twins and a 2 year old and we both have flexible jobs and are managing fine. It is doable, APs are great but not the best option at this time for many families. The good news is that I have become so efficient now that I am not sure we will get another AP if our AP can't come in January.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think as more Government rules are relaxed (and they Being relaxed), there will be natural movement of APs away from families that impose additional rules that are stricter than the government. The case that someone happens to have more risk averse AP who happens to have pre-existing conditions and would like to stay more conservative than what’s allowed.

Average AP is a healthy young adult who is here for the experience and not really being stuck with the employer 24/7. Virginia is phase 3 now. Getting in a car and traveling for fun with 2-3 people is allowed. I can’t prohibit her that. But I will be more liberal with providing her a car over the weekend so she can drive herself.

I also might recommend some more fun outside activities (for example I provided a book of hiking trails near us) or give a gift card to a restaurant that has outside seating. I’ll give her disposable masks so she can pass to her friends if they don’t have any. I’ll nicely ask her limiting gatherings to 2-3 people and she will likely do it... I’ll tell her to invite her friends to our pool in our time slot and not attend the pool myself.. if she wants to take a vacation I’ll probably rent a car for her, so that she doesn’t have to fly... and direct her away of the states that things are picking up...

However, I don’t think I’m legally allowed to restrict legal movements of another adult. I can only influence my reaction to those movements, by either rematching or asking her to test and then quarantining if it is positive.

I think your suggestions are fantastic! But I would like to note that the question here is not really a "legal" one--the things that make a match work or not are not matters of law but of taste, preference, compatability. Many HFs and many APs will not be on the same page about quarantine and safety right now. And contrary to the beliefs of the lithium/slavery poster, not all the HFs are the cautious ones and all the APs the careless ones... Many APs are scared of getting sick in this country due to our messed up health care system, among other issues. I know more than one AP whose family spent this spring trying to coax her out of the house. Ours was one.

You are correct, legally (and it is indeed a legal question), you cannot restrict the movements of another adult. It is such a good sign to see a HM actually trying to foster a cultural exchange, as opposed to arguing it's an employment program where the AP has zero rights or expectations.

Specious reasoning. You are correct that she has the right to leave my family household, but she doesn't have a legal right to return/keep living there. There is no legal requirement that I house someone who is doing things that I consider unsafe or in violation with the standards for my household. I am not renting an independent housing unit to an adult. There are laws that govern housing rental. Many of them don't apply to roommate situations--given the deference the law shows to people's rights and preferences about their own living spaces-- much less the au pair program, which is a whole different thing.

Of course, I'm in favor of doing things the way the PP with the hiking maps and gift cards has suggested--have sympathy for the au pair's situation in this year, which is NOT shaking out to be the cultural exchange opportunity it was supposed to be. We're taking a similar approach, and all are happy (and I, too, have offered our au pair a ticket home repeatedly). But I do want to be clear: HF's are under no legal obligation to keep an AP--and AP's under no legal obligation to stay with an HF--when they don't agree about safety norms and other preferences or values. I don't have to keep someone who is against my wishes bringing random guys home every night or smoking in my house or doing illegal drugs in her off time or putting pork products in my kosher or halal kitchen--etc etc etc.

And I certainly don't have to keep someone who's violating public health guidance (not the Trump version, but the advice of people like Fauci etc) in my home. My au pair may have a right as an adult to go to nightclubs, but she doesn't have a right to do that and keep living with me and caring for my children. If you're not clear on this check with your agency.

Specious reasoning. Absolutely zero people discussed nightclubs (which are not open). What you have been proposing is following your own health guidance (itself stricter than CDC and NIH) and demanding the AP follow your beliefs. In this scenario, she is not "violating" any law or public guidance - she hold a different private guidance than yours. In a market with so many HFs, and so few APs, the APs clearly have more options that your typically "my way or I am sending you home" threats imposed by bad actor HFs. So, again, you are free to rematch over this - and she will likely end up in an equivalent or better HF, given demand.

PP here. News flash: In some states nightclubs are! We have no national policy on this, have you been paying attention? Show me where anyone from NIH says a multi hour car ride with 3 people you don't reside with is a good idea right now. People are still encouraged to social distance.

In any case, you seem to be conflating a bunch of different posters, and whoever you are you don't seem to be worth engaging in as you are changing your argument just to start or keep a fight going. No one is debating whether an au pair has a right to rematch if she doesn't like the family's policies. That's true, and as it should be. You were however claiming that HFs were legally required to host someone regardless of her actions. That's nonsense. Anyway, I am going to stop wasting time on this and get back to work. Have fun with this thread.

+1. I am the PP who told you she will come back with another argument There is no point arguing with her, that is what she does all day on this forum.

