Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, you have written out for us the exact words that your mom used, that you used, and got husband used.

Objectively your husband was completely off of line, over the top, and bratty.

Your mom was lovely. She took ownership and apologized sincerely.

Your husband could not let it go.

I feel so sad for your mom and dad. It's so obvious what is happening but you cannot see it.

I think she simply refuses to see it.

Anonymous wrote:Op, you have written out for us the exact words that your mom used, that you used, and got husband used.

Objectively your husband was completely off of line, over the top, and bratty.

Your mom was lovely. She took ownership and apologized sincerely.

Your husband could not let it go.

I feel so sad for your mom and dad. It's so obvious what is happening but you cannot see it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Any advice on what to do in this particular situation to make things better? Our marriage counselor does family therapy. Is that something people recommend I include my parents join us for?

Watch Sleeping With The Enemy and see if you see the parallels. Run, woman.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. My DH saw the thread and said I missed all the relevant context about my parents and me not sticking up for him when they were mean and controlling over the last three years. I agree there is context here that posters might be overlooking and should consider. He said I don’t decide when something I’m upset about is resolved and that being direct is not mean.

Two wrongs don't make a right. I can well believe your parents may have had controlling episodes, do you know why? Because your husband is abusive and manipulative, and usually people like you go from one controlling household to another. ***I'm not saying it's your fault***. I was like you, the difference is that I've realized this about my life - I'm older than you, so I've had the benefit of a few more years of soul-searching

Your husband is the classic manipulator: he tries to pick fights with everyone you hold dear, so that he can isolate you and make you easier to control. You might deny that he consciously thinks that, and indeed he himself might not think about it in those terms. But believe me, in the end, the result is the same: you are isolated with few friends and family available to help you, and you will end up powerless to get out.

I know he's reading this, so I won't go into specifics, but you really need to leave. Think about what all of this entails, and find ways to reach out for practical advice without his knowledge.

Anonymous wrote:My DH (29) and I (31) have been having ongoing conflicts related to my parents' controlling and/or mean behavior and my inability to stand up to them and set boundaries. I feel like I have made progress on this front, but the issue is not resolved. I am linking the related posts about this situation.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1043271.page
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1046694.page

My parents visited us for a family get together this past weekend. During dinner clean up, my mom went over to the sink to wash dishes, and my husband told her he could handle it. She then deflected, saying something about wanting to help and told him he could dry the dishes while she washed. I didn't realize this was happening at the time. After the event, the next day, I could tell DH was bothered by something. I asked what he was upset about and he mentioned how my mom was being controlling again after we had just told her to please not do that. I tried to be empathetic but my DH said he could tell from my tone that I was frustrated. I suggested we send my mom a text to let her know we were upset by her behavior. I drafted something, which my husband did not believe was direct or strong enough:

Hi, it was great to see you guys this weekend. In the future, could you please not take over cleaning up when we say we can handle it? I know you mean well but it is controlling. We’d appreciate it if you could keep that in mind

Instead we drafted and I sent this:

Hey Mom, I felt like you were being controlling with the cleanup yesterday. Peter said he could handle it and you seemed to be insistent on doing things your way. We don’t come to DE and take over your cooking or cleanup. It’s our house and our kitchen and I’d appreciate if you could be mindful of that.

My mom then called each of us and left voicemails apologizing with the following:

Hey, I just got your text message, we are just arriving home. I am sorry I wasnt, didnt need to be controlling I was just trying to help. And I'm sorry that's how it came across, I was not trying to take over, that wasn't my intention. I feel really bad that it came across that way and I really would like to apologize to DH. I will try to give him a call later. But again that was not my intention I was just trying to help. We had a really nice time, you guys worked really hard and we appreciate you getting everyone together...

I knew that her response was not a perfect apology because she said she was sorry how it came across as opposed to just admitting fault. My DH felt that way as well.

My DH then drafted a follow up text for me to send:

We got your voicemails. I thought you gave your word you’d be less controlling a few weeks ago. If you individually are only capable of helping on your own terms it’s not much of a help at all. Try asking “what can I help with?” and not unilaterally deciding as a guest in someone else’s home.

