Asian American student with 1590 SAT score blames affirmative action for rejections from 6 colleges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think reality is not so black and white, as always it is more grey. I do support favoring kids who are working jobs and then working hard to achieve good results in academics, regardless of race and ethnicity. However, I do think that due to Asian Americans doing well on test scores, schools/colleges have suddenly started placing more emphasis on non academic aspects of an application. That is the only way they can promote sports and other fluff and accommodate White and Black kids.

I was at my 6th grader's promotion ceremony the other day, their school handed out every single award under the sun for patrol, choir, theater, art, community service but there was absolutely no recognition of academic achievement. Partly, it was also so that they could inflate the egos of PTA moms by giving their kids these fluff awards but it really surprised me.

Having said that, this world is not fair and owes us nothing. We have to roll with the punches and come out strong. Guess who they will be calling when that "holistic" admissions doctor botches up the surgery.

Again, the holistic stuff was invented to target Jews in the past.
Of course, Asians know what holistic is, so they also get high scores on ECs, leadership, interview, essay, award, music, art,s etc.
However they keep moving the goalpost, and invented BS scores like courage/kindness/likability stuff.

Furthermore the funny thing is that Asian kids actually scored higher on likability by interviewers who actually talk to the students person to person.

So I think it's more black then grey.







1000+

The goal post will continue to be moved, just as it always has.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If affirmative action is banned, many students who represent the incredible diversity of Asia-Pacific nations and cultures will no longer have a URM hook (e.g., Hmong students). It's really self-defeating.

True. Many Asian-Pacific organizations oppose the lawsuit. And have indeed filed amici briefs in opposition.

Prop 209 and 16 in CA shows that many organizations are out of touch with individuals. Majority of Hispanics and Asian Americans there support a ban on affirmative action.

Dems may not want to make this a will they want to die on.

Don't be silly. In terms of college admissions- topic at hand- CA already banned AA AND the main public colleges are primarily test blind, so it really doesn't matter what they think about AA in that state anymore. In terms of politics ( you referred to Dems), CA is solid blue and will remain that way because of the same Hispanics and Asian Americans.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

Imagine an elite college institution caring more about sports than academics. Only in America.

Imagine applying to an elite school and not understanding what their priorities were. So smart, yet so stupid.

indeed.. imagine not realizing that an elite academic institution cares more about sports than academics.

Unless you're new here you would already know that. Being culturally clueless isn't a defense.

and you think it makes total sense that an elite academic institution cares more about sports than academics?

What do you think makes it elite? You want change the rules and make it something else? Then it won't be elite. The arrogance of deciding the rules now need to be changed to benefit you because you don't like them.

Well, an academic "elite" means "top of the class", "super smart". It doesn't mean "we care more about athletics than academics". Imagine if the NFL cared more about academics than athleticism. People would scoff at that, right?

Institutions are "elite" because of the connections with powerful people in industry. Historically, wealthy white people used it as "an old boys" club to keep the unwanted out. When Jews started to increase their numbers, Harvard decided that there were too many of them so they introduced the BS "holistic", "likeability" factor.

Do you think it was fine that Harvard did that to limit the number of Jews? If not, why do you think it's fine that they limit the number of Asian Americans using the same BS factor?

And that perhaps is the crux of the problem. Letting in an unlimited number of high scoring but poor, middle class, unconnected, etc. kids diminishes the value of the institution. Kids & parents who lust for these ivies are chasing financial & prestige advantages. Yet their presence in great numbers changes the dynamic and the advantages. For supposedly smart kids, not understanding why they don't see this.

connections build on connections.

First class will use the connections of the previous class; next class uses the connections of the second class.. and so on and so forth.

Several elite colleges have turned of the ALDC spigot, and they are still considered "elite".

The American Medical Academy has come out against using ALDC for medical schools. Do you think these medical schools will be any less elite?

https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-announces-new-policies-during-second-day-annual-meeting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If affirmative action is banned, many students who represent the incredible diversity of Asia-Pacific nations and cultures will no longer have a URM hook (e.g., Hmong students). It's really self-defeating.

True. Many Asian-Pacific organizations oppose the lawsuit. And have indeed filed amici briefs in opposition.

Prop 209 and 16 in CA shows that many organizations are out of touch with individuals. Majority of Hispanics and Asian Americans there support a ban on affirmative action.

