CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ when people say we can't talk about race this is why. You will be called racist and retarded and no one likes to be called that.
so nothing really ever changes.

Talking about race in an educated and informed matter is completely different from making blanket statements about a race and drawing wild conclusions from one anecdote which you consider to represent that entire race - which, by the way, is the very definition of racism. The reason people like you might not be able to talk about race is because you are unwilling to participate in a conversation in which nuances are defined and stereotypes discouraged. In which case, yes, you shouldn't be allowed to talk about race until you've educated yourself about it first.

Anonymous wrote:

A PP just insulted AA's and you call that a "rational" discussion. Come on! Somebody said something ignorant and got called on it and THAT is the problem?

And for the record, White people are among the most insecure and sensitive people around and I AM White.

Anonymous wrote:

CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ when people say we can't talk about race this is why. You will be called racist and retarded and no one likes to be called that.
so nothing really ever changes.

Talking about race in an educated and informed matter is completely different from making blanket statements about a race and drawing wild conclusions from one anecdote which you consider to represent that entire race - which, by the way, is the very definition of racism. The reason people like you might not be able to talk about race is because you are unwilling to participate in a conversation in which nuances are defined and stereotypes discouraged. In which case, yes, you shouldn't be allowed to talk about race until you've educated yourself about it first.

+1. And these same people do not even want to make the effort to understand the cultural and historical reasons as to why something they said is offensive to some. I will talk race and politics with ANYONE who has an open mind about the issue and wants to understand my perspective. But if that person just wants to "discuss" so that they can defend their offensive and insulting statements - the PP is right - I do not want to discuss anything with that person.

CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A PP just insulted AA's and you call that a "rational" discussion. Come on! Somebody said something ignorant and got called on it and THAT is the problem?

Thank you. I was beginning to wonder if I was a lone voice in a sea of madness...

And for the record, White people are among the most insecure and sensitive people around and I AM White.

...aaaaand you went and made the same generalization about white people that the other poster made about black people. That loud thudding sound is my head hitting my desk.

Anonymous wrote:

LOL! I knew someone would catch that. I was joking BTW. Although that would be an interesting question for another day. Is it racist to insult my own race?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP but Brazil and India are not even comparable. The fact that person or others jokes about a type of hair is no more akin to racism than a red head joking about their hair color or a white person saying they are pale. The fact of the matter is Brazilians are infinitely more accepting of phenotypic and cultural differences than most countries on the planet including the US.

If a white person made a joke about nappy hair in America, do you think African Americans would just laugh it off? There has always been so much racial identity politics surrounding phenotypic differences that during the civil rights era, the Afro was an expression of celebrating pride in "nappy hair". I can guarantee you if someone who was not black made a joke about nappy hair in America today, the black community would blow up at him.

The point I was trying to make about the hair comment in Brazil - and I think I explained this above - was that in developing countries the sense of political correctness is different. Maybe people are misunderstanding that because I immediately talked about the Chinese cab driver next, and that was racism. In much of the developing world, people don't really have any sense of political correctness, or at least not the way Americans do. In India for example, you can't say the phrase "lower caste" or "untouchable" - the term is "scheduled caste" or "scheduled tribe". But I have also heard an Indian lady say to her tanned, sporty, outdoorsy child, "You look like a n*gro". Is she racist or just unaware that you can't say that? (and let's not discuss her color prejudice - that is different from racial prejudice) Well, I've seen how she treats Africans so I don't think she's racist, anymore than a white Brazilian who makes fun of "nappy hair". That was my point. Apologies if I didn't make this clear the first time.

PP you responded to... It has no bearing whether AA's get sensitive when someone talks about their hair. It only proves that they are sensitive and insecure. The point when they are not sensitive and comments about differences are not a big deal will be a huge step forward in the US. Brazil and several other countries are beyond that. The US is not the standard here... And this has little to do with developing vs developed country. This has to do with in Brazil whites and blacks are more intertwined, have a shared culture and history. In the US they are completely separate so they feel they need to walk on egg shells around eachother.

