India one of the least racially tolerant countries?

[Anonymous]

CindyBindy wrote:I pretty much made an account at this forum because I read this thread. Actually, because I read a bunch of virulent anti-Indian racist threads on this forum and decided I ought to register because clearly, this place is bundles of fun. By the way, I'm an Indian-American female. Hi!

Racial prejudice exists in India, but not to a greater extend than half the globe. You'll find that outside of Western nations, political correctness exists in different ways. In Brazil, African-origin/African-mixed Brazilians will joke openly about their "nappy hair" or laugh when white Brazilians joke about it. I've seen this happen. In Beijing, my Chinese cab driver told me that he hated giving black people rides because "they look like monkeys." I speak Mandarin extremely well so I do not think I misunderstood him.

I've been to Middle-eastern countries a million times and cannot measure the insane level of Arab ethno-centrism I've seen. Not just in the UAE but the entire Gulf. There are many Arabs (but adamantly not ALL Arabs) who despise anyone with darker skin, and have a special kind of distaste for non-Arab Muslims. Indians and Pakistanis bear the brunt of this discrimination because there are so many of them in the Middle-East.

And lest we think it's only those third world people hating on each other, let's not forget that since the recession began in America, our own homegrown white power movements are steadily growing: http://www.civilrights.org/publications/hatecrimes/white-supremacist.html

Another myth is that Indian society is homogeneous. I've never heard anything so ignorant in my entire life. Well apart from the idea that India is one of the least racially tolerant countries in the world. India, for those of you who confine your cultural knowledge to the Anglosphere, is basically Europe. It was cobbled together from kingdoms that had existed for centuries and were extremely distinct from each other - their languages were as different from each other as Spanish is from German (even more so, because while those languages share the Latin script, Indian languages do not share scripts), their clothes were different, literally everything was different. And the Indian population is made up of a huge variety of ethnicities, including Indians of Arab, Persian, European, Jewish, Afghan, and African descent.

Speaking of Judaism in India. It's existed in the country for centuries without once experiencing anti-Semitism. The two recorded times that did happen, the anti-Semitism was by Portuguese traders in Kerala (they destroyed a synagogue - the Hindu maharaja rebuilt it for the Calicut Jews), and recently in 2008 when Pakistani terrorists attacked Indian Jews in Mumbai. I don't think America has such a clean record, does it?

Now, if you're asking if there is a general lack of exposure to different nations in the modern world, that's true, because as vast as the Indian middle class is, it's not affluent enough to travel. There will be stereotypes about peoples they only know about through movies or novels or the media. However, there is a huge leap from that to, "the least racially tolerant country". Racial ignorance does not equate to racial intolerance. I've seen how friendly and polite Indians are to foreigners - even less "glamorous" foreigners like Africans or Arabs, who have the misfortune to carry bad stereotypes - with my own eyes. And in fact, being white will only help you in India. They'll think you're rich.

Maybe next time you get the urge to spew misinformed bs, you'll take a minute to pause and educate yourself first? Good luck.

So many racial slurs for you soooo little time. Did you really start your Indians aren't really racist thread with the colonial impact of the African diaspora in Brazil? GTFOH. Stick to what you know... For example I got a long lecture once, in India, about how Indians are the true Aryans. Have you all told the Aryan Brotherhood?

[CindyBindy]

Anonymous wrote:

So many racial slurs for you soooo little time. Did you really start your Indians aren't really racist thread with the colonial impact of the African diaspora in Brazil? GTFOH. Stick to what you know... For example I got a long lecture once, in India, about how Indians are the true Aryans. Have you all told the Aryan Brotherhood?

I'm not sure what is confusing you. The reason I brought up incidents in Brazil, China and the Gulf was to show how blinkered this topic was. All developing countries deal with racial ignorance and understanding political correctness, some more than others. Colonialism was never brought up anywhere in my post. You're the one who is reading colonialism into it. Maybe you should be sticking to what you know, or rather understanding that there is much about this topic that you don't know.

So where did you get this "lecture"? In a university setting, with some kind of institutional authority and societal approval behind it, or because you just happened to be in the company of an a**hole who doesn't bother to educate himself about anything that upsets his sense of confirmation bias? Hey guess what, once I met an old white man in New York who told me life was better when people like me knew my place and "didn't invade" his country. I wonder why I haven't written a rant about how all of America is xenophobic and racist! Oh I know why. Because I'm not you.

[CindyBindy]

Anonymous wrote:How can so many people grow up and be ignorant of the Indian caste system? Is this not taught in schools anymore? is world history not taught? Does no one read? See movies?