Dems may not want to make this a will they want to die on.

Don't be silly. In terms of college admissions- topic at hand- CA already banned AA AND the main public colleges are primarily test blind, so it really doesn't matter what they think about AA in that state anymore. In terms of politics ( you referred to Dems), CA is solid blue and will remain that way because of the same Hispanics and Asian Americans.

I'm not referring to just CA. You know that there are other blue states, too, right? And some purple states that may turn blue if Dems keep picking fights for things that most of their constituents don't care about so much.

[Anonymous]

Who would want to be at a school where they were not wanted??

The Jewish people were not wanted, so they started their own schools.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

Imagine an elite college institution caring more about sports than academics. Only in America.

Imagine applying to an elite school and not understanding what their priorities were. So smart, yet so stupid.

indeed.. imagine not realizing that an elite academic institution cares more about sports than academics.

Unless you're new here you would already know that. Being culturally clueless isn't a defense.

and you think it makes total sense that an elite academic institution cares more about sports than academics?

What do you think makes it elite? You want change the rules and make it something else? Then it won't be elite. The arrogance of deciding the rules now need to be changed to benefit you because you don't like them.

Well, an academic "elite" means "top of the class", "super smart". It doesn't mean "we care more about athletics than academics". Imagine if the NFL cared more about academics than athleticism. People would scoff at that, right?

Institutions are "elite" because of the connections with powerful people in industry. Historically, wealthy white people used it as "an old boys" club to keep the unwanted out. When Jews started to increase their numbers, Harvard decided that there were too many of them so they introduced the BS "holistic", "likeability" factor.

Do you think it was fine that Harvard did that to limit the number of Jews? If not, why do you think it's fine that they limit the number of Asian Americans using the same BS factor?

No, elite doesn't mean what you think it means. Imagine trying to get into a school where you don't understand the institutional priorities, goals, history, or requirements. These schools are not for you. You don't get it and never will.

Oh, so is that why they want to keep ALDC? Because that is what makes it "elite"? Yes, when something is out of reach for the vast majority of people, it becomes "elite". They hoard the opportunities for themselves and don't want too many Asian Americans becoming elite, I guess. They won't ever have to worry about URM becoming too elite since there aren't enough qualified URM to fill the school. But, they know that the entire school could be filled with with high achieving Asian Americans, and that's just too many of them. Gosh, it sounds like we are back in the 1920s when it was ok to discriminate against Jews.

Some of these kids are household names at these schools. Who is Jon Wang? Who has ever heard of him? What makes him so special?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If affirmative action is banned, many students who represent the incredible diversity of Asia-Pacific nations and cultures will no longer have a URM hook (e.g., Hmong students). It's really self-defeating.

True. Many Asian-Pacific organizations oppose the lawsuit. And have indeed filed amici briefs in opposition.

Prop 209 and 16 in CA shows that many organizations are out of touch with individuals. Majority of Hispanics and Asian Americans there support a ban on affirmative action.

Dems may not want to make this a will they want to die on.

Don't be silly. In terms of college admissions- topic at hand- CA already banned AA AND the main public colleges are primarily test blind, so it really doesn't matter what they think about AA in that state anymore. In terms of politics ( you referred to Dems), CA is solid blue and will remain that way because of the same Hispanics and Asian Americans.

I'm not referring to just CA. You know that there are other blue states, too, right? And some purple states that may turn blue if Dems keep picking fights for things that most of their constituents don't care about so much.

Wrong. States are pretty much set. Just getting "redder" or "bluer".

Blame Trump.

But you can go to the Politics forum if you want to about Dems more.

[Anonymous]

* talk about Dems...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

It matters unless the school is test blind.
So kids should do their best getting top score.
It's a common sense.

Also common sense is not getting rascally discriminated.
Very very common sense stuff.

For all we know every other kid admitted to those schools for the same major had a 1600 and higher GPA. 1590 wasn't good enough.

Check your math.
Three are close to 2 million test takers each year, and only about 1,000 get the 1600 perfect score.
Harvard alone admits about 2000 students.

Clueless people are pending its not a big deal to get 1600 1590, and prepping would easily do that, but it's extremely hard and a big accomplishment.

