Outside-the-box guidance for evaluating DC elementary schools?

[Anonymous]

Hi all, we're moving to DC and will have a child start 1st grade (and a second soon eligible for PK) next Fall. One challenge of a coast=to-coast move has been trying to assess the quality of a DC school beyond the ratings and statistics. Those metrics tell one side of the story but don't give us an idea of trends at the school or parent engagement, school leadership, etc. For instance, Bancroft in Mt. Pleasant has about 50% competency scores and is given the same Great Schools rating of 10 as Janney, which has almost 90% student competency on state tests. Bancroft is racially and economically very different than Janney (in a good way, in our opinion). And then there are a bunch of schools in between. How do we find other resources and info. about various public schools. Neighborhoods in DC we're open to moving to are Petworth, Shepherd Park, Takoma, Brookland and, if we can afford it, the northwest neighborhoods west of Rock Creek Park where all the highly rated schools are (Lafayette, Murch, Janney, etc.) Just reaching out here to see if there's a different approach you can recommend or other resources that are available that could help us. Reading some of the prior posts and threads here has been helpful. Thanks so much!

[Anonymous]

Great schools is massively reliant on test scores, which are now several years out of date. Try to figure out first of all if you are seeking a Spanish language program or not. Then determine whether you care about your school feeding to an adequately performing middle school. And whether it is a deal breaker for you if your younger child does not get a preschool spot at all, nothing until Kindergarten.

If your move is for this fall, create your lottery accounts for each child and all schools you are even possibly considering.

[Anonymous]

It seems like Brookland is geographically the "which of these things is not like the other". Why is it on your list? The neighborhood schools there are not great. There are a lot of area charters but having missed the Iottery, you won't get in. I would stop looking in Brookland, your search is too wide and you need to narrow it down.

[Anonymous]

Some research into Wells and MacFarland middle schools should help you decide. Some parents are into the new school, more diversity, no good high school thing. Others are not. We are here to help but can't decide for you.

Middle school starts in 6th here, it's not that far off.

[Anonymous]

The solutions I’d recommend normally include visiting the school and checking to see if kids are on task. Hard to do anything comparable now.

[Anonymous]

Big picture questions:

How long will you be in the area? (Do you care about middle and high school?)
What’s your budget? (Buying? Renting?)
What’s your risk-tolerance? (Can you take your chances on the lottery or do you want to be in-bounds?)
Have you considered close-in Md? (Takoma Park)

[Anonymous]

Our kids are in a high income boundary nw school. The school is lacking in diversity, and the social atmosphere is a bit cold, but it is otherwise a great school. The high test scores simply reflect the fact that the boundary is high-income. I am guessing that people rate Bancroft highly because it has a nice community and good teachers. My children were at a lower performing school before, but we liked that different levels were all being educated in the same classroom with all of their needs being met, and the community was really nice . It was a place where all children could succeed and systems were in place like interventionists to support children who were behind. I think Bancroft also is in the Wilson feeder pattern, which would make it a popular choice. Many families leave DCPS when it comes time for middle school. Good luck with your decisions!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our kids are in a high income boundary nw school. The school is lacking in diversity, and the social atmosphere is a bit cold, but it is otherwise a great school. The high test scores simply reflect the fact that the boundary is high-income. I am guessing that people rate Bancroft highly because it has a nice community and good teachers. My children were at a lower performing school before, but we liked that different levels were all being educated in the same classroom with all of their needs being met, and the community was really nice . It was a place where all children could succeed and systems were in place like interventionists to support children who were behind. I think Bancroft also is in the Wilson feeder pattern, which would make it a popular choice. Many families leave DCPS when it comes time for middle school. Good luck with your decisions!

So why did you change schools?

[Anonymous]

I’ve worked in both a highly rated, well liked on DCUM school and a poorly rated, Title I, rarely mentioned on DCUM school, both DCPS elementaries. I’ve also worked in two other elementary schools in two different states, one a typical upper middle class school and the other a Title I not as bad as DCPS but still low performing. For my own child what would make the difference is the level of joy in the school. The out of state Title I had just as many behavior problems as the Title I one DCPS, but overall the building had a sense of joy for students. We did fun school wide activities, we had celebrations, kids did fun projects as a school or grade. I still have some awesome memories of times with kids. The DCPS Title I the very first thing I noticed was the kids seemed depressed and admin wasn’t interested in making school a joyous place to be. The staff didn’t care either when I tried to organize some celebrations and events.

