Question for parents, from a professor

[Anonymous]

Now that the semester is over I've been reflecting on something on which I think the parent perspective would be interesting. (I'm a parent myself, but of much younger children.) Do you think part of a professor's job is to prepare undergraduates for "the real world" in terms of being super strict with deadlines? I have found that my colleagues have very mixed opinions on this. Some of them think it is a big part of the job and give barely any or no leeway to students who turn work in late. They also tend not to allow makeups without documentation of a serious medical or other issue. Other colleagues think their job is to help students learn the subject matter and tend to be very laid back about deadlines. They will have a stated policy but in reality let students turn work in significantly late, make up tests, etc.

I myself am torn. When I first started teaching I felt like I had to be very strict with deadlines in order to remain fair to all students and to be taken seriously (I was in my late twenties). Now that I have more experience I tend to be more lenient and say that the learning matters much more than following an arbitrary schedule. But am I doing students a disservice by letting them turn things in a day or two late or allowing makeups even if their reason isn't super solid (or possibly even made up sometimes?). This past year was obviously very unusual due to Covid, and I was even more lenient especially with those who were directly affected by Covid. But what do you all think/want as parents in non-pandemic times? Do you think professors should stick to deadlines (barring dire circumstances) to prepare students for careers in which certain deliverables are due on a specific day/time with zero exceptions? Or do you prefer professors are understanding of the various stressors young people may face and focus solely on mastery of material no matter what the schedule?

I see this trend toward moving away from high stakes assessments, letting students take tests twice, and sort of ignoring deadlines. This is generally being espoused by the more teaching focused faculty who are involved in the scholarship of teaching and learning. The more research oriented professors seem to be more "old school" and say that it does students a disservice to get rid of huge exams/projects and to let them turn things in late.

What do you all think?

[Anonymous]

I think super strict minus an emergency are good.

[Anonymous]

As a parent of a kid with learning differences, I think it’s about learning more than strictness. But it is also about accountability and building up to that. So just like the workplace somewhere along the continuum probably makes sense. The workplace does not have super strict deadlines for the most part.

[Anonymous]

As a student, I really appreciate some leniency, especially during a pandemic. It's been a hard year and it's hard to be away from home for the first time. Mental health concerns are skyrocketing right now and if professors have some flexibility it allows us a moment to breathe and reset to turn in better work and learn more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a student, I really appreciate some leniency, especially during a pandemic. It's been a hard year and it's hard to be away from home for the first time. Mental health concerns are skyrocketing right now and if professors have some flexibility it allows us a moment to breathe and reset to turn in better work and learn more.

Get therapy, grow up and follow deadlines. Most people only pretend to have sacrificed but haven't.

[Anonymous]

I despise profs who are sticklers for student deadlines. It’s cruel and completely unnecessary.

You know who misses all the deadlines at work and who never gets fired? Tenured profs.

[Anonymous]

I think sliding scale point deductions (5% for one day late, 10% for two, 20% for 3, etc) are both fair and most like the real world. If I give my boss something a day late but it’s good, he only knocks off a little.

[Anonymous]

Ok, I'm a parent but I'm going to answer this as someone who manages people out in the "real world" and has spent a lot of my career training and mentoring recent graduates.

I think the best way to prepare students for the actual working world is to teach them simply to be accountable for themselves, their time, and their work. The truth is that in the working world, it's rare that you will receive an arbitrary hard deadline for a project that is assigned to you and you alone. Most work is about process, and young people need to learn time management and communication.

So I think the best way to do this is to be flexible on deadlines but to demand that students communicate clearly. As I tell people who work for me, if you reach out to me ahead of time to let me know you are running behind, that shows me that you value my time and understand that you are responsible for your work. Then we can talk about adjusting a deadline and I might even be able to offer some insight or support that will help you get there. If, on the other hand, you wait until the 11th hour and then ask for an extension without giving me any explanation or context, I'll be frustrated with your immaturity.

So I would recommend taking a similar approach. I would not be super strict with deadlines, which are almost always more flexible than you think (I would also build some natural buffers into your deadlines, because that's how I handle it at work). But I would talk to your students about what it means to be accountable and to respect others' time. Expect them to reach out to you with issues before they become huge problems, and to communicate with you about any issues that could impact a deadline. That's probably the best preparation you could give them. I think being super strict about deadlines could actually make kids less mature once they are in the workplace, because it tends to make them really anxious and afraid of failure. I want the people who work for me to know failure is often part of the process and the more important thing is how you handle it. That's more productive in the end.

[Anonymous]

Super strict. And consequences for not making the mark. Please.

[Anonymous]

Even the real world often has extensions for true emergencies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I'm a parent but I'm going to answer this as someone who manages people out in the "real world" and has spent a lot of my career training and mentoring recent graduates.

