Question for parents, from a professor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The "real world" does have leniency. People get sick in the real world. People get stuck in traffic, have a death in the family, etc. etc. Chronic problems lead to consequences, but life happens, and the real world gets it.

As a professor, your should judge yourself on how well your students learn the subject matter you are teaching. Their habits when they get in the real world are about them, not your education. And not everyone will be entering the same kind of job or position so you don't even know what "real world you are preparing them for.

Also, their time with you is real, and it is their world. What kind of world do you want to make for these people?

It depends on the job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The "real world" does have leniency. People get sick in the real world. People get stuck in traffic, have a death in the family, etc. etc. Chronic problems lead to consequences, but life happens, and the real world gets it.

As a professor, your should judge yourself on how well your students learn the subject matter you are teaching. Their habits when they get in the real world are about them, not your education. And not everyone will be entering the same kind of job or position so you don't even know what "real world you are preparing them for.

Also, their time with you is real, and it is their world. What kind of world do you want to make for these people?

Hear, hear.

[Anonymous]

Learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
As a foreign parent of a high schooler with severe ADHD and low processing speed, whose generous extended time is sometimes insufficient, I am torn too.

On the one hand, in my home country, there is no extended time to speak of, accommodations for ADHD and other learning disabilities are non-existent, there are no government protections for children with disabilities in the educational system. I thought I was dreaming when, as a young TA in an American university, I was told that some students had double time, that some students could hand in assignments a little late, and that if parents complained, we had to add a few more points! I complied, but without understanding it at all.

And now my own child has double time in high school, and we've gone through 16 years of developmental pediatricians, psychologists, psychiatrists, medication, turmoil at home and at school, endless self-doubt... it seems to me that time is actually not that important compared to the accuracy and overall quality of the work. Studies have shown that giving more time to students helps them do their best work, without prejudice to their future employment. This is because usually training for jobs involves the development of self-awareness in general, and deadlines in particular, some of which aren't that critical. A student with slow processing speed will likely not enroll in med school, where a huge work burden is placed on students, and if they do enroll and survive, they won't end up as emergency room doctors or trauma surgeons, where rapid decisions save lives. You see what I mean? The weeding out is natural and automatic, and doesn't need to be enforced artificially in a classroom setting.

However, I always resent lack of academic rigor, and that is my biggest complaint regarding the education system of this country. In my home country, the slightest inaccuracy or lack of concept development in an essay (and everything is in essay form, none of your multiple choice questions!) docks you points. A 12 out of 20 in some advanced subjects is perfectly good, and if your teacher is a hard grader, it might be the best grade in the entire class! Not so here, where parents pressure schools anytime their kids don't have straight As. My own child is the champion of the vague idea and under-developed paragraphs, and it drives me crazy

So there you have it. Demand more rigor, and the deadlines won't be that important...

Where are you from? Just curious. I like the way you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I despise profs who are sticklers for student deadlines. It’s cruel and completely unnecessary.

You know who misses all the deadlines at work and who never gets fired? Tenured profs.

AMEN!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I'm a parent but I'm going to answer this as someone who manages people out in the "real world" and has spent a lot of my career training and mentoring recent graduates.

I think the best way to prepare students for the actual working world is to teach them simply to be accountable for themselves, their time, and their work. The truth is that in the working world, it's rare that you will receive an arbitrary hard deadline for a project that is assigned to you and you alone. Most work is about process, and young people need to learn time management and communication.

So I think the best way to do this is to be flexible on deadlines but to demand that students communicate clearly. As I tell people who work for me, if you reach out to me ahead of time to let me know you are running behind, that shows me that you value my time and understand that you are responsible for your work. Then we can talk about adjusting a deadline and I might even be able to offer some insight or support that will help you get there. If, on the other hand, you wait until the 11th hour and then ask for an extension without giving me any explanation or context, I'll be frustrated with your immaturity.

So I would recommend taking a similar approach. I would not be super strict with deadlines, which are almost always more flexible than you think (I would also build some natural buffers into your deadlines, because that's how I handle it at work). But I would talk to your students about what it means to be accountable and to respect others' time. Expect them to reach out to you with issues before they become huge problems, and to communicate with you about any issues that could impact a deadline. That's probably the best preparation you could give them. I think being super strict about deadlines could actually make kids less mature once they are in the workplace, because it tends to make them really anxious and afraid of failure. I want the people who work for me to know failure is often part of the process and the more important thing is how you handle it. That's more productive in the end.

Thanks for this thoughtful answer. I think this makes a lot of sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think sliding scale point deductions (5% for one day late, 10% for two, 20% for 3, etc) are both fair and most like the real world. If I give my boss something a day late but it’s good, he only knocks off a little.

I think this is a good approach. It encourages punctuality but adds some give to students’ schedule.

But I think it’s important for professors to have fairly strict deadlines, to keep students from becoming prisoners of perfectionism and incompletes.

[Anonymous]

Clear deadlines are fine, but definitely allow extensions for illness/emergency. I see being super-strict as just a power move--it has no educational benefit.

