How common is failing your dissertation defense?

Anonymous
Just curious. I don’t know if there are hard and fast percentages out there, but for anybody who has been in a PhD program, how many of your colleagues were successful with their dissertation defense? How many or not? If you fail it, are you permitted a second chance to present? Or is it one and done? What happens with the degree status if you don’t pass?
Anonymous
You can defend again. You don’t defend until you are prepared, and your major professor should be sure you are prepared. It isn’t a test in the usual sense. Im sure difference disciplines do it differently, but I think if you get to the point of defending your dissertation you generally are going to finish. Many people never defend, though - that is the real danger.
Anonymous
I don’t know anyone who failed. I do know one person whose advisor wanted to fail him (unfairly), but he talked to his other committee members and went ahead with the defense & passed.
I’m not sure what happens if you fail, but it’s important to talk to your advisor & committee in advance to make sure you’ve done enough before trying to defend.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:You can defend again. You don’t defend until you are prepared, and your major professor should be sure you are prepared. It isn’t a test in the usual sense. Im sure difference disciplines do it differently, but I think if you get to the point of defending your dissertation you generally are going to finish. Many people never defend, though - that is the real danger.


This. Generally, dissertation advisors gatekeep defense. If the professor allows it and you fail, that reflects poorly on the advisor. If I was a committee member, I'd be pissed as a lot of preparation goes into preparing for a defense and a not ready for prime time dissertation is a massive waste of everyone's time.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Just curious. I don’t know if there are hard and fast percentages out there, but for anybody who has been in a PhD program, how many of your colleagues were successful with their dissertation defense? How many or not? If you fail it, are you permitted a second chance to present? Or is it one and done? What happens with the degree status if you don’t pass?


My program had a high fail rate both at our university and compared to similar programs at similar universities. It is also has a high rate of people dropping out. I’m ABD because I dropped out. The same year, a friend transferred (unheard of!) and started over again at another local university. Even with having to retake comps a year later, she was happier. Three of our classmates failed within the next two years. It was a toxic environment.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just curious. I don’t know if there are hard and fast percentages out there, but for anybody who has been in a PhD program, how many of your colleagues were successful with their dissertation defense? How many or not? If you fail it, are you permitted a second chance to present? Or is it one and done? What happens with the degree status if you don’t pass?


My program had a high fail rate both at our university and compared to similar programs at similar universities. It is also has a high rate of people dropping out. I’m ABD because I dropped out. The same year, a friend transferred (unheard of!) and started over again at another local university. Even with having to retake comps a year later, she was happier. Three of our classmates failed within the next two years. It was a toxic environment.


For your colleagues that failed, did they go back to continue work and present again? You can’t claim a PhD on a résumé or call yourself Dr. with ABD, right?
Anonymous
Its very uncommon in the programs that I'm familiar with. By the time you get to that point, you have your chair -- who is very familiar with your work, and two other people who have read your dissertation and have agreed that you're ready to defend. There will be two other professors added to your team, but you're going into it knowing that the majority of the people on your team believe that you should be there. What's more common is that you will Pass your defense -- but be asked to rewrite a section or address an issue before the team finally signs off on it as officially Passed.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just curious. I don’t know if there are hard and fast percentages out there, but for anybody who has been in a PhD program, how many of your colleagues were successful with their dissertation defense? How many or not? If you fail it, are you permitted a second chance to present? Or is it one and done? What happens with the degree status if you don’t pass?


My program had a high fail rate both at our university and compared to similar programs at similar universities. It is also has a high rate of people dropping out. I’m ABD because I dropped out. The same year, a friend transferred (unheard of!) and started over again at another local university. Even with having to retake comps a year later, she was happier. Three of our classmates failed within the next two years. It was a toxic environment.


For your colleagues that failed, did they go back to continue work and present again? You can’t claim a PhD on a résumé or call yourself Dr. with ABD, right?