I then suggested a different version, which DH agreed I could send:

We got your voicemails, thank you. I do understand you want to help, and I appreciate that. However when we aren’t asking for help, or we say we can handle it, and you insist on doing it your way anyway, it doesn’t feel like help to us and more like taking control. In the future it would mean a lot if you could just ask “what can I help with?” or “do you need any help?” and take action based on the response

My mom then responded:

I totally understand. I am sorry I interfered. I did not mean to get in the way and I will be mindful of this in the future. You guys did an awesome job yesterday and we had a wonderful time. Thanks again.

I felt like that response was better. My DH also thought so. However I took it upon myself to "heart" my mom's last response. However, I did this without conferring with my DH, and we had agreed to always talk to each other before communicating on issues that involved my parents and associated conflicts. When he found out I had done that, he said that he felt like I unilaterally decided my mom's response was satisfactory and that I only care about her feeling good about the issue being resolved rather than how my DH feels. I apologized and took ownership for doing that. I was wrong. I offered to remove the heart, which I ultimately did.

Flash forward to the next day. My DH is reasonably still upset. He showed me the message he wanted to sent to my mom. He sent this:

On the topic of this past weekend- everyone else asked us what they could help with. You just decided you’re going to plant yourself in front of our sink. When I said I can handle the dishes you told me to get a towel and dry. I thought we had discussed you being less controlling a few weeks ago but you genuinely can’t seem to wrap your mind around why that’s obnoxious behavior as a guest in someone else’s house. If you can only help with strings attached we don’t want or need it

It's been a few hours, and my mom has not responded.

I feel very stressed and sad. I feel caught between two people whom I love. I cannot control my mom's behavior and/or the wording of her apologies. I agree with my DH that my mom can be controlling. She wants the issue to disappear possibly more than she wants to be genuinely apologetic and introspective and to change. I also cannot control how my DH feels about my mom and when he is ready to forgive. I feel like she is trying and doesn't have bad intentions and wants things to be better. I feel like my DH wants something out of my mom that she is incapable of providing. My DH has made it clear that he doesn't want kids with me until this issue is resolved, which I understand.

I'm not sure where to go from here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Any advice on what to do in this particular situation to make things better? Our marriage counselor does family therapy. Is that something people recommend I include my parents join us for?

Watch Sleeping With The Enemy and see if you see the parallels. Run, woman.

OP here. Yesterday I said I felt upset because I felt like he treats me like the enemy when I am trying to be supportive. He told me that’s because I am the enemy.

OK, I can't believe this is real, but if it's not it's been a pretty elaborate troll on here, so I am going to go with it.

Full disclosure - somewhat embarrassing - but I am married to a guy that is kind of like this. It's a very black or white one way street of loyalty. Not as extreme as your husband, but some of this is not entirely unfamiliar.

I will admit that when we got married I was probably still too enmeshed with my mother. Like, I changed our everyday dishes pattern at my mother's suggestion and didn't even talk to him about it. That's small potatoes in the big scheme of things, but when you are planning your wedding and you are supposed to be a team, it's a big deal. So I worked on that.

It's a dynamic that doesn't really come up anymore because we've been married for over two decades, but it's been a volatile marriage. I have generally made my peace with it, but it's been hard.

The other anger issues you describe, the name calling, the calling you the enemy (I never got that one specifically) is part of his personality. The either you're his enemy or you're on his side is a familiar dynamic - my husband and his whole family have a massive persecution complex. It's literally how he perceives the world.

My advice would be to think VERY long and VERY hard if you want to be in this exact same place in 20 years. Your husband has some issues that he will likely only very grudgingly acknowledge unless you insist he acknowledge them - the name calling will become verbal abuse and it will get worse. He will manipulate you into cutting off friends and from the looks of it, your parents.

