Virginia Personhood Amendment - anyone know the consequences of this?

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[Post New]02/18/2012 08:19
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Santorum, a devout Catholic, was lucky that he access to non-Catholic hospitals, unlike many families that face this horrible choice and are denied options at Catholics facilities.


Some of you are really clueless. The level of misinformation and hysteria in this thread is laughable.
[Post New]02/18/2012 08:32
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Santorum, a devout Catholic, was lucky that he access to non-Catholic hospitals, unlike many families that face this horrible choice and are denied options at Catholics facilities.


Some of you are really clueless. The level of misinformation and hysteria in this thread is laughable.


Really? Please inform us. I'd love to hear how any of what was stated above is untrue.
[Post New]02/18/2012 08:43
quote
RantingAtheist
Member Offline
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Santorum, a devout Catholic, was lucky that he access to non-Catholic hospitals, unlike many families that face this horrible choice and are denied options at Catholics facilities.


Some of you are really clueless. The level of misinformation and hysteria in this thread is laughable.


Remember, in Wingnuttia, "misinformation" is defined as "things which are well-documented and true but which cause me pangs of cognitive dissonance".

[Post New]02/18/2012 13:17
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Santorum, a devout Catholic, was lucky that he access to non-Catholic hospitals, unlike many families that face this horrible choice and are denied options at Catholics facilities.


Some of you are really clueless. The level of misinformation and hysteria in this thread is laughable.


Really? Please inform us. I'd love to hear how any of what was stated above is untrue.


Still waiting. Silence. Don't accuse anyone of cluelessness unless you are prepared to back up your statement.
[Post New]02/18/2012 13:41
quote
Anonymous
Here the full text in all it's glory:

from
http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?121+sum+HB1

Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

1. ? 1. The life of each human being begins at conception.

? 2. Unborn children have protectable interests in life, health, and well-being.

? 3. The natural parents of unborn children have protectable interests in the life, health, and well-being of their unborn child.

? 4. The laws of this Commonwealth shall be interpreted and construed to acknowledge on behalf of the unborn child at every stage of development all the rights, privileges, and immunities available to other persons, citizens, and residents of this Commonwealth, subject only to the Constitution of the United States and decisional interpretations thereof by the United States Supreme Court and specific provisions to the contrary in the statutes and constitution of this Commonwealth.

? 5. As used in this section, the term "unborn children" or "unborn child" shall include any unborn child or children or the offspring of human beings from the moment of conception until birth at every stage of biological development.

? 6. Nothing in this section shall be interpreted as creating a cause of action against a woman for indirectly harming her unborn child by failing to properly care for herself or by failing to follow any particular program of prenatal care.

? 7. Nothing in this section shall be interpreted as affecting lawful assisted conception.
[Post New]02/18/2012 13:43
quote
Anonymous
And sorry for the grammar typo.
[Post New]02/19/2012 21:40
quote
Anonymous
Well, if we think logically about the consequences...since nearly half of fertilized eggs are spontaneously aborted, most before the woman knows she is pregnant, then every menstrual flow will have to be collected and analyzed to see if it contains a "person." And if it does, then there will have to be a coroner's investigation, a determination of whether the woman did anything that contributed to the expulsion of the fertilized egg, etc. Would it help if we broadcast this scenario?
[Post New]02/19/2012 21:42
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Well, if we think logically about the consequences...since nearly half of fertilized eggs are spontaneously aborted, most before the woman knows she is pregnant, then every menstrual flow will have to be collected and analyzed to see if it contains a "person." And if it does, then there will have to be a coroner's investigation, a determination of whether the woman did anything that contributed to the expulsion of the fertilized egg, etc. Would it help if we broadcast this scenario?


Good point.
[Post New]02/19/2012 21:56
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, if we think logically about the consequences...since nearly half of fertilized eggs are spontaneously aborted, most before the woman knows she is pregnant, then every menstrual flow will have to be collected and analyzed to see if it contains a "person." And if it does, then there will have to be a coroner's investigation, a determination of whether the woman did anything that contributed to the expulsion of the fertilized egg, etc. Would it help if we broadcast this scenario?


Good point.


This was a major point of contention with the Personhood movement in MS as well. If a woman miscarries, is she subject to investigation? When a medical claim with a diagnosis code related to miscarriage is submitted, is this information handed over to authorities? What if she took ibuprofen that subsequently thinned her blood and she miscarried? What if she was unknowingly pregnant and had alcohol? The possibilities really are endless.

I don't see this passing in any way but the fact that the Personhood movement is in VA and the fact that elected officials have humored it to this point greatly disturbs me.
[Post New]02/19/2012 22:36
quote
Anonymous

I don't see this passing in any way but the fact that the Personhood movement is in VA and the fact that elected officials have humored it to this point greatly disturbs me.


