terrorist attack in Paris

[Muslima]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c7_-QE8Lx8 Here's the link

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:So because Muslima knows somebody who voluntarily wears a niqab, and can post 2 pro-niqab videos, this proves that nobody was ever forced to wear a niqab? Pretty sure we could Google and find women who were forced to cover.

Do you understand the difference between "All" and "Some"?

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So because Muslima knows somebody who voluntarily wears a niqab, and can post 2 pro-niqab videos, this proves that nobody was ever forced to wear a niqab? Pretty sure we could Google and find women who were forced to cover.

Do you understand the difference between "All" and "Some"?

You appare toy don't, in your post of 19:38. That's the problem here.

[Anonymous]

You apparently don't, in your post of 19:38. That's the problem.

Another problem is your childish insults. Stop it, before you stoop to calling people gapped-tooth grannies with STDs again and completely undermine whatever credibility you have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You apparently don't, in your post of 19:38. That's the problem.

Another problem is your childish insults. Stop it, before you stoop to calling people gapped-tooth grannies with STDs again and completely undermine whatever credibility you have.

That wasn't her, and the difference in writing styles is pretty marked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So because Muslima knows somebody who voluntarily wears a niqab, and can post 2 pro-niqab videos, this proves that nobody was ever forced to wear a niqab? Pretty sure we could Google and find women who were forced to cover.

You can also find testimony from women who were forced to dress more conservatively, or less conservatively, by their families and peer groups. That doesn't mean anything. If a woman is wearing a niqab in this country, you can assume in 99 cases out of 100 that she's doing it voluntarily since there is no peer pressure and no social costs here to not wearing it. In fact, there are greater social costs levied on women who do decide to wear them.

There is a niqabi woman in my neighborhood. I see her taking her two daughters to the library all the time. She drives. We've had little friendly chats a few times. From what I can see, there is absolutely nothing forcing her to cover. That is her choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:The oppressed Niqabi

Sorry, I couldn't view the video.

From the Independent article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/lets-face-it--the-niqab-is-ridiculous-and-the-ideology-behind-it-weird-8831691.html

The niqab is a ridiculous garment, adopted by a small (but growing) number of women and rejected by many mainstream Muslims. When I see someone wearing it, I'm torn between laughing at the absurdity and irritation with the ideology it represents. In secular countries, the notion that women have to cover their faces whenever they leave the house is rightly seen as weird, and runs counter to the principle of gender equality. Many brave women in the Middle East and Asia have died for the much more important right not to cover their faces, and I have little patience with women in this country who make a mockery of that struggle by trying to pretend they're the ones suffering oppression.

She's not required to have patience with anything. This is just her opinion. Everybody's got one.

When I see someone wearing shortie shorts, an exposed butt crack or too much cleavage, I am torn between laughing at the absurdity and irritation with the ideology it represents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So because Muslima knows somebody who voluntarily wears a niqab, and can post 2 pro-niqab videos, this proves that nobody was ever forced to wear a niqab? Pretty sure we could Google and find women who were forced to cover.

You can also find testimony from women who were forced to dress more conservatively, or less conservatively, by their families and peer groups. That doesn't mean anything. If a woman is wearing a niqab in this country, you can assume in 99 cases out of 100 that she's doing it voluntarily since there is no peer pressure and no social costs here to not wearing it. In fact, there are greater social costs levied on women who do decide to wear them.

There is a niqabi woman in my neighborhood. I see her taking her two daughters to the library all the time. She drives. We've had little friendly chats a few times. From what I can see, there is absolutely nothing forcing her to cover. That is her choice.

It sounds like these communities in France are much more isolated, police afraid to go in. How would they know if a young woman was pressured or not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So because Muslima knows somebody who voluntarily wears a niqab, and can post 2 pro-niqab videos, this proves that nobody was ever forced to wear a niqab? Pretty sure we could Google and find women who were forced to cover.

You can also find testimony from women who were forced to dress more conservatively, or less conservatively, by their families and peer groups. That doesn't mean anything. If a woman is wearing a niqab in this country, you can assume in 99 cases out of 100 that she's doing it voluntarily since there is no peer pressure and no social costs here to not wearing it. In fact, there are greater social costs levied on women who do decide to wear them.

There is a niqabi woman in my neighborhood. I see her taking her two daughters to the library all the time. She drives. We've had little friendly chats a few times. From what I can see, there is absolutely nothing forcing her to cover. That is her choice.