NO, you cannot "claim a PhD on a resume or call yourself Dr. with an ABD". I'm not clear why this is even a question. You can't claim credentials that you haven't earned. If you're in a field that includes licensing and/or a member of a professional organization with an ethics code, doing so will likely torpedo your career in very wide-reaching ways.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can defend again. You don’t defend until you are prepared, and your major professor should be sure you are prepared. It isn’t a test in the usual sense. Im sure difference disciplines do it differently, but I think if you get to the point of defending your dissertation you generally are going to finish. Many people never defend, though - that is the real danger.


This. Generally, dissertation advisors gatekeep defense. If the professor allows it and you fail, that reflects poorly on the advisor. If I was a committee member, I'd be pissed as a lot of preparation goes into preparing for a defense and a not ready for prime time dissertation is a massive waste of everyone's time.


It's this. Outside referees come in (sometimes from far away) to attend the defense. The defense is not supposed to be a real test. Your advisor should not allow the real defense to be organized unless it's sure you are ready.
Anonymous
If you are going to fail, your supervisor and committee won't let you defend. On rare occasions where it goes ahead and the person fails, they are usually allowed to defend again or they are told to make major revisions to their thesis. If it goes on for too long people will drop out or 'Masters out' (only an option in some schools).
Anonymous
I failed comps the first try, but successfully made it through PhD defense later. The culture of our school and program was that you do not defend unless you will pass. If you aren't ready after some time, then they ask you to leave with a Masters.

I think of it like a marriage proposal. You don't do it unless you're sure of the outcome.
Anonymous
My program had a written and oral exam that had to be completed by the second year. Some people were asked to leave with a Masters at that point, or chose to voluntarily depart. No one failed the actual dissertation.
Anonymous
Where I went to school they would never let you defend unless you were going to pass. It was mostly just presenting your dissertation work and then the committee asked questions about it. Sometimes they made critical comments but you would still pass.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just curious. I don’t know if there are hard and fast percentages out there, but for anybody who has been in a PhD program, how many of your colleagues were successful with their dissertation defense? How many or not? If you fail it, are you permitted a second chance to present? Or is it one and done? What happens with the degree status if you don’t pass?


My program had a high fail rate both at our university and compared to similar programs at similar universities. It is also has a high rate of people dropping out. I’m ABD because I dropped out. The same year, a friend transferred (unheard of!) and started over again at another local university. Even with having to retake comps a year later, she was happier. Three of our classmates failed within the next two years. It was a toxic environment.


For your colleagues that failed, did they go back to continue work and present again? You can’t claim a PhD on a résumé or call yourself Dr. with ABD, right?



NO, you cannot "claim a PhD on a resume or call yourself Dr. with an ABD". I'm not clear why this is even a question. You can't claim credentials that you haven't earned. If you're in a field that includes licensing and/or a member of a professional organization with an ethics code, doing so will likely torpedo your career in very wide-reaching ways.


Where I went, ABD had a very specific usage. You had to be still at the institution, be in the program you were studying in and still actively working in the PhD program. If you defend and are not passed, then as long as your institution and your mentor still allow you to stay in the program and try to defend again, you can continue to use the ABD. If you leave the program or institution, then you are no longer ABD.

Like other PPs, the program at the institution I was at (I was not in the PhD program, but was friends with several who were), the mentors were the ones who decided whether you were allowed to defend. If you were not ready to defend or they didn't think you could pass, they didn't schedule a defense for you. A defense was only scheduled when they knew you were prepared and were likely to pass. At that institution, the pass rate was very high. Essentially those that would fail never defended and they either stayed in the program for years trying to research and improve their dissertation or they left the program.
Anonymous
In the programs I’m familiar with (hard sciences) you only defended when you had the blessing of your advisor and it was understood it would be to pass.

There were a few instances of committee members asking candidates to add something to their thesis, BUT that was usually an off shoot of some ego-driven vendetta between the professors at issue, not any actual problem with the student’s work.
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