Different rates for nannying vs babysitting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I ask our nanny to babysit I am required, by law, to pay her at overtime rates.

That is prohibitive for us so we don't use her for babysitting. It has nothing to do w/ her - she's terrific, but what we would legally be required to pay her is roughly double what we can pay someone else. It's the difference between getting out w/ my husband or not quite frankly.

Again, false. Different jobs, different rates, not the same employment. Nanny could work 40 hours for you, but if you ask her to come back in 3 hours on a Friday so you guys can catch a late movie you could pay her $10 an hour and that's it, no overtime needed.

We've asked our nanny tax people to weigh in on the subject and they said it has to be paid at overtime rates. So we don't ask the nanny to babysit at night, and use a neighborhood sitter at $15/hr. Works for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been a nanny a long time. If the parents already hire other babysitters at a lower rate, but I want to have the opportunity to get those extra hours, I would ask them to tell me what they pay the babysitters and what the job entails. By that I mean, the part where you get them all ready for bed, etc., and that you don't expect all the normal nanny duties that I would do during the day. Then I would decide whether I want the gig at that rate. I don't think you are obligated to pay me my day nanny rate unless you want me to do the same things I do during the day.

And I would appreciate your flexibility, but the fact of the matter is that IRS disagrees with you that this shouldn't be charged at overtime rates. It's unfortunately not up to you (I wish it was!) This area has enough people whose record on domestic employment has to be squeaky clean, so it may be not worth it to your employer. If IRS comes after the employer with "why didn't you pay overtime?", they aren't going to care that "my nanny said we don't have to."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a nanny a long time. If the parents already hire other babysitters at a lower rate, but I want to have the opportunity to get those extra hours, I would ask them to tell me what they pay the babysitters and what the job entails. By that I mean, the part where you get them all ready for bed, etc., and that you don't expect all the normal nanny duties that I would do during the day. Then I would decide whether I want the gig at that rate. I don't think you are obligated to pay me my day nanny rate unless you want me to do the same things I do during the day.

And I would appreciate your flexibility, but the fact of the matter is that IRS disagrees with you that this shouldn't be charged at overtime rates. It's unfortunately not up to you (I wish it was!) This area has enough people whose record on domestic employment has to be squeaky clean, so it may be not worth it to your employer. If IRS comes after the employer with "why didn't you pay overtime?", they aren't going to care that "my nanny said we don't have to."

"We only employed her as a nanny for 38 hours a week. She only occasionally babysit in the late evenings for 2-3 hours a month. She wasn't owed overtime. Thanks. Bye." Simple, IRS is gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a nanny a long time. If the parents already hire other babysitters at a lower rate, but I want to have the opportunity to get those extra hours, I would ask them to tell me what they pay the babysitters and what the job entails. By that I mean, the part where you get them all ready for bed, etc., and that you don't expect all the normal nanny duties that I would do during the day. Then I would decide whether I want the gig at that rate. I don't think you are obligated to pay me my day nanny rate unless you want me to do the same things I do during the day.

And I would appreciate your flexibility, but the fact of the matter is that IRS disagrees with you that this shouldn't be charged at overtime rates. It's unfortunately not up to you (I wish it was!) This area has enough people whose record on domestic employment has to be squeaky clean, so it may be not worth it to your employer. If IRS comes after the employer with "why didn't you pay overtime?", they aren't going to care that "my nanny said we don't have to."

"We only employed her as a nanny for 38 hours a week. She only occasionally babysit in the late evenings for 2-3 hours a month. She wasn't owed overtime. Thanks. Bye." Simple, IRS is gone.

Ours works for more than that, unfortunately. So hiring her for extra hours would definitely get into overtime territory. I appreciate what you're trying to say but tax people say otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a nanny a long time. If the parents already hire other babysitters at a lower rate, but I want to have the opportunity to get those extra hours, I would ask them to tell me what they pay the babysitters and what the job entails. By that I mean, the part where you get them all ready for bed, etc., and that you don't expect all the normal nanny duties that I would do during the day. Then I would decide whether I want the gig at that rate. I don't think you are obligated to pay me my day nanny rate unless you want me to do the same things I do during the day.

And I would appreciate your flexibility, but the fact of the matter is that IRS disagrees with you that this shouldn't be charged at overtime rates. It's unfortunately not up to you (I wish it was!) This area has enough people whose record on domestic employment has to be squeaky clean, so it may be not worth it to your employer. If IRS comes after the employer with "why didn't you pay overtime?", they aren't going to care that "my nanny said we don't have to."