It sounds like these communities in France are much more isolated, police afraid to go in. How would they know if a young woman was pressured or not

That's not a niqab problem, is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:The oppressed Niqabi

Sorry, I couldn't view the video.

From the Independent article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/lets-face-it--the-niqab-is-ridiculous-and-the-ideology-behind-it-weird-8831691.html

The niqab is a ridiculous garment, adopted by a small (but growing) number of women and rejected by many mainstream Muslims. When I see someone wearing it, I'm torn between laughing at the absurdity and irritation with the ideology it represents. In secular countries, the notion that women have to cover their faces whenever they leave the house is rightly seen as weird, and runs counter to the principle of gender equality. Many brave women in the Middle East and Asia have died for the much more important right not to cover their faces, and I have little patience with women in this country who make a mockery of that struggle by trying to pretend they're the ones suffering oppression.

She's not required to have patience with anything. This is just her opinion. Everybody's got one.

When I see someone wearing shortie shorts, an exposed butt crack or too much cleavage, I am torn between laughing at the absurdity and irritation with the ideology it represents.

Are you equally as disturbed when men walk around with no shirts or wear Speedos at the beach or expose their underwear b/c it's the "cool" thing to do?

Although you may find a miniskirt offensive, at least there's the choice to dress freely - which is offered to both men and women.

Muslim men, however, can walk around freely w/o having to cover their heads. Now, I'll give Muslims props for at least forcing men to cover their chests in front of non-mahram women.

But good Lord - These rules for women are never-ending!

Covering of Women
http://www.al-islam.org/code-ethics-muslim-men-and-women-sayyid-masud-masumi/rules-related-covering

A Woman must cover her entire body, with the exception of her face and hands from non-Mahram men; and in the event that there is any zinat on her face or hands, such as a ring or if she has shaped her eyebrows, or she has applied Surma to her eyes, even if these things are common among old women, it is not wajib to cover them. In other than these scenarios, a woman must cover her zinat from non-Mahram men. However, according to Ihtiyat Mustahab, a woman should cover her face and hands from a non-Mahram, even if there is no zinat on them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:The oppressed Niqabi

Sorry, I couldn't view the video.

From the Independent article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/lets-face-it--the-niqab-is-ridiculous-and-the-ideology-behind-it-weird-8831691.html

The niqab is a ridiculous garment, adopted by a small (but growing) number of women and rejected by many mainstream Muslims. When I see someone wearing it, I'm torn between laughing at the absurdity and irritation with the ideology it represents. In secular countries, the notion that women have to cover their faces whenever they leave the house is rightly seen as weird, and runs counter to the principle of gender equality. Many brave women in the Middle East and Asia have died for the much more important right not to cover their faces, and I have little patience with women in this country who make a mockery of that struggle by trying to pretend they're the ones suffering oppression.

She's not required to have patience with anything. This is just her opinion. Everybody's got one.

When I see someone wearing shortie shorts, an exposed butt crack or too much cleavage, I am torn between laughing at the absurdity and irritation with the ideology it represents.

Are you equally as disturbed when men walk around with no shirts or wear Speedos at the beach or expose their underwear b/c it's the "cool" thing to do?

Although you may find a miniskirt offensive, at least there's the choice to dress freely - which is offered to both men and women.

Muslim men, however, can walk around freely w/o having to cover their heads. Now, I'll give Muslims props for at least forcing men to cover their chests in front of non-mahram women.

But good Lord - These rules for women are never-ending!

Covering of Women
http://www.al-islam.org/code-ethics-muslim-men-and-women-sayyid-masud-masumi/rules-related-covering

A Woman must cover her entire body, with the exception of her face and hands from non-Mahram men; and in the event that there is any zinat on her face or hands, such as a ring or if she has shaped her eyebrows, or she has applied Surma to her eyes, even if these things are common among old women, it is not wajib to cover them. In other than these scenarios, a woman must cover her zinat from non-Mahram men. However, according to Ihtiyat Mustahab, a woman should cover her face and hands from a non-Mahram, even if there is no zinat on them

I ask, again -what's it to you how adult, consenting members of a particular community decide to dress? No one is asking you to live by these rules.

[Anonymous]

The key word is *decide.*

You assume that all the women and girls are totally cool with dressing like that.

The rest of us know that many of them are forced to dress that way and aren't free to choose for themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:The oppressed Niqabi

Sorry, I couldn't view the video.