NP here and I am HIGHLY offended by your comment. How dare you insinuate that black people are sensitive and insecure about issues that stem from hundreds of years of oppression, racism and discrimination? Please get your head out of your ass.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP but Brazil and India are not even comparable. The fact that person or others jokes about a type of hair is no more akin to racism than a red head joking about their hair color or a white person saying they are pale. The fact of the matter is Brazilians are infinitely more accepting of phenotypic and cultural differences than most countries on the planet including the US.

If a white person made a joke about nappy hair in America, do you think African Americans would just laugh it off? There has always been so much racial identity politics surrounding phenotypic differences that during the civil rights era, the Afro was an expression of celebrating pride in "nappy hair". I can guarantee you if someone who was not black made a joke about nappy hair in America today, the black community would blow up at him.

The point I was trying to make about the hair comment in Brazil - and I think I explained this above - was that in developing countries the sense of political correctness is different. Maybe people are misunderstanding that because I immediately talked about the Chinese cab driver next, and that was racism. In much of the developing world, people don't really have any sense of political correctness, or at least not the way Americans do. In India for example, you can't say the phrase "lower caste" or "untouchable" - the term is "scheduled caste" or "scheduled tribe". But I have also heard an Indian lady say to her tanned, sporty, outdoorsy child, "You look like a n*gro". Is she racist or just unaware that you can't say that? (and let's not discuss her color prejudice - that is different from racial prejudice) Well, I've seen how she treats Africans so I don't think she's racist, anymore than a white Brazilian who makes fun of "nappy hair". That was my point. Apologies if I didn't make this clear the first time.

PP you responded to... It has no bearing whether AA's get sensitive when someone talks about their hair. It only proves that they are sensitive and insecure. The point when they are not sensitive and comments about differences are not a big deal will be a huge step forward in the US. Brazil and several other countries are beyond that. The US is not the standard here... And this has little to do with developing vs developed country. This has to do with in Brazil whites and blacks are more intertwined, have a shared culture and history. In the US they are completely separate so they feel they need to walk on egg shells around eachother.

NP here and I am HIGHLY offended by your comment. How dare you insinuate that black people are sensitive and insecure about issues that stem from hundreds of years of oppression, racism and discrimination? Please get your head out of your ass.

PP you responded to here..

Just to start Brazilian slavery goes back further than US slavery.

Yet, I agree with you that there is a reason for the sensitivity and insecurity. Pointing out this fact is reality and I don't mean it to be offensive. When these comments cease to reflect/produce pain it will be an indication of progress in my eyes.

Anonymous wrote:
My issue is with your choice of words: sensitivity and insecurity. It stinks of the "chip on your shoulder" tag that folks like to hand out to black people whenever we say/do something that is disagreeable. Instead of worrying about the person who feels pain at an insult, how about focusing on changing the behaviors and mindsets of folks who make the comments?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP but Brazil and India are not even comparable. The fact that person or others jokes about a type of hair is no more akin to racism than a red head joking about their hair color or a white person saying they are pale. The fact of the matter is Brazilians are infinitely more accepting of phenotypic and cultural differences than most countries on the planet including the US.

If a white person made a joke about nappy hair in America, do you think African Americans would just laugh it off? There has always been so much racial identity politics surrounding phenotypic differences that during the civil rights era, the Afro was an expression of celebrating pride in "nappy hair". I can guarantee you if someone who was not black made a joke about nappy hair in America today, the black community would blow up at him.

