Washington and Lee University- what are the kids like??

[Anonymous]

I have a daughter who is down to earth, very smart- loves the outdoors and wants a SLAC. She's all A's and B's- lots of AP's. She is open to cultures and open politically. Not a huge partier but she has lots of friends- goes to parties, but isn't a massive drinker. She toured W and L and fell in love with the town and school. We had an extraordinary tour guide who was going on to Law School from Phillie and they clicked. Does this sound like an ok fit? What are the kids like there? I want to hear from real folks who have experience. TIA

[Anonymous]

Wealthy, hard-working, white, tight-knit.

[Anonymous]

Drunk.

[Anonymous]

It is quite hard to get in... Bs will probably knock her out unless you're in a tough private school. I'm sure you have checked the stats and Naviance, but wanted to mention.

I happen to spend alot of time in Lexington for unrelated purposes and I love the town for for what it is, a small college town pretty far out in the countryside. My kids were mildly interested but ended up going the UVA route.

I don't know anyone well who goes there, so can't help there.

[Anonymous]

There's definitely that southern WASP-y Garden and Gun culture, but also a lot of kids from NY/NJ/PA. Diversity is living on the Mainline vs. McLean, lol. Ultra preppy, wealthy students who are actually smart and study a lot.

There is a strong work hard, play hard culture aka partying is very important. The school has made it difficult to have alcohol on campus so students rent houses out in the country, leading to some terrible drunk driving tragedies.

https://roanoke.com/news/virginia/drunken-driver-in-crash-that-killed-w-l-classmate-to-serve-3-years/article_04e2fbc4-a08c-5b07-a8cc-1776a45d7521.html

I think what would give me pause about W&L is that the profs grade very hard. So GPAs are lower, putting students who want to go to grad school a disadvantage. The counterargument is "oh, they'll be impressed by the W&L degree" but...hmm.

[Anonymous]

White, rich, and racist

[Anonymous]

I had a fantastic experience there. It was wilder then (80’s). Much nerdier now. Lots of smart kids, and they’ve worked hard to make it more diverse (with more work to do). Small classes and great classroom experience. Tons of outdoors opportunities and a milder climate than the NE LACs. Friendly campus vibe and speaking (saying hello to everyone who walks past) tradition. Alums are devoted. My daughter toured several times and really loved it but wasn’t quite good enough in her sport to be a recruit. So many nice and passionate people in admissions and the athletic department. If it felt right to your daughter that’s more important than what some random internet people write. B’s are okay if it’s more A’s than B’s and/or she went to a tough-grading private. Free tuition for households under $100k income.

Again, I’m just an internet rando myself so take all that for what it’s worth. Good luck and go Generals!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a daughter who is down to earth, very smart- loves the outdoors and wants a SLAC. She's all A's and B's- lots of AP's. She is open to cultures and open politically. Not a huge partier but she has lots of friends- goes to parties, but isn't a massive drinker. She toured W and L and fell in love with the town and school. We had an extraordinary tour guide who was going on to Law School from Phillie and they clicked. Does this sound like an ok fit? What are the kids like there? I want to hear from real folks who have experience. TIA

Not sure what size school she is looking for, but we toured a ton of VA state schools. The one standout that shocked us was Roanoke College. I know most people here wouldn't even look, but their tour/orientation was incredible. Outstanding school. DC wanted a much larger school but I was incredibly impressed. I've known 3 that have gone there recently and had positive experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a daughter who is down to earth, very smart- loves the outdoors and wants a SLAC. She's all A's and B's- lots of AP's. She is open to cultures and open politically. Not a huge partier but she has lots of friends- goes to parties, but isn't a massive drinker. She toured W and L and fell in love with the town and school. We had an extraordinary tour guide who was going on to Law School from Phillie and they clicked. Does this sound like an ok fit? What are the kids like there? I want to hear from real folks who have experience. TIA

Not sure what size school she is looking for, but we toured a ton of VA state schools. The one standout that shocked us was Roanoke College. I know most people here wouldn't even look, but their tour/orientation was incredible. Outstanding school. DC wanted a much larger school but I was incredibly impressed. I've known 3 that have gone there recently and had positive experiences.

Roanoke isn’t a state school.

[Anonymous]

Very, very white. Almost outdatedly so.

[Anonymous]

The Dartmouth of the South

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's definitely that southern WASP-y Garden and Gun culture, but also a lot of kids from NY/NJ/PA. Diversity is living on the Mainline vs. McLean, lol. Ultra preppy, wealthy students who are actually smart and study a lot.

There is a strong work hard, play hard culture aka partying is very important. The school has made it difficult to have alcohol on campus so students rent houses out in the country, leading to some terrible drunk driving tragedies.

https://roanoke.com/news/virginia/drunken-driver-in-crash-that-killed-w-l-classmate-to-serve-3-years/article_04e2fbc4-a08c-5b07-a8cc-1776a45d7521.html

I think what would give me pause about W&L is that the profs grade very hard. So GPAs are lower, putting students who want to go to grad school a disadvantage. The counterargument is "oh, they'll be impressed by the W&L degree" but...hmm.