You can worry about test scores all day, but for a neurotypical child from an ordinary family will do just fine anywhere at the elementary level. But whether your kid loves school will be determined by the joy in the school. And from my years teaching, I see that kids who love school are more engaged and eager to learn.

Now, how do you figure out which schools have that sense of joy? That will be harder to figure out and I can’t really answer that. I would poke around on Facebook pages, PTA/PTO pages, Google them and see what comes up. Look at the kids in the pictures and what they are doing. What kind of events does the school have? Do they invite families into the building? Things like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve worked in both a highly rated, well liked on DCUM school and a poorly rated, Title I, rarely mentioned on DCUM school, both DCPS elementaries. I’ve also worked in two other elementary schools in two different states, one a typical upper middle class school and the other a Title I not as bad as DCPS but still low performing. For my own child what would make the difference is the level of joy in the school. The out of state Title I had just as many behavior problems as the Title I one DCPS, but overall the building had a sense of joy for students. We did fun school wide activities, we had celebrations, kids did fun projects as a school or grade. I still have some awesome memories of times with kids. The DCPS Title I the very first thing I noticed was the kids seemed depressed and admin wasn’t interested in making school a joyous place to be. The staff didn’t care either when I tried to organize some celebrations and events.

You can worry about test scores all day, but for a neurotypical child from an ordinary family will do just fine anywhere at the elementary level. But whether your kid loves school will be determined by the joy in the school. And from my years teaching, I see that kids who love school are more engaged and eager to learn.

Now, how do you figure out which schools have that sense of joy? That will be harder to figure out and I can’t really answer that. I would poke around on Facebook pages, PTA/PTO pages, Google them and see what comes up. Look at the kids in the pictures and what they are doing. What kind of events does the school have? Do they invite families into the building? Things like that.

As a self contained teacher teacher who works with children who are not neurotypical, I disagree that children who are can do well anywhere. Neurotypical children can still have behavioral issues, depression, anxiety, etc.

I have worked in a school on cap hill, NW, and my current school is in NE. My NE school is my favorite so far and title 1. I think the majority of our students love school and their teachers. I agree that super important. The tone of depression is definitely due to a school’s culture and how staff interacts with students and each other.

OP I’d also look for how involved the teachers are, less involved teachers is a sign that the school is horrible. Can you find pictures, clubs they run, on the school page what does it say about them?

Look on this forum (with a grain of salt) about what other parents have said about any particular school.

[Anonymous]

These are things I noticed at school we ended up leaving.

The school always smelled. You walked in the front door and there was always a smell. I couldn’t tell if it was from the cafeteria or from the bathroom but there was always a bad smell in the school.
Picking up our kid at the after care we got to see a lot of the older grades playing on the playground. What I saw was not the environment I wanted my kind in. There was use of language that shocked me coming from seven and eight-year-olds. There was a lot of fighting. They were sexual mimicry happening with really young kids on the playground.
Other parents are picking up their kids were clearly intoxicated on illegal substances.

So, these are things I was not comfortable with. But I will say the pk was the best preschool program my child ever attended. It’s a mixed bag in dcps.

[Anonymous]

Kid not kind

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like Brookland is geographically the "which of these things is not like the other". Why is it on your list? The neighborhood schools there are not great. There are a lot of area charters but having missed the Iottery, you won't get in. I would stop looking in Brookland, your search is too wide and you need to narrow it down.

