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Anonymous wrote:jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:Any thoughts on how the BMW EVs drives compared to BMW ICE? Perhaps they are not comparable beasts?? I am trying to adjust to the switch in many ICE vehicles from to V6 twin turbo.
My previous car was a BMW 135i which had a straight six twin turbo. The main difference with the i4 is that it is larger and its suspension is not as firm. As far as power goes, it is very similar. My understanding is that the i4 was tuned to feel like an ICE car because BMW wanted to make switching seamless. With the i4, by default, one pedal driving is not much of a thing. Since that was my first EV, I didn't know anything about one pedal driving. But all our other EVs have it and I got used to it from them. Now I am a big fan of one pedal driving. That is probably the biggest difference between EVs and ICE that I have found.
Thanks for your thoughts. My brother drives an X Plaid and the power is intense. I find the power of a twin turbo too much when it kicks in, especially in lighter cars. But I compare a BMW (especially a V8) as like a suction cup on the road. Extremely good handling. I haven't loved the hesitation, then take off of a V6 twin turbo in a lighter car. But I love BMWs, so have been curious about their EVs. But I've also wondered if EVs in general would have that same lighter but more powerful feel, if that makes sense.
EVs are heavy so I don't think they will feel light to you. In our i4, you can feel the weight when cornering. But the weight is in the floor so it has a good center of gravity and handling is still good. Plenty of power.
Anonymous wrote:How do you check the health of the battery when buying a used ev? What else is important to check?
How you check the battery is car dependent. There is an app called eFlow that works with BMW, MINI, Audi, Ford, Porsche, and VW EVs that will provide lots of data about the battery. It requires an ODB2 reader. You can buy a wireless one for less than $30. The BMW i3 also has a secret service menu that, if you know the correct codes, you can get into. In the worst case, just charge the car up to 100% and see what it says the range is. That will not necessarily be accurate, but it is better than nothing.
Also, cars.com has partnered with Recurrent which is a company that provides reports about battery status. It doesn't work with all brands, but for several you can simply click and see the report.
If you know what make and model of car in which you are interested, look for a forum for that car. Then check for the common problems and check the car for those. Also get the Carfax report. It might show the common problems have already been fixed.
Anonymous wrote:Any thoughts on how the BMW EVs drives compared to BMW ICE? Perhaps they are not comparable beasts?? I am trying to adjust to the switch in many ICE vehicles from to V6 twin turbo.
My previous car was a BMW 135i which had a straight six twin turbo. The main difference with the i4 is that it is larger and its suspension is not as firm. As far as power goes, it is very similar. My understanding is that the i4 was tuned to feel like an ICE car because BMW wanted to make switching seamless. With the i4, by default, one pedal driving is not much of a thing. Since that was my first EV, I didn't know anything about one pedal driving. But all our other EVs have it and I got used to it from them. Now I am a big fan of one pedal driving. That is probably the biggest difference between EVs and ICE that I have found.
Anonymous wrote:jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:Jeff, which model of the i4 did you decide on and are you happy with the car?
But, as I said initially, we have done five 1500 mile trips in it. It is very comfortable on trips and we just have to accept that we will be taking a break every two hours or so. We haven't had a single problem with it and I highly recommend the car.
DP, but why the breaks so often? Uncomfortable? Or is that due to needing charging or something?
Due to the need to charge. The car is very comfortable. The nature of EV batteries is that they charge the fastest at their lowest state of charge. Charging from 80% to 100% is very slow and may take as long as 10%-80%. Therefore, you normally only charge to 80% unless you have no choice.
What's the average charge time for say, 25% to 75%? Is that the 2 hour mentioned, or would that take longer than 2 hours on average?
No, the two hours is roughly the time we drive between stops on long trips. Sometimes closer to 2 1/2 hours. Charging time is highly dependent on the car because some have much better charging. But, you can expect about 20 minutes for a 25% to 75% charge with most new cars. Some will be faster and some slower, but that is probably a good ballpark.
There are different strategies. My preference is to stay at least 30 minutes when we stop to charge and get as much of a charge during that time as we can. However, in most cars the charging curve is very high at a low state of charge and then starts to drop at some point, often near 50%. So some drivers like to run their batteries very low and then charge from say 5% to 50% and then get back on the road. They are only charging during the highest part of their charging curves and, therefore, spending less time charging. I will tend to do 20% - 80% charges. This is all on DC fast chargers, of course, which we only use during long trips. At home, everything is slower level 2 chargers which take hours.