I think the best way to prepare students for the actual working world is to teach them simply to be accountable for themselves, their time, and their work. The truth is that in the working world, it's rare that you will receive an arbitrary hard deadline for a project that is assigned to you and you alone. Most work is about process, and young people need to learn time management and communication.

So I think the best way to do this is to be flexible on deadlines but to demand that students communicate clearly. As I tell people who work for me, if you reach out to me ahead of time to let me know you are running behind, that shows me that you value my time and understand that you are responsible for your work. Then we can talk about adjusting a deadline and I might even be able to offer some insight or support that will help you get there. If, on the other hand, you wait until the 11th hour and then ask for an extension without giving me any explanation or context, I'll be frustrated with your immaturity.

So I would recommend taking a similar approach. I would not be super strict with deadlines, which are almost always more flexible than you think (I would also build some natural buffers into your deadlines, because that's how I handle it at work). But I would talk to your students about what it means to be accountable and to respect others' time. Expect them to reach out to you with issues before they become huge problems, and to communicate with you about any issues that could impact a deadline. That's probably the best preparation you could give them. I think being super strict about deadlines could actually make kids less mature once they are in the workplace, because it tends to make them really anxious and afraid of failure. I want the people who work for me to know failure is often part of the process and the more important thing is how you handle it. That's more productive in the end.

All of this. Yes. The "real world" isn't one where junior employees work alone for months and then turn in a polished product. It's one where their work reflects on their team and managers and has to reflect the organization's goals and values. Communication is what makes that happen, not deadlines.

[Anonymous]

As a foreign parent of a high schooler with severe ADHD and low processing speed, whose generous extended time is sometimes insufficient, I am torn too.

On the one hand, in my home country, there is no extended time to speak of, accommodations for ADHD and other learning disabilities are non-existent, there are no government protections for children with disabilities in the educational system. I thought I was dreaming when, as a young TA in an American university, I was told that some students had double time, that some students could hand in assignments a little late, and that if parents complained, we had to add a few more points! I complied, but without understanding it at all.

And now my own child has double time in high school, and we've gone through 16 years of developmental pediatricians, psychologists, psychiatrists, medication, turmoil at home and at school, endless self-doubt... it seems to me that time is actually not that important compared to the accuracy and overall quality of the work. Studies have shown that giving more time to students helps them do their best work, without prejudice to their future employment. This is because usually training for jobs involves the development of self-awareness in general, and deadlines in particular, some of which aren't that critical. A student with slow processing speed will likely not enroll in med school, where a huge work burden is placed on students, and if they do enroll and survive, they won't end up as emergency room doctors or trauma surgeons, where rapid decisions save lives. You see what I mean? The weeding out is natural and automatic, and doesn't need to be enforced artificially in a classroom setting.

However, I always resent lack of academic rigor, and that is my biggest complaint regarding the education system of this country. In my home country, the slightest inaccuracy or lack of concept development in an essay (and everything is in essay form, none of your multiple choice questions!) docks you points. A 12 out of 20 in some advanced subjects is perfectly good, and if your teacher is a hard grader, it might be the best grade in the entire class! Not so here, where parents pressure schools anytime their kids don't have straight As. My own child is the champion of the vague idea and under-developed paragraphs, and it drives me crazy

So there you have it. Demand more rigor, and the deadlines won't be that important...

[Anonymous]

The "real world" does have leniency. People get sick in the real world. People get stuck in traffic, have a death in the family, etc. etc. Chronic problems lead to consequences, but life happens, and the real world gets it.

As a professor, your should judge yourself on how well your students learn the subject matter you are teaching. Their habits when they get in the real world are about them, not your education. And not everyone will be entering the same kind of job or position so you don't even know what "real world you are preparing them for.

Also, their time with you is real, and it is their world. What kind of world do you want to make for these people?

[Anonymous]

I was teaching at colleges a long time ago, and made my share of mistakes. One mistake was being too strict and gave too difficult homework. Now I realized the strictness is not necessary at all.

But I know many professors love being strict and give hard exam that the average score is barely passing, so that they can bump the scores up using a hypothetical normal curve. To me it is very manipulating.

[Anonymous]

Ideally, a facade of hard deadlines, but underlying flexibility for genuine difficult situations that arise for students who take the initiative to reach out to you in a responsible, professional, and timely manner.

Don’t be the professor that insisted my daughter attend her chem lab or get a zero the day after her positive flu test (she attached the results to the email). Be the professor that did not penalize my son for not having the required printed copy of his paper to turn in the day it was due because he emailed it the night before along with pictures of his malfunctioning printer, the locked library doors, and the hours sign at a closed fed ex print shop.