Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how Tom has become less of a yokel and a better sexual equal for Shiv. That discussion about how he loves money was amazing. Are these two crazy kids going to make it work after all??

I don't think so. I think this is a brief reprieve before the shit really hits the fan between them.

I’ve always had inklings that Tom was going to eventually hit Shiv. A long time ago when she was belittling him during a dinner date with another couple and he snapped at her- I saw it then- and that, combined with his cruelty to Greg and his smarmy niceness to Shiv most of the time…. And now, when he bit her and she was like “oh you finally made me feel something” …. I could be off base but I really could see him being a closet abuser. And shiv, with her history of trauma and abuse, would probably “love” him more when he did.

I don't get that vibe at all. In fact, I think Tom has steeled himself to take an awful lot. Tom doesn't really lose control.

+1
And he would never hit Shiv. He's actually very chivalrous with her.

But the question is whether he has pent up rage - and I'm not sure if he does. I don't think so, though.

Their scenes together these last two episodes have been incredible. I've never felt any passion or intimacy between them before, and it's just burning through now. Like these two tragic people desperate for connection - and other things - finding it with each other. Or are they? I guess like naive PP, I am rooting for them - though I don't think their emotional life will ever be easy (even if they get, and keep, all the money).

That money monologue was amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Shiv is closer to 16 weeks, so possibly not showing with a first-time pregnancy.

The convo with her doctor going over the screening results was just a few days ago (each episode is one day this season), and the dr. was talking about seeing her next at the 20 week appt. You are only going to the dr every 4 weeks at that stage of pregnancy. This is my understanding of the timeline, correct me if I am off base.

Each episode is only supposed to be 1 day? I've been very confused by how much time has supposedly gone by but this seems a little unrealistic. They were in NY in episode 3 when Logan died and episode 4 was the next day at Logan's apartment; then episode 5 is the next day in Norway; episode 6 a day later in LA?

Private jets, helicopters, billionaires. It's not that unrealistic. These people are not booking commercial flights, wasting time in traffic, standing in lines, etc.

Though they obviously spent at least 2 days in Norway (there's an overnight).

Speaking of private jets, I found that scene with Shiv and Lukas on the plane pretty hilarious in terms of billionaire ahole behavior. Him calling from the next jet over, then walking over BAREFOOT to visit, then making some comment about the interior of her jet and her rolling her eyes and calling him out on the childishness of insulin someone's private jet interior. I have no idea if that's what it's actually like to live that life but it was funny to contemplate in that scene.

Not a billionaire, but having worked with people like this and done my time on corporate jets — that scene rang *so* true. When you get to that level, it’s really the only thing that distinguishes the incredibly rich from the ridiculously rich from the obscenely rich. But the biggest flex of all is not caring. It was a “tell” — Matsson is new to it and still impressed by the trappings of wealth.

Upthread someone questioned Kendall’s comment about the size of his room in a Norway. That rang true to me, as well, but it had nothing to do with Kendall being spoiled. Kendall was sensitive to the status games Matsson was playing. That’s why he asked Roman if his room was small as well. He doesn’t care about it if everyone has a small room, but he wants to know if he’s being dissed.

That's interesting, reminds me of a New Yorker article I read last year about super yachts, all these billionaires playing games to get the biggest boat. It makes you realize what a trap all this is, none of these people will ever be truly satisfied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WTH kind of name is "Wambsgans"? Sounds like it was completely made up.

I read somewhere it is actually a reference to a baseball player. According to wiki:

"He is best remembered for making one of the most spectacular defensive plays in World Series history, an unassisted triple play." !!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Wambsganss

Fascinating! Was Tom betraying the 3 sibs baked into his character from the start?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WTH kind of name is "Wambsgans"? Sounds like it was completely made up.

Lol. Clearly you have no friends from Minnesota.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how Tom has become less of a yokel and a better sexual equal for Shiv. That discussion about how he loves money was amazing. Are these two crazy kids going to make it work after all??

I don't think so. I think this is a brief reprieve before the shit really hits the fan between them.

I’ve always had inklings that Tom was going to eventually hit Shiv. A long time ago when she was belittling him during a dinner date with another couple and he snapped at her- I saw it then- and that, combined with his cruelty to Greg and his smarmy niceness to Shiv most of the time…. And now, when he bit her and she was like “oh you finally made me feel something” …. I could be off base but I really could see him being a closet abuser. And shiv, with her history of trauma and abuse, would probably “love” him more when he did.

You are way off base. Stop making up back stories that aren't a thing.

Everything I mentioned absolutely has happened , on screen. None of them are made up back stories. Feel free to make your own predictions for their relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WTH kind of name is "Wambsgans"? Sounds like it was completely made up.

I think they picked a name that would emphasize his middle-class, midwestern upbringing (i.e., he’s learned to mimic the trappings, but he’s clearly not a trust fund blue blood).