But yet Harvard and the likes no longer care, once you hit the 1500+ it does not matter. And that is what these people are mad about. So rather than recognizing that it's only 1 small part of the admission picture, they get mad that their perfect/near perfect SAT kid did not gain admission to a highly rejective school. Most elite schools only care that you hit a certain mark (or just don't submit scores) and then they dont' look at SAT/ACT anymore. It's not the be all end all for deciding who is the best candidate. You may be mad about that, but it's reality. And IMO a good reality....many more indicators of who will be successful in life than an SAT test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think reality is not so black and white, as always it is more grey. I do support favoring kids who are working jobs and then working hard to achieve good results in academics, regardless of race and ethnicity. However, I do think that due to Asian Americans doing well on test scores, schools/colleges have suddenly started placing more emphasis on non academic aspects of an application. That is the only way they can promote sports and other fluff and accommodate White and Black kids.

I was at my 6th grader's promotion ceremony the other day, their school handed out every single award under the sun for patrol, choir, theater, art, community service but there was absolutely no recognition of academic achievement. Partly, it was also so that they could inflate the egos of PTA moms by giving their kids these fluff awards but it really surprised me.

Having said that, this world is not fair and owes us nothing. We have to roll with the punches and come out strong. Guess who they will be calling when that "holistic" admissions doctor botches up the surgery.

Except holistic admissions is not hurting anyone that way. To become a doctor you must gain admission to medical school, you must survive and pass medical school, then you must complete a rigorous residency successfully and pass the boards to be a certified doctor. If you are not up to speed, you are not doing that. Holistic admissions recognizes that there is more to life than just test taking---but yes if you want to be a doctor, test taking/actually learning the material is important. To be an successful undergrad at Harvard, not so much so----there is a time and place for everything

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

It matters unless the school is test blind.
So kids should do their best getting top score.
It's a common sense.

Also common sense is not getting rascally discriminated.
Very very common sense stuff.

For all we know every other kid admitted to those schools for the same major had a 1600 and higher GPA. 1590 wasn't good enough.

Check your math.
Three are close to 2 million test takers each year, and only about 1,000 get the 1600 perfect score.
Harvard alone admits about 2000 students.

Clueless people are pending its not a big deal to get 1600 1590, and prepping would easily do that, but it's extremely hard and a big accomplishment.

But yet Harvard and the likes no longer care, once you hit the 1500+ it does not matter. And that is what these people are mad about. So rather than recognizing that it's only 1 small part of the admission picture, they get mad that their perfect/near perfect SAT kid did not gain admission to a highly rejective school. Most elite schools only care that you hit a certain mark (or just don't submit scores) and then they dont' look at SAT/ACT anymore. It's not the be all end all for deciding who is the best candidate. You may be mad about that, but it's reality. And IMO a good reality....many more indicators of who will be successful in life than an SAT test.

Even 1500 is a bit high. They are fine with 1450 and even okay with 1400 because those numbers aren't the whole story.

And for what it is worth I think this thread a dumpster fire. Somebody please please please just delete it or something. Nothing new has been said for days now

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

Imagine an elite college institution caring more about sports than academics. Only in America.

Imagine applying to an elite school and not understanding what their priorities were. So smart, yet so stupid.

indeed.. imagine not realizing that an elite academic institution cares more about sports than academics.

Unless you're new here you would already know that. Being culturally clueless isn't a defense.

and you think it makes total sense that an elite academic institution cares more about sports than academics?

What do you think makes it elite? You want change the rules and make it something else? Then it won't be elite. The arrogance of deciding the rules now need to be changed to benefit you because you don't like them.

Well, an academic "elite" means "top of the class", "super smart". It doesn't mean "we care more about athletics than academics". Imagine if the NFL cared more about academics than athleticism. People would scoff at that, right?

Institutions are "elite" because of the connections with powerful people in industry. Historically, wealthy white people used it as "an old boys" club to keep the unwanted out. When Jews started to increase their numbers, Harvard decided that there were too many of them so they introduced the BS "holistic", "likeability" factor.

Do you think it was fine that Harvard did that to limit the number of Jews? If not, why do you think it's fine that they limit the number of Asian Americans using the same BS factor?

The PP is trying to tell you that if you succeed in making Harvard a school that admits in strict SAT order, it will immediately become non-elite.

Sure! There are no elite schools in, say, the UK where they admit primarily based on academic credentials!

Iowa admits entirely on academic credentials. Is Iowa elite?