I'm going to assume this is some kind of sarcasm. So what's your point? I don't understand what you're driving at. If your goal is to point out that the caste system is some kind of indicator of racial intolerance, all I have to say is, 1) race has nothing to do with it, and 2) do not bring up caste because I can literally guarantee you won't know what you're talking about. Caste is incredibly complex and not necessarily religious. Even Indian-Americans don't understand it unless they take a few weeks to read a bunch of books on it. You won't understand it unless you grow up in it, and, despite being a cause of social ills, it's not the rigid hierarchy it's made out to be, nor is it some kind of central force in Indian society.

[Anonymous]

CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So many racial slurs for you soooo little time. Did you really start your Indians aren't really racist thread with the colonial impact of the African diaspora in Brazil? GTFOH. Stick to what you know... For example I got a long lecture once, in India, about how Indians are the true Aryans. Have you all told the Aryan Brotherhood?

I'm not sure what is confusing you. The reason I brought up incidents in Brazil, China and the Gulf was to show how blinkered this topic was. All developing countries deal with racial ignorance and understanding political correctness, some more than others. Colonialism was never brought up anywhere in my post. You're the one who is reading colonialism into it. Maybe you should be sticking to what you know, or rather understanding that there is much about this topic that you don't know.

So where did you get this "lecture"? In a university setting, with some kind of institutional authority and societal approval behind it, or because you just happened to be in the company of an a**hole who doesn't bother to educate himself about anything that upsets his sense of confirmation bias? Hey guess what, once I met an old white man in New York who told me life was better when people like me knew my place and "didn't invade" his country. I wonder why I haven't written a rant about how all of America is xenophobic and racist! Oh I know why. Because I'm not you.

Ummm. Actually I lived in Brazil as part of the priveleged class (which is FYI - based on money not color) and live here in the US as an African American. The mere fact you dismiss the intrinsic connection of colonialism and race in these countries causes me to question your "real world first hand experience". But keep telling the crew on here that will listen to you. Who knows they might believeyou but be clear only the most liberal ones will be "kinda ok" with their daughters dating one of your sons. I'm just sayin'

[Anonymous]

CindyBindy, I know you have good intentions when reviving these racially charged threads, but honestly if the thread is dead please just let it be. I guarantee you within a couple of weeks there will be another new Indian bashing thread, they're pretty regular on this forum and your posts would be great at that time.

~ Fellow Indian American female

[CindyBindy]

Anonymous wrote:

Ummm. Actually I lived in Brazil as part of the priveleged class (which is FYI - based on money not color) and live here in the US as an African American. The mere fact you dismiss the intrinsic connection of colonialism and race in these countries causes me to question your "real world first hand experience". But keep telling the crew on here that will listen to you. Who knows they might believeyou but be clear only the most liberal ones will be "kinda ok" with their daughters dating one of your sons. I'm just sayin'

I'm starting to wonder if English is your first language, because you clearly are having some kind reading comprehension problem here.

Color does matter in Brazil. It's not going to get you lynched or destroy your employment prospects, and I've never experienced racism and am not implying that everyone is a hooded tree-lynching KKK member there. But the politics of color, hair type and other such indicators exist in social relations even when people don't realize it's technically "racist". That. Was. My. Whole. Point. About. Political. Correctness.

I never "dismissed" colonialism. There is a difference between "not talking about colonialism because it's not part of an argument in which you are pointing out that racism is not exclusive to India and not worse in India than it is anywhere else in the developing world", and "not talking about colonialism because its effect on racism in developing countries is non-existent." Get your story straight.

By the way? I've interned in Brazil and two of my best friends are extremely wealthy Brazilians. One of them is going to be my host for the World Cup and they absolutely move in "privileged" circles, so I'm not sure you're out-snobbing anyone here. I also never introduced a debate about whether money is more important than color - unless you count that part in my original post where I said that poorer Indians like white people because they think they're rich? Oh shit wait, did I just imply that social status in India is based on money, not color? Oops!

CindyBindy, I know you have good intentions when reviving these racially charged threads, but honestly if the thread is dead please just let it be. I guarantee you within a couple of weeks there will be another new Indian bashing thread, they're pretty regular on this forum and your posts would be great at that time.

~ Fellow Indian American female

I know, I know. But I have a troll-magnet problem.

[Anonymous]

CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ummm. Actually I lived in Brazil as part of the priveleged class (which is FYI - based on money not color) and live here in the US as an African American. The mere fact you dismiss the intrinsic connection of colonialism and race in these countries causes me to question your "real world first hand experience". But keep telling the crew on here that will listen to you. Who knows they might believeyou but be clear only the most liberal ones will be "kinda ok" with their daughters dating one of your sons. I'm just sayin'

I'm starting to wonder if English is your first language, because you clearly are having some kind reading comprehension problem here.

Color does matter in Brazil. It's not going to get you lynched or destroy your employment prospects, and I've never experienced racism and am not implying that everyone is a hooded tree-lynching KKK member there. But the politics of color, hair type and other such indicators exist in social relations even when people don't realize it's technically "racist". That. Was. My. Whole. Point. About. Political. Correctness.

