Anonymous wrote:The Rs have already announced that they plan to take 3 congressional members off committees ...basically because they don't like them

Anonymous wrote:It would have worked, if they had succeeded.

Right now there are still republicans who are "too scared" to denounce Trump because they are afraid his crazy followers will come for them and their families. It's insane.

People in the Republican party better become braver or they will actually be responsible for us turning into an oligarchy instead of a democracy.

Anonymous wrote:Love this thread for the insight into certain mindsights.

There was no coup. How could there be - even the protesters, ahem, rioters, didn't have weapons.

Worst case outcome would have been that the certification is delayed a day or two. A coup can't happen when there is no support for it, no armed support, no legal support, no constitutional support, no one at the courts to back it up. Nothing, nada, zip. So how could a "coup" work due to sub 1k protesters, ahem rioters running around Congress?

Trump is an egoistical moron and all he wanted was lots of noise and fuss and protesters but he never expected anything meaningful to happen.

And, even if in the most extreme hypothetical scenario, somehow some legalistic coup did happen (har har har) of course people wouldn't have taken it lying down. The Democrats have no problems churning out millions for BLM protests. Naturally there would have been mass protests everywhere and in DC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump would then be an unconstitutional ruler of the US. Ivanka would be Vice=President and heir. The rest, as they say, is history.

We would have rule by fiat. Anyone speaking out of turn would be punished. Forums like this one shut down, etc.

The US would then be in an unholy alliance with autocrats around the world serving their oligarch masters. In the US, that means the Koch's, Prince's etc. The little people are chattel to serve the oligarchs and business elites.

We have seen many dystopian movies like this. Dark times indeed.

And...we are not out of the woods on this.

nope. this is why people are screaming about the new laws in R states and the placement of Trumpian hacks into positions of power in the election process.

The pieces are being put into place.

This is why people are beyond pi$$ed at Manchin and Sinema for their nonsense on the filibuster

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would have worked, if they had succeeded.

Right now there are still republicans who are "too scared" to denounce Trump because they are afraid his crazy followers will come for them and their families. It's insane.

People in the Republican party better become braver or they will actually be responsible for us turning into an oligarchy instead of a democracy.

This. Those in power have to do the right thing, uphold the constitution. If they falter due to corruption, fear, or greed, our democracy crumbles. I had no idea how close we were to all of this until January 6.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most people would just go along. It would have the air of legality to it, and most people just don’t pay much attention. If they did, we wouldn’t be where we are.

Yup, lots of people would've shrugged their shoulders and gone back to their social media habits. The veneer of legality would keep most Americans placated. Additionally, the vast majority of people don't even understand what is in Constitution, how elections are conducted, etc. They are wholly ignorant as to the process.

Frankly, it takes the money of only one radical & committed billionaire to fund the whole thing. A single billionaire can take down the US government if they want it bad enough.

you mean like russian oligarchs?

Ironically, Putin came down hard on the oligarchs because he understood the power they would wield with that much money. They are under his thumb and do his bidding. The are protected and free to operate, if they support Putin and stay away from domestic opposition.

In Russia, the oligarchs are an arm of the state. In the US, oligarchs are trying to take over the state.

BlueFredneck wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Rs have already announced that they plan to take 3 congressional members off committees ...basically because they don't like them

Omar has probably earned it to some extent, as she seems to have a bigger anti-Semitism problem than the other Squad members. The other two are just retributions imho.

BlueFredneck wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Rs have already announced that they plan to take 3 congressional members off committees ...basically because they don't like them

Omar has probably earned it to some extent, as she seems to have a bigger anti-Semitism problem than the other Squad members. The other two are just retributions imho.

BlueFredneck wrote:We're assuming that:
1) states initially certified results
2) the December flurry of lawsuits went down in flames as before.
3) no evidence of actual fraud emerged.

Remember, New!Congress has already been seated.

I think Perdue's term had ended pending results of the election. Loeffler got to stick around, since she was filling out a term that naturally expired on 1/3/2023. Perdue had to go back home since his term had already expired and his re-election was not yet done. So ... raw #'s, barring any illness or such:

House Raw #s: D 222, R 213
Senate Raw #s: R 51, D 48
House delegations by state: R 30, D 19, Split 1 (several R delegations do have members that voted to certify the election, so it's not as impregnable as it might seem). I think IA had a House member that hadn't been seated just yet.

