Nannies can sue former employers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nannies should not sign contracts unless firing for cause is clearly defined, that way a parent cannot make up any excuse at all for terminating your contract early, if you choose to allow it to be a term contract. My contract defines fire for cause as:

-committing a crime
-abusing the children
-persistent tardiness of more than 15 minutes
-persistent non performance of duties, which are also clearly defined and my employers cannot fire me (for cause)because I'm not performing a task I didn't agree to.

It also defines cause for my quitting without notice:
-fear of harm or retribution
-failure to remit payment
-persistent non compliance of the agreed upon terms
-persistent non performance of employer responsibilities (running payroll
on time, responding to communication attempts, providing me with equipment/materials needed to perform my job, etc)

You bring up an interesting question. If you allow parents to include additional work beyond childcare, and you can't get to it because the children require your full attention on some days, you can be fired for cause?

Of course they always say, "the children come first", but from what I hear, they often don't mean it. The spotless house is actually more important to some parents than well cared for children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nannies should not sign contracts unless firing for cause is clearly defined, that way a parent cannot make up any excuse at all for terminating your contract early, if you choose to allow it to be a term contract. My contract defines fire for cause as:

-committing a crime
-abusing the children
-persistent tardiness of more than 15 minutes
-persistent non performance of duties, which are also clearly defined and my employers cannot fire me (for cause)because I'm not performing a task I didn't agree to.

It also defines cause for my quitting without notice:
-fear of harm or retribution
-failure to remit payment
-persistent non compliance of the agreed upon terms
-persistent non performance of employer responsibilities (running payroll
on time, responding to communication attempts, providing me with equipment/materials needed to perform my job, etc)

You bring up an interesting question. If you allow parents to include additional work beyond childcare, and you can't get to it because the children require your full attention on some days, you can be fired for cause?

Of course they always say, "the children come first", but from what I hear, they often don't mean it. The spotless house is actually more important to some parents than well cared for children.

We're talking about the content of the contract.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An illegal fire may be "minor" for you, but a fair court ordered settlement of many thousands of dollars would be a major benefit to most nannies.

The judge would most likely award the nanny her full wages due through the end of the term of the contract.

Remember that having been suddenly fired without cause, the nanny has plenty of time on her hands to get the free legal aid help that an unemployed nanny is most certainly qualified to receive.

A nanny who sues for wages due through the end of her term still has a duty to mitigate damages by looking for a new job. In other words, she can't sit on her ass and pursue legal aid instead of getting a new job. She's only entitled to full pay while she remains unemployed and actively looking. Then, if the new job pays less than the old job, she's entitled to the difference between what the old job would have paid and what the new job pays for the rest of the term.

As for legal aid, being qualified to receive help is a very different thing from actually receiving it. At any given time, there are usually far more deserving people in need of help than legal aid can accommodate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I don't know where you are getting your information but that isn't correct. A nanny is an hourly at will employee no matter what her contracts says or doesn't say about it. Employers and nannies can't write in terms that are counter to the employment regulations.

An employer can write in the contract that the nanny agrees to stay for two years but this isn't enforceable. The nanny doesn't owe the employer 1.5 years of pay if she quits after 6 months. An employer can also fire a nanny for any reason. They don't need cause because she is an at will employee. The term "cause" comes more into play for whether the nanny would receive any termination notification time outlined in the contract and whether she would be eligible for unemployment.

Another example would be minimum wage. An employer can write in the contract that the nanny accepts a rate below minimum wage. The nanny can sign it but the nanny is still owed a rate that is minimum wage and can later file for back pay. It doesn't matter that the contract said both parties agreed to lower than minimum wage.

Finally, I think many nannies don't realize that cause is a broad term and there is no need to prove cause beyond a reasonable doubt. Some nannies seem to think that if the employer doesn't have criminal court level evidence of her not performing her job that it is not cause. They don't need a time stamped, independently authenticated photo of you chatting on your phone at the park. Cause can be as a simple as insubordination, failure to communication, dereliction of duty, misappropriation of employer property resources and there is no requirement that nannies be given multiple chances. If you are late once this could be used for cause. You can't argue that you had a bunch of reasons why you were late or that you think you should get another chance or even that its not fair because your employer was late. Nope, you wee late is all that matters in terms of cause.