Very few schools really grade hard any more, and that included W&L. According to Gradeinflation.com, a website that collects average GPAs at schools, the average GPA at W&L was 3.44 in 2015. In comparison, William & Mary was 3.33 in 2014, UVA was 3.32 in 2013, Virginia Tech was 3.15 in 2015, JMU was 3.15 in 2013, and ODU was 2.75 in 2014.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's definitely that southern WASP-y Garden and Gun culture, but also a lot of kids from NY/NJ/PA. Diversity is living on the Mainline vs. McLean, lol. Ultra preppy, wealthy students who are actually smart and study a lot.

There is a strong work hard, play hard culture aka partying is very important. The school has made it difficult to have alcohol on campus so students rent houses out in the country, leading to some terrible drunk driving tragedies.

https://roanoke.com/news/virginia/drunken-driver-in-crash-that-killed-w-l-classmate-to-serve-3-years/article_04e2fbc4-a08c-5b07-a8cc-1776a45d7521.html

I think what would give me pause about W&L is that the profs grade very hard. So GPAs are lower, putting students who want to go to grad school a disadvantage. The counterargument is "oh, they'll be impressed by the W&L degree" but...hmm.

Very few schools really grade hard any more, and that included W&L. According to Gradeinflation.com, a website that collects average GPAs at schools, the average GPA at W&L was 3.44 in 2015. In comparison, William & Mary was 3.33 in 2014, UVA was 3.32 in 2013, Virginia Tech was 3.15 in 2015, JMU was 3.15 in 2013, and ODU was 2.75 in 2014.

But that doesn't tell you anything really. When you accept people who got mainly all A's in HS and are in the top 3-5% in SATs like W&L, W&M and UVA do, it should be fine to have benchmarked standards about the content/skills rather than a curve. Now that schools are so narrow in their bands of selectivity, the schools that admit top applicants really should have much closer to all A's--if there were some national standards in each field. But the reality is profs implicitly sort of reset the curve for the students they have. So a student at W&L or W&M or UVA who is given the B- is likely doing work that would get an A from JMU/GMU. I say this as a professor who has had to re-calibrate my grading as I have moved from teaching at universities with different levels of students. If you teach at a place like ODU, you're going to have some obvious cases of kids who don't come to class, can't do the work, etc. that make a wider range. But the A student there would probably be making C's at a tougher school. But if you teach a liberal arts college like W&L or W&M or a highly selective flagship like UVA or a rigorous program like engineering at VT-- the students are all in the top percent of the nation. But some will do work that edges out among the others and that becomes the A, while those whose work would earn an A elsewhere, get the B- to A- range. Of course there will always be some who just don't get a subject or skip class a lot and those are the C's-F's, but they are very rare at these top schools.

This is why, in my own graduate admissions process, I look carefully at the rigor of the school attended and argue against flat GPA cut-offs.

[Anonymous]

Interesting and helpful information. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's definitely that southern WASP-y Garden and Gun culture, but also a lot of kids from NY/NJ/PA. Diversity is living on the Mainline vs. McLean, lol. Ultra preppy, wealthy students who are actually smart and study a lot.

There is a strong work hard, play hard culture aka partying is very important. The school has made it difficult to have alcohol on campus so students rent houses out in the country, leading to some terrible drunk driving tragedies.

https://roanoke.com/news/virginia/drunken-driver-in-crash-that-killed-w-l-classmate-to-serve-3-years/article_04e2fbc4-a08c-5b07-a8cc-1776a45d7521.html

I think what would give me pause about W&L is that the profs grade very hard. So GPAs are lower, putting students who want to go to grad school a disadvantage. The counterargument is "oh, they'll be impressed by the W&L degree" but...hmm.

Very few schools really grade hard any more, and that included W&L. According to Gradeinflation.com, a website that collects average GPAs at schools, the average GPA at W&L was 3.44 in 2015. In comparison, William & Mary was 3.33 in 2014, UVA was 3.32 in 2013, Virginia Tech was 3.15 in 2015, JMU was 3.15 in 2013, and ODU was 2.75 in 2014.

But that doesn't tell you anything really. When you accept people who got mainly all A's in HS and are in the top 3-5% in SATs like W&L, W&M and UVA do, it should be fine to have benchmarked standards about the content/skills rather than a curve. Now that schools are so narrow in their bands of selectivity, the schools that admit top applicants really should have much closer to all A's--if there were some national standards in each field. But the reality is profs implicitly sort of reset the curve for the students they have. So a student at W&L or W&M or UVA who is given the B- is likely doing work that would get an A from JMU/GMU. I say this as a professor who has had to re-calibrate my grading as I have moved from teaching at universities with different levels of students. If you teach at a place like ODU, you're going to have some obvious cases of kids who don't come to class, can't do the work, etc. that make a wider range. But the A student there would probably be making C's at a tougher school. But if you teach a liberal arts college like W&L or W&M or a highly selective flagship like UVA or a rigorous program like engineering at VT-- the students are all in the top percent of the nation. But some will do work that edges out among the others and that becomes the A, while those whose work would earn an A elsewhere, get the B- to A- range. Of course there will always be some who just don't get a subject or skip class a lot and those are the C's-F's, but they are very rare at these top schools.

This is why, in my own graduate admissions process, I look carefully at the rigor of the school attended and argue against flat GPA cut-offs.

It tells you there has been significant grade inflation as pretty much all institutions have had increasing average GPAs for a 50 year period. It also calls into question the statement regarding W&L that "GPAs are lower, putting students who want to go to grad school a disadvantage". They are actually a bit higher than W&M and UVA and are in line with other schools of similar selectivity.