Anonymous wrote:jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:What are the average lifespans of the EV batteries and vehicles?
Without a cooling system or oil system?, seems like there wouldn't be as much to break on an EV, but not really familiar with them.
Assuming they get to where they don't hold a charge after a while, so are there aftermarket options that are affordable for replacing entire battery systems, similar to rebuilding or buying an ICE engine?
The lifespan of the batteries is a controversial topic. The newer technologies used in today's batteries haven't been around long enough for real life tests. So everything is basically theoretical. All EV batteries are warrantied for 8 years. So you don't have to worry during that period. There have been a number of recent studies that show that today's batteries might out live the car. A couple of things we do know is that there is a drop off in battery capacity right at the beginning of usage. That is only a few percent. After that, if the battery is well cared for, drop off is very gradual. Since the majority of today's EV owners are sort early adopters who take an interest in their cars, it is not uncommon for EV owners to be obsessed with battery care. I bought two used EVs and in both cases the batteries were in great shape. In the case of the i3, the battery actually showed more capacity than it was rated for new. Obviously, BMW had been conservative in their specifications and, when new, the battery probably had more than the stated capacity.
One problem currently with batteries is that the best and the cheapest come from China. Therefore, in the US we either can't get them at all or they are expensive. The result is that replacement options are not particularly good. In Europe, people are replacing their batteries fairly often. All of this may change in the future as U.S. battery manufacturing catches up. Also, as EVs become more widespread, there will likely be more batteries available from cars that were totaled and can be picked up cheaply.
Two other things about batteries. The early LEAFs only had air cooling for their batteries and this hurt the batteries' lifespans. Many people have heard anecdotes about that and think that it applies to all EVs. But most EVs, including the upcoming LEAF, have liquid cooling. That makes this less of an issue. Also, batteries suffer more in hot weather. So, if you are looking at used EVs, you might want to avoid those from Arizona or Florida and so on.
Interesting information and given me some rabbit holes to go down and do some research on. Thanks!
Would be nice if more EVs would come in sporty models. Something that looked like a new Corvette or Challenger but with a fast EV package would be nice, if not too outrageously priced, and would certainly make them more common.
There actually is a Challenger EV. Otherwise your best bet is a Porsche Taycan. Get a used one for about half price compared to new.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Do you charge at home? I’d do, do you have more than one? Just trying to figure out how you all plan around charger use.
Me again. We have one EV and are considering buying one for our teen, hence my question. I don’t think we’ll have trouble planning with two, but I could see us possibly having 3 at one point.
One technique that we've used is that if someone is going out for a few hours, they take the car in the garage and whoever needs a charge takes the garage spot and charges while they are gone. Also, look for opportunistic possibilities. For instance, the DC Wegmans has free charging. So we plug in whenever we are shopping there. 45-60 minutes might get 10% (those are slow chargers) which can last for a couple of days.
Anonymous wrote:Do you charge at home? I’d do, do you have more than one? Just trying to figure out how you all plan around charger use.
We have a one car garage with a charger in it (technically an EVSE as the charger is built in to the cars). So there is a certain about of juggling cars around to use the charger. But, we have worked out ways to make charging easier. For instance, my son who commutes to UMD can charge in the parking garages there. There is a fee, but it is very cheap. Moreover, while he is assigned a parking garage, he can use the chargers in any garage. Therefore, he normally parks in a more convenient location and charges while he is at school. He also goes to a gym in Montgomery County where the charging is cheaper than the parking fee and you don't have to pay for parking while charging. So, he charges there as well and pays less than he would for simply parking.
My other son was away at college most of the time and used a charger on campus that was also very cheap. When he goes back to college, he will be living in a building with free charging in its parking garage. Now that he is home for the summer, we are juggling his car as well.
The car juggling turns out not to be as bad as it sounds. For one thing, for just around town driving we don't have to charge that much.
Anonymous wrote:jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:Jeff, which model of the i4 did you decide on and are you happy with the car?
But, as I said initially, we have done five 1500 mile trips in it. It is very comfortable on trips and we just have to accept that we will be taking a break every two hours or so. We haven't had a single problem with it and I highly recommend the car.
DP, but why the breaks so often? Uncomfortable? Or is that due to needing charging or something?
Due to the need to charge. The car is very comfortable. The nature of EV batteries is that they charge the fastest at their lowest state of charge. Charging from 80% to 100% is very slow and may take as long as 10%-80%. Therefore, you normally only charge to 80% unless you have no choice. Also, because there is still the possibility of arriving at a charging station and finding a line or broken chargers, you don't want to run the battery down too low because you may need to travel to another station. The result is that we frequently are only using our battery from 20% - 80%, or only 60% of the battery. In some cases we've had confidence in the charger to which we are headed and run longer, getting down as low as 4% at times.
