Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, I mean as someone who values the Western idea of feminism (both of my parents, especially my father, were proud feminists and children of the 60s), it makes me sad that other women who are living in a Western country are wholeheartedly rejecting that idea, either consciously or unconsciously. I feel the same way about quiverful women, too, although that choice is usually made consciously, rather than unconsciously.

You realize that's the same thing, right? You value the Western idea of feminism. It makes you sad other people don't value it like you do. You want everyone to be like you and it makes you sad that they aren't.

Silly me. I thought feminism was about freedom of choice. You and people like you are simply incapable of imagining that someone may make a choice different from yours voluntarily. In your mind, freedom of choice means everyone chooses exactly what you would. If they don't, they must be forced.

Too bad you don't see that forcing someone to conform to the dress code you have in mind is pure violence.

I understand that a woman's choice is the heart of feminism. I understand that in this country, women choose to work or not, get married or not, have children or not, have careers or hobbies or sit on the couch eating bonbons all day. I also understand that other cultures don't allow that choice. And Muslima is not convincing me that every niqabi has chosen A instead of B.

Pure violence? What is the greatest determinate for sexual abuse and gender dicrimination? Gender inequality.

I don't see any contradiction in this, you are essentially agreeing with me. You have trouble believing that anyone who chooses differently from you is choosing it voluntarily. You need special proof that they are, because you think that anyone in their right mind would choose exactly the way you did. And you are going to be reeeeally picky with that proof. Like, "no, still not convinced!"

If you think that uncovered women are never sexually abused or discriminated against, you're wrong.

Anonymous wrote:
Different PP, but I'm sad for you. Being so brainwashed as to pretend niqabis are a free choice and not the result of enculturated oppression of women.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, I mean as someone who values the Western idea of feminism (both of my parents, especially my father, were proud feminists and children of the 60s), it makes me sad that other women who are living in a Western country are wholeheartedly rejecting that idea, either consciously or unconsciously. I feel the same way about quiverful women, too, although that choice is usually made consciously, rather than unconsciously.

You realize that's the same thing, right? You value the Western idea of feminism. It makes you sad other people don't value it like you do. You want everyone to be like you and it makes you sad that they aren't.

Silly me. I thought feminism was about freedom of choice. You and people like you are simply incapable of imagining that someone may make a choice different from yours voluntarily. In your mind, freedom of choice means everyone chooses exactly what you would. If they don't, they must be forced.

Too bad you don't see that forcing someone to conform to the dress code you have in mind is pure violence.

No, it isn't "pure violence". That's a BS thing people make up to try to equate limitations on religious expression that infringe on other rights with actual violence, so that they can justify their own actual violence. Not buying.

Anonymous wrote:I think any woman who shows her butt crack is being forced into it by society expectations. The same for shortie shorts that offer me a magnified view of the wearer's camel toe. Especially on teen girls. Plus, it makes my skin crawl. I'd like to ban it, please. I don't believe women who wear that are doing it on their own free will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Different PP, but I'm sad for you. Being so brainwashed as to pretend niqabis are a free choice and not the result of enculturated oppression of women.

Typical white girl thinking that anyone who isn't like her is brainwashed. Go ahead, tell the brown natives what to do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think any woman who shows her butt crack is being forced into it by society expectations. The same for shortie shorts that offer me a magnified view of the wearer's camel toe. Especially on teen girls. Plus, it makes my skin crawl. I'd like to ban it, please. I don't believe women who wear that are doing it on their own free will.

I thought sometimes butt crack displays were due to simple fact that some people are overweight. Who knew.

Anonymous wrote:I think any woman who shows her butt crack is being forced into it by society expectations. The same for shortie shorts that offer me a magnified view of the wearer's camel toe. Especially on teen girls. Plus, it makes my skin crawl. I'd like to ban it, please. I don't believe women who wear that are doing it on their own free will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think any woman who shows her butt crack is being forced into it by society expectations. The same for shortie shorts that offer me a magnified view of the wearer's camel toe. Especially on teen girls. Plus, it makes my skin crawl. I'd like to ban it, please. I don't believe women who wear that are doing it on their own free will.