I disagree with the PP. There is indeed a good chance that this will pass. It has already passed the VA House and the Senate is currently tied on the issue. GOP Governor McDonnell has previously indicated that he would sign this bill.

Peoples -- This Amendment might actually pass.

That this is a VA Constitutional Amendment and not a Bill is important. It will be very difficult to repeal later. This means that when a sperm and egg meet, personhood rights attach. IUDs, Plan B, abortions, aspirins between the legs, what have you, will be threatened once the U.S. Supreme Court allows for this. Since 1965, the Supreme Court (in Griswold?) stated that it is unconstitutional to interfere with contraception, and then there was Roe v. Wade. If these decisions are ever overturned, the VA Personhood Amendment would spring into effect for these purposes, I presume basically banning them, or at least making this very difficult.

This is taking us back, WAY back in time. I cannot in my right mind equate the right of "personhood" to a zygote. Just can't. If it is between the life of a wife and a gamete, whose interests weigh out? This personhood amendment suggests it would be person against person. This is truly scary, folks. IUDs that prevent implantation would = murder.

Apparently such birth control is equated to a "murder of convenience" in the eyes of ultra-right conservatives.

Well, I'm no fan of the over-sexualization of our culture, but this is so anti-sex, anti-common sense and anti-birth control, anti-family planning, it is like breathtaking.

Time to wake up! I just did.
[Post New]02/20/2012 13:42
quote
Anonymous
Hm. I wonder if this means that means for fertilized frozen in storage. How to dispose of? Implant them in a woman? Or freeze them indefinitely? This is so weird.
[Post New]02/20/2012 15:16
quote
Anonymous
another thing. Pregnant women will not be able to travel outside the country unless they have a passport for the fetus, just as now we cannot take an infant with us unless the infant has a passport. So, how will we issue passports to embryos and fetuses? We won't know their sex so can't give them a name. And what about the use of date of birth on official documents? We would have to use date of conception, but how do we know that for certain?

and this only scratches the surface of the consequences.
[Post New]02/20/2012 15:35
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Hm. I wonder if this means that means for fertilized frozen in storage. How to dispose of? Implant them in a woman? Or freeze them indefinitely? This is so weird.


What if the family got the children they wanted from IVF and have no use for the embryos? Are they now required to pay for storage each year and required to keep embryos that will never be used?
[Post New]02/20/2012 15:49
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Well, if we think logically about the consequences...since nearly half of fertilized eggs are spontaneously aborted, most before the woman knows she is pregnant, then every menstrual flow will have to be collected and analyzed to see if it contains a "person." And if it does, then there will have to be a coroner's investigation, a determination of whether the woman did anything that contributed to the expulsion of the fertilized egg, etc. Would it help if we broadcast this scenario?


Good point.


Morons.
[Post New]02/20/2012 16:19
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
I don't see this passing in any way but the fact that the Personhood movement is in VA and the fact that elected officials have humored it to this point greatly disturbs me.



I disagree with the PP. There is indeed a good chance that this will pass. It has already passed the VA House and the Senate is currently tied on the issue. GOP Governor McDonnell has previously indicated that he would sign this bill.

Peoples -- This Amendment might actually pass.

That this is a VA Constitutional Amendment and not a Bill is important. It will be very difficult to repeal later. This means that when a sperm and egg meet, personhood rights attach. IUDs, Plan B, abortions, aspirins between the legs, what have you, will be threatened once the U.S. Supreme Court allows for this. Since 1965, the Supreme Court (in Griswold?) stated that it is unconstitutional to interfere with contraception, and then there was Roe v. Wade. If these decisions are ever overturned, the VA Personhood Amendment would spring into effect for these purposes, I presume basically banning them, or at least making this very difficult.

This is taking us back, WAY back in time. I cannot in my right mind equate the right of "personhood" to a zygote. Just can't. If it is between the life of a wife and a gamete, whose interests weigh out? This personhood amendment suggests it would be person against person. This is truly scary, folks. IUDs that prevent implantation would = murder.

Apparently such birth control is equated to a "murder of convenience" in the eyes of ultra-right conservatives.

Well, I'm no fan of the over-sexualization of our culture, but this is so anti-sex, anti-common sense and anti-birth control, anti-family planning, it is like breathtaking.

Time to wake up! I just did.


I'm glad, not the you were necessarily alone in "being asleep". Lots of men and women took the warnings by Planned Parenthood and other reproduction rights groups for granted, or accused them of "Chicken Little" warnings. There is a very active fringe group of the anti choice community that very much wants to repeal reproductive rights as the first step toward repealing women's rights in general, and turning the country into a "Christian" (uh, which Bible are they using, exactly?) theocracy. It's called Christian Reconstructionism. Sanatorium believes in it. And, sadly as the Republican has dragged itself and the country further to the right, it no longer strikes so many people as wrong.
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