I'm assuming your POD (point of departure) is January 6, Pence says some mumbo-jumbo about electors in several states (enough to prevent Biden from reaching 270). There is NO violent storming of the Capital at least not here. I don't know how openly it's known by Congress, law enforcement, DoD, etc., etc., that there's a few hundred well-armed militia types prepared to move in "if necessary."

Democrats demand a vote to halt the counting. I know they'd have won in the House and I can't see Romney or Murkowski sitting on their hands (could this be filibustered?)

Lawsuits are filed within minutes, both by Pence asserting his right to refuse to certify the results, and by Democrats asserting Pence was going off script.

Never Trump Republicans angrily denounce everything involved with this. McConnell stays quiet (for now).

A motion to impeach Trump and Pence is filed and passes the House by the end of the day, probably with 30-40 Republicans joining in this time.

Multiple Cabinet officials resign in protest. All living former Presidents issue a joint statement insisting that Trump step down at noon on January 20.

The Dow goes down 8-10%. Two circuit breakers are tripped. The Fed meets in all sorts of emergency meetings.

The bleeding in the Dow is staunched - by day's end - by the Fed issuing a statement that quantitative easing would be unlimited. The ECB, BoJ, and CCB all issue similar statements.

In the next 24-48 hours, protests emerge all over the nation, dwarfing the George Floyd protests in size, and with an eclectic mix of races, political viewpoints, etc. International media is horrified.

I would not be surprised if 20 million people turned up across the nation, with DC, LA, NYC, and Chicago pushing in the upper six figures.

Some turn violent, with a mix of "native" violence, police/alt-right provocateurs, and excess police force turning formerly peaceful protests into violence. In a few cases, police join the demonstrators. Again, all this dwarfs the George Floyd protests.

Smaller (relatively speaking) protests in support of Pence's move emerge.

CEOs meet with each other, political leaders, and other movers and shakers, insisting on some sort of order. Celebrities of varying degrees of influence wring their hands, with a few exceptions celebrating Pence's move.

I'm assuming the 12th Amendment debate in the House would start the evening of the 6th and go on through the 7th and 8th. If we go off voting to certify, Biden would still win, as WY, AK, SD, and ND all voted to certify, IA and PA would have a R "defector" each, and ID would be split. Several other states would need just one R to "defect" and split their delegations or turn them to the D's.

I suspect - but could be wrong - that Biden would win the House delegation vote by something like a 27-20-3 split.

This is another opportunity for Trump to have a rally and a possible violent storming of the Capital if things don't look to be going his way here. I don't see 1/8 ending in this timeline any differently than 1/6 did in OTL.

SCOTUS would've been forced to rule before 1/20. If Biden wins the 12th Amendment vote, SCOTUS would rule that was done all good and proper and the question is now moot. If Biden lost, it'd require a ruling on whether Pence's move to refuse to certify was legally sound. I *think* they'd have voted that it wasn't sound but it would be a 6-3 or 7-2 vote here.

Bush v Gore was accepted simply b/c Florida was *that* close and both parties seemed to indicate they'd have conceded gracefully. The closest state in 2020 (AZ) was a good TEN times the widest possible margin in FL in 2000 in raw votes. In terms of percentage, the closest state was GA, a good TWENTY-FIVE times bigger margin than FL 2000.

Inauguration - if there had been no large scale actual violence beforehand, I could see the establishment being caught flat footed and things turning real ugly, real quick as the die hard Stop the Steal people would've been emboldened and not shamed.

Anonymous wrote:

BlueFredneck wrote:We're assuming that:
1) states initially certified results
2) the December flurry of lawsuits went down in flames as before.
3) no evidence of actual fraud emerged.

Remember, New!Congress has already been seated.

I think Perdue's term had ended pending results of the election. Loeffler got to stick around, since she was filling out a term that naturally expired on 1/3/2023. Perdue had to go back home since his term had already expired and his re-election was not yet done. So ... raw #'s, barring any illness or such:

House Raw #s: D 222, R 213
Senate Raw #s: R 51, D 48
House delegations by state: R 30, D 19, Split 1 (several R delegations do have members that voted to certify the election, so it's not as impregnable as it might seem). I think IA had a House member that hadn't been seated just yet.