Lifelong Midwesterner here, have lived in Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, and Michigan, and I've never heard this name in my life! It's pretty freaking rare.

https://forebears.io/surnames/wambsgans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how Tom has become less of a yokel and a better sexual equal for Shiv. That discussion about how he loves money was amazing. Are these two crazy kids going to make it work after all??

I don't think so. I think this is a brief reprieve before the shit really hits the fan between them.

I’ve always had inklings that Tom was going to eventually hit Shiv. A long time ago when she was belittling him during a dinner date with another couple and he snapped at her- I saw it then- and that, combined with his cruelty to Greg and his smarmy niceness to Shiv most of the time…. And now, when he bit her and she was like “oh you finally made me feel something” …. I could be off base but I really could see him being a closet abuser. And shiv, with her history of trauma and abuse, would probably “love” him more when he did.

I don't get that vibe at all. In fact, I think Tom has steeled himself to take an awful lot. Tom doesn't really lose control.

+1
And he would never hit Shiv. He's actually very chivalrous with her.

But the question is whether he has pent up rage - and I'm not sure if he does. I don't think so, though.

Their scenes together these last two episodes have been incredible. I've never felt any passion or intimacy between them before, and it's just burning through now. Like these two tragic people desperate for connection - and other things - finding it with each other. Or are they? I guess like naive PP, I am rooting for them - though I don't think their emotional life will ever be easy (even if they get, and keep, all the money).

That money monologue was amazing.

I loved the money monologue. And I guess I don’t get pent up rage vibes this season either, but I used to. When he’d go from being a doormat around shiv to screaming and punching Greg and messing up Greg’s office, to where Greg was afraid of him basically. But they’ve seemed to lean away from that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don’t know what Tom knows right now.

The Shiv scenes are the only ones I care about right now.

The whole thing with Kendall and Roman and living plus or whatever made no sense and was dumb. Sorry. Dumb dumb. Not believable, and dumb.

It's... an old folks home? But with film directors stopping by to screen movies? And also maybe we'll figure out how to help you live an extra 50 years I don't know how don't ask but we're looking into it?

I was annoyed that it played well in the room and looked like a win for Kendall after his presentation was over. I mean, I guess it's more interesting if Kendall and Roman don't instantly fall flat on their faces and lose to Lukas/Shiv/Geri/Karl/everyone rooting against them, but it still strains credulity. I think IRL a presentation like that would get eviscerated on Twitter and wind up knocking the company's stock price down. But what do I know.

And yet investors gave Elizabeth Holmes billions for Theranos. Never underestimate how far you can get with a bit of confidence and the ability to lie fluently. Of course, it *usually* catches up with you eventually.

Sure but at least the idea behind Theranos sounded like a really good one. They didn't have the tech to back it up and just lied about it for years, but if it was actually possible to run a myriad of blood tests from a single drop of blood, on a machine that you could keep on your kitchen counter, that would actually solve a bunch of problems for a bunch of people. It's terrible what Theranos did but I actually understand why a lot of people bought into it, because the underlying concept is something really great.

Whereas Living+, on it's face, sounds dumb. Or at least very original. It's a fancy old folks home? A cruise on dry land? Who is asking for these things. Wealthy old people use their money to stay out of these closed communities that warehouse the elderly. No one wants a cruise experience without a boat. There is zero demand for this.

Sure, Kendall threw in the part about "what if we could extend life?" but it was transparently imaginary. Like he literally walked it back as he said and landed on "wouldn't that be amazing?" If that's how Elizabeth Holmes had first pitched Theranos, I think people would have been like "oh."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love how Tom has become less of a yokel and a better sexual equal for Shiv. That discussion about how he loves money was amazing. Are these two crazy kids going to make it work after all??

I hope so. They're kind of hot together, especially now that he's "less of a yokel."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don’t know what Tom knows right now.

The Shiv scenes are the only ones I care about right now.

The whole thing with Kendall and Roman and living plus or whatever made no sense and was dumb. Sorry. Dumb dumb. Not believable, and dumb.

It's... an old folks home? But with film directors stopping by to screen movies? And also maybe we'll figure out how to help you live an extra 50 years I don't know how don't ask but we're looking into it?

I was annoyed that it played well in the room and looked like a win for Kendall after his presentation was over. I mean, I guess it's more interesting if Kendall and Roman don't instantly fall flat on their faces and lose to Lukas/Shiv/Geri/Karl/everyone rooting against them, but it still strains credulity. I think IRL a presentation like that would get eviscerated on Twitter and wind up knocking the company's stock price down. But what do I know.

And yet investors gave Elizabeth Holmes billions for Theranos. Never underestimate how far you can get with a bit of confidence and the ability to lie fluently. Of course, it *usually* catches up with you eventually.