Anyhow, we decided not to match again after our AP year was finished a few weeks ago (and while we are waiting out of country AP, previous AP had already matched with another family before this all started). One of the reasons is exactly what you are saying, we are being careful and I don't want to be fighting with my AP about what Trump says it ok and what Healthcare professionals say is ok. Even the CDC is trying hard not to follow Trump lead but failing miserably. Summer camps are open but we are not sending our kids and If school open in fall in the current conditions we will not be sending our kids either. Some families are doing Summer camps and some can't wait to send their kids to school regardless of the situation, to each their own and there in no point having someone in your house with whom you don't have the same view on this.

Side note: we have 3 kids: 5 years old twins and a 2 year old and we both have flexible jobs and are managing fine. It is doable, APs are great but not the best option at this time for many families. The good news is that I have become so efficient now that I am not sure we will get another AP if our AP can't come in January.

Ha! There are multiple posters disagreeing with you, but what-evs. What an exciting life you do lead basking in your privilege. We will all believe you’re so efficient with your twins and toddler. :roll. Let me guess, you’re one of the HFs who only choose APs who are young, women of color that think they control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think as more Government rules are relaxed (and they Being relaxed), there will be natural movement of APs away from families that impose additional rules that are stricter than the government. The case that someone happens to have more risk averse AP who happens to have pre-existing conditions and would like to stay more conservative than what’s allowed.

Average AP is a healthy young adult who is here for the experience and not really being stuck with the employer 24/7. Virginia is phase 3 now. Getting in a car and traveling for fun with 2-3 people is allowed. I can’t prohibit her that. But I will be more liberal with providing her a car over the weekend so she can drive herself.

I also might recommend some more fun outside activities (for example I provided a book of hiking trails near us) or give a gift card to a restaurant that has outside seating. I’ll give her disposable masks so she can pass to her friends if they don’t have any. I’ll nicely ask her limiting gatherings to 2-3 people and she will likely do it... I’ll tell her to invite her friends to our pool in our time slot and not attend the pool myself.. if she wants to take a vacation I’ll probably rent a car for her, so that she doesn’t have to fly... and direct her away of the states that things are picking up...

However, I don’t think I’m legally allowed to restrict legal movements of another adult. I can only influence my reaction to those movements, by either rematching or asking her to test and then quarantining if it is positive.

I think your suggestions are fantastic! But I would like to note that the question here is not really a "legal" one--the things that make a match work or not are not matters of law but of taste, preference, compatability. Many HFs and many APs will not be on the same page about quarantine and safety right now. And contrary to the beliefs of the lithium/slavery poster, not all the HFs are the cautious ones and all the APs the careless ones... Many APs are scared of getting sick in this country due to our messed up health care system, among other issues. I know more than one AP whose family spent this spring trying to coax her out of the house. Ours was one.

You are correct, legally (and it is indeed a legal question), you cannot restrict the movements of another adult. It is such a good sign to see a HM actually trying to foster a cultural exchange, as opposed to arguing it's an employment program where the AP has zero rights or expectations.

Specious reasoning. You are correct that she has the right to leave my family household, but she doesn't have a legal right to return/keep living there. There is no legal requirement that I house someone who is doing things that I consider unsafe or in violation with the standards for my household. I am not renting an independent housing unit to an adult. There are laws that govern housing rental. Many of them don't apply to roommate situations--given the deference the law shows to people's rights and preferences about their own living spaces-- much less the au pair program, which is a whole different thing.

Of course, I'm in favor of doing things the way the PP with the hiking maps and gift cards has suggested--have sympathy for the au pair's situation in this year, which is NOT shaking out to be the cultural exchange opportunity it was supposed to be. We're taking a similar approach, and all are happy (and I, too, have offered our au pair a ticket home repeatedly). But I do want to be clear: HF's are under no legal obligation to keep an AP--and AP's under no legal obligation to stay with an HF--when they don't agree about safety norms and other preferences or values. I don't have to keep someone who is against my wishes bringing random guys home every night or smoking in my house or doing illegal drugs in her off time or putting pork products in my kosher or halal kitchen--etc etc etc.

And I certainly don't have to keep someone who's violating public health guidance (not the Trump version, but the advice of people like Fauci etc) in my home. My au pair may have a right as an adult to go to nightclubs, but she doesn't have a right to do that and keep living with me and caring for my children. If you're not clear on this check with your agency.

Specious reasoning. Absolutely zero people discussed nightclubs (which are not open). What you have been proposing is following your own health guidance (itself stricter than CDC and NIH) and demanding the AP follow your beliefs. In this scenario, she is not "violating" any law or public guidance - she hold a different private guidance than yours. In a market with so many HFs, and so few APs, the APs clearly have more options that your typically "my way or I am sending you home" threats imposed by bad actor HFs. So, again, you are free to rematch over this - and she will likely end up in an equivalent or better HF, given demand.