The point I was trying to make about the hair comment in Brazil - and I think I explained this above - was that in developing countries the sense of political correctness is different. Maybe people are misunderstanding that because I immediately talked about the Chinese cab driver next, and that was racism. In much of the developing world, people don't really have any sense of political correctness, or at least not the way Americans do. In India for example, you can't say the phrase "lower caste" or "untouchable" - the term is "scheduled caste" or "scheduled tribe". But I have also heard an Indian lady say to her tanned, sporty, outdoorsy child, "You look like a n*gro". Is she racist or just unaware that you can't say that? (and let's not discuss her color prejudice - that is different from racial prejudice) Well, I've seen how she treats Africans so I don't think she's racist, anymore than a white Brazilian who makes fun of "nappy hair". That was my point. Apologies if I didn't make this clear the first time.

PP you responded to... It has no bearing whether AA's get sensitive when someone talks about their hair. It only proves that they are sensitive and insecure. The point when they are not sensitive and comments about differences are not a big deal will be a huge step forward in the US. Brazil and several other countries are beyond that. The US is not the standard here... And this has little to do with developing vs developed country. This has to do with in Brazil whites and blacks are more intertwined, have a shared culture and history. In the US they are completely separate so they feel they need to walk on egg shells around eachother.

NP here and I am HIGHLY offended by your comment. How dare you insinuate that black people are sensitive and insecure about issues that stem from hundreds of years of oppression, racism and discrimination? Please get your head out of your ass.

PP you responded to here..

Just to start Brazilian slavery goes back further than US slavery.

Yet, I agree with you that there is a reason for the sensitivity and insecurity. Pointing out this fact is reality and I don't mean it to be offensive. When these comments cease to reflect/produce pain it will be an indication of progress in my eyes.

My issue is with your choice of words: sensitivity and insecurity. It stinks of the "chip on your shoulder" tag that folks like to hand out to black people whenever we say/do something that is disagreeable. Instead of worrying about the person who feels pain at an insult, how about focusing on changing the behaviors and mindsets of folks who make the comments?

Anonymous wrote:
Hilarious, what choice of words should I use... Are you claiming that AA culture is not insecure. It is! Stop caring what another person thinks about you, your hair or otherwise... This is one of the major ills that AA cannot get over.

CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Hilarious, what choice of words should I use... Are you claiming that AA culture is not insecure. It is! Stop caring what another person thinks about you, your hair or otherwise... This is one of the major ills that AA cannot get over.

I began writing out a furious response to this racist, ignorant, profoundly moronic post.

Then I realized that you just don't get it and likely never will, because your level of intelligence is as weak as your stubborn desire to enforce institutionalized racist ideas is strong, because that's the society you grew up in and it gives you comfort to reinforce those notions, while dismissing anyone who confronts your prejudice with rational, intelligent words.

Good luck to you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP but Brazil and India are not even comparable. The fact that person or others jokes about a type of hair is no more akin to racism than a red head joking about their hair color or a white person saying they are pale. The fact of the matter is Brazilians are infinitely more accepting of phenotypic and cultural differences than most countries on the planet including the US.

If a white person made a joke about nappy hair in America, do you think African Americans would just laugh it off? There has always been so much racial identity politics surrounding phenotypic differences that during the civil rights era, the Afro was an expression of celebrating pride in "nappy hair". I can guarantee you if someone who was not black made a joke about nappy hair in America today, the black community would blow up at him.

The point I was trying to make about the hair comment in Brazil - and I think I explained this above - was that in developing countries the sense of political correctness is different. Maybe people are misunderstanding that because I immediately talked about the Chinese cab driver next, and that was racism. In much of the developing world, people don't really have any sense of political correctness, or at least not the way Americans do. In India for example, you can't say the phrase "lower caste" or "untouchable" - the term is "scheduled caste" or "scheduled tribe". But I have also heard an Indian lady say to her tanned, sporty, outdoorsy child, "You look like a n*gro". Is she racist or just unaware that you can't say that? (and let's not discuss her color prejudice - that is different from racial prejudice) Well, I've seen how she treats Africans so I don't think she's racist, anymore than a white Brazilian who makes fun of "nappy hair". That was my point. Apologies if I didn't make this clear the first time.