I thought sometimes butt crack displays were due to simple fact that some people are overweight. Who knew.

As a skinny girl, I thought it's because of the dearth of non-ultra-low-rise pants. Although I guess that's societal. I'd be happy to ban them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, I mean as someone who values the Western idea of feminism (both of my parents, especially my father, were proud feminists and children of the 60s), it makes me sad that other women who are living in a Western country are wholeheartedly rejecting that idea, either consciously or unconsciously. I feel the same way about quiverful women, too, although that choice is usually made consciously, rather than unconsciously.

You realize that's the same thing, right? You value the Western idea of feminism. It makes you sad other people don't value it like you do. You want everyone to be like you and it makes you sad that they aren't.

Silly me. I thought feminism was about freedom of choice. You and people like you are simply incapable of imagining that someone may make a choice different from yours voluntarily. In your mind, freedom of choice means everyone chooses exactly what you would. If they don't, they must be forced.

Too bad you don't see that forcing someone to conform to the dress code you have in mind is pure violence.

No, it isn't "pure violence". That's a BS thing people make up to try to equate limitations on religious expression that infringe on other rights with actual violence, so that they can justify their own actual violence. Not buying.

What rights? You don't have any right to see other people's faces.

You tearing the niqab off the face of a woman who wants to be covered IS violence. Sorry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Different PP, but I'm sad for you. Being so brainwashed as to pretend niqabis are a free choice and not the result of enculturated oppression of women.

Typical white girl thinking that anyone who isn't like her is brainwashed. Go ahead, tell the brown natives what to do.

I'm not telling anyone what to do. I have an opinion about it, but I'm certainly not dictating it. And what "natives" are you talking about? Is it your belief that the Muslims in the U.S. are "natives"? No one's talking about traveling to majority muslim countries and telling them they can't wear niqabs. The debate is about whether they ought to be allowed to in countries where they are most certainly not natives.
And yes, I do think it's brainwashing. I think that in order to believe that the sight of your fact is sacrilegious, you must be convinced that you are to be controlled and minimized. Your power is diminished.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Different PP, but I'm sad for you. Being so brainwashed as to pretend niqabis are a free choice and not the result of enculturated oppression of women.

Typical white girl thinking that anyone who isn't like her is brainwashed. Go ahead, tell the brown natives what to do.

I'm not telling anyone what to do. I have an opinion about it, but I'm certainly not dictating it. And what "natives" are you talking about? Is it your belief that the Muslims in the U.S. are "natives"? No one's talking about traveling to majority muslim countries and telling them they can't wear niqabs. The debate is about whether they ought to be allowed to in countries where they are most certainly not natives.
And yes, I do think it's brainwashing. I think that in order to believe that the sight of your fact is sacrilegious, you must be convinced that you are to be controlled and minimized. Your power is diminished.

That's your interpretation. Women who cover their faces may very well believe that you aren't special enough to see them. The sight of their face is reserved only for special people, and you aren't one of them.

The "native" part is not about citizenship in any particular country. It's about you believing that people who believe different things from you must need enlightenment.

Anonymous wrote:
If you tell a woman that she must wear a niqab or be subject to violence, that;'s a violation of her rights. Duh. And I do think I have a security interest in being able to see the face of a person I'm encountering in a public place. I could care less what people do in the private sphere (their homes, private schools, whatever), but in public places, yes, I think it's a security issue.

Anonymous wrote:
Statistically, the highest evels of domestic violence correspond to the highest levels of gender inequality. I would like to see less abuse. If you call that enlightenment, okay.

That's your interpretation. Women who cover their faces may very well believe that you aren't special enough to see them. The sight of their face is reserved only for special people, and you aren't one of them.