Purdue has more than three times as many FTFY students with SAT math scores of 700+ as Harvard does. Is Purdue elite?

This kid got into Georgia Tech! Is Georgia Tech elite?

The fact is there are plenty of American schools that admit primarily on academic credentials. The problem isn’t that they don’t exist. The problem is that they aren’t the schools you want to go to.

If Harvard were forced to admit in pure SAT order, all the rich New York people, with all their donations and jobs and connections, would go somewhere else. And then that place would become elite.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If affirmative action is banned, many students who represent the incredible diversity of Asia-Pacific nations and cultures will no longer have a URM hook (e.g., Hmong students). It's really self-defeating.

True. Many Asian-Pacific organizations oppose the lawsuit. And have indeed filed amici briefs in opposition.

Prop 209 and 16 in CA shows that many organizations are out of touch with individuals. Majority of Hispanics and Asian Americans there support a ban on affirmative action.

Dems may not want to make this a will they want to die on.

Don't be silly. In terms of college admissions- topic at hand- CA already banned AA AND the main public colleges are primarily test blind, so it really doesn't matter what they think about AA in that state anymore. In terms of politics ( you referred to Dems), CA is solid blue and will remain that way because of the same Hispanics and Asian Americans.

I'm not referring to just CA. You know that there are other blue states, too, right? And some purple states that may turn blue if Dems keep picking fights for things that most of their constituents don't care about so much.

Wrong. States are pretty much set. Just getting "redder" or "bluer".

Blame Trump.

But you can go to the Politics forum if you want to about Dems more.

This is very much tied to politics.

No party can win without the Independents, and Dems can easily lose voters if they keep trying to push affirmative action on the American people, where the majority of people don't support race based affirmative action.

Most people support affirmative action based on SES, but not race. Using SES will automatically help a lot of black kids, but the wealthy black kid doesn't need a leg up over a middle class Asian American kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

It matters unless the school is test blind.
So kids should do their best getting top score.
It's a common sense.

Also common sense is not getting rascally discriminated.
Very very common sense stuff.

For all we know every other kid admitted to those schools for the same major had a 1600 and higher GPA. 1590 wasn't good enough.

Check your math.
Three are close to 2 million test takers each year, and only about 1,000 get the 1600 perfect score.
Harvard alone admits about 2000 students.

Clueless people are pending its not a big deal to get 1600 1590, and prepping would easily do that, but it's extremely hard and a big accomplishment.

But yet Harvard and the likes no longer care, once you hit the 1500+ it does not matter. And that is what these people are mad about. So rather than recognizing that it's only 1 small part of the admission picture, they get mad that their perfect/near perfect SAT kid did not gain admission to a highly rejective school. Most elite schools only care that you hit a certain mark (or just don't submit scores) and then they dont' look at SAT/ACT anymore. It's not the be all end all for deciding who is the best candidate. You may be mad about that, but it's reality. And IMO a good reality....many more indicators of who will be successful in life than an SAT test.

Even 1500 is a bit high. They are fine with 1450 and even okay with 1400 because those numbers aren't the whole story.

And for what it is worth I think this thread a dumpster fire. Somebody please please please just delete it or something. Nothing new has been said for days now

+1

Agreed! I know many smart kids who don't have 1550+ and go on to med school, law school or getting their PHD in STEM. Just like back in the day (30-40 years ago, when we were in HS/College), I know. many kids who never even took Calc in HS (my HS had 13 of us in reg calc our senior year out of 600 kids), yet I personally know 4 doctors, and 3 with the PHD in STEM fields and only 1 of them was in my calc class. Plenty of people are intellectually curious and go on to do great things that were not "all stars" in HS---Harvard and the elite schools want to find those kids and include them in their classes just as much as the 1590 kids. And it is their right to do that. They see the value of first gen and low income students getting the opportunity to attend Harvard. I for one am glad they want some diversity not just be the wealthy enclave it has always been (still is, but they are working to add a bit more diversity on all levels)

[Anonymous]

IMO, the reason why Harvard wants to keep affirmative action is because otherwise, they'd have to get rid of ALDC to get a more diverse student body. If they got rid of ALDC, they could use SES based affirmative action to get a diverse student body. But, they want to hoard the opportunity to mostly wealthy white families, so they pit Asian Americans against URM.