"We only employed her as a nanny for 38 hours a week. She only occasionally babysit in the late evenings for 2-3 hours a month. She wasn't owed overtime. Thanks. Bye." Simple, IRS is gone.

Ours works for more than that, unfortunately. So hiring her for extra hours would definitely get into overtime territory. I appreciate what you're trying to say but tax people say otherwise.

Doesn't matter. Change the 38 to 50, same thing. You don't owe nanny the same pay rate for babysitting as for nannying, and you surely don't owe her overtime on that pay either, at any rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a nanny a long time. If the parents already hire other babysitters at a lower rate, but I want to have the opportunity to get those extra hours, I would ask them to tell me what they pay the babysitters and what the job entails. By that I mean, the part where you get them all ready for bed, etc., and that you don't expect all the normal nanny duties that I would do during the day. Then I would decide whether I want the gig at that rate. I don't think you are obligated to pay me my day nanny rate unless you want me to do the same things I do during the day.

And I would appreciate your flexibility, but the fact of the matter is that IRS disagrees with you that this shouldn't be charged at overtime rates. It's unfortunately not up to you (I wish it was!) This area has enough people whose record on domestic employment has to be squeaky clean, so it may be not worth it to your employer. If IRS comes after the employer with "why didn't you pay overtime?", they aren't going to care that "my nanny said we don't have to."

"We only employed her as a nanny for 38 hours a week. She only occasionally babysit in the late evenings for 2-3 hours a month. She wasn't owed overtime. Thanks. Bye." Simple, IRS is gone.

Ours works for more than that, unfortunately. So hiring her for extra hours would definitely get into overtime territory. I appreciate what you're trying to say but tax people say otherwise.

Doesn't matter. Change the 38 to 50, same thing. You don't owe nanny the same pay rate for babysitting as for nannying, and you surely don't owe her overtime on that pay either, at any rate.

You are simply wrong. There is clear law on this. You can choose to disregard it and take that risk, many certainly do. But your nanny is legally entitled to overtime rates for any hours worked for you beyond 40 in any given work week. She could be weeding the lawn for the extra hours and she is still entitled to overtime. Overtime laws are about the number of hours worked - not about the type of work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a nanny a long time. If the parents already hire other babysitters at a lower rate, but I want to have the opportunity to get those extra hours, I would ask them to tell me what they pay the babysitters and what the job entails. By that I mean, the part where you get them all ready for bed, etc., and that you don't expect all the normal nanny duties that I would do during the day. Then I would decide whether I want the gig at that rate. I don't think you are obligated to pay me my day nanny rate unless you want me to do the same things I do during the day.

And I would appreciate your flexibility, but the fact of the matter is that IRS disagrees with you that this shouldn't be charged at overtime rates. It's unfortunately not up to you (I wish it was!) This area has enough people whose record on domestic employment has to be squeaky clean, so it may be not worth it to your employer. If IRS comes after the employer with "why didn't you pay overtime?", they aren't going to care that "my nanny said we don't have to."

"We only employed her as a nanny for 38 hours a week. She only occasionally babysit in the late evenings for 2-3 hours a month. She wasn't owed overtime. Thanks. Bye." Simple, IRS is gone.

Ours works for more than that, unfortunately. So hiring her for extra hours would definitely get into overtime territory. I appreciate what you're trying to say but tax people say otherwise.

Doesn't matter. Change the 38 to 50, same thing. You don't owe nanny the same pay rate for babysitting as for nannying, and you surely don't owe her overtime on that pay either, at any rate.

You are simply wrong. There is clear law on this. You can choose to disregard it and take that risk, many certainly do. But your nanny is legally entitled to overtime rates for any hours worked for you beyond 40 in any given work week. She could be weeding the lawn for the extra hours and she is still entitled to overtime. Overtime laws are about the number of hours worked - not about the type of work.

Wow. If that is the case, it would cost me close to $35/hour to go on a date with my husband. Guess I won't be hiring my nanny to babysit.

[Anonymous]

Legally, you would absolutely owe overtone. However, legally you can also pay different rates for different work. If you want to be airtight legally, put in writing the rate for nanny work and the rate for babysitting work (as well as an objective distinction so it is clear what differentiates the job)

Nanny is then owed straight time at the differential rates, plus, what is known as a blended OT rate for any hours worked over 40. This is basically 1.5x the average straight pay rate she received for all hour worked per hour for hours > 40.

I've never known anyone to actually do this in real life, but it's legal.