My husband has another side that is smart, funny, kind, considerate, etc. but in truth I wish I had divorced him in my mid-30's when my oldest child was 2.5-3 years. I was too weak. I was too worried what people would think. I didn't trust my own perception of the situation. I was too good at telling myself that the issues really weren't a big deal. I thought maybe I really wasn't loyal enough and if I could just change that it would make things better. Newsflash - there is nothing you can do that will ever be enough. It came at a pretty high cost to my own mental health.

I promise, promise, promise you that burying your head in the sand and trying to find ways to smooth it over will wear you down, bit by bit. Add a child or two into the mix and the decisions around staying or going become much, much harder. And he'll turn it on the kids too - it's how he is wired.

This isn't about whether you are too swayed by what your parents think. It's about YOU and YOUR life. You are really young and have so many opportunities before you. I wish you would do what I still haven't done - get a therapist and get your head screwed on straight, stand up for yourself, be the driver of your own future.

The above is brutally honest and not easy to write. I have never said any of this to another living person, but when you said he told you that you were the enemy, man, did that ever hit home.

I wish you all the best.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Any advice on what to do in this particular situation to make things better? Our marriage counselor does family therapy. Is that something people recommend I include my parents join us for?

Watch Sleeping With The Enemy and see if you see the parallels. Run, woman.

OP here. Yesterday I said I felt upset because I felt like he treats me like the enemy when I am trying to be supportive. He told me that’s because I am the enemy.

OK, I can't believe this is real, but if it's not it's been a pretty elaborate troll on here, so I am going to go with it.

Full disclosure - somewhat embarrassing - but I am married to a guy that is kind of like this. It's a very black or white one way street of loyalty. Not as extreme as your husband, but some of this is not entirely unfamiliar.

I will admit that when we got married I was probably still too enmeshed with my mother. Like, I changed our everyday dishes pattern at my mother's suggestion and didn't even talk to him about it. That's small potatoes in the big scheme of things, but when you are planning your wedding and you are supposed to be a team, it's a big deal. So I worked on that.

It's a dynamic that doesn't really come up anymore because we've been married for over two decades, but it's been a volatile marriage. I have generally made my peace with it, but it's been hard.

The other anger issues you describe, the name calling, the calling you the enemy (I never got that one specifically) is part of his personality. The either you're his enemy or you're on his side is a familiar dynamic - my husband and his whole family have a massive persecution complex. It's literally how he perceives the world.

My advice would be to think VERY long and VERY hard if you want to be in this exact same place in 20 years. Your husband has some issues that he will likely only very grudgingly acknowledge unless you insist he acknowledge them - the name calling will become verbal abuse and it will get worse. He will manipulate you into cutting off friends and from the looks of it, your parents.

My husband has another side that is smart, funny, kind, considerate, etc. but in truth I wish I had divorced him in my mid-30's when my oldest child was 2.5-3 years. I was too weak. I was too worried what people would think. I didn't trust my own perception of the situation. I was too good at telling myself that the issues really weren't a big deal. I thought maybe I really wasn't loyal enough and if I could just change that it would make things better. Newsflash - there is nothing you can do that will ever be enough. It came at a pretty high cost to my own mental health.

I promise, promise, promise you that burying your head in the sand and trying to find ways to smooth it over will wear you down, bit by bit. Add a child or two into the mix and the decisions around staying or going become much, much harder. And he'll turn it on the kids too - it's how he is wired.

This isn't about whether you are too swayed by what your parents think. It's about YOU and YOUR life. You are really young and have so many opportunities before you. I wish you would do what I still haven't done - get a therapist and get your head screwed on straight, stand up for yourself, be the driver of your own future.

The above is brutally honest and not easy to write. I have never said any of this to another living person, but when you said he told you that you were the enemy, man, did that ever hit home.

I wish you all the best.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Any advice on what to do in this particular situation to make things better? Our marriage counselor does family therapy. Is that something people recommend I include my parents join us for?

Watch Sleeping With The Enemy and see if you see the parallels. Run, woman.

OP here. Yesterday I said I felt upset because I felt like he treats me like the enemy when I am trying to be supportive. He told me that’s because I am the enemy.