I never "dismissed" colonialism. There is a difference between "not talking about colonialism because it's not part of an argument in which you are pointing out that racism is not exclusive to India and not worse in India than it is anywhere else in the developing world", and "not talking about colonialism because its effect on racism in developing countries is non-existent." Get your story straight.

By the way? I've interned in Brazil and two of my best friends are extremely wealthy Brazilians. One of them is going to be my host for the World Cup and they absolutely move in "privileged" circles, so I'm not sure you're out-snobbing anyone here. I also never introduced a debate about whether money is more important than color - unless you count that part in my original post where I said that poorer Indians like white people because they think they're rich? Oh shit wait, did I just imply that social status in India is based on money, not color? Oops!

CindyBindy, I know you have good intentions when reviving these racially charged threads, but honestly if the thread is dead please just let it be. I guarantee you within a couple of weeks there will be another new Indian bashing thread, they're pretty regular on this forum and your posts would be great at that time.

~ Fellow Indian American female

I know, I know. But I have a troll-magnet problem.

Not PP but Brazil and India are not even comparable. The fact that person or others jokes about a type of hair is no more akin to racism than a red head joking about their hair color or a white person saying they are pale. The fact of the matter is Brazilians are infinitely more accepting of phenotypic and cultural differences than most countries on the planet including the US.

[Anonymous]

Japan is pretty racially intolerant. If you are born in Japan, it doesn't make you automatically considered Japanese, i.e. you could still be considered Korean if you have Korean parents.

Also their term for a 1/2 Japanese, 1/2 other race person is "hafu", literally the English word for 1/2, like they are 1/2 a person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Japan is pretty racially intolerant. If you are born in Japan, it doesn't make you automatically considered Japanese, i.e. you could still be considered Korean if you have Korean parents.

Also their term for a 1/2 Japanese, 1/2 other race person is "hafu", literally the English word for 1/2, like they are 1/2 a person.

Same thing in the US.... Asians born here are not viewed as American even if they've been here multiple generations. Lets not even get into blacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Japan is pretty racially intolerant. If you are born in Japan, it doesn't make you automatically considered Japanese, i.e. you could still be considered Korean if you have Korean parents.

Also their term for a 1/2 Japanese, 1/2 other race person is "hafu", literally the English word for 1/2, like they are 1/2 a person.

Same thing in the US.... Asians born here are not viewed as American even if they've been here multiple generations. Lets not even get into blacks.

America is one of the least racist countries in the world.

http://www.indianewengland.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications::Article&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=910A9778C86143959605979D937EE717

[CindyBindy]

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP but Brazil and India are not even comparable. The fact that person or others jokes about a type of hair is no more akin to racism than a red head joking about their hair color or a white person saying they are pale. The fact of the matter is Brazilians are infinitely more accepting of phenotypic and cultural differences than most countries on the planet including the US.

If a white person made a joke about nappy hair in America, do you think African Americans would just laugh it off? There has always been so much racial identity politics surrounding phenotypic differences that during the civil rights era, the Afro was an expression of celebrating pride in "nappy hair". I can guarantee you if someone who was not black made a joke about nappy hair in America today, the black community would blow up at him.

The point I was trying to make about the hair comment in Brazil - and I think I explained this above - was that in developing countries the sense of political correctness is different. Maybe people are misunderstanding that because I immediately talked about the Chinese cab driver next, and that was racism. In much of the developing world, people don't really have any sense of political correctness, or at least not the way Americans do. In India for example, you can't say the phrase "lower caste" or "untouchable" - the term is "scheduled caste" or "scheduled tribe". But I have also heard an Indian lady say to her tanned, sporty, outdoorsy child, "You look like a n*gro". Is she racist or just unaware that you can't say that? (and let's not discuss her color prejudice - that is different from racial prejudice) Well, I've seen how she treats Africans so I don't think she's racist, anymore than a white Brazilian who makes fun of "nappy hair". That was my point. Apologies if I didn't make this clear the first time.

[Anonymous]

CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not PP but Brazil and India are not even comparable. The fact that person or others jokes about a type of hair is no more akin to racism than a red head joking about their hair color or a white person saying they are pale. The fact of the matter is Brazilians are infinitely more accepting of phenotypic and cultural differences than most countries on the planet including the US.

If a white person made a joke about nappy hair in America, do you think African Americans would just laugh it off? There has always been so much racial identity politics surrounding phenotypic differences that during the civil rights era, the Afro was an expression of celebrating pride in "nappy hair". I can guarantee you if someone who was not black made a joke about nappy hair in America today, the black community would blow up at him.