[nannydebsays]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I think this has gone a bit off the rails. I'm not asking my nanny to babysit. I hire a family friend, a young professional with extensive child care experience who likes to make a little extra cash,when I need a sitter for a few hours in the evening, most of which is spent with the kids sleeping. My nanny asked me to hire her instead of my regular sitter. At her regular rate, it would cost me significantly more to hire my nanny. I'm not trying to take advantage of her. She's basically asking me to do her a favor by hiring her instead of someone else. I just wanted to know how others have handled this situation.

"Nanny, we would love to have you babysit occasionally. We budget $XX/hour for babysitting. Is that rate one you would be willing to accept? If not, no hard feelings!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I think this has gone a bit off the rails. I'm not asking my nanny to babysit. I hire a family friend, a young professional with extensive child care experience who likes to make a little extra cash,when I need a sitter for a few hours in the evening, most of which is spent with the kids sleeping. My nanny asked me to hire her instead of my regular sitter. At her regular rate, it would cost me significantly more to hire my nanny. I'm not trying to take advantage of her. She's basically asking me to do her a favor by hiring her instead of someone else. I just wanted to know how others have handled this situation.

Explain that the rules for overtime would make this cost prohibitive for you. If she wants, you can recommend her to another family you know.

[Anonymous]

nannydebsays wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I think this has gone a bit off the rails. I'm not asking my nanny to babysit. I hire a family friend, a young professional with extensive child care experience who likes to make a little extra cash,when I need a sitter for a few hours in the evening, most of which is spent with the kids sleeping. My nanny asked me to hire her instead of my regular sitter. At her regular rate, it would cost me significantly more to hire my nanny. I'm not trying to take advantage of her. She's basically asking me to do her a favor by hiring her instead of someone else. I just wanted to know how others have handled this situation.

"Nanny, we would love to have you babysit occasionally. We budget $XX/hour for babysitting. Is that rate one you would be willing to accept? If not, no hard feelings!"

"I accept that rate MB, $15/hr is fine, but please keep in mind that I will need OT since I have already worked 48 hours this week so you actually owe me $22.50/hr. See you Friday!"

[Anonymous]

nannydebsays wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I think this has gone a bit off the rails. I'm not asking my nanny to babysit. I hire a family friend, a young professional with extensive child care experience who likes to make a little extra cash,when I need a sitter for a few hours in the evening, most of which is spent with the kids sleeping. My nanny asked me to hire her instead of my regular sitter. At her regular rate, it would cost me significantly more to hire my nanny. I'm not trying to take advantage of her. She's basically asking me to do her a favor by hiring her instead of someone else. I just wanted to know how others have handled this situation.

"Nanny, we would love to have you babysit occasionally. We budget $XX/hour for babysitting. Is that rate one you would be willing to accept? If not, no hard feelings!"

Nannydeb, I am surprised at you. You know as well as any of us that the nanny could sue for overtime after leaving employment. And she would clearly win.

A household employee is a household employee. You cannot claim various hours fall under various job titles. So, if I had a nanny/housekeeper who cleaned for 30 hours and took care of kids for 20, you think I could pretend that they were two different jobs and not pay overtime?

Bull.

[Anonymous]

You will owe overtime, period if you go over 40. No way to say they are doing two different jobs for you to get around it. Explain to her that it is not in your budget to pay overtime and at such a high base rate too.

This is a good lesson for those clamoring for higher minimum wage. If you use the law to force employers to pay employees more, there are just less jobs. Employers do not have an infinite pile of money that we are just keeping from employees because of some disdain. If it is costing us $35/hr to go out, we just won't go out. If we can pay $15, we will because it is worth $15 but not $35 to go out to dinner. Simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You will owe overtime, period if you go over 40. No way to say they are doing two different jobs for you to get around it. Explain to her that it is not in your budget to pay overtime and at such a high base rate too.

This is a good lesson for those clamoring for higher minimum wage. If you use the law to force employers to pay employees more, there are just less jobs. Employers do not have an infinite pile of money that we are just keeping from employees because of some disdain. If it is costing us $35/hr to go out, we just won't go out. If we can pay $15, we will because it is worth $15 but not $35 to go out to dinner. Simple.

I am a MB whose HHI is a few million annually. This is not a "good lesson." If you pay people a living wage, they won't have to accept crap jobs that mean they are working 60 hours a week just to make ends meet.

[Anonymous]

Instead of 10 people having crappy jobs, 5 will have living wage and 5 will be homeless... Okay if that's what the masses want.