From the Independent article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/lets-face-it--the-niqab-is-ridiculous-and-the-ideology-behind-it-weird-8831691.html

The niqab is a ridiculous garment, adopted by a small (but growing) number of women and rejected by many mainstream Muslims. When I see someone wearing it, I'm torn between laughing at the absurdity and irritation with the ideology it represents. In secular countries, the notion that women have to cover their faces whenever they leave the house is rightly seen as weird, and runs counter to the principle of gender equality. Many brave women in the Middle East and Asia have died for the much more important right not to cover their faces, and I have little patience with women in this country who make a mockery of that struggle by trying to pretend they're the ones suffering oppression.

She's not required to have patience with anything. This is just her opinion. Everybody's got one.

When I see someone wearing shortie shorts, an exposed butt crack or too much cleavage, I am torn between laughing at the absurdity and irritation with the ideology it represents.

Are you equally as disturbed when men walk around with no shirts or wear Speedos at the beach or expose their underwear b/c it's the "cool" thing to do?

Although you may find a miniskirt offensive, at least there's the choice to dress freely - which is offered to both men and women.

Muslim men, however, can walk around freely w/o having to cover their heads. Now, I'll give Muslims props for at least forcing men to cover their chests in front of non-mahram women.

But good Lord - These rules for women are never-ending!

Covering of Women
http://www.al-islam.org/code-ethics-muslim-men-and-women-sayyid-masud-masumi/rules-related-covering

A Woman must cover her entire body, with the exception of her face and hands from non-Mahram men; and in the event that there is any zinat on her face or hands, such as a ring or if she has shaped her eyebrows, or she has applied Surma to her eyes, even if these things are common among old women, it is not wajib to cover them. In other than these scenarios, a woman must cover her zinat from non-Mahram men. However, according to Ihtiyat Mustahab, a woman should cover her face and hands from a non-Mahram, even if there is no zinat on them

I ask, again -what's it to you how adult, consenting members of a particular community decide to dress? No one is asking you to live by these rules.

No, but the information does give some insight into the culture and rules (at least, it reads like rules and not suggestions) by which the women live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:The oppressed Niqabi

Sorry, I couldn't view the video.

From the Independent article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/lets-face-it--the-niqab-is-ridiculous-and-the-ideology-behind-it-weird-8831691.html

The niqab is a ridiculous garment, adopted by a small (but growing) number of women and rejected by many mainstream Muslims. When I see someone wearing it, I'm torn between laughing at the absurdity and irritation with the ideology it represents. In secular countries, the notion that women have to cover their faces whenever they leave the house is rightly seen as weird, and runs counter to the principle of gender equality. Many brave women in the Middle East and Asia have died for the much more important right not to cover their faces, and I have little patience with women in this country who make a mockery of that struggle by trying to pretend they're the ones suffering oppression.

She's not required to have patience with anything. This is just her opinion. Everybody's got one.

When I see someone wearing shortie shorts, an exposed butt crack or too much cleavage, I am torn between laughing at the absurdity and irritation with the ideology it represents.

Are you equally as disturbed when men walk around with no shirts or wear Speedos at the beach or expose their underwear b/c it's the "cool" thing to do?

Although you may find a miniskirt offensive, at least there's the choice to dress freely - which is offered to both men and women.

Muslim men, however, can walk around freely w/o having to cover their heads. Now, I'll give Muslims props for at least forcing men to cover their chests in front of non-mahram women.

But good Lord - These rules for women are never-ending!

Covering of Women
http://www.al-islam.org/code-ethics-muslim-men-and-women-sayyid-masud-masumi/rules-related-covering

A Woman must cover her entire body, with the exception of her face and hands from non-Mahram men; and in the event that there is any zinat on her face or hands, such as a ring or if she has shaped her eyebrows, or she has applied Surma to her eyes, even if these things are common among old women, it is not wajib to cover them. In other than these scenarios, a woman must cover her zinat from non-Mahram men. However, according to Ihtiyat Mustahab, a woman should cover her face and hands from a non-Mahram, even if there is no zinat on them

I ask, again -what's it to you how adult, consenting members of a particular community decide to dress? No one is asking you to live by these rules.

No, but the information does give some insight into the culture and rules (at least, it reads like rules and not suggestions) by which the women live.

Yes, these are rules and not suggestions.

So where's the choice, I ask? and ask and ask . . .

[Anonymous]

And they sort of are asking others to live by these rules. Look at the uproar over stupid Selena Gomez showing her ankle in a mosque. The appropriate response to that behavior is an eye roll followed by shaking your head and saying, "Stupid American pop tart!" Nothing more.