Sure but at least the idea behind Theranos sounded like a really good one. They didn't have the tech to back it up and just lied about it for years, but if it was actually possible to run a myriad of blood tests from a single drop of blood, on a machine that you could keep on your kitchen counter, that would actually solve a bunch of problems for a bunch of people. It's terrible what Theranos did but I actually understand why a lot of people bought into it, because the underlying concept is something really great.

Whereas Living+, on it's face, sounds dumb. Or at least very original. It's a fancy old folks home? A cruise on dry land? Who is asking for these things. Wealthy old people use their money to stay out of these closed communities that warehouse the elderly. No one wants a cruise experience without a boat. There is zero demand for this.

Sure, Kendall threw in the part about "what if we could extend life?" but it was transparently imaginary. Like he literally walked it back as he said and landed on "wouldn't that be amazing?" If that's how Elizabeth Holmes had first pitched Theranos, I think people would have been like "oh."

I know -- but I think Kendall's nutty idea is an excellent parody of Theranos + probably many less well-known shady scenarios. With Kendall's propensity for stupid business jargon, I think they do a nice job of satire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Shiv is closer to 16 weeks, so possibly not showing with a first-time pregnancy.

The convo with her doctor going over the screening results was just a few days ago (each episode is one day this season), and the dr. was talking about seeing her next at the 20 week appt. You are only going to the dr every 4 weeks at that stage of pregnancy. This is my understanding of the timeline, correct me if I am off base.

Each episode is only supposed to be 1 day? I've been very confused by how much time has supposedly gone by but this seems a little unrealistic. They were in NY in episode 3 when Logan died and episode 4 was the next day at Logan's apartment; then episode 5 is the next day in Norway; episode 6 a day later in LA?

Private jets, helicopters, billionaires. It's not that unrealistic. These people are not booking commercial flights, wasting time in traffic, standing in lines, etc.

Though they obviously spent at least 2 days in Norway (there's an overnight).

Speaking of private jets, I found that scene with Shiv and Lukas on the plane pretty hilarious in terms of billionaire ahole behavior. Him calling from the next jet over, then walking over BAREFOOT to visit, then making some comment about the interior of her jet and her rolling her eyes and calling him out on the childishness of insulin someone's private jet interior. I have no idea if that's what it's actually like to live that life but it was funny to contemplate in that scene.

Not a billionaire, but having worked with people like this and done my time on corporate jets — that scene rang *so* true. When you get to that level, it’s really the only thing that distinguishes the incredibly rich from the ridiculously rich from the obscenely rich. But the biggest flex of all is not caring. It was a “tell” — Matsson is new to it and still impressed by the trappings of wealth.

Upthread someone questioned Kendall’s comment about the size of his room in a Norway. That rang true to me, as well, but it had nothing to do with Kendall being spoiled. Kendall was sensitive to the status games Matsson was playing. That’s why he asked Roman if his room was small as well. He doesn’t care about it if everyone has a small room, but he wants to know if he’s being dissed.

That's interesting, reminds me of a New Yorker article I read last year about super yachts, all these billionaires playing games to get the biggest boat. It makes you realize what a trap all this is, none of these people will ever be truly satisfied.

Michael Lewis's book The New New Thing talks about this too. It's a really interesting profile of all these tech billionaires and what drives them. It is very hard to read about stuff like this and maintain a large amount of respect for these guys. Most of them are petty, permanently unhappy people who have destroyed their families and have no real friends. Many of them have likely personality disorders. There may have once been a time when the richest people in the world were living the best lives (maybe, I'm skeptical) but it's definitely not now. They might be living comfortable lives but many/most of them are miserable human beings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how Tom has become less of a yokel and a better sexual equal for Shiv. That discussion about how he loves money was amazing. Are these two crazy kids going to make it work after all??

I don't think so. I think this is a brief reprieve before the shit really hits the fan between them.

I’ve always had inklings that Tom was going to eventually hit Shiv. A long time ago when she was belittling him during a dinner date with another couple and he snapped at her- I saw it then- and that, combined with his cruelty to Greg and his smarmy niceness to Shiv most of the time…. And now, when he bit her and she was like “oh you finally made me feel something” …. I could be off base but I really could see him being a closet abuser. And shiv, with her history of trauma and abuse, would probably “love” him more when he did.

I don't get that vibe at all. In fact, I think Tom has steeled himself to take an awful lot. Tom doesn't really lose control.

+1
And he would never hit Shiv. He's actually very chivalrous with her.

His chivalry is what's making him hot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don’t know what Tom knows right now.

The Shiv scenes are the only ones I care about right now.

The whole thing with Kendall and Roman and living plus or whatever made no sense and was dumb. Sorry. Dumb dumb. Not believable, and dumb.