PP you responded to... It has no bearing whether AA's get sensitive when someone talks about their hair. It only proves that they are sensitive and insecure. The point when they are not sensitive and comments about differences are not a big deal will be a huge step forward in the US. Brazil and several other countries are beyond that. The US is not the standard here... And this has little to do with developing vs developed country. This has to do with in Brazil whites and blacks are more intertwined, have a shared culture and history. In the US they are completely separate so they feel they need to walk on egg shells around eachother.

NP here and I am HIGHLY offended by your comment. How dare you insinuate that black people are sensitive and insecure about issues that stem from hundreds of years of oppression, racism and discrimination? Please get your head out of your ass.

PP you responded to here..

Just to start Brazilian slavery goes back further than US slavery.

Yet, I agree with you that there is a reason for the sensitivity and insecurity. Pointing out this fact is reality and I don't mean it to be offensive. When these comments cease to reflect/produce pain it will be an indication of progress in my eyes.

My issue is with your choice of words: sensitivity and insecurity. It stinks of the "chip on your shoulder" tag that folks like to hand out to black people whenever we say/do something that is disagreeable. Instead of worrying about the person who feels pain at an insult, how about focusing on changing the behaviors and mindsets of folks who make the comments?

Hilarious, what choice of words should I use... Are you claiming that AA culture is not insecure. It is! Stop caring what another person thinks about you, your hair or otherwise... This is one of the major ills that AA cannot get over.

Anonymous wrote:

CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Hilarious, what choice of words should I use... Are you claiming that AA culture is not insecure. It is! Stop caring what another person thinks about you, your hair or otherwise... This is one of the major ills that AA cannot get over.

I began writing out a furious response to this racist, ignorant, profoundly moronic post.

Then I realized that you just don't get it and likely never will, because your level of intelligence is as weak as your stubborn desire to enforce institutionalized racist ideas is strong, because that's the society you grew up in and it gives you comfort to reinforce those notions, while dismissing anyone who confronts your prejudice with rational, intelligent words.

Good luck to you.

This is not racist.. This is a cultural issue. How exactly is wishing AA stop caring what white society thinks about them racist? Furthermore what society did I grow up in? The US is bizarro land right now because anytime race come up everyone is supposed to clam and bow down to being PC. This is very hurtful to AA's and reinforces races as whites get to feel sorry for hem and feel superior.

Anonymous wrote:

CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Cindy: you're doing a good job here, and I'm in agreement with most of your comments/observations -- but that doesn't change the fact India is one of the least racially tolerant countries, which is what the thread is about.

This is what all my essays in this thread are about too. I haven't been talking about flowers this whole time, I've been talking about why India is not the least racially tolerant country in the world. So what about all this still has you persistently believing that India is the most racist place ever?

Cindy, I was born in India but have lived in the US for most of my life. Have visited India often for varying periods.

I would have to say that India (and for that matter Indians who spent their formative years in India) are not only conscious of race but of color and religion. It is endemic to every aspect of life there. The color of the skin is especially important which is why skin lightening products are huge sellers in India. A fair skinned person - especially a woman - is considered much more attractive than someone who is darker skinned which is why the matrimonial ads in India emphasize skin color. A woman who is light skinned but does not have particularly attractive features is more desirable than a darker skinned woman who may have better features.

Even in the US, immigrant parents are much more receptive to their children marrying a white American than an African American. Then there is an almost universal hostility among both Hindus and Indian Christians to marriage with a Muslim. Hindus and Christians prefer that their children marry within the same religion and the same community but are mildly tolerant when they choose to inter-marry but marrying a Muslim is considered taboo and the parents would generally not tolerate it.

There is open negative stereotyping of other races among many Indians who live in the US.

I think to suggest that race, color and religion are not major prejudices among Indians especially in India is just misleading. What is encouraging is that Indian children born and brought up in the US have managed to shed many of these prejudices their parents have brought with them.

I could cite many positives when it comes to Indians whether in India or the US but racial and religious tolerance is not among them.