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Anonymous wrote:What I meant to ask with the mpg question is how much do you end up paying for a full charge and how many miles can you go on
a full charge on average. For comparison, a gas car can go about 300 miles on a “full charge” at a cost of about $30. So, $0.1 per
mile.
The savings for EV charging is with home charging where you might pay $0.18 per kWh. We have solar so that cost is reduced to nearly nothing. But let's say that you fully charged our BMW i4 paying $0.18 per kWh. The battery is roughly 67 kWh, so that costs $12.06. The range would be about 240 miles, mean $0.05 per mile.
This changes radically if you rely on public fast charging which can cost $0.40 - $0.60 or even more per kWh. Our i4 came with two years of free charging on the Electrify America network so when we stick to that network, we pay nothing. But if we use other stations, we are paying about the same as gas.
Anonymous wrote:Is your auto insurance higher with the EV?
Yes, but there are several factors involved. Insurance for all cars has increased lately. The new EVs are more expensive then our previous cars and even the used EVs were more expensive than the 16 and 18 year old cars that they replaced. More expensive cars cost more to insure with all else being equal. Also, having two young adult males added to the mix didn't do us any favors for insurance costs. Anecdotally I hear that EVs cost more to ensure than gas cars. That seems especially true in the case of Teslas. But, I can't say for certain about other EVs. Our personal situation has too many other variable to determine how much of the increase was solely due to the cars being EVs.
There are quite a few posters in that thread, though some are posting repeatedly. I see a handful that have posted around 10 times or so. But there are still a large number of different posters.
Anonymous wrote:How expensive is to install a home charger? Do you need to hire an electrician? What mpg do you effectively get if you charge at home?
The cost of a home charger install can range from $1,000 to $5,000 or more. The charger itself is about $500 for a decent one, give or take a few bucks. The install is very dependent on how far electrical cable must be run and how complex it is to run the cable. There are two ways to go. The electrical circuit itself is 240v. You can run that to an electrical outlet such as a NEMA 14-50 and simply plug your charger in to that. I think it is better to hardwire the EVSE (what a charger is technically called). Hardwiring allows you to run it at a higher rate of amps which means faster charging. Technically, you can install it yourself but you need a permit and likely an inspection afterwards. You really need to have some idea what you are doing, however, because these draw a lot of current which creates heat and you can easily have a fire if things are not installed correctly.
There might be incentives for which you are eligible. The federal government has a 30% rebate for up to $1,500 for many census tracts (unfortunately not mine though). DC has a $1,000 rebate. Some electrical providers, though not PEPCO, offer free or discounted EVSEs. So check for possible incentives.
The MGP is the same regardless of how you charge and is dependent on the car and other factors (such as how fast you drive, the terrain, etc.). Home charging uses AC electricity and is fairly slow, taking several hours to reach 80% or higher of a charge. It works well if you can charge overnight. Fast charging uses DC and can get the same amount of charging in about a half hour. Driving range is the same in either case.
Anonymous wrote:I don’t think our Bolt feels heavy.
Bolts are an exception. Only 3600 pounds. Same as my i3 which is also light. But that's uncommon for EVs.
Anonymous wrote:jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:Any thoughts on how the BMW EVs drives compared to BMW ICE? Perhaps they are not comparable beasts?? I am trying to adjust to the switch in many ICE vehicles from to V6 twin turbo.
My previous car was a BMW 135i which had a straight six twin turbo. The main difference with the i4 is that it is larger and its suspension is not as firm. As far as power goes, it is very similar. My understanding is that the i4 was tuned to feel like an ICE car because BMW wanted to make switching seamless. With the i4, by default, one pedal driving is not much of a thing. Since that was my first EV, I didn't know anything about one pedal driving. But all our other EVs have it and I got used to it from them. Now I am a big fan of one pedal driving. That is probably the biggest difference between EVs and ICE that I have found.
Thanks for your thoughts. My brother drives an X Plaid and the power is intense. I find the power of a twin turbo too much when it kicks in, especially in lighter cars. But I compare a BMW (especially a V8) as like a suction cup on the road. Extremely good handling. I haven't loved the hesitation, then take off of a V6 twin turbo in a lighter car. But I love BMWs, so have been curious about their EVs. But I've also wondered if EVs in general would have that same lighter but more powerful feel, if that makes sense.
EVs are heavy so I don't think they will feel light to you. In our i4, you can feel the weight when cornering. But the weight is in the floor so it has a good center of gravity and handling is still good. Plenty of power.
Anonymous wrote:How do you check the health of the battery when buying a used ev? What else is important to check?
How you check the battery is car dependent. There is an app called eFlow that works with BMW, MINI, Audi, Ford, Porsche, and VW EVs that will provide lots of data about the battery. It requires an ODB2 reader. You can buy a wireless one for less than $30. The BMW i3 also has a secret service menu that, if you know the correct codes, you can get into. In the worst case, just charge the car up to 100% and see what it says the range is. That will not necessarily be accurate, but it is better than nothing.
Also, cars.com has partnered with Recurrent which is a company that provides reports about battery status. It doesn't work with all brands, but for several you can simply click and see the report.
If you know what make and model of car in which you are interested, look for a forum for that car. Then check for the common problems and check the car for those. Also get the Carfax report. It might show the common problems have already been fixed.
Anonymous wrote:Any thoughts on how the BMW EVs drives compared to BMW ICE? Perhaps they are not comparable beasts?? I am trying to adjust to the switch in many ICE vehicles from to V6 twin turbo.