The point I was trying to make about the hair comment in Brazil - and I think I explained this above - was that in developing countries the sense of political correctness is different. Maybe people are misunderstanding that because I immediately talked about the Chinese cab driver next, and that was racism. In much of the developing world, people don't really have any sense of political correctness, or at least not the way Americans do. In India for example, you can't say the phrase "lower caste" or "untouchable" - the term is "scheduled caste" or "scheduled tribe". But I have also heard an Indian lady say to her tanned, sporty, outdoorsy child, "You look like a n*gro". Is she racist or just unaware that you can't say that? Well, I've seen how she treats Africans so I don't think she's racist, anymore than a white Brazilian who makes fun of "nappy hair". That was my point. Apologies if I didn't make this clear the first time.

And while Brazilian society is in general accepting of diversity, I have personally seen instances where color pl

Cindy: you're doing a good job here, and I'm in agreement with most of your comments/observations -- but that doesn't change the fact India is one of the least racially tolerant countries, which is what the thread is about.
Anymore than someone can debunk the perception Nigeria is one of the most corrupt, or North Korea the most oppressive etc.

I get the feeling "racism" is defined as a comment that hurts someone's feelings even if true.

[CindyBindy]

Anonymous wrote:

Cindy: you're doing a good job here, and I'm in agreement with most of your comments/observations -- but that doesn't change the fact India is one of the least racially tolerant countries, which is what the thread is about.

This is what all my essays in this thread are about too. I haven't been talking about flowers this whole time, I've been talking about why India is not the least racially tolerant country in the world. So what about all this still has you persistently believing that India is the most racist place ever?

[Anonymous]

CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Cindy: you're doing a good job here, and I'm in agreement with most of your comments/observations -- but that doesn't change the fact India is one of the least racially tolerant countries, which is what the thread is about.

This is what all my essays in this thread are about too. I haven't been talking about flowers this whole time, I've been talking about why India is not the least racially tolerant country in the world. So what about all this still has you persistently believing that India is the most racist place ever?

Cindy, I was born in India but have lived in the US for most of my life. Have visited India often for varying periods.

I would have to say that India (and for that matter Indians who spent their formative years in India) are not only conscious of race but of color and religion. It is endemic to every aspect of life there. The color of the skin is especially important which is why skin lightening products are huge sellers in India. A fair skinned person - especially a woman - is considered much more attractive than someone who is darker skinned which is why the matrimonial ads in India emphasize skin color. A woman who is light skinned but does not have particularly attractive features is more desirable than a darker skinned woman who may have better features.

Even in the US, immigrant parents are much more receptive to their children marrying a white American than an African American. Then there is an almost universal hostility among both Hindus and Indian Christians to marriage with a Muslim. Hindus and Christians prefer that their children marry within the same religion and the same community but are mildly tolerant when they choose to inter-marry but marrying a Muslim is considered taboo and the parents would generally not tolerate it.

There is open negative stereotyping of other races among many Indians who live in the US.

I think to suggest that race, color and religion are not major prejudices among Indians especially in India is just misleading. What is encouraging is that Indian children born and brought up in the US have managed to shed many of these prejudices their parents have brought with them.

I could cite many positives when it comes to Indians whether in India or the US but racial and religious tolerance is not among them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

CindyBindy wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Cindy: you're doing a good job here, and I'm in agreement with most of your comments/observations -- but that doesn't change the fact India is one of the least racially tolerant countries, which is what the thread is about.

This is what all my essays in this thread are about too. I haven't been talking about flowers this whole time, I've been talking about why India is not the least racially tolerant country in the world. So what about all this still has you persistently believing that India is the most racist place ever?

Cindy, I was born in India but have lived in the US for most of my life. Have visited India often for varying periods.

I would have to say that India (and for that matter Indians who spent their formative years in India) are not only conscious of race but of color and religion. It is endemic to every aspect of life there. The color of the skin is especially important which is why skin lightening products are huge sellers in India. A fair skinned person - especially a woman - is considered much more attractive than someone who is darker skinned which is why the matrimonial ads in India emphasize skin color. A woman who is light skinned but does not have particularly attractive features is more desirable than a darker skinned woman who may have better features.

Even in the US, immigrant parents are much more receptive to their children marrying a white American than an African American. Then there is an almost universal hostility among both Hindus and Indian Christians to marriage with a Muslim. Hindus and Christians prefer that their children marry within the same religion and the same community but are mildly tolerant when they choose to inter-marry but marrying a Muslim is considered taboo and the parents would generally not tolerate it.

There is open negative stereotyping of other races among many Indians who live in the US.

I think to suggest that race, color and religion are not major prejudices among Indians especially in India is just misleading. What is encouraging is that Indian children born and brought up in the US have managed to shed many of these prejudices their parents have brought with them.

I could cite many positives when it comes to Indians whether in India or the US but racial and religious tolerance is not among them.

Thank-you. Finally someone who knows what they are talking about.