This is not true. A nanny can be an at will employee or a term employee, depending on what her contract says.

[Anonymous]

18:16 is exactly right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nannies should not sign contracts unless firing for cause is clearly defined, that way a parent cannot make up any excuse at all for terminating your contract early, if you choose to allow it to be a term contract. My contract defines fire for cause as:

-committing a crime
-abusing the children
-persistent tardiness of more than 15 minutes
-persistent non performance of duties, which are also clearly defined and my employers cannot fire me (for cause)because I'm not performing a task I didn't agree to.

It also defines cause for my quitting without notice:
-fear of harm or retribution
-failure to remit payment
-persistent non compliance of the agreed upon terms
-persistent non performance of employer responsibilities (running payroll
on time, responding to communication attempts, providing me with equipment/materials needed to perform my job, etc)

You bring up an interesting question. If you allow parents to include additional work beyond childcare, and you can't get to it because the children require your full attention on some days, you can be fired for cause?

Of course they always say, "the children come first", but from what I hear, they often don't mean it. The spotless house is actually more important to some parents than well cared for children.

We're talking about the content of the contract.

Thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Almost every nanny employment contract I've come across lacked definitions in any meaningful sense. Good luck winning a settlement with a contract that has giant holes in it.

They usually do specify terms and notice periods of termination with and without cause. Only if they lack that clause could one possibily have a chance at getting wages through for the duration of the contract.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Almost every nanny employment contract I've come across lacked definitions in any meaningful sense. Good luck winning a settlement with a contract that has giant holes in it.

They usually do specify terms and notice periods of termination with and without cause. Only if they lack that clause could one possibily have a chance at getting wages through for the duration of the contract.

About how many nanny contracts have you "come across"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost every nanny employment contract I've come across lacked definitions in any meaningful sense. Good luck winning a settlement with a contract that has giant holes in it.

They usually do specify terms and notice periods of termination with and without cause. Only if they lack that clause could one possibily have a chance at getting wages through for the duration of the contract.

About how many nanny contracts have you "come across"?

Not the PP but I've seen between 10-12 nanny employment contracts. Would that be enough to make such a statement?

Let's flip it. How many lawyers have you spoken with personally regarding these employment terms? I don't mean anonymous message board posts, I mean actual verified discussions?

[Anonymous]

Why not try to address the concerns being discussed, rather than try to start a personal attack?

If you disagree with something, go ahead and say so. You are perfectly welcome to do so.

[Anonymous]

If you're an attorney specializing in employment issues, say so if you like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost every nanny employment contract I've come across lacked definitions in any meaningful sense. Good luck winning a settlement with a contract that has giant holes in it.

They usually do specify terms and notice periods of termination with and without cause. Only if they lack that clause could one possibily have a chance at getting wages through for the duration of the contract.

About how many nanny contracts have you "come across"?

Approximately 30. I've read the ones presented to me, many of which I refused to sign or asked for changes prior to signing. I've also read an assortment in my own research. They were all seriously lacking in definitions.

I've read and rewritten other types of contracts, even one that was supposedly written by an attorney. A solid contract is all about the details.

[Anonymous]

13:01 here again. I am a nanny, but I used to own a business with partners. I am by no means a contract expert, but I can certaily read one and usually pick up on what's missing. I also took some undergrad law classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Almost every nanny employment contract I've come across lacked definitions in any meaningful sense. Good luck winning a settlement with a contract that has giant holes in it.

They usually do specify terms and notice periods of termination with and without cause. Only if they lack that clause could one possibily have a chance at getting wages through for the duration of the contract.

It seems we are in basic agreement. As previously mentioned, there are widespread problems with most nanny contracts, even those written by lawyer agency owners and other supposed experts. It leads one to ask if these errors are made on purpose, specifically by including both the "at will" AND duration of employment term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: It leads one to ask if these errors are made on purpose, specifically by including both the "at will" AND duration of employment term.

No, it leads you to ask that. The rest of us are not bothered.