It's... an old folks home? But with film directors stopping by to screen movies? And also maybe we'll figure out how to help you live an extra 50 years I don't know how don't ask but we're looking into it?

I was annoyed that it played well in the room and looked like a win for Kendall after his presentation was over. I mean, I guess it's more interesting if Kendall and Roman don't instantly fall flat on their faces and lose to Lukas/Shiv/Geri/Karl/everyone rooting against them, but it still strains credulity. I think IRL a presentation like that would get eviscerated on Twitter and wind up knocking the company's stock price down. But what do I know.

And yet investors gave Elizabeth Holmes billions for Theranos. Never underestimate how far you can get with a bit of confidence and the ability to lie fluently. Of course, it *usually* catches up with you eventually.

Sure but at least the idea behind Theranos sounded like a really good one. They didn't have the tech to back it up and just lied about it for years, but if it was actually possible to run a myriad of blood tests from a single drop of blood, on a machine that you could keep on your kitchen counter, that would actually solve a bunch of problems for a bunch of people. It's terrible what Theranos did but I actually understand why a lot of people bought into it, because the underlying concept is something really great.

Whereas Living+, on it's face, sounds dumb. Or at least very original. It's a fancy old folks home? A cruise on dry land? Who is asking for these things. Wealthy old people use their money to stay out of these closed communities that warehouse the elderly. No one wants a cruise experience without a boat. There is zero demand for this.

Sure, Kendall threw in the part about "what if we could extend life?" but it was transparently imaginary. Like he literally walked it back as he said and landed on "wouldn't that be amazing?" If that's how Elizabeth Holmes had first pitched Theranos, I think people would have been like "oh."

I know -- but I think Kendall's nutty idea is an excellent parody of Theranos + probably many less well-known shady scenarios. With Kendall's propensity for stupid business jargon, I think they do a nice job of satire.

Maybe. A major difference between Kendall and Holmes, though is that Holmes was able to sell herself as self-made. She was smart enough to get into Stanford and it appears that she did at some point have some talent in her field, and then she took that kernel to build this mystique around herself as the next genius college dropout with a brilliant idea. It was a house of cards and ideally people have learned a lesson about thinking that dropping out of college to found a tech start-up is not actually evidence of genius. But she was patterning herself after Gates and Jobs and other famous smart people who built tech companies at her age.

Kendall is a 40 year old trust fund baby and everyone knows it. He can't "build a mystique" around himself because he's been in the public eye for decades and everyone knows exactly what he is. No one is like "wait, is he actually a hidden genius and we're just now finding out??"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WTH kind of name is "Wambsgans"? Sounds like it was completely made up.

I read somewhere it is actually a reference to a baseball player. According to wiki:

"He is best remembered for making one of the most spectacular defensive plays in World Series history, an unassisted triple play." !!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Wambsganss

I like how they even "Americanized" the name by dropping the second s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don’t know what Tom knows right now.

The Shiv scenes are the only ones I care about right now.

The whole thing with Kendall and Roman and living plus or whatever made no sense and was dumb. Sorry. Dumb dumb. Not believable, and dumb.

It's... an old folks home? But with film directors stopping by to screen movies? And also maybe we'll figure out how to help you live an extra 50 years I don't know how don't ask but we're looking into it?

I was annoyed that it played well in the room and looked like a win for Kendall after his presentation was over. I mean, I guess it's more interesting if Kendall and Roman don't instantly fall flat on their faces and lose to Lukas/Shiv/Geri/Karl/everyone rooting against them, but it still strains credulity. I think IRL a presentation like that would get eviscerated on Twitter and wind up knocking the company's stock price down. But what do I know.

And yet investors gave Elizabeth Holmes billions for Theranos. Never underestimate how far you can get with a bit of confidence and the ability to lie fluently. Of course, it *usually* catches up with you eventually.

Sure but at least the idea behind Theranos sounded like a really good one. They didn't have the tech to back it up and just lied about it for years, but if it was actually possible to run a myriad of blood tests from a single drop of blood, on a machine that you could keep on your kitchen counter, that would actually solve a bunch of problems for a bunch of people. It's terrible what Theranos did but I actually understand why a lot of people bought into it, because the underlying concept is something really great.

Whereas Living+, on it's face, sounds dumb. Or at least very original. It's a fancy old folks home? A cruise on dry land? Who is asking for these things. Wealthy old people use their money to stay out of these closed communities that warehouse the elderly. No one wants a cruise experience without a boat. There is zero demand for this.

Sure, Kendall threw in the part about "what if we could extend life?" but it was transparently imaginary. Like he literally walked it back as he said and landed on "wouldn't that be amazing?" If that's how Elizabeth Holmes had first pitched Theranos, I think people would have been like "oh."

I live in Florida and I promise there are plenty of old people who are excited to live in a cruise ship on land.