OK, I can't believe this is real, but if it's not it's been a pretty elaborate troll on here, so I am going to go with it.

Full disclosure - somewhat embarrassing - but I am married to a guy that is kind of like this. It's a very black or white one way street of loyalty. Not as extreme as your husband, but some of this is not entirely unfamiliar.

I will admit that when we got married I was probably still too enmeshed with my mother. Like, I changed our everyday dishes pattern at my mother's suggestion and didn't even talk to him about it. That's small potatoes in the big scheme of things, but when you are planning your wedding and you are supposed to be a team, it's a big deal. So I worked on that.

It's a dynamic that doesn't really come up anymore because we've been married for over two decades, but it's been a volatile marriage. I have generally made my peace with it, but it's been hard.

The other anger issues you describe, the name calling, the calling you the enemy (I never got that one specifically) is part of his personality. The either you're his enemy or you're on his side is a familiar dynamic - my husband and his whole family have a massive persecution complex. It's literally how he perceives the world.

My advice would be to think VERY long and VERY hard if you want to be in this exact same place in 20 years. Your husband has some issues that he will likely only very grudgingly acknowledge unless you insist he acknowledge them - the name calling will become verbal abuse and it will get worse. He will manipulate you into cutting off friends and from the looks of it, your parents.

My husband has another side that is smart, funny, kind, considerate, etc. but in truth I wish I had divorced him in my mid-30's when my oldest child was 2.5-3 years. I was too weak. I was too worried what people would think. I didn't trust my own perception of the situation. I was too good at telling myself that the issues really weren't a big deal. I thought maybe I really wasn't loyal enough and if I could just change that it would make things better. Newsflash - there is nothing you can do that will ever be enough. It came at a pretty high cost to my own mental health.

I promise, promise, promise you that burying your head in the sand and trying to find ways to smooth it over will wear you down, bit by bit. Add a child or two into the mix and the decisions around staying or going become much, much harder. And he'll turn it on the kids too - it's how he is wired.

This isn't about whether you are too swayed by what your parents think. It's about YOU and YOUR life. You are really young and have so many opportunities before you. I wish you would do what I still haven't done - get a therapist and get your head screwed on straight, stand up for yourself, be the driver of your own future.

The above is brutally honest and not easy to write. I have never said any of this to another living person, but when you said he told you that you were the enemy, man, did that ever hit home.

I wish you all the best.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can’t heart a text before consulting with your spouse? Crazy

+1. Major major red flag. You don’t have kids, I would seriously consider your partnership with this person and cut ties if he is this controlling now.

OP here. I don't think this is controlling. I suggested it after a huge fight when I texted my mom behind his back. We agreed that to set a united front, that we would both do this going forward.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH (29) and I (31) have been having ongoing conflicts related to my parents' controlling and/or mean behavior and my inability to stand up to them and set boundaries. I feel like I have made progress on this front, but the issue is not resolved. I am linking the related posts about this situation.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1043271.page
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1046694.page

My parents visited us for a family get together this past weekend. During dinner clean up, my mom went over to the sink to wash dishes, and my husband told her he could handle it. She then deflected, saying something about wanting to help and told him he could dry the dishes while she washed. I didn't realize this was happening at the time. After the event, the next day, I could tell DH was bothered by something. I asked what he was upset about and he mentioned how my mom was being controlling again after we had just told her to please not do that. I tried to be empathetic but my DH said he could tell from my tone that I was frustrated. I suggested we send my mom a text to let her know we were upset by her behavior. I drafted something, which my husband did not believe was direct or strong enough:

Hi, it was great to see you guys this weekend. In the future, could you please not take over cleaning up when we say we can handle it? I know you mean well but it is controlling. We’d appreciate it if you could keep that in mind

Instead we drafted and I sent this:

Hey Mom, I felt like you were being controlling with the cleanup yesterday. Peter said he could handle it and you seemed to be insistent on doing things your way. We don’t come to DE and take over your cooking or cleanup. It’s our house and our kitchen and I’d appreciate if you could be mindful of that.