The Equinox EV that my son drives can go about 100 miles further on a charge. By that time, the car's range is outlasting our bladders.
Anonymous wrote:What are the average lifespans of the EV batteries and vehicles?
Without a cooling system or oil system?, seems like there wouldn't be as much to break on an EV, but not really familiar with them.
Assuming they get to where they don't hold a charge after a while, so are there aftermarket options that are affordable for replacing entire battery systems, similar to rebuilding or buying an ICE engine?
The lifespan of the batteries is a controversial topic. The newer technologies used in today's batteries haven't been around long enough for real life tests. So everything is basically theoretical. All EV batteries are warrantied for 8 years. So you don't have to worry during that period. There have been a number of recent studies that show that today's batteries might out live the car. A couple of things we do know is that there is a drop off in battery capacity right at the beginning of usage. That is only a few percent. After that, if the battery is well cared for, drop off is very gradual. Since the majority of today's EV owners are sort early adopters who take an interest in their cars, it is not uncommon for EV owners to be obsessed with battery care. I bought two used EVs and in both cases the batteries were in great shape. In the case of the i3, the battery actually showed more capacity than it was rated for new. Obviously, BMW had been conservative in their specifications and, when new, the battery probably had more than the stated capacity.
One problem currently with batteries is that the best and the cheapest come from China. Therefore, in the US we either can't get them at all or they are expensive. The result is that replacement options are not particularly good. In Europe, people are replacing their batteries fairly often. All of this may change in the future as U.S. battery manufacturing catches up. Also, as EVs become more widespread, there will likely be more batteries available from cars that were totaled and can be picked up cheaply.
Two other things about batteries. The early LEAFs only had air cooling for their batteries and this hurt the batteries' lifespans. Many people have heard anecdotes about that and think that it applies to all EVs. But most EVs, including the upcoming LEAF, have liquid cooling. That makes this less of an issue. Also, batteries suffer more in hot weather. So, if you are looking at used EVs, you might want to avoid those from Arizona or Florida and so on.
Anonymous wrote:What does this mean? We have gotten rid of all ICE vehicles.
ICE = Internal Combustion Engine. It means we no longer have any cars that use gas.
Anonymous wrote:Jeff, which model of the i4 did you decide on and are you happy with the car?
We bought the eDrive35 and are generally happy with it though there is room for improvement. At the time we were shopping for the i4, our cars were 16 and 18 years old. As such, we were considering replacing both of them. We thought that we would get a BEV for around town and maybe a hybrid for trips. The i4 was going to be our around town car so the eDrive35 made sense. Then we started taking trips with it and found out that long trips were completely doable. It became our "trip" car and I bought the i3 which is a true around town car. Had we planned for the i4 to be our trip car initially, we probably would have looked more at the eDrive40. The range on the eDrive35 is just a little shorter than is optimal. Charging is also slow. But, as I said initially, we have done five 1500 mile trips in it. It is very comfortable on trips and we just have to accept that we will be taking a break every two hours or so. We haven't had a single problem with it and I highly recommend the car.
Anonymous wrote:I have seen some great deals on the polestars but I don’t really need a new (to me) car right now.
We have satisfied our car needs for the foreseeable future but I still occasionally look at the used car listings just for fun. There are amazing deals on a number of brands. As I said above, I think that Polestars are probably the best bang for the buck, but I also saw a great deal yesterday on an Audi E-Tron. Electric Mini Coopers are practically being given away. If all you need is an around-the-town car, they are a great option.
The BMW i4 includes all services at no charge for 4 years. After that, many of the services continue to be provided at no charge. Frankly, since this won't be an issue for 3 more years, I haven't looked at it closely. The BMW i3 has no fees for most services. However, there was one collection of services (mostly involving remote monitoring of charging and the state of charge) that does have a $120 annual fee. We could easily do without those services, but they are convenient so I paid for the subscription this year.
The Equinox EV is a lease which will expire before any subscription fees are required. There is an annual fee after a few years for some services but off the top of my head I don't know the details.
The Polestar 2 has no fees of which I am aware.
The Equinox EV is a lease which will expire before any subscription fees are required. There is an annual fee after a few years for some services but off the top of my head I don't know the details.
The Polestar 2 has no fees of which I am aware.