I'm assuming your POD (point of departure) is January 6, Pence says some mumbo-jumbo about electors in several states (enough to prevent Biden from reaching 270). There is NO violent storming of the Capital at least not here. I don't know how openly it's known by Congress, law enforcement, DoD, etc., etc., that there's a few hundred well-armed militia types prepared to move in "if necessary."

Democrats demand a vote to halt the counting. I know they'd have won in the House and I can't see Romney or Murkowski sitting on their hands (could this be filibustered?)

Lawsuits are filed within minutes, both by Pence asserting his right to refuse to certify the results, and by Democrats asserting Pence was going off script.

Never Trump Republicans angrily denounce everything involved with this. McConnell stays quiet (for now).

A motion to impeach Trump and Pence is filed and passes the House by the end of the day, probably with 30-40 Republicans joining in this time.

Multiple Cabinet officials resign in protest. All living former Presidents issue a joint statement insisting that Trump step down at noon on January 20.

The Dow goes down 8-10%. Two circuit breakers are tripped. The Fed meets in all sorts of emergency meetings.

The bleeding in the Dow is staunched - by day's end - by the Fed issuing a statement that quantitative easing would be unlimited. The ECB, BoJ, and CCB all issue similar statements.

In the next 24-48 hours, protests emerge all over the nation, dwarfing the George Floyd protests in size, and with an eclectic mix of races, political viewpoints, etc. International media is horrified.

I would not be surprised if 20 million people turned up across the nation, with DC, LA, NYC, and Chicago pushing in the upper six figures.

Some turn violent, with a mix of "native" violence, police/alt-right provocateurs, and excess police force turning formerly peaceful protests into violence. In a few cases, police join the demonstrators. Again, all this dwarfs the George Floyd protests.

Smaller (relatively speaking) protests in support of Pence's move emerge.

CEOs meet with each other, political leaders, and other movers and shakers, insisting on some sort of order. Celebrities of varying degrees of influence wring their hands, with a few exceptions celebrating Pence's move.

I'm assuming the 12th Amendment debate in the House would start the evening of the 6th and go on through the 7th and 8th. If we go off voting to certify, Biden would still win, as WY, AK, SD, and ND all voted to certify, IA and PA would have a R "defector" each, and ID would be split. Several other states would need just one R to "defect" and split their delegations or turn them to the D's.

I suspect - but could be wrong - that Biden would win the House delegation vote by something like a 27-20-3 split.

This is another opportunity for Trump to have a rally and a possible violent storming of the Capital if things don't look to be going his way here. I don't see 1/8 ending in this timeline any differently than 1/6 did in OTL.

SCOTUS would've been forced to rule before 1/20. If Biden wins the 12th Amendment vote, SCOTUS would rule that was done all good and proper and the question is now moot. If Biden lost, it'd require a ruling on whether Pence's move to refuse to certify was legally sound. I *think* they'd have voted that it wasn't sound but it would be a 6-3 or 7-2 vote here.

Bush v Gore was accepted simply b/c Florida was *that* close and both parties seemed to indicate they'd have conceded gracefully. The closest state in 2020 (AZ) was a good TEN times the widest possible margin in FL in 2000 in raw votes. In terms of percentage, the closest state was GA, a good TWENTY-FIVE times bigger margin than FL 2000.

Inauguration - if there had been no large scale actual violence beforehand, I could see the establishment being caught flat footed and things turning real ugly, real quick as the die hard Stop the Steal people would've been emboldened and not shamed.

This right here. JFC.

Democrats pulled together a f((king pussy parade of millions right after Trump was duly elected in 2017! But if the election wasn't certified in 2020, people would just roll over? Are you kidding me? Are you the "I'm going to mask forever because Joe said so crowd?"

Maybe those who are totally falling in line with everything the government tells them, but not all of us are lemmings. And there are processes in place for this kind of thing, which is why we have 3 branches of government.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Rs have already announced that they plan to take 3 congressional members off committees ...basically because they don't like them

Just like Pelosi.