My mom then called each of us and left voicemails apologizing with the following:

Hey, I just got your text message, we are just arriving home. I am sorry I wasnt, didnt need to be controlling I was just trying to help. And I'm sorry that's how it came across, I was not trying to take over, that wasn't my intention. I feel really bad that it came across that way and I really would like to apologize to DH. I will try to give him a call later. But again that was not my intention I was just trying to help. We had a really nice time, you guys worked really hard and we appreciate you getting everyone together...

I knew that her response was not a perfect apology because she said she was sorry how it came across as opposed to just admitting fault. My DH felt that way as well.

My DH then drafted a follow up text for me to send:

We got your voicemails. I thought you gave your word you’d be less controlling a few weeks ago. If you individually are only capable of helping on your own terms it’s not much of a help at all. Try asking “what can I help with?” and not unilaterally deciding as a guest in someone else’s home.

I then suggested a different version, which DH agreed I could send:

We got your voicemails, thank you. I do understand you want to help, and I appreciate that. However when we aren’t asking for help, or we say we can handle it, and you insist on doing it your way anyway, it doesn’t feel like help to us and more like taking control. In the future it would mean a lot if you could just ask “what can I help with?” or “do you need any help?” and take action based on the response

My mom then responded:

I totally understand. I am sorry I interfered. I did not mean to get in the way and I will be mindful of this in the future. You guys did an awesome job yesterday and we had a wonderful time. Thanks again.

I felt like that response was better. My DH also thought so. However I took it upon myself to "heart" my mom's last response. However, I did this without conferring with my DH, and we had agreed to always talk to each other before communicating on issues that involved my parents and associated conflicts. When he found out I had done that, he said that he felt like I unilaterally decided my mom's response was satisfactory and that I only care about her feeling good about the issue being resolved rather than how my DH feels. I apologized and took ownership for doing that. I was wrong. I offered to remove the heart, which I ultimately did.

Flash forward to the next day. My DH is reasonably still upset. He showed me the message he wanted to sent to my mom. He sent this:

On the topic of this past weekend- everyone else asked us what they could help with. You just decided you’re going to plant yourself in front of our sink. When I said I can handle the dishes you told me to get a towel and dry. I thought we had discussed you being less controlling a few weeks ago but you genuinely can’t seem to wrap your mind around why that’s obnoxious behavior as a guest in someone else’s house. If you can only help with strings attached we don’t want or need it

It's been a few hours, and my mom has not responded.

I feel very stressed and sad. I feel caught between two people whom I love. I cannot control my mom's behavior and/or the wording of her apologies. I agree with my DH that my mom can be controlling. She wants the issue to disappear possibly more than she wants to be genuinely apologetic and introspective and to change. I also cannot control how my DH feels about my mom and when he is ready to forgive. I feel like she is trying and doesn't have bad intentions and wants things to be better. I feel like my DH wants something out of my mom that she is incapable of providing. My DH has made it clear that he doesn't want kids with me until this issue is resolved, which I understand.

I'm not sure where to go from here.

Your DH escalated on his own AFTER your Mom apologized a second time, and then took it upon himself to be directly, cruelly punitive to your Mom. Imagine him doing the equivalent punishment to your child, or children. Imagine being on the receiving end of that type of emotional inflexibility from him. Actually, you are on the receiving end of that type of emotional inflexibility from him. Yes, he's hurting, but he's also insistent on lashing out at someone important to you and someone who is trying her best to manage his very, very rigid sense of 'right'. You have a bigger problem than your mom learning to understand the rules when she's a guest in your home.

Read up on controlling and abusive behavior; you are being isolated by sheer emotional demand and force.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Any advice on what to do in this particular situation to make things better? Our marriage counselor does family therapy. Is that something people recommend I include my parents join us for?

Watch Sleeping With The Enemy and see if you see the parallels. Run, woman.

OP here. Yesterday I said I felt upset because I felt like he treats me like the enemy when I am trying to be supportive. He told me that’s because I am the enemy.