My previous car was a BMW 135i which had a straight six twin turbo. The main difference with the i4 is that it is larger and its suspension is not as firm. As far as power goes, it is very similar. My understanding is that the i4 was tuned to feel like an ICE car because BMW wanted to make switching seamless. With the i4, by default, one pedal driving is not much of a thing. Since that was my first EV, I didn't know anything about one pedal driving. But all our other EVs have it and I got used to it from them. Now I am a big fan of one pedal driving. That is probably the biggest difference between EVs and ICE that I have found.
Anonymous wrote:jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:Jeff, which model of the i4 did you decide on and are you happy with the car?
But, as I said initially, we have done five 1500 mile trips in it. It is very comfortable on trips and we just have to accept that we will be taking a break every two hours or so. We haven't had a single problem with it and I highly recommend the car.
DP, but why the breaks so often? Uncomfortable? Or is that due to needing charging or something?
Due to the need to charge. The car is very comfortable. The nature of EV batteries is that they charge the fastest at their lowest state of charge. Charging from 80% to 100% is very slow and may take as long as 10%-80%. Therefore, you normally only charge to 80% unless you have no choice.
What's the average charge time for say, 25% to 75%? Is that the 2 hour mentioned, or would that take longer than 2 hours on average?
No, the two hours is roughly the time we drive between stops on long trips. Sometimes closer to 2 1/2 hours. Charging time is highly dependent on the car because some have much better charging. But, you can expect about 20 minutes for a 25% to 75% charge with most new cars. Some will be faster and some slower, but that is probably a good ballpark.
There are different strategies. My preference is to stay at least 30 minutes when we stop to charge and get as much of a charge during that time as we can. However, in most cars the charging curve is very high at a low state of charge and then starts to drop at some point, often near 50%. So some drivers like to run their batteries very low and then charge from say 5% to 50% and then get back on the road. They are only charging during the highest part of their charging curves and, therefore, spending less time charging. I will tend to do 20% - 80% charges. This is all on DC fast chargers, of course, which we only use during long trips. At home, everything is slower level 2 chargers which take hours.
Anonymous wrote:jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:What are the average lifespans of the EV batteries and vehicles?
Without a cooling system or oil system?, seems like there wouldn't be as much to break on an EV, but not really familiar with them.
Assuming they get to where they don't hold a charge after a while, so are there aftermarket options that are affordable for replacing entire battery systems, similar to rebuilding or buying an ICE engine?
The lifespan of the batteries is a controversial topic. The newer technologies used in today's batteries haven't been around long enough for real life tests. So everything is basically theoretical. All EV batteries are warrantied for 8 years. So you don't have to worry during that period. There have been a number of recent studies that show that today's batteries might out live the car. A couple of things we do know is that there is a drop off in battery capacity right at the beginning of usage. That is only a few percent. After that, if the battery is well cared for, drop off is very gradual. Since the majority of today's EV owners are sort early adopters who take an interest in their cars, it is not uncommon for EV owners to be obsessed with battery care. I bought two used EVs and in both cases the batteries were in great shape. In the case of the i3, the battery actually showed more capacity than it was rated for new. Obviously, BMW had been conservative in their specifications and, when new, the battery probably had more than the stated capacity.
One problem currently with batteries is that the best and the cheapest come from China. Therefore, in the US we either can't get them at all or they are expensive. The result is that replacement options are not particularly good. In Europe, people are replacing their batteries fairly often. All of this may change in the future as U.S. battery manufacturing catches up. Also, as EVs become more widespread, there will likely be more batteries available from cars that were totaled and can be picked up cheaply.
Two other things about batteries. The early LEAFs only had air cooling for their batteries and this hurt the batteries' lifespans. Many people have heard anecdotes about that and think that it applies to all EVs. But most EVs, including the upcoming LEAF, have liquid cooling. That makes this less of an issue. Also, batteries suffer more in hot weather. So, if you are looking at used EVs, you might want to avoid those from Arizona or Florida and so on.
Interesting information and given me some rabbit holes to go down and do some research on. Thanks!
Would be nice if more EVs would come in sporty models. Something that looked like a new Corvette or Challenger but with a fast EV package would be nice, if not too outrageously priced, and would certainly make them more common.
There actually is a Challenger EV. Otherwise your best bet is a Porsche Taycan. Get a used one for about half price compared to new.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Do you charge at home? I’d do, do you have more than one? Just trying to figure out how you all plan around charger use.
Me again. We have one EV and are considering buying one for our teen, hence my question. I don’t think we’ll have trouble planning with two, but I could see us possibly having 3 at one point.
One technique that we've used is that if someone is going out for a few hours, they take the car in the garage and whoever needs a charge takes the garage spot and charges while they are gone. Also, look for opportunistic possibilities. For instance, the DC Wegmans has free charging. So we plug in whenever we are shopping there. 45-60 minutes might get 10% (those are slow chargers) which can last for a couple of days.
Anonymous wrote:Do you charge at home? I’d do, do you have more than one? Just trying to figure out how you all plan around charger use.
We have a one car garage with a charger in it (technically an EVSE as the charger is built in to the cars). So there is a certain about of juggling cars around to use the charger. But, we have worked out ways to make charging easier. For instance, my son who commutes to UMD can charge in the parking garages there. There is a fee, but it is very cheap. Moreover, while he is assigned a parking garage, he can use the chargers in any garage. Therefore, he normally parks in a more convenient location and charges while he is at school. He also goes to a gym in Montgomery County where the charging is cheaper than the parking fee and you don't have to pay for parking while charging. So, he charges there as well and pays less than he would for simply parking.
My other son was away at college most of the time and used a charger on campus that was also very cheap. When he goes back to college, he will be living in a building with free charging in its parking garage. Now that he is home for the summer, we are juggling his car as well.
The car juggling turns out not to be as bad as it sounds. For one thing, for just around town driving we don't have to charge that much.