PP here. News flash: In some states nightclubs are! We have no national policy on this, have you been paying attention? Show me where anyone from NIH says a multi hour car ride with 3 people you don't reside with is a good idea right now. People are still encouraged to social distance.

In any case, you seem to be conflating a bunch of different posters, and whoever you are you don't seem to be worth engaging in as you are changing your argument just to start or keep a fight going. No one is debating whether an au pair has a right to rematch if she doesn't like the family's policies. That's true, and as it should be. You were however claiming that HFs were legally required to host someone regardless of her actions. That's nonsense. Anyway, I am going to stop wasting time on this and get back to work. Have fun with this thread.

+1. I am the PP who told you she will come back with another argument There is no point arguing with her, that is what she does all day on this forum.

Anyhow, we decided not to match again after our AP year was finished a few weeks ago (and while we are waiting out of country AP, previous AP had already matched with another family before this all started). One of the reasons is exactly what you are saying, we are being careful and I don't want to be fighting with my AP about what Trump says it ok and what Healthcare professionals say is ok. Even the CDC is trying hard not to follow Trump lead but failing miserably. Summer camps are open but we are not sending our kids and If school open in fall in the current conditions we will not be sending our kids either. Some families are doing Summer camps and some can't wait to send their kids to school regardless of the situation, to each their own and there in no point having someone in your house with whom you don't have the same view on this.

Side note: we have 3 kids: 5 years old twins and a 2 year old and we both have flexible jobs and are managing fine. It is doable, APs are great but not the best option at this time for many families. The good news is that I have become so efficient now that I am not sure we will get another AP if our AP can't come in January.

Ha! There are multiple posters disagreeing with you, but what-evs. What an exciting life you do lead basking in your privilege. We will all believe you’re so efficient with your twins and toddler. :roll. Let me guess, you’re one of the HFs who only choose APs who are young, women of color that think they control.

Haha, I am not the PP you have been arguing with but I am the one you responded to. My APs are at least 25+ years old mature women, I treat them as family friend and we get alone great, no need to control anyone! You sound very insecure, you complain either way, you don't like families having APs and you don't like families saying they don't need APs. You have this utopia idea in your head about what an AP life should be. I am done with you, find another HF to harass!

[Anonymous]

Bottom line is, the program is not woth it anymore. For anyone, also for the APs. It has so many restrictions, bans, etc , and maybe more to come.
HFs habe figured out how to do things differently, and au pairs are not happy with current arrangements. APs need probably to go back home for now, until some sense of normal has come back.
The discussion of what is legal or not legal from a CDC recommendation, is silly! It is the HF’s house, they tell the rules for their house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line is, the program is not woth it anymore. For anyone, also for the APs. It has so many restrictions, bans, etc , and maybe more to come.
HFs habe figured out how to do things differently, and au pairs are not happy with current arrangements. APs need probably to go back home for now, until some sense of normal has come back.
The discussion of what is legal or not legal from a CDC recommendation, is silly! It is the HF’s house, they tell the rules for their house.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter has asthma. We have been taking social distancing very seriously (no camps, social distancing, etc)..

We ask our au pair to limit social Interactions to outside based activities - not to ride in the car with anyone else, not to go inside people’s houses, etc.

We know that she may get tired of this and rematch at some point, which would be really tough, but I can’t put my family at risk because we were worried about Losing childcare.

Maybe it’s your AP, who has been hanging out at our house every weekend since the beginning of the pandemic. Please know that you cannot control your APs. If I were you, I would let the AP go and take care of my children myself.

Maybe we could do that if we weren't toiling away in the ER and ICU taking care of COVID patients since March???? FWIW, our AP is relieved that our family has an actual science/medical background and is taking precautions because many of her AP friends are very unhappy with how HFs are relaxing the rules when it comes to their social lives but are super strict with AP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter has asthma. We have been taking social distancing very seriously (no camps, social distancing, etc)..

We ask our au pair to limit social Interactions to outside based activities - not to ride in the car with anyone else, not to go inside people’s houses, etc.

We know that she may get tired of this and rematch at some point, which would be really tough, but I can’t put my family at risk because we were worried about Losing childcare.

Maybe it’s your AP, who has been hanging out at our house every weekend since the beginning of the pandemic. Please know that you cannot control your APs. If I were you, I would let the AP go and take care of my children myself.

Guessing from the last line, I'd bet money it's the "no playdates" poster from another ridiculous thread, or her soulmate. OP, you're right to be concerned about this. Multi hour car ride with three other people is about as high risk as it gets. Can you lend her a car to drive separately or give her money to rent one or make some comparable good faith effort to solve the problem while also acknowledging what a crummy situation this is for her?

Actually, we have increased her pay, are paying 100% of her education credits (and then some), and she has her own car to use.