+1. Unless you want to gamble on the lottery, I’d avoid Brookland. Petworth and Takoma have a few really great schools (Powell, Barnard, West, Whittier) but they lack the “desirable” feeder patterns to MS/HS you get from schools in Ward 3, Shepherd Park, and Mt. Pleasant. That being said, my kids attend one of those schools I mentioned, and we are really happy there. Good community feel and happy, experienced teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve worked in both a highly rated, well liked on DCUM school and a poorly rated, Title I, rarely mentioned on DCUM school, both DCPS elementaries. I’ve also worked in two other elementary schools in two different states, one a typical upper middle class school and the other a Title I not as bad as DCPS but still low performing. For my own child what would make the difference is the level of joy in the school. The out of state Title I had just as many behavior problems as the Title I one DCPS, but overall the building had a sense of joy for students. We did fun school wide activities, we had celebrations, kids did fun projects as a school or grade. I still have some awesome memories of times with kids. The DCPS Title I the very first thing I noticed was the kids seemed depressed and admin wasn’t interested in making school a joyous place to be. The staff didn’t care either when I tried to organize some celebrations and events.

You can worry about test scores all day, but for a neurotypical child from an ordinary family will do just fine anywhere at the elementary level. But whether your kid loves school will be determined by the joy in the school. And from my years teaching, I see that kids who love school are more engaged and eager to learn.

Now, how do you figure out which schools have that sense of joy? That will be harder to figure out and I can’t really answer that. I would poke around on Facebook pages, PTA/PTO pages, Google them and see what comes up. Look at the kids in the pictures and what they are doing. What kind of events does the school have? Do they invite families into the building? Things like that.

As a self contained teacher teacher who works with children who are not neurotypical, I disagree that children who are can do well anywhere. Neurotypical children can still have behavioral issues, depression, anxiety, etc.

I have worked in a school on cap hill, NW, and my current school is in NE. My NE school is my favorite so far and title 1. I think the majority of our students love school and their teachers. I agree that super important. The tone of depression is definitely due to a school’s culture and how staff interacts with students and each other.

OP I’d also look for how involved the teachers are, less involved teachers is a sign that the school is horrible. Can you find pictures, clubs they run, on the school page what does it say about them?

Look on this forum (with a grain of salt) about what other parents have said about any particular school.

My child used to attend a NE school with a lot of self-contained (perhaps the same one) and the joy in that school was just off the charts. Test scores not so much, but they are improving. I think it was the principal's support, the kids themselves, having plenty of physical space for celebrations and fun stuff like visiting performers. Playworks was there for a while, and a cooking program and some of the kids in self-contained had a visiting theater troupe which was hilarious. We switched for academic reasons to a school that has a nice calm and happy vibe, but I still miss the way the old school was bursting with joy and liveliness. So if that's where you work, PP, you are doing great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like Brookland is geographically the "which of these things is not like the other". Why is it on your list? The neighborhood schools there are not great. There are a lot of area charters but having missed the Iottery, you won't get in. I would stop looking in Brookland, your search is too wide and you need to narrow it down.

+1. Unless you want to gamble on the lottery, I’d avoid Brookland. Petworth and Takoma have a few really great schools (Powell, Barnard, West, Whittier) but they lack the “desirable” feeder patterns to MS/HS you get from schools in Ward 3, Shepherd Park, and Mt. Pleasant. That being said, my kids attend one of those schools I mentioned, and we are really happy there. Good community feel and happy, experienced teachers.

I am the poster of list of the reasons we left a school (playground behavior etc.) It was one of the petworth schools listed above. People are always excited about the school and think it’s on a positive trajectory. It’s not a horrible place but there are still a lot of problems and that comes from the fact that the neighborhood still has a lot of issues, particularly drug related crime often extremely close to the school. I’m not stereotyping - I lived in the neighborhood a very long time and I am close friends with even longer-term residents. There a lot of people with really great intentions and positive thinking about some of the petworth DCPS schools. Those affirmations don’t always play out in reality though. I urge you to go check out the schools in person to the extent you are permitted. Linger, without looking too creepy, when kids are outside playing. Pay attention to what you see happening. I will also note that every communication received from the school was full of basic spelling errors. It did not instill confidence.

I’m not saying this to sound mean or negative but it became a really big source of stress in our lives. I’m just sharing my experience in hopes of helping other people navigate better than we did. My friends who ended up at charters we’re all happy. My friends who ended up at some of the local petworth DCPS continue trying to lottery into the charters.