Having everything stated clearly in the syllabus: assignments, deadlines, etc. at the beginning of the semester so students know exactly what is expected when. Set your policy then so that students know what to expect.

Also, make sure that YOU are keeping up with deadlines. I know my own kid (remote schooling this year) had a lot of problems with profs not posting required materials (readings, recorded lectures, etc) in a timely manner. She would have a plan for when to work on each class assignment, but if the info she needed to complete that work was not posted when it should have been, it made it difficult for her to get assignments done on time because she also needed to keep up with work for other classes. If you are not keeping to deadlines, don't expect your students to do so either.

[Anonymous]

As a parent of a college student and someone who has been in the workforce for over 36 years... there is no such thing as a strict deadline in the real world. Unless you are carrying the new kidney to a patient, most deadlines are important but not the be all end all. Sure you may feel bad or a boss my be disappointed for a bit but after a day or two - other more important things come up.

[Anonymous]

Agree with all of this. I am both a company owner that manages people and also a parent of a college student.

This year I've had to be more flexible as a manger given covid - and I do think some of my kids' professors were not as understanding or flexible as covid would mandate.

It was a crazy year and it would have been nice of some professors could have been more understanding of tech issues or whatever.

That said, in general I agree with the idea of hoping that kids will learn that deadlines are real and they need to follow them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Now that the semester is over I've been reflecting on something on which I think the parent perspective would be interesting. (I'm a parent myself, but of much younger children.) Do you think part of a professor's job is to prepare undergraduates for "the real world" in terms of being super strict with deadlines? I have found that my colleagues have very mixed opinions on this. Some of them think it is a big part of the job and give barely any or no leeway to students who turn work in late. They also tend not to allow makeups without documentation of a serious medical or other issue. Other colleagues think their job is to help students learn the subject matter and tend to be very laid back about deadlines. They will have a stated policy but in reality let students turn work in significantly late, make up tests, etc.

I myself am torn. When I first started teaching I felt like I had to be very strict with deadlines in order to remain fair to all students and to be taken seriously (I was in my late twenties). Now that I have more experience I tend to be more lenient and say that the learning matters much more than following an arbitrary schedule. But am I doing students a disservice by letting them turn things in a day or two late or allowing makeups even if their reason isn't super solid (or possibly even made up sometimes?). This past year was obviously very unusual due to Covid, and I was even more lenient especially with those who were directly affected by Covid. But what do you all think/want as parents in non-pandemic times? Do you think professors should stick to deadlines (barring dire circumstances) to prepare students for careers in which certain deliverables are due on a specific day/time with zero exceptions? Or do you prefer professors are understanding of the various stressors young people may face and focus solely on mastery of material no matter what the schedule?

I see this trend toward moving away from high stakes assessments, letting students take tests twice, and sort of ignoring deadlines. This is generally being espoused by the more teaching focused faculty who are involved in the scholarship of teaching and learning. The more research oriented professors seem to be more "old school" and say that it does students a disservice to get rid of huge exams/projects and to let them turn things in late.

What do you all think?

I don't see how strict deadlines in university have anything to do with the real world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I despise profs who are sticklers for student deadlines. It’s cruel and completely unnecessary.

You know who misses all the deadlines at work and who never gets fired? Tenured profs.

BS. What deadlines do we miss? We have grant deadlines, publication deadlines, reporting deadlines, grade submission deadlines, and on and on. Trust me, we're not imposing anything on students that we don't have to deal with ourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I despise profs who are sticklers for student deadlines. It’s cruel and completely unnecessary.

You know who misses all the deadlines at work and who never gets fired? Tenured profs.

Ah so you find it unnecessary to do your work on time and hit deadlines in your job? What do you do for a living?

I see young employees come in with that same “I’ll just send an email with some excuse” attitude and not realize they are blowing up our client relationships when they fail to deliver quality work on the agreed date. OP, if a student has an emergency, support them. But they are grown ups now and shouldn’t be coddled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a college student and someone who has been in the workforce for over 36 years... there is no such thing as a strict deadline in the real world. Unless you are carrying the new kidney to a patient, most deadlines are important but not the be all end all. Sure you may feel bad or a boss my be disappointed for a bit but after a day or two - other more important things come up.

Yeah...no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I despise profs who are sticklers for student deadlines. It’s cruel and completely unnecessary.

You know who misses all the deadlines at work and who never gets fired? Tenured profs.

BS. What deadlines do we miss? We have grant deadlines, publication deadlines, reporting deadlines, grade submission deadlines, and on and on. Trust me, we're not imposing anything on students that we don't have to deal with ourselves.

DP, but I used to work in publishing and many of my authors were academics and they were the WORST about meeting deadlines. They needed tons of reminders, would often just space on getting me things, and would often send things that needed a lot of editorial work at the very last minute. Academia does not tend to move as fast as other industries, and I found my academic authors struggled more